Why do people struggle to lose body fat?

Omega28

I probably should be more specific but this is more of a problem most men I've spoken to in the gym.

Like myself, they seem to struggle trying to lose BF around the chest and lower abdomen/back region. Is it from pure lack of discipline with your nutrition?

Personally, I've been struggling a long time to lose the fat around these areas and I exercise daily and would relatively healthy but still the fat around those areas never go away.

bladespin

Omega28 wrote: »

I probably should be more specific but this is more of a problem most men I've spoken to in the gym.

Like myself, they seem to struggle trying to lose BF around the chest and lower abdomen/back region. Is it from pure lack of discipline with your nutrition?

Personally, I've been struggling a long time to lose the fat around these areas and I exercise daily and would relatively healthy but still the fat around those areas never go away.

You've answered your own question there - nutrition, to loose fat you need to be in a calorie deficit, doesn't matter too much how 'healthy' you eat etc just as long as you're in deficit, there are other, different benefits to healthy eating but low bodyfat is not one of them.

Cill94

Food tastes real good, and most people naturally care more about that than being lean.

D13exile

While I've exercised regularly for years (running/cycling 4-5 times a week followed by a half hour of weights), I just couldn't get my weight below 96kgs. I'm 5'10, (but with a 44 inch chest and muscular) but at that weight, I was "obese" according to the catch all BMI measurement, even though I could cycle 100kms in 3 and a half hours. However this year, with working from home due to Covid, I could watch what I eat more closely (no more chips and junk in the staff canteen and cakes/biscuits/chocolate at night), I started on the intermittent fasting regimen for 4 months from April this year (eat my meals from 4pm to 8pm only and all home cooked natural and unprocessed food) and my weight fell to 88kgs. I've now moved to OMAD which is one meal a day, albeit eating a large plate of salad at 5pm, followed by steak/salmon/eggs with a large plate of vegetables at 5.30pm and a "treat" of either a plate of fruit or nuts at 6pm. My weight has now dropped to 84kgs. I feel so much better, alert and full of energy than I did when eating crap food. The added bonus is that now that I'm 12kgs lighter, my speed on the bike has increased to an average of 35kph as I'm not lugging round the equivalent of 12 bags of sugar with me anymore.

So exercise as much as you want but if you're eating a crap diet, you will struggle to shift the excess weight. I'd recommend you try intermittent fasting for a start, i.e. fast for 16 hours and eat your meals in an 8 hour window. It's not that hard as you sleep for 7-8 hours a night anyway and so all you have to do is skip breakfast and then eat lunch and dinner between midday and 8pm. The benefit of this is not only giving your digestive system time to "rest" between eating, but it will lower insulin resistance which will stop you craving sugary foods and also increase the hormone Leptin which stops you feeling hungry. I go 23 hours a day without eating (but I drink a lot of water) and it doesn't bother me at all. I can exercise and still feel full of energy as my metabolism has shifted from burning glucose to burning fat which is a more sustainable fuel source for the body (plus it helps shift those stubborn kilos).

And for the piece de resistance, once a month I do a 3 day water only fast to clean out my system of toxins. Trust me, you'd be shocked at the crap (excuse the pun) that your body ejects on a water fast even if your diet is good. Once I keep active, I don't miss food at all for the 3 days. The downside is insomnia for some strange reason but the upside is that when you start eating again after the three days, simple foods like tomatoes and cucumber taste delicious!

I believe in each to their own and I'm not the type to push faddy diets on anyone but intermittent fasting and OMAD has helped me shift weight that years of exercising couldn't. The healthier diet of fresh and unprocessed food has made me feel years younger.

Omega28

I know myself to lose weight you need to decrease calorie intake.

My other question is how do I combat the hunger and urges to eat?

Some context here, I'm 99kg at 185cm, which puts me with a BMI of Obese/Over weight. I'd consider myself an active male who strenght trains and does cardio while keeping active outside the gym. I was cycling up to 650km a week during the summer months.

I eat approx 4,500-6,000 calories a day. I know I'll never reach my aesthetic goals while eating that much food, regardless of food quality. But I'm constantly hungry and don't know how I could manage to eat in a deficit. The hunger would be too much for me.

Cill94

Omega28 wrote: »

I know myself to lose weight you need to decrease calorie intake.

My other question is how do I combat the hunger and urges to eat?

Some context here, I'm 99kg at 185cm. I'd consider myself an active male who strenght trains and does cardio while keeping active outside the gym. I was cycling up to 650km a week during the summer months.

I eat approx 4,500-6,000 calories a day. I know I'll never reach my aesthetic goals while eating that much food, regardless of food quality. But I'm constantly hungry and don't know how I could manage to eat in a deficit. The hunger would be too much for me.

There are methods of eating that will keep you full without going over your calories. Foods that are high in protein or fibre tend to be very filling while being relatively low calorie. Fruit, veg, meat, fish, beans, potatoes, etc.

Cravings are kind of separate to hunger and are fairly individual. For example, I can easily avoid savoury things like burgers, crisps, takeaways, etc - but I really struggle to moderate chocolate. So I just don't buy any in my grocery shopping. This means it's never an option for me to eat it when I'm at home and get a craving. I'll buy the odd bar in a shop, which means I can enjoy it, but I don't have enough to binge.

So you need to be realistic about where you struggle and what strategies you could employ to address it.

bladespin

Omega28 wrote: »

The hunger would be too much for me.

Learn to enjoy it, if you feel hungry you're doing something towards your goal.
That said it's very possible to eat low calorie and feel full, it just depends on what you're eating.

I've always trained (definately not cardio though), after the kids came along my weight gradually went up from about 12st to nearly 15.5st, I'm 5'8 so that's a lot to lug around, I tried all sorts of diets etc but with limited success, and usually put it back on. I read the stickies here about tracking etc and made a scientific experiment out of it, combining HIIT, proper nutrition, calorie deficit etc really tried to do it right, went from 15st to under 12st in a year, started a more bodybuilding type approach and put some back on but it's in the right places, the lowest I got was 13%bf which might not be instagram stuff but was a miracle for me, stick with it and learn to enjoy the process.

turbot

Omega28 wrote: »

I probably should be more specific but this is more of a problem most men I've spoken to in the gym.

Like myself, they seem to struggle trying to lose BF around the chest and lower abdomen/back region. Is it from pure lack of discipline with your nutrition?

Personally, I've been struggling a long time to lose the fat around these areas and I exercise daily and would relatively healthy but still the fat around those areas never go away.

Most people struggle to lose weight because:

(1) Modern lifestyles are inactive
(2) Modern "food" is addictive-ish and full of sugar / carbs and less nutrients ( so our body has to input more to get specific nutrients )
(3) Modern "food and environments" feature high levels of toxins, and if we face too many toxins in circulation, we can't excrete them so bind them to fat cells that build up. This creates a catch 22 of sorts, because unless you detox as you lose weight, you crave crap to bind the toxins.
(4) Most people don't know how to eat or train, even though in their minds, they feel they could just train harder or just be more focused - a kind of elusive self delusion.
(5) In our social culture, social participation requires doing stuff that inhibits weight loss
(6) We often eat to calm down or distract ourselves or avoid various kinds of pain we feel and don't wish to face

So you can deal with this by:
(a) Getting really organised about the food you eat; buying high quality fresh foods at organic markets and prepping it in advance. Eat high quality food to schedule before you're hungry.
(b) Learning detox approaches (like different binders / use saunas / esp niacin exercise sauna detox) and using these as you train.
(c) Switching to "nutritional keto" - i.e. keto based on high quality low carb veg & fats
(d) Thinking through in advance specific, not "intuitive" plans on how to behave in social situations where there is pressure to be normal. E.g. In a bar, ask for sparkling water vs coke.
(e) Get a good personal trainer so you do higher intensity HIIT
(f) Master something like HeartMath so if you're stressed, you can deal with it through breathing vs munching food
(g) Create some kind of rhythm to listen to yourself and process whatever you feel a bit more... face yourself versus escaping from your experience into stimulation. Many people go to therapy (if you can find a good therapist) but much easier is to simply journal more

If you compare these two lists - you'll find its the "unmanaged subtle pain" and "bad decision coping mechanisms" that are rationalised as normal-ish behaviours that trap people.

Macy0161

Omega28 wrote: »

I know myself to lose weight you need to decrease calorie intake.

My other question is how do I combat the hunger and urges to eat?

Intermittent fasting is just a method of being in calorie deficit. There's no proven addition benefits to that method (there's some interesting research of "suggested" benefits, but not peer reviewed science, and not related to losing weight).

Any change in diet, whether to be in deficit or in maintenance, has to be sustainable for you.

I tried IF, for the other potential benefits, but I got too hangry and it wasn't sustainable for me. What worked for me was working out my TDEE, working out my deficit, and tracking calories.

Basically, it doesn't matter how you achieve a deficit.

If you're on social media Ben Carpenter dissects the science from the myths well (in as not as heavy a form as Danny Lennon/ Sigma Nutrition), The Fitness Chef is good for easy calorie saving swaps, and comparing options. Obviously, those come with the bias of what worked for me, and science!

Omega28

Omega28 wrote: »

......... I'm 99kg at 185cm, which puts me with a BMI of Obese/Over weight. I'd consider myself an active male who strenght trains and does cardio while keeping active outside the gym. I was cycling up to 650km a week during the summer months.

I eat approx 4,500-6,000 calories a day..................

To lose bodyfat you'd need to be eating under 3000 kcals/day.
You're carrying at least 10kg of fat ....... I say that as someone who was 105kg a few years ago and thought I was big as I used to lift weights etc.

Omega28 wrote: »

........My other question is how do I combat the hunger and urges to eat .................

Eat lots of nutrient dense grub that isn't high in calories.......... bulk up meals with veg.

D13exile

Lots of good advice above but I'd go further and say that your body (like many in the western world) is addicted to sugar and you need to wean yourself off sweets, chocolate, and processed foods (that are laced with sugar and salt). Trust me, I was the type to eat a large bar of chocolate in front of the tv at night (and most nights at that!) and I was kidding myself by thinking "ah sure, I'll run or cycle it off tomorrow". I made a conscious decision to start buying only fresh food and meat and I stopped buying food in packaging. I now enjoy preparing my meals (even if it takes a lot longer than sticking processed food from a box (like chicken kiev or "Donegal Catch" in an oven for half an hour or the microwave) and the end results are amazing as in freshly prepared food tastes so much better. Plus I don't have to worry about what "additives" have been put in unlike processed foods.

As for your hunger cravings, that is down to insulin resistance that has built up in your body from an overdose of sugar. Your cells are resistant to insulin (which regulates blood sugar) and its fooling you into thinking you're constantly hungry. Weaning yourself off sugars and carbs in general will rectify this. As strange as it seems (because we are fooled by the propaganda of the food and diet industries!!), healthy fats and protein should be your main fuel sources. Food like fresh salmon, avocado, nuts etc will more than satisfy your hunger cravings while providing more beneficial and sustainable fuel for your body. As fat takes longer to synthesize by your body, your energy levels will remain constant unlike the peaks and troughs you get when you use glucose for a fuel source. I can cycle 100kms in a fasted state as I'm burning my body fat for fuel whereas the "old me" used to have to bring bananas and energy gels (concentrated sugar!) to keep myself constantly fueled on cycles as my energy levels dipped regularly.

Do some research on intermittent fasting and OMAD. I don't "count calories" and I generally eat what I want (albeit good wholesome fresh food), i.e. as much vegetables as I want and a good portion of fish and meat for protein. I don't feel hungry even though I fast for 23 hours a day and I've lost 12kgs in 8 months, which I'm not putting back on. I was a binge eater on chocolate and always snacking on biscuits and cakes between meals but I managed to wean myself off the high carb/sugar diet by taking things slowly. Don't try and change things completely overnight as that would be a recipe for failure:
- cut out breakfast and only eat between midday and 8pm.
- buy fresh food only
- load up on vegetables in a salad at lunchtime and dinner and they'll fill you up
- most times you feel "hungry", you're actually thirsty. Try drinking water instead of reaching for food.
- If you feel a food craving coming on, go for a walk or do something physical as exercise dampens appetite.

Try it for a month and I'll bet you lose weight and don't feel constantly hungry all the time.

Dtp1979

Planks

Macy0161

Sugar is not addictive - no one is raiding the press to mill into the bag of demerara left over from last years ham. Foods high in sugar taste nice, so people want to eat them.

Macy0161

Macy0161 wrote: »

Sugar is not addictive - no one is raiding the press to mill into the bag of demerara left over from last years ham.

Speak for yourself
Sob

Macy0161

Just mainlining the plain old white granulated here.

partyguinness

Back in February my running coach told me that at 12% BF ideally I needed to be down to 6%.

At 11stone 6 I thought this would be a tough task but I said "Sure with the massive increase in milage it will just fall of."

After 2 months scales was not budging. Had a good long look at my diet and while by most people's standards it is decent but probably a 5/10 for running.

I was eating too many carbs. I gradually went keto and took everything back to basics on the marcos (protein, carbs and healthy fats). Bought a home test kit so I could measure ketones. Bought MCT powder, Omega 3 oil, Vit D. as level was non existant.

I won't bore you with all the gory details but the weight and fat stated to immediately drop off. I kinda enjoyed the new challenge.

The Ladybook version: by eating carbs your body uses carbs. Excess carbs turn to fat. Basically the carbs mean the body never gets to touch the fat reserves so never budges. Ditch the carbs and the body starts using fat as a fuel.

Now, I must stress that I am not here advocating any sort of diet or fad. Just telling you what I did.

I am now a full stone lighter and body fat at 6%- you should see my abs and veins. I did intergrate the carbs back in when my training ramped up- had to. But I am more clued in now about it. Keep an eye on sugar, refined carbs, white flour. Just keep the food basic.

Oh yeah...for the sweet tooth- 90-100% dark chocolate.

Keano

partyguinness wrote: »

Back in February my running coach told me that at 12% BF ideally I needed to be down to 6%.

At 11stone 6 I thought this would be a tough task but I said "Sure with the massive increase in milage it will just fall of."

After 2 months scales was not budging. Had a good long look at my diet and while by most people's standards it is decent but probably a 5/10 for running.

I was eating too many carbs. I gradually went keto and took everything back to basics on the marcos (protein, carbs and healthy fats). Bought a home test kit so I could measure ketones. Bought MCT powder, Omega 3 oil, Vit D. as level was non existant.

I won't bore you with all the gory details but the weight and fat stated to immediately drop off. I kinda enjoyed the new challenge.

The Ladybook version: by eating carbs your body uses carbs. Excess carbs turn to fat. Basically the carbs mean the body never gets to touch the fat reserves so never budges. Ditch the carbs and the body starts using fat as a fuel.

Now, I must stress that I am not here advocating any sort of diet or fad. Just telling you what I did.

I am now a full stone lighter and body fat at 6%- you should see my abs and veins. I did intergrate the carbs back in when my training ramped up- had to. But I am more clued in now about it. Keep an eye on sugar, refined carbs, white flour. Just keep the food basic.

Oh yeah...for the sweet tooth- 90-100% dark chocolate.

Rather than saying you were eating too many carbs perhaps it was just too many calories?

partyguinness

Keano wrote: »

Rather than saying you were eating too many carbs perhaps it was just too many calories?

Well yes. Eating too many calories in the form of carbs. That's ultimately what it comes down to.

I was still eating too many carbs which is a common problem I observe with crash dieters and rebalanced my macros.

Keano

Keano wrote: »

Rather than saying you were eating too many carbs perhaps it was just too many calories?

Indeed

partyguinness wrote: »

.........Excess carbs turn to fat.........

Excess calories turns to fat

partyguinness

Augeo wrote: »

Indeed



Excess calories turns to fat

Yes. Jesus what is this...an exam...


Rather than saying excess calories (which is true I hasten to add) part of the solution is identifying where the excess calories originate. It is not unreasonable to say that most people eat excess calories from carbs rather than fats and protein. That is why I specifically focused on carbs.

partyguinness

partyguinness wrote: »

..........It is not unreasonable to say that most people eat excess calories from carbs rather than fats and protein. That is why I specifically focused on carbs.

The OP is 99kg and eats approx 4,500-6,000 calories a day ........... doing lots of cycling but I'd be fairly sure he's eating excess everything if his aim is to lose fat. Unless doing a bit of hill work cycling can be a bit of a head fnck...... you see loads of fairly large folk cruising away seemingly at their leisure on the level roads. Probably overfueled for the exertion really.

For folk like the OP if they are exercising plenty and their weight isn't increasing then to lose it isn't that difficult. Literally he just needs to cut calories and fill up on leafy veg, carrots etc and drink loads of water when he gets a desire to eat.

It's folk who just get bigger and bigger and bigger have the huge challenge IMO as even exercising is a task that seems impossible.

partyguinness

Augeo wrote: »

The OP is 99kg and eats approx 4,500-6,000 calories a day ........... doing lots of cycling but I'd be fairly sure he's eating excess everything if his aim is to lose fat. Unless doing a bit of hill work cycling can be a bit of a head fnck...... you see loads of fairly large folk cruising away seemingly at their leisure on the level roads. Probably overfueled for the exertion really.

Yes. People do tend to over estimate their calorie burn/need when exercising and then use it to justify more bad habits.

I see it everyday. Let's say you run a 10km. That is about 100 cal per mile which is about 600cal give or take. Now, you will see the same runner go straight in Costa and reward themselves with a nice calorie ladden coffee with sugar, a side biscuit and slice of cake. The cake alone will be 500-600 calories so lets say that's 800-900 calories right there. So there is a net caloire gain.

and then they can't figure out why they are not losing weight and even gaining weight.

Unfortunately it does not take much to get to 1500-2000 calories. Even just two slices of toast and butter in the morning is 200 cal.

Augeo wrote: »

For folk like the OP if they are exercising plenty and their weight isn't increasing then to lose it isn't that difficult. Literally he just needs to cut calories and fill up on leafy veg, carrots etc and drink loads of water when he gets a desire to eat.

That is where I was at and just revamped entire diet and stuck to it. Did it gradually over 2 months. Gradually replaced my foods with substitutes rather than going cold turkey- no good.

4500-6000 calories is a huge amount. You would need to work on a building site to justify that. I found increasing protein worked great for hunger pangs- a few teaspoons as peanut butter is great, full fat Greek yogurt.

I do not subscribe to the "low fat/no fat" scam out there.

Augeo wrote: »

It's folk who just get bigger and bigger and bigger have the huge challenge IMO as even exercising is a task that seems impossible.

Even at 12% I was classed as "Acceptable" for the normal population but that was no good if I wanted to meet my marathon goals.

There is no getting away from it. You must lose the excess weight to get better at your sport.

It does not have to be hard or torture. Just research and find suitable foods you like and gradually introduce them in.

LasersGoPewPew

Unfortunately people fail to lose fat for a multitude of reasons as mentioned above. It's can be attributed to a lack of discipline, poor routine, high carb/sugar intake, overestimating calories, psychotropic medication. It can take a lot of trial and error before people find what works for them. I tried and failed to lose fat for over 8 years during which time I followed mainstream advice of eating many small meals per day but it made me miserable and constantly hungry, so I ended up yoyo dieting. In the end I found intermittent fasting, aka skipping breakfast. It was really tough for the first few days but it got easier after day 4. To me it was like a revelation. I didn't have crazy cravings or hunger pains anymore. I have more energy than before, and I lost a ton of fat. My skin improved, focus improved because I had no sugar crashes.

In the mornings I brush my teeth and use mouthwash and soon as I get out of bed( this step is important to kill my hunger), then I have coffee with full fat milk. Sometimes I might have lunch at 1pm, sometimes I skip lunch if I don't feel hungry and eat a huge dinner at 4 or 5pm and that's it until the next day. My spare tyre is completely flat now, double chin is now a single chin. I look better in nicely fitted clothes for the first time in my life and my confidence is at a level I only dreamed of achieving. I also drink lots of water because dehydration leads to hunger and feeling crap.

TLDR: Fasting worked for me

partyguinness

Another 'trick'- eat from a small bowl. I cannot remember the last time I had a meal from a large dinner plate.

partyguinness

LasersGoPewPew wrote: »

then I have coffee with full fat milk. Sometimes I might have lunch at 1pm, sometimes I skip lunch if I don't feel hungry and eat a huge dinner at 4 or 5pm and that's it until the next day.

Something you might find helpful with your morning coffee. I don't drink dairy milk personally but I put MCT powder into my black coffee every morning (which is essentially an Americano as I top up an espresso with hot water).


Kills any hunger pangs until lunch time so no snacking.

Macy0161

I'd say plenty of people blow a deficit eating handfuls of calorie dense healthy foods like nuts and seeds tbh.

There's enough faux "science" on this thread already, so I'm just going to say what worked for me is gradual sustainable changes, and it was (and often remains) about portion control rather than excluding any food group. For me, that just lead to cravings and binges. I like beer, so I accepted that it would impact on my rate of loss, as to exclude it wouldn't have worked. Same with bread. Same with chocolate and crisps. But especially beer.

Seve OB

D13exile wrote: »

While I've exercised regularly for years (running/cycling 4-5 times a week followed by a half hour of weights), I just couldn't get my weight below 96kgs. I'm 5'10, (but with a 44 inch chest and muscular) but at that weight, I was "obese" according to the catch all BMI measurement, even though I could cycle 100kms in 3 and a half hours. However this year, with working from home due to Covid, I could watch what I eat more closely (no more chips and junk in the staff canteen and cakes/biscuits/chocolate at night), I started on the intermittent fasting regimen for 4 months from April this year (eat my meals from 4pm to 8pm only and all home cooked natural and unprocessed food) and my weight fell to 88kgs. I've now moved to OMAD which is one meal a day, albeit eating a large plate of salad at 5pm, followed by steak/salmon/eggs with a large plate of vegetables at 5.30pm and a "treat" of either a plate of fruit or nuts at 6pm. My weight has now dropped to 84kgs. I feel so much better, alert and full of energy than I did when eating crap food. The added bonus is that now that I'm 12kgs lighter, my speed on the bike has increased to an average of 35kph as I'm not lugging round the equivalent of 12 bags of sugar with me anymore.

So exercise as much as you want but if you're eating a crap diet, you will struggle to shift the excess weight. I'd recommend you try intermittent fasting for a start, i.e. fast for 16 hours and eat your meals in an 8 hour window. It's not that hard as you sleep for 7-8 hours a night anyway and so all you have to do is skip breakfast and then eat lunch and dinner between midday and 8pm. The benefit of this is not only giving your digestive system time to "rest" between eating, but it will lower insulin resistance which will stop you craving sugary foods and also increase the hormone Leptin which stops you feeling hungry. I go 23 hours a day without eating (but I drink a lot of water) and it doesn't bother me at all. I can exercise and still feel full of energy as my metabolism has shifted from burning glucose to burning fat which is a more sustainable fuel source for the body (plus it helps shift those stubborn kilos).

