Opinion on revived Department of Justice awareness campaign re: sexual harassment?

bo0li5eumx12kp

These ads have been popping up on Spotify whilst my tech trance playlist is giving it large:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDf9ZVfq5LQ

Something that for sure needs to be taken into account on so many levels, the first springing to mind for myself being anti-social behavior in its various incarnations (in addition to more obvious forms of sexual harassment).

There was actually a neuroscience study conducted (can dig for link if required), correlating behavior almost exactly with the sexual emotional impetus.
i.e. behaviors like confrontationalism, thug'ish related intimidation and bullying etc.

All fundamentally driven by sexuality.

I think a genuine drive/push in this capacity, awareness and most specifically, awareness in Law Enforcