Importing used campervan from Britain post Brexit

Argo foc yourself

Can anyone tell me the implications of importing a van post Jan 1, 2021.

I know VRT has to be paid but the revenue site states the following


If a vehicle is being imported from Northern Ireland, no import duty will apply but you may be liable to pay:

Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT)
VAT (only in respect of new vehicles).


Does this mean that if I import it via Belfast that no duty will apply?

spaceHopper

If there is a no deal you will probably have to pay, import duty, vat @23%; on cost of can + vat @23% on the duty ( a tax on a tax) and then you pay the VRT. If there is a deal it could still be the same.

Argo foc yourself

spaceHopper wrote: »

If there is a no deal you will probably have to pay, import duty, vat @23% on cost of can + vat @23% on the duty ( a tax on a tax) and then you pay the VRT. If there is a deal it could still be the same.

that is just for new vehicles I think

spaceHopper

Argo foc yourself wrote: »

that is just for new vehicles I think

No if you import a car/van/camper from outside the EU you have to pay duty and VAT and then VRT. I imported a camper from Japan in 2009, still have it.

Argo foc yourself

spaceHopper wrote: »

No if you import a car/van/camper from outside the EU you have to pay duty and VAT and then VRT. I imported a camper from Japan in 2009, still have it.

uuggh. ok thanks for that

Del2005

Argo foc yourself wrote: »

Can anyone tell me the implications of importing a van post Jan 1, 2021.

I know VRT has to be paid but the revenue site states the following


If a vehicle is being imported from Northern Ireland, no import duty will apply but you may be liable to pay:

Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT)
VAT (only in respect of new vehicles).


Does this mean that if I import it via Belfast that no duty will apply?

The only thing agreed so far is that NI remains under EU standards and tarrifs. So our Unionists cousins will have to pay import duty when they bring a vehicle in from Britain. The current stock of 2nd hand vehicles up there won't last long if us Mexican's keep buying UK vehicles duty free.

Ringer82

Hi folks,

Following this thread with interest. I have a deposit paid on a caravan in England. The original plan was to collect it early December but that has now been pushed out to early January. From the little digging and ringing around today (revenue, etc), apparently a 2.7% tarriff will apply when importing. No VRT will apply. However, i am unsure about VAT. Anyone know for sure whether VAT needs to be paid? Its a used van - 2011 model.

PhilipJ

Ringer82 wrote: »

Hi folks,

Following this thread with interest. I have a deposit paid on a caravan in England. The original plan was to collect it early December but that has now been pushed out to early January. From the little digging and ringing around today (revenue, etc), apparently a 2.7% tarriff will apply when importing. No VRT will apply. However, i am unsure about VAT. Anyone know for sure whether VAT needs to be paid? Its a used van - 2011 model.

That's interesting, I have been looking to import one myself and wondering same.
I would imagine there will be some sort of vat implication.

Car99

Ringer82 wrote: »

Hi folks,

Following this thread with interest. I have a deposit paid on a caravan in England. The original plan was to collect it early December but that has now been pushed out to early January. From the little digging and ringing around today (revenue, etc), apparently a 2.7% tarriff will apply when importing. No VRT will apply. However, i am unsure about VAT. Anyone know for sure whether VAT needs to be paid? Its a used van - 2011 model.

How would customs know whether you just bought it or were returning from a holiday ?

CelticRambler

Car99 wrote: »

How would customs know whether you just bought it or were returning from a holiday ?

I would think the number plates would be a bit of a giveaway!

niloc1951

CelticRambler wrote: »

I would think the number plates would be a bit of a giveaway!

Wouldn't it have the number plate of the towing vehicle.

CelticRambler

niloc1951 wrote: »

Wouldn't it have the number plate of the towing vehicle.

Ah ... I didn't see that the thread had taken a detour into caravan purchase.

But do caravans in Ireland not need their own reg as they do here in France (applies to all trailers over 750kg)?

niloc1951

CelticRambler wrote: »

Ah ... I didn't see that the thread had taken a detour into caravan purchase.

But do caravans in Ireland not need their own reg as they do here in France (applies to all trailers over 750kg)?

Simple answer is no.

Car99

CelticRambler wrote: »

Ah ... I didn't see that the thread had taken a detour into caravan purchase.

But do caravans in Ireland not need their own reg as they do here in France (applies to all trailers over 750kg)?

There would be a very strong lobby here against registering any trailer over 750KG.

niloc1951

Car99 wrote: »

There would be a very strong lobby here against registering any trailer over 750KG.

Unfortunately it is a requirement most countries and, more to the point, under EU vehicle roadworthiness testing directives they are supposed to be regularly tested like cars and commercial vehicles are.
But like lots of other stuff The RSA are playing by their own made up rules and ignoring lots EU road safety stuff that should be in place.

Car99

niloc1951 wrote: »

Unfortunately it is a requirement most countries and, more to the point, under EU vehicle roadworthiness testing directives they are supposed to be regularly tested like cars and commercial vehicles are.
But like lots of other stuff The RSA are playing by their own made up rules and ignoring lots EU road safety stuff that should be in place.

The agri sector would be up in arms if this was brought in in Ireland. That and 16 year old provisional licensed drivers driving massive tractors and low loaders is ignored by the RSA / gov. If an adult with a full licence needs an additional test and category on their licence to be road legal why doent a 16 year on a provisional need a driving test of any type to take a tractor and trailer on the road? Because the agri lobby is so strong? Anyways way off topic sry.

They just make it up as they go. No NCTs on bikes (yet)
30yo machines get categorised with new as a bi-annual test.

I think VRT is in contravention of EU and the upshot is nobody can manufacture a vehicle in the country because the manufacturer would have to pay the VRT.

Not that I'd buy a vehicle built by the Irish, too much sher it'll be grand attitude.

spaceHopper

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

30yo machines get categorised with new as a bi-annual test.

Mine will be 30 in January, the last test they found the front wheel bearing needed adjustment and it's worn the tyre, the one before my back break needed work, haven't been using the van enough. So a 1 year test is good two year is well a risk

I failed myself because the suspension was about to take a trip through the floor. She's 26.
I'll buff it out when the weather improves.

Replaced a wheel bearing, king pins and found a broken leaf spring before I got the air hammer out, and the rims were off a Sprinter and the tracking was way off after a tyre fitter ruined the unoptanium stock rims.

Del2005

Car99 wrote: »

The agri sector would be up in arms if this was brought in in Ireland. That and 16 year old provisional licensed drivers driving massive tractors and low loaders is ignored by the RSA / gov. If an adult with a full licence needs an additional test and category on their licence to be road legal why doent a 16 year on a provisional need a driving test of any type to take a tractor and trailer on the road? Because the agri lobby is so strong? Anyways way off topic sry.

We have a standardised EU licence now so 16 year olds in all EU countries can drive works vehicles.

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

I think VRT is in contravention of EU and the upshot is nobody can manufacture a vehicle in the country because the manufacturer would have to pay the VRT.

Not that I'd buy a vehicle built by the Irish, too much sher it'll be grand attitude.

VRT is a legal tax and not in contravention of any EU laws. It's higher in some countries, Holland, and less in others, UK. The manufacturer doesn't pay the Vehicle Registration Tax the owner does.

The reason why we don't have any car manufactures is because we are too small a market, even Australia has lost it's car manufacturing, and exporting would be expensive. We did have VW and Ford assembly lines.

CJhaughey

Del2005 wrote: »

We have a standardised EU licence now so 16 year olds in all EU countries can drive works vehicles.



VRT is a legal tax and not in contravention of any EU laws. It's higher in some countries, Holland, and less in others, UK. The manufacturer doesn't pay the Vehicle Registration Tax the owner does.

The reason why we don't have any car manufactures is because we are too small a market, even Australia has lost it's car manufacturing, and exporting would be expensive. We did have VW and Ford assembly lines.

Even the UK is losing its car manufacturing, not from market size but from bad decisions.

Glen Immal

Thread drift I know...I purchased a Caravan in the UK and Just fitted the towing vehicle plate and drove home. Legally just a trailer..

Car99

Del2005 wrote: »

We have a standardised EU licence now so 16 year olds in all EU countries can drive works vehicles.