And for the piece de resistance, once a month I do a 3 day water only fast to clean out my system of toxins. Trust me, you'd be shocked at the crap (excuse the pun) that your body ejects on a water fast even if your diet is good. Once I keep active, I don't miss food at all for the 3 days. The downside is insomnia for some strange reason but the upside is that when you start eating again after the three days, simple foods like tomatoes and cucumber taste delicious!

I believe in each to their own and I'm not the type to push faddy diets on anyone but intermittent fasting and OMAD has helped me shift weight that years of exercising couldn't. The healthier diet of fresh and unprocessed food has made me feel years younger.

Fair play on loosing the weight, but there is no way in the world that this is a healthy way to live

partyguinness

Macy0161 wrote: »

I'd say plenty of people blow a deficit eating handfuls of calorie dense healthy foods like nuts and seeds tbh.

There's enough faux "science" on this thread already, so I'm just going to say what worked for me is gradual sustainable changes, and it was (and often remains) about portion control rather than excluding any food group. For me, that just lead to cravings and binges. I like beer, so I accepted that it would impact on my rate of loss, as to exclude it wouldn't have worked. Same with bread. Same with chocolate and crisps. But especially beer.

There is nobody here claiming to peddle science just examples of what worked just the same as your post.

Macy0161

partyguinness wrote: »

I do not subscribe to the "low fat/no fat" scam out there.

Scam? There's a bit of a myth that all low fat and zero fat is high in sugar. Like everything, it depends on product and even brand. My experience of natural greek yogurts is there's very little in the sugar content.

I think you have to check labels, but I find "No added sugar" more of a con job more often, and then all the "protein" labels that have appeared. In a lot of cases not much difference from the standard product.

shootermacg

I'm currently losing 2lbs a week, it's simple to do if somewhat difficult.

My day consists of:

weekdays:

---

1 black coffee in the morning.
work
10K run at 12:30
work
8 or 10K run at 17:00
Dinner
TV / PC
Bed

Saturday

---

1 10K run + Try to keep eating in check
Bottle of vino at 8 + try to keep eating in check

Sunday

---

Rest day + loosen up on the eating restrictions.

Keeping track (Ignore the drastic weight loss during a single week, it's mostly fluid I think) and I don't count Saturday:

day run 1 run 2

---

[16/11/2020]

---

monday 13st 12lbs
wednesday 13st 5lbs
thursday 13st 6lbs 13st 4lbs
friday 13st 5lbs 13st 3lbs

---

[23/11/2020] 9.7km/h

---

mon (12K)13st 6lbs (6km)13st 5lbs
tue (10K)13st 5lbs (6km)13st 3lbs
wed (10K)13st 6lbs (6km)13st 4lbs <--ate a lot of cakes night before and 2 in the morning
thur (10K)13st 4lbs (8km)13st 2lbs
fri (10K)13st 3lbs (8km)13st 1lbs <--chinese snacknox + S&P chicken night before

---

[30/11/2020] 9.8km/h

---

mon (10K)13st 4lbs (8km)13st 2lbs
tue (10K)13st 2lbs (8km)13st 0lbs
wed ( 6K)13st 2lbs <--busy day couldn't get much running in.
thur (10K)13st 3lbs (10K)13st 1lbs
fri (10K)13st 1lbs (8km)12st 13lbs

---

[07/12/2020] 9.9km/h

---

mon (10K)13st 2lbs (10K)13st 0lbs
tue (10K)12st 13lbs (8km)12st 11lbs
wed (10K)12st 12lbs (8km)12st 10lbs
thur (10K)12st 10lbs (8km)12st 8lbs
fri (10K)12st 9lbs (6km)12st 8lbs

---

[14/12/2020] 10km/h

---

mon (10K)13st 0lbs (8km)12st 13lbs
tue (10K)12st 13lbs (8km)12st 12lbs
wed (10K)12st 11lbs
thur
fri

---

lapua20grain

I started counting my calorific intake at the start of June weighed myself was at 133 kg, I have gone from 4000 calories a day to averaging 1600-1700 a day, lost 33kg up to yesterday all through a calorific deficit very little movement as my knees are fecked. I have eaten the foods I was eating before just smaller portions and as someone said earlier in the thread by bulking meals with low calorie foods (veg etc.) its nonsense to say that you cut out carbs and other groups just eat less and the weight will go.

partyguinness

Macy0161 wrote: »

Scam? There's a bit of a myth that all low fat and zero fat is high in sugar. Like everything, it depends on product and even brand. My experience of natural greek yogurts is there's very little in the sugar content.

I think you have to check labels, but I find "No added sugar" more of a con job more often, and then all the "protein" labels that have appeared. In a lot of cases not much difference from the standard product.

Macros are protein, fats and carbs- not sugar. I look at it from that prospective rather than sugar on its own. The narrative for decades is that fat = bad. No it is not.

You have essental fats and proteins. You do not have essential carbs and sugar but does not mean you exclude carbs and sugar. Just learn about the macros and understand it and take it from there.

The 'No added sugar' is part of the same 'low fat/no fat' narrative.Of course 'No added suger' means just that. It does not mean there is no suger. Usually means there is TBH. It is a word play.

Sugar is everywhere and is not the necessarily the evil which I think you are hoping I am inferring. I don't have a sweet tooth and never been one to add sugar or even eat sweets growing up. Excess sugar sure like any excess is bad. I eat a lot of fruit- packed with sugar.

Stone Deaf 4evr

people can't grasp serving sizes (and the fact that they're deliberately misleading)

'healthy' cereal, only 110 calories per 25g serving, but that serving size hardly covers the arse of the bowl, and doesn't take into account the milk going with it.
'healthy' olive or coconut oil in cooking, 120 cals per tablespoon.

get a small digital scale, weigh everything, and once your mind is finished being blown - reap results.
Its not magic, it just needs proper attention.

partyguinness

lapua20grain wrote: »

) its nonsense to say that you cut out carbs and other groups just eat less and the weight will go.

If you are referring to me then you have misconstrued my posts. I specifically mentioned it was about rebalancing the ratio of macros (fats, carbs and protein).

Cut down on the excess carbs (not exclude) because that is where most people overload on calories and substitute it better foods like you did- with vegetables. TBH it is downright impossible to completely exclude carbs anyway. I significantly cut down and then started to reintroduce complex carbs after a couple of months once I had researched more. I love my toast and marmite too much.

You don’t hear of people piling on the weight gorging on tuna and turkey meat in front of the TV. Crisps, biscuits, bread yes but not protein or fats.

Excluding entire food groups is a crash diet and no good in the long run. It is merely another form of calorie deficit but with a fancy marketing gimmick.

Great going with the weight loss.

LasersGoPewPew

Seve OB wrote: »

Fair play on loosing the weight, but there is no way in the world that this is a healthy way to live

Some claims of fasting are indeed questionable. However, it does increase insulin sensitivity. It increases fat loss because of obvious reasons. It decreases inflammation and can improve some skin conditions.

The 3 day fasting claim is mostly BS in my opinion and it can be dangerous, supplementation of electrolytes is critical to maintain homeostasis. And his point about cleansing the body doesn't make sense to me. A healthy liver does that anyway, I'm not aware of any type of cleansing pathway that results from fasting, except autophagy. But that pathway isn't well understood yet in humans. If he's talking about his colon then laxatives would achieve similar results without the fasting

Dtp1979

At 6% bodyfat, should you not be like, dead?

D13exile

Seve OB wrote: »

Fair play on loosing the weight, but there is no way in the world that this is a healthy way to live

And being overweight/obese is? Every time you put food in your mouth, your body spikes insulin, do this too often and it leads to insulin resistance in your body's cells, resulting in a decrease in the cell's efficiency to produce energy. There is a direct correlation between the western obsession with three meals a day (plus snacks) in a high carb diet and the ever increasing incidence of type 2 diabetes and obesity in the general population.

As for myself and my motivation to lose weight, I had an ultrasound scan on my abdomen earlier this year that showed I had a massively fatty liver. Long term, this would cause cirrhosis of that organ and kill it and by extension, me. So that was the kick I needed to address my diet and lose the weight I'd carried not only on my waist but in sub visceral fatty deposits like on my liver. For the first time since my early 20's, I now have a waistline, I can see my abs and I don't see a protruding belly when I look down. Being able to average 35kph for 3-4 hours on a road bike at my age (51) speaks volumes for my fitness. As I said earlier, my diet consists of huge helpings of fresh vegetables and small/medium amounts of "good" protein sources like salmon. So I know I'm eating better than most, even if my feeding window is restricted to one hour a day. Our ancient ancestors could go days if not weeks between meals when relying on their hunting skills (joke here - "did you know the word "vegetarian" was formed in stone age times?.. It means "bad hunter"!!). I'm sure they weren't obsessed with getting 3-4 meals each and every day!

partyguinness

Dtp1979 wrote: »

At 6% bodyfat, should you not be like, dead?

LOL....no. Wife is not impressed but you should see my running times so I don't care...:D

A lot bonier yes and trying to find 29/30 inch waist jeans/trousers is a bitch. TBH I could do with losing a few more pounds of fat. Trying to avoid muscle wastage is the big problem.

D13exile

LasersGoPewPew wrote: »

Some claims of fasting are indeed questionable. However, it does increase insulin sensitivity. It increases fat loss because of obvious reasons. It decreases inflammation and can improve some skin conditions.

The 3 day fasting claim is mostly BS in my opinion and it can be dangerous, supplementation of electrolytes is critical to maintain homeostasis. And his point about cleansing the body doesn't make sense to me. A healthy liver does that anyway, I'm not aware of any type of cleansing pathway that results from fasting, except autophagy. But that pathway isn't well understood yet in humans. If he's talking about his colon then laxatives would achieve similar results without the fasting

Have you read the studies that indicate that a 24 hour fast induces stem cells to grow in your intestines to repair damage and that a three day fast extends this stem cell production to all of the body to repair/renew tissues? Yes most of the research has been based on animal studies but there is a growing body of evidence from human studies, which while not conclusive as yet, show similar results to those obtain in the animal tests.

As for the "cleansing" of the Colon, are you aware of SIBO and Candida that occur in the intestines? The first is small intestine bacterial overgrowth wherein bacteria that should be in your large intestine grow up into your small intestine causing serious digestive problems. Candida is a bacteria that is normally kept in check in your gut but an overgrowth can also lead to intestinal issues. A three days water fast deprives these organisms of their food source and they get flushed out of the colon naturally. If you drink enough water, why on earth would you use a laxative?

partyguinness

Any diet or product that has words like 'cleansing' or 'detox' should be banished to the depths of hell.

Alf Veedersane

Calorie-dense food is tasty. People like that.
Discipline is hard. People don't like that.

Also, people eat with their eyes -> full plates

Macy0161

OP - go look up actual science.

partyguinness

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

people can't grasp serving sizes (and the fact that they're deliberately misleading)

'healthy' cereal, only 110 calories per 25g serving, but that serving size hardly covers the arse of the bowl, and doesn't take into account the milk going with it.
'healthy' olive or coconut oil in cooking, 120 cals per tablespoon.

get a small digital scale, weigh everything, and once your mind is finished being blown - reap results.
Its not magic, it just needs proper attention.

