Skipping gear help

paddie9

Folks
Classic issue will skip a gear down or up, depending on which way I adjust.
1. Changed chain, derailleur, wire, outer cable, cassette.
2. Had the derailleur aligned.
3. Local mechanic had a go, changed cables again. No resolution.
4. Checked compatibility, 10 speed shimano correct derailleur and shifter for new and old.

Anything else

cletus

paddie9 wrote: »

Folks
Classic issue will skip a gear down or up, depending on which way I adjust.
1. Changed chain, derailleur, wire, outer cable, cassette.
2. Had the derailleur aligned.
3. Local mechanic had a go, changed cables again. No resolution.
4. Checked compatibility, 10 speed shimano correct derailleur and shifter for new and old.

Anything else

Bent derailleur hanger?

paddie9

cletus wrote: »

Bent derailleur hanger?

Mechanic checked the alignment, straightened a bit, no impact.

lissard

paddie9 wrote: »

Mechanic checked the alignment, straightened a bit, no impact.

Sounds like your mechanic doesn't know how to index gears, it's a routine part of their job. Here's a good video that explains how to do it.
https://youtu.be/UkZxPIZ1ngY

magicbastarder

did you check for chain and/or drivetrain wear?

Cee-Jay-Cee

lissard wrote: »

Sounds like your mechanic doesn't know how to index gears, it's a routine part of their job. Here's a good video that explains how to do it.
https://youtu.be/UkZxPIZ1ngY

I’m sure if he managed to check hanger alignment and changed the cable then he knows how to index gears.

RebelButtMunch

What's the shifting mechanism?

coastwatch

Probably checked already but is the cassette located correctly (square) on hub ?

paddie9

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

I’m sure if he managed to check hanger alignment and changed the cable then he knows how to index gears.

Yep normally do it myself. He's a fine mechanic

paddie9

coastwatch wrote: »

Probably checked already but is the cassette located correctly (square) on hub ?

Yes changed the cassette also

paddie9

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

What's the shifting mechanism?

Tiagra 10 speed. Origin derailleur also tiagra, moved to 105 10 speed to try solve issue

paddie9

magicbastarder wrote: »

did you check for chain and/or drivetrain wear?

New cassette

8valve

paddie9 wrote: »

New cassette

Feckit, new bike.

paddie9

8valve wrote: »

Feckit, new bike.

You are not wrong, I down the rabbit hole now.
If I knew what I know now definitely would have bought a fixie

07Lapierre

Are the jockey wheels inline?

hesker

Are either of the cones loose?

Did you check the cassette spacer widths. Long shot but worth checking.

Is it only a specific cog and is it just one cog only.

Did you say you tried a new shifter. If not try swapping that out.

Had my own share of cassette issues recently. Bought a cassette second hand that looked fine but had some worn cogs. That’s understandable but then bought a brand new Miche cassette and with a brand new KMC chain it would not shift from second biggest cog to third biggest. Swapped out the problem cog for a cog from the second hand cassette and problem went away. Go figure.

crosstownk

Worn freehub? A worn freehub can cause the cassette to 'wobble' about the axle which makes it impossible to index reliably.

Check to see if the cassette moves by using your hand to try make it move about. Although I would hope the mechanic checked for this.

ted1

paddie9 wrote: »

Folks
Classic issue will skip a gear down or up, depending on which way I adjust.
1. Changed chain, derailleur, wire, outer cable, cassette.
2. Had the derailleur aligned.
3. Local mechanic had a go, changed cables again. No resolution.
4. Checked compatibility, 10 speed shimano correct derailleur and shifter for new and old.

Anything else

Is the shifter the issue?

paddie9

ted1 wrote: »

Is the shifter the issue?

Possibly never heard of one that would cause this. Cost prohibitive to check, probably 100 euros.
I think take some time Wednesday strip it all down and start again. Maybe change any parts I have available.

cletus

Is it skipping on a specific cog? Or is it predictable where it will skip?

I think it could be worth cleaning out and lightly oiling the ratchet mechanism in the shifter

PJD

Try releasing the wheel and re-seating it. It might align everything a little better.

paddie9

cletus wrote: »

Is it skipping on a specific cog? Or is it predictable where it will skip?

I think it could be worth cleaning out and lightly oiling the ratchet mechanism in the shifter

Well predictable depending on how I adjust. Maybe degrease also
Going to set aside Wednesday disassemble clean and put back together

paddie9

PJD wrote: »

Try releasing the wheel and re-seating it. It might align everything a little better.

I've changed the wheel a few times, might try again. Going to set aside Wednesday disassemble clean and put back together

paddie9

Changed everything again including wheel, cassette, New cable, derailleur
No change, convinced it's the hanger even though I got it aligned.
Didn't charge the shiftet due to cost.
Send to a different shop after Christmas. After the that I give up.

cletus

paddie9 wrote: »

Changed everything again including wheel, cassette, New cable, derailleur
No change, convinced it's the hanger even though I got it aligned.
Didn't charge the shiftet due to cost.
Send to a different shop after Christmas. After the that I give up.