Not for Agri vehicles and works vehicles . There are national categories for tractors, large motorcycles, motorised wheel boats, motor tricycles EU member states. Cat W here. Cat F in the UK only allows you drive a tractor below a certain width. National categories mean they are not harmonised and only valid within the issuing country.

niloc1951

Del2005 wrote: »

VRT is a legal tax and not in contravention of any EU laws. It's higher in some countries, Holland, and less in others

What's 'illegal' or to be more correct against all recognised taxation conventions is the way VRT is assessed. It's assessed on a notional value that already, includes the tax, so it's a tax on itself, a double taxation.
Another thing is that it's not quantifiable before the purchase contract is completed, imagine not knowing the stamp duty liability on a house before signing the purchase contract or not knowing the VAT element in the price of a washing machine before contracting to buy one.

killalanerr

Yes not knowing the full cost of your purchase until weeks after you have imported your van goes against so many laws I'm sure it puts a lot of people off ,

Did I read somewhere that this was mentioned in a court-case that this was indeed discrimination ?

niloc1951

killalanerr wrote: »

Yes not knowing the full cost of your purchase until weeks after you have imported your van goes against so many laws I'm sure it puts a lot of people off,
/QUOTE]

That's probably exactly what one of the effects which were wanted when the system was devised, to put people off doing personal imports.

colm_mcm

killalanerr wrote: »

Yes not knowing the full cost of your purchase until weeks after you have imported your van goes against so many laws I'm sure it puts a lot of people off ,

Did I read somewhere that this was mentioned in a court-case that this was indeed discrimination ?

Which laws does it go against?

killalanerr

This one for a start , it looks like the ruling was of little use to the appealing party in this case but it does open a line of further appeal going forward if a group were inclined to bring a case particularly for motorhomes ,

The Court of Appeal (CoA) has found Revenue acted unlawfully in failing to provide a used car importer with details of how the open market selling price for used vehicles was determined for the purpose of calculating Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT).

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40077431.html

colm_mcm

That’s a red herring to be fair. In the case of car valuations and depreciation formulas, there is a pretty comprehensive document explaining how it works, as well as an online calculator.
Of course 25 years ago it may not have been as transparent - but you can’t really use that case as an example of law breaking today.(or 25 years ago)

Now, in the case of motorhomes there is a lack of consistency in valuations, they are difficult to value though.

killalanerr

colm_mcm wrote: »

Now, in the case of motorhomes there is a lack of consistency in valuations, they are difficult to value though.

They could start by accepting the receipt of purchase as a the true valuation instead of treating us as some sort of rouge traders , as we know there is no online calculator for MHs.

Its unfair to call a ruling by the CoA a red herring the court was quite clear in calling the practice unlawful, very little if anything has changed for someone importing a motorhome, Revenue are unlikely to change anything unless they were successfully challenged .

All the the above is interesting to some of us but not very useful to the OP sorry for the drift !

Del2005

killalanerr wrote: »

They could start by accepting the receipt of purchase as a the true valuation instead of treating us as some sort of rouge traders , as we know there is no online calculator for MHs.

Its unfair to call a ruling by the CoA a red herring the court was quite clear in calling the practice unlawful, very little if anything has changed for someone importing a motorhome, Revenue are unlikely to change anything unless they were successfully challenged .

All the the above is interesting to some of us but not very useful to the OP sorry for the drift !

It's very easy to get two invoices or make a fake one.

I've been looking for a camper for a while now and the asking prices have massive price ranges for similar aged vans. So if the sellers can't even agree how much a camper is worth how can revenue without looking at it? You could have a 20 year old van full of top spec equipment and another with just the basics, should both pay the same level of VRT?

niloc1951

The simple point is.
The VRT should be calculated on the purchase price just like ALL other taxes and duties are.
The purchase price is the price on the receipt/invoice issued by the seller.
To mitigate against a fraudulent artificially low price being shown let there be a severe penalty if caught out, just like there is for other forms of tax evasion.

Excuse the pun, but the particular wheel has already been invented long ago.

IMHO the way VRT is administered is a design of the trade to discourage personal imports, after all, why wouldn't they want their patch protected.

Off-Topic I know, but our vehicle registration number system is a similar concoction of the trade to promote 'number plate snobbery' and sales. Wouldn't it be great to have a system like some other European countries where the reg. no. is random mix numbers and letters which give no indication of the place or year of registration.
Spain, for example, consists of four numbers followed by three letters (eg. 1234 ABC)

killalanerr

Del2005 you seem to be in agreement with revenue that we are not to be trusted Im sure it would be easy enough to manipulate the current system (what ever that is) with a couple of well placed adds on a popular online market site with a deflated price of the model you were about to present .