Yeah or the "Only 95calories*" in big bold writing
(per 1/4 serving)

I use a digital scale. It is a ball ache to begin but once you have done it once and generally stick to the same diet it's grand.

SortingYouOut

Some people have a real issue with insulin resistance that can affect their hunger regulation and energy. High insulin also dampens your fat burning mechanisms but it's mainly down to Cals in/Cals out. The insulin issue can just result in over eating.

SortingYouOut

D13exile wrote: »

Have you read the studies that indicate that a 24 hour fast induces stem cells to grow in your intestines to repair damage and that a three day fast extends this stem cell production to all of the body to repair/renew tissues? Yes most of the research has been based on animal studies but there is a growing body of evidence from human studies, which while not conclusive as yet, show similar results to those obtain in the animal tests.

As for the "cleansing" of the Colon, are you aware of SIBO and Candida that occur in the intestines? The first is small intestine bacterial overgrowth wherein bacteria that should be in your large intestine grow up into your small intestine causing serious digestive problems. Candida is a bacteria that is normally kept in check in your gut but an overgrowth can also lead to intestinal issues. A three days water fast deprives these organisms of their food source and they get flushed out of the colon naturally. If you drink enough water, why on earth would you use a laxative?

Fasting is immense for your health. I agree with you that this whole idea if three meals a day is a very new concept and definitely doing damage to our health due to insulin resistance and us not allowing our body to truly rest. Fasting has been proven to induce autophagy, which is crazy. We can flush out precancerous cells and repair damaged ones by fasting for a day or two every month.

lapua20grain

partyguinness wrote: »

If you are referring to me then you have misconstrued my posts. I specifically mentioned it was about rebalancing the ratio of macros (fats, carbs and protein).

Cut down on the excess carbs (not exclude) because that is where most people overload on calories and substitute it better foods like you did- with vegetables. TBH it is downright impossible to completely exclude carbs anyway. I significantly cut down and then started to reintroduce complex carbs after a couple of months once I had researched more. I love my toast and marmite too much.

You don’t hear of people piling on the weight gorging on tuna and turkey meat in front of the TV. Crisps, biscuits, bread yes but not protein or fats.

Excluding entire food groups is a crash diet and no good in the long run. It is merely another form of calorie deficit but with a fancy marketing gimmick.

Great going with the weight loss.

Cheers, apologies I took it up wrong you are right in what you are saying.

partyguinness

shootermacg wrote: »

I'm currently losing 2lbs a week, it's simple to do if somewhat difficult.

My day consists of:

weekdays:

---

1 black coffee in the morning.
work
10K run at 12:30
work
8 or 10K run at 17:00
Dinner
TV / PC
Bed

Saturday

---

1 10K run + Try to keep eating in check
Bottle of vino at 8 + try to keep eating in check

Sunday

---

Rest day + loosen up on the eating restrictions.

Keeping track (Ignore the drastic weight loss during a single week, it's mostly fluid I think) and I don't count Saturday:

day run 1 run 2

---

[16/11/2020]

---

monday 13st 12lbs
wednesday 13st 5lbs
thursday 13st 6lbs 13st 4lbs
friday 13st 5lbs 13st 3lbs

---

[23/11/2020] 9.7km/h

---

mon (12K)13st 6lbs (6km)13st 5lbs
tue (10K)13st 5lbs (6km)13st 3lbs
wed (10K)13st 6lbs (6km)13st 4lbs <--ate a lot of cakes night before and 2 in the morning
thur (10K)13st 4lbs (8km)13st 2lbs
fri (10K)13st 3lbs (8km)13st 1lbs <--chinese snacknox + S&P chicken night before

---

[30/11/2020] 9.8km/h

---

mon (10K)13st 4lbs (8km)13st 2lbs
tue (10K)13st 2lbs (8km)13st 0lbs
wed ( 6K)13st 2lbs <--busy day couldn't get much running in.
thur (10K)13st 3lbs (10K)13st 1lbs
fri (10K)13st 1lbs (8km)12st 13lbs

---

[07/12/2020] 9.9km/h

---

mon (10K)13st 2lbs (10K)13st 0lbs
tue (10K)12st 13lbs (8km)12st 11lbs
wed (10K)12st 12lbs (8km)12st 10lbs
thur (10K)12st 10lbs (8km)12st 8lbs
fri (10K)12st 9lbs (6km)12st 8lbs

---

[14/12/2020] 10km/h

---

mon (10K)13st 0lbs (8km)12st 13lbs
tue (10K)12st 13lbs (8km)12st 12lbs
wed (10K)12st 11lbs
thur
fri

---

From a running perspective you should try mixing it up a bit perhaps increase the mileage or the surface. If you keep running essentially the same distance all the time your body will just get used to it and your gains will grind to a halt. Just bear it in mind.

Omega28

So much information to absorb from this - thanks to everyone who's responded.

I'm not cycling these days so the only cardio I'm doing is the treadmill but primarily focused on lifting weights for now.

I was 80kg in October 2018 but since taking a max dose of anti depressants, which is rarely prescribed, I'm now 99/100kg. I mentioned this to my medical team but they said my weight gain has nothing to do with the medication.

I go the gym daily and I cycle/walk everywhere. I'm 33 and only in the last year or so I've been eating all this food. I don't smoke or even drink.
My mind is constantly absorbed with thoughts of food and how to lose weight but nothing budges on the scales.

Maybe it is binge eating. I could easily eat beyond 6000 calories. Sometimes I feel like a bottomless pit. I eat without thinking.

So, I'm going to try and do what others have suggested here and try restrict my calorie intake and enjoy the hunger. I'll also try not to buy the chocolate, jellies and bring them home.

I'm not physically inactive. I just battle terribly with food.

SortingYouOut

Omega28 wrote: »

So much information to absorb from this - thanks to everyone who's responded.

I'm not cycling these days so the only cardio I'm doing is the treadmill but primarily focused on lifting weights for now.

I was 80kg in October 2018 but since taking a max dose of anti depressants, which is rarely prescribed, I'm now 99/100kg. I mentioned this to my medical team but they said my weight gain has nothing to do with the medication.

I go the gym daily and I cycle/walk everywhere. I'm 33 and only in the last year or so I've been eating all this food. I don't smoke or even drink.
My mind is constantly absorbed with thoughts of food and how to lose weight but nothing budges on the scales.

Maybe it is binge eating. I could easily eat beyond 6000 calories. Sometimes I feel like a bottomless pit. I eat without thinking.

So, I'm going to try and do what others have suggested here and try restrict my calorie intake and enjoy the hunger. I'll also try not to buy the chocolate, jellies and bring them home.

I'm not physically inactive. I just battle terribly with food.

Binge eating is my problem too. Keto took away my cravings and urges for sugar. People think of sugar cravings as eating sweets etc. but any carbohydrate is scratching that itch. If you're willing to put up with a week or two of mood swings to begin with, you'll open up a whole new world with keto. Our notion of correct diet is incorrect and the food pyramid is still used by the HSE today, even though the mind behind it, Ancel Keys, has been proven wrong by numerous physiologists and others smarter than I could ever dream.

The problem you have is no different than a smoker or alcoholic but your vice is glucose. If you want to take away that want for food, you need to cut the sugar-insulin-crash cycle. You're eating carbs, insulin spikes too high and dips your sugar too low so you end up hungry again due to the blocking effect insulin has on your hunger hormone. You eat more then and the sugar spike brings your energy back to how it should but again, insulin comes along and crashes you to begin the cycle again. Sugar is the root of your problems and I see myself in what you've been saying.

You're well able to get over this man and feel free to PM me for anything you need info wise. I'm currently on my journey, 2 months in and 2 stone down. After the first two weeks, it's a walk in the park.

You'll get a lot of people saying it's all about calories in and calories out, which is of course the base of it all but they don't take into account the factors that make you take in more calories than you should. Food addiction is very real and I feel your pain. Sugar and fast food should be treated just like tobacco, it's disgusting what's happening to people.

shootermacg

partyguinness wrote: »

From a running perspective you should try mixing it up a bit perhaps increase the mileage or the surface. If you keep running essentially the same distance all the time your body will just get used to it and your gains will grind to a halt. Just bear it in mind.

I'm am increasing the speed by 0.1KM each week. I find that transition to be challenging. I started at 8Kph and 16 stone, then 8.5, then 9, then 9.5. I found 9.5 to be tough at the time, so, it was at that point that I increased the pace in smaller increments.

I've steadily lost 2lbs a week and I suspect I would have lost 2lbs if I'd have kept at any pace. The increase in pace is save me time, not because it is not working. I burn exactly the same calories at 9.5kph as I do at 10Kph, it just takes more time to do.

Funnily enough, I've found the change from 9.9 to 10kph to be the hardest. My wife thinks this is because 10kph is probably near my limit.

I have 1 more stone to lose, then I'll cut down on the mileage.

freddie1970

D13exile wrote: »

While I've exercised regularly for years (running/cycling 4-5 times a week followed by a half hour of weights), I just couldn't get my weight below 96kgs. I'm 5'10, (but with a 44 inch chest and muscular) but at that weight, I was "obese" according to the catch all BMI measurement, even though I could cycle 100kms in 3 and a half hours. However this year, with working from home due to Covid, I could watch what I eat more closely (no more chips and junk in the staff canteen and cakes/biscuits/chocolate at night), I started on the intermittent fasting regimen for 4 months from April this year (eat my meals from 4pm to 8pm only and all home cooked natural and unprocessed food) and my weight fell to 88kgs. I've now moved to OMAD which is one meal a day, albeit eating a large plate of salad at 5pm, followed by steak/salmon/eggs with a large plate of vegetables at 5.30pm and a "treat" of either a plate of fruit or nuts at 6pm. My weight has now dropped to 84kgs. I feel so much better, alert and full of energy than I did when eating crap food. The added bonus is that now that I'm 12kgs lighter, my speed on the bike has increased to an average of 35kph as I'm not lugging round the equivalent of 12 bags of sugar with me anymore.

So exercise as much as you want but if you're eating a crap diet, you will struggle to shift the excess weight. I'd recommend you try intermittent fasting for a start, i.e. fast for 16 hours and eat your meals in an 8 hour window. It's not that hard as you sleep for 7-8 hours a night anyway and so all you have to do is skip breakfast and then eat lunch and dinner between midday and 8pm. The benefit of this is not only giving your digestive system time to "rest" between eating, but it will lower insulin resistance which will stop you craving sugary foods and also increase the hormone Leptin which stops you feeling hungry. I go 23 hours a day without eating (but I drink a lot of water) and it doesn't bother me at all. I can exercise and still feel full of energy as my metabolism has shifted from burning glucose to burning fat which is a more sustainable fuel source for the body (plus it helps shift those stubborn kilos).

And for the piece de resistance, once a month I do a 3 day water only fast to clean out my system of toxins. Trust me, you'd be shocked at the crap (excuse the pun) that your body ejects on a water fast even if your diet is good. Once I keep active, I don't miss food at all for the 3 days. The downside is insomnia for some strange reason but the upside is that when you start eating again after the three days, simple foods like tomatoes and cucumber taste delicious!

I believe in each to their own and I'm not the type to push faddy diets on anyone but intermittent fasting and OMAD has helped me shift weight that years of exercising couldn't. The healthier diet of fresh and unprocessed food has made me feel years younger.

How do you feel mentally after intermittent fasting