Public Service - Salary Scale

the-island-man

Hi,

I am wondering if someone could clarify what way the salary scale works in the public service?

I have recently seen an advertisement for a job in the public service and a salary scale is given. It has salary points labelled from 1-13 followed by 3 more salary points labelled with MAX, LSI 1 & LSI 2. I have absolutely no idea how this works. Is the successful candidate able to negotiate the salary or is it based specifically on years of service within the public sector?

Thank you in advance,
the-island-man

tea and coffee

You start at the bottom of the scale and, in any role I have ever seen, it's non- negotiable.
LSI 1 and 2 refer to long service increments which you receive after (usually) being at the top of the scale for 5 and 10 years respectively.

the-island-man

Thank you for the reply and do you go up one salary point every year?

the14thwarrior

yes you do.
unless you have excessive sick leave etc. and your manager doesn't sign off on it, you go up the scales till you reach the end of it

Diceicle

the-island-man wrote: »

Hi,

I am wondering if someone could clarify what way the salary scale works in the public service?

I have recently seen an advertisement for a job in the public service and a salary scale is given. It has salary points labelled from 1-13 followed by 3 more salary points labelled with MAX, LSI 1 & LSI 2. I have absolutely no idea how this works. Is the successful candidate able to negotiate the salary or is it based specifically on years of service within the public sector?

Thank you in advance,
the-island-man

Your starting point on the scale can be negotiated - normally it is not. Very much depends on the level you are going in on, skill set etc
If you're going in as an experienced Project Manager on a high level project, you've more room for negotiation than a Clerical Officer per see.

LS1 and 2 are normally 3 and 5 years respectively.

caviardreams

Diceicle wrote: »

Your starting point on the scale can be negotiated - normally it is not. Very much depends on the level you are going in on, skill set etc
If you're going in as an experienced Project Manager on a high level project, you've more room for negotiation than a Clerical Officer per see.

LS1 and 2 are normally 3 and 5 years respectively.

If you are brand new to the public service I am pretty sure you start at the minimum end of. Some leeway these days for incremental credit for previous public service

Samuel T. Cogley

LS1 and LS2 are 3 and 6 years no?

Certain Civil Service COs and EOs are skipping points 4 and 8 on the scale - not sure about public service.

Diceicle

caviardreams wrote: »

If you are brand new to the public service I am pretty sure you start at the minimum end of. Some leeway these days for incremental credit for previous public service

In the majority of cases yes - its first point of the scale. Thats not to say people going in mid-scale never happens - but they are more specialist jobs or have some sort of connection in the service.

Diceicle

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

LS1 and LS2 are 3 and 6 years no?

Certain Civil Service COs and EOs are skipping points 4 and 8 on the scale - not sure about public service.

Just looked it up there - for the PS its 3 years to LS1 then 3 more to LS2 and another 3 to LS3 (if there is one).

parisee88

Hi folks, I took up my first role in the a stautory agency ie public service in Janunary 2021 - it was a mat leave contract but I worked there up until my new role which is still within the public service - do I have a right to an increment or what is the best way to go about it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560563#Comment_118560563

You'll have to claim it from your hr

the-island-man

Completely different question from what parisee88 is asking but say you are 5 points along the salary scale on a particular grade, let's say a HEO for argument sake and you get a promotion to AP. Do you start at the bottom of the salary scale for an AP or do you go straight to 5 points along the scale?

2021_AP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577923#Comment_118577923

You go to the bottom of the scale unless your salary in previous role is higher than that

It's all dealt with in the circular which details pay upon promotion

parisee88

Thanks have raised it with them so will report back here! Going to be gobbled up by inflation in any case..

the-island-man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577945#Comment_118577945

This one I presume:

https://www.gov.ie/en/circular/57443f-082019-starting-pay-on-promotion/

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/115614974#Comment_115614974

Going in mid-scale hasn't happened for about 20 years. Read the booklet for the competition. It will tell you that you start at the bottom of the scale, unless you have prior public service experience.

griffin100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118591484#Comment_118591484

That might be the case in the Civil Service but in the part of the Public Service I work in I regularly take in staff well up the relevant scale who has no prior public sector experience. I have to justify it every time but that's easy enough to do as they (a) usually earned more in the private sector and wont join if it means a large pay cut or (b) have a skill set I won't get for point 1 on the scale.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118594776#Comment_118594776

I’d love to see one of your recruitment booklets,

griffin100

We don't issue Recruitment Booklets per se, rather job descriptions with Functional and Core Competencies listed along with a salary scale and a note that you will be placed on a point on the scale in line with Dept. Finance Guidelines / based on experience and qualifications. I'd never be able to recruit entry level admin support if they had to start on point 1 of the relevant scale (~€27,500).

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118596113#Comment_118596113

I

This contradicts current DPER policy; from;https://circulars.gov.ie/pdf/circular/per/2019/08.pdf

griffin100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118597567#Comment_118597567

I'm in the wider public service rather than the civil service. We would appear to have a lot more flexibility than the civil service. Our grades aren't really analogous to any civil service grades.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118599908#Comment_118599908

Commercial semi state?

Hard to believe that admin support is the issue? Admin jobs have the same requirements everywhere. If you were talking about specialised technical roles, then you might have an argument but not basic admin.

griffin100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118600180#Comment_118600180

Not commercial semi state, third level education. Most of our entry level admin roles require a couple of years experience and some a degree but not all.

Going off topic here but I am always in awe of how popular the Clerical Officer threads are on here when I can struggle to get more than 5-6 applicants for a similar role with similar entry criteria but with with better pay and prospects. We don't advertise on Public Jobs as a rule so maybe we aren't on everyone's radar (that goes for almost the entire sector).

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118600475#Comment_118600475

Just seems out of whack with what is going on elsewhere. Here's an Exec Assistant post in Maynooth University, looking for degree plus three years, offering Dept Finance scale starting at €25k - 12 month contract, noting "New entrants to the public sector will be appointed on the first point of the above scale".

https://my.corehr.com/pls/nuimrecruit/erq_jobspec_version_4.display_form?p_company=1&p_internal_external=E&p_display_in_irish=N&p_process_type=&p_applicant_no=&p_form_profile_detail=&p_display_apply_ind=Y&p_refresh_search=Y&p_recruitment_id=013961

red scarecrow

Can puy be negotiated. I am on the top end of a scale in public sector with department of education. €42k

I have applied for a new job with starting salary 33k I’m public sector however this role requires a level 8 degree to do and my other role didn’t. It’s a higher more responsibility role. Will I automatically go in on the scale at 42k or will I have to fight for it?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118791534#Comment_118791534

What does it say exactly about starting salary in the booklet for the new post?

red scarecrow

It says starting point scale one I think? I’ll go check.

red scarecrow

Entry will be at the minimum of the scale and the rate of remuneration will not be subject to negotiation and may be adjusted from time to time in line with Government pay policy.

Different terms and conditions may apply if you are a currently serving civil or public servant.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118791571#Comment_118791571

You should be able to get put on to the same salary you are on now then.

red scarecrow

That would be great. I am currently on a career break and working in private sector. Do you have to be in the job to get it. Is a career break stilL considered being employed as such.

Sophia Petrillo

Good updates.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118594932#Comment_118594932

Department of Education Circular 01/05 provides for incremental credit on appointment for Assistant Lecturers and is still in force.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118791649#Comment_118791649

Being on a career break is considered as still in employment. You should check the relevant circular for your sector to confirm.

MarkR

I started in a public sector job a few years back midscale, so it is possible.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118793891#Comment_118793891

Tks, looks like a very specific solution was put in place for specific roles in one specific sector.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118794034#Comment_118794034

In general, it is not possible, except for prior public sector experience. There may be some small number of specific roles in specific sectors where it IS possible, but they would be the exception to the rule.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795597#Comment_118795597

You could check with Forsa, but I think the circular for incremental credit for admin staff is still in force for ETBs and IOTs/TUs.

billyhead

Slightly of topic but does anyone know if say your at an AP grade and decide to apply for an EO position in open competition and you are successful do you start at the first point of the scale because it's an open competition or do you go on the max point of the scale because you're earnings as an AP would have been far higher than the max EO scale?

Bicyclette

This might answer your question https://circulars.gov.ie/pdf/circular/finance/2007/40.pdf (there may be later circulars, but you could google those the same way I googled this)

the-island-man

A bit of topic from the Thread title so forgive me!

I started recently with a state agency in the public sector. Just curious to find out more about secondments seen as it's topical at the moment!

Secondment opportunities don't seem to be advertised by publicjobs.ie so how are they advertised and who can usually apply?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118924276#Comment_118924276

Secondments come in different types.

Some secondment opportunities are circulated from HR Departments where they are planned in advance for special projects, offices etc.

Others arise from jobs that people get e.g. many of the union officials are on secondment from the civil service.

BlueAW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118925267#Comment_118925267

Any info on the pay rise talks happening next month? Do people think it’ll be more than the 1% planned in October?

the-island-man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118925267#Comment_118925267

That sounds ridiculous! So government departments are paying for employees to work for unions? 🙄

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118577923#Comment_118577923

You will go in at the point higher than your current salary.

No point of the HEO salary scale is higher than the AP though so no issue really.

LegallyAbroad