In the matter of law the Revenue should make it clear the "methodology used by it to determine the market selling price" . this should be available to the likes of yourself before you commit

sher it'll be grand!

colm_mcm

killalanerr wrote: »

They could start by accepting the receipt of purchase as a the true valuation instead of treating us as some sort of rouge traders , as we know there is no online calculator for MHs.

We both know that this would be open to huge abuse

killalanerr wrote: »

Its unfair to call a ruling by the CoA a red herring the court was quite clear in calling the practice unlawful,

This example is a red herring, because it concerns something from 25 years ago, and centres around difficulty a dealer had in figuring out how VRT was calculated back then. It has nothing to do with the legality of VRT, or whatever practice you say is unlawful, I still can’t see which laws were being broken in that case.

killalanerr wrote: »

very little if anything has changed for someone importing a motorhome, Revenue are unlikely to change anything unless they were successfully challenged .

All the the above is interesting to some of us but not very useful to the OP sorry for the drift !

niloc1951

colm_mcm wrote: »

............................... I still can’t see which laws were being broken in that case.

I agree with your point, there is no 'law' being broken.
However, the way VRT is operated is contrary to all the norms of taxation and is possible against our human rights to know the tax liability resulting from a transaction before entering into such.
Show me one other example of a tax which cannot be ascertained once the cost of a purchase is known.
Would you buy a house if the stamp duty was an unknown variable? or a would you import a case of wine if the excise duty was an unknown variable?

colm_mcm

Property tax?
Capital gains tax?

niloc1951

colm_mcm wrote: »

Property tax?
Capital gains tax?

Both those taxes are easily quantifiable to the liable person via a transparent formula.
Property tax is assessed on the value of a property based on actual recorded sales prices (which does not include the property tax) for similar properties which are in the public domain, not a notional value based on an opaque calculation.
Likewise, Capital Gains tax is calculated on the actual increase in the capital value of an asset, ie the difference between the price paid at the time of purchase and price received at the time of sale.

Neither of the two examples you mentioned includes the tax liability in the total sum liable for the tax. However, VRT liability is calculated on a VRT included value

Speaking of doing things the right way instead of the Irish way. Is everyone here still rollin' on Summer tyres in this icey snowy weather?

CJhaughey

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Speaking of doing things the right way instead of the Irish way. Is everyone here still rollin' on Summer tyres in this icey snowy weather?

No one is rolling anywhere these days, lockdown don't you know?

Aye. Well I broke traction on my all season boots this morning but no bother I can steer with an accelerator. Probably why it came to mind.

CelticRambler

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Speaking of doing things the right way instead of the Irish way. Is everyone here still rollin' on Summer tyres in this icey snowy weather?

Nope. Put my winter tyres on a month ago! :cool: Thinking of taking them for a drive in the snow this week ... mainly because the local supermarket is doing a promotion on double mattresses, and that size of thing is easier to transport in the camper than the car! :pac:

Turns out mud & snow are not so good on ice.
At least the rubber doesn't turn hard and slick like a Summer tyre.

Sher it'll be grand...just drive slow eh!...
Engine braking ftw.

daesal

importing a camper anyone?

autumnalcore

Nope holding out for the prices to plummet after Covid shenannigans end and all the new staycation camper owners admit that they hate camping 😃

Market is already filling up with lockdown puppies and boats

Shaileen

Hi really interested in this: if you go to UK via ferry passage and bring back caravan, do you not just look like you are returning from a holiday? Do they question every caravan passenger as to the ownership/purchase of their caravan?

TheWonderLlama

n1st

Silly questions;

Do you have to register a caravan?

if not then how does the revenue know that you have imported a caravan?

oinkely

No caravan registration in Ireland.

How do the revenue know - I guess they don't?

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039515#Comment_119039515

We were about to go to the England to pick up a pegasus last August, it just happened we found same one in Limavaddy and went there, but I was willing to "chance it" it would be difficult to prove either way.

Perhaps they may look for your ticket out? Ie, did you pay for caravan outward? That's one I thought of and was going to book bothways with caravan.

nd2no

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/115636689#Comment_115636689

Hi, I was looking at importing a camper from Japan & looking for some guidance. Can you advise how you went about this?