Did you clean the shifter?

A hanger is very cheap in comparison to the parts you've changed. I'd definitely buy one and try it

paddie9

Degreased and cleaned shifters. While hanger is cheap as always it's hard to get some, im having particular difficulty locating one.

It's a ribble and they don't have a new one, still an alignment should have sorted it. Thinking of getting an alignment tool or making one

07Lapierre

Is the cable internal or external routed?

Plastik

Are you running Tiagra10 shifters with 105 10 RD? Tiagra10 has a different pull ratio AFAIK.

paddie9

07Lapierre wrote: »

Is the cable internal or external routed?

External, replaced twice

paddie9

Plastik wrote: »

Are you running Tiagra10 shifters with 105 10 RD? Tiagra10 has a different pull ratio AFAIK.

So from everything I and mechanic have read from shimano, tiagra 4700 10 speed shifter is not compatible with any other derailleur.
However I've a tiagra 4600 shifter which should be compatible with all other shimano 10 speed.

That's from everything shimano have issued

at1withmyself

paddie9 wrote: »

So from everything I and mechanic have read from shimano, tiagra 4700 10 speed shifter is not compatible with any other derailleur.
However I've a tiagra 4600 shifter which should be compatible with all other shimano 10 speed.

That's from everything shimano have issued

Shimano have great compatibility charts if you Google them, I'm on phone so can't link but will look later and see.

As per above post some parts are not back or forward compatible so that could be your issue.

What is the model shifter, rear mech and cassette your using?

Type 17

at1withmyself wrote: »

Shimano have great compatibility charts...

As per above post some parts are not back or forward compatible so that could be your issue.

Shimano Road Rear Drivetrain Compatibility (scroll to the 2x10 speed section)

Confirm what ST (shifters) you have, then work across to the right to confirm that the RD (rear derailleur) that you have is compatible.

paddie9

Type 17 wrote: »

Shimano Road Rear Drivetrain Compatibility (scroll to the 2x10 speed section)

Confirm what ST (shifters) you have, then work across to the right to confirm that the RD (rear derailleur) that you have is compatible.

There was a 4600 shifter and derailleur on it.
I changed the derailleur to a 5701 derailleur. HG 10 speed cassette and chain. Checked pre-purchase all should match
Ive tried various mixes of the parts before and after realignment

paddie9

Have in such a way that it changes smoothly up and down, while skipping a gear each way. Im inclined to give up at that for a while.

Type 17

That should all be compatible.

If everything is compatible, and nothing is misaligned, the only thing that I can think of is that the inner wire of the rear derailleur cable is on the wrong side of the pinch-bolt, but that usually gives a much worse performance than just skipping one gear each way.

Edit: are the jockey wheels of the RD original, and are they still correctly positioned? (top one is marked Centron G-Pulley or similar, and lower one is marked tension pulley or similar). The top one is designed to have some lateral play by design, and if you accidentally swap them, or fit (some types of) third-party pulleys, the indexing can be poor, especially with narrower setups (9/10/11 speed)

at1withmyself

paddie9 wrote: »

There was a 4600 shifter and derailleur on it.
I changed the derailleur to a 5701 derailleur. HG 10 speed cassette and chain. Checked pre-purchase all should match
Ive tried various mixes of the parts before and after realignment

What model us the cassette and chain?

paddie9

Type 17 wrote: »

That should all be compatible.

If everything is compatible, and nothing is misaligned, the only thing that I can think of is that the inner wire of the rear derailleur cable is on the wrong side of the pinch-bolt, but that usually gives a much worse performance than just skipping one gear each way.


Hard to belive but it was the wire on the outside. The pinch bolt compressing plate was turned the wrong way.
Fairplay never heard before, 7 bikes in shed all arranged differently first time ever had that problem

paddie9

Big Thanks to everybody for contributions, thought I was going to run into serious expense.
Think I originally had a different issue, first derailleur definitely bent, the handset was also misaligned.

Hope I can help someone sometime

Type 17

paddie9 wrote: »

Hard to believe but it was the wire on the outside. The pinch bolt compressing plate was turned the wrong way.
Fairplay never heard before, 7 bikes in shed all arranged differently first time ever had that problem

Good to hear that it got sorted - the routing matters because having it the wrong side of the bolt effectively alters the length of the arm that the pinch-bolt is on, and messes up the indexing.
A similar, common issue is routing the cable for many front derailleurs under the boss that is beside the pinch-bolt, when the correct route is over the top of the boss, and then under the bolt.

Rear derailleur cable routing does depend on the derailleur model - on most of the older stuff, the cable goes on the inside of the bolt (closest to the spokes), but on some newer, high-end stuff, the cable goes outside of the pinch-bolt.
If you're unsure, remove the bolt and examine the derailleur body - there's almost always a pathway stamped/moulded into the metal. Also note that the curved tabs on the pinch-bolt washers are to prevent the washer rotating during tightening, and not to put the cable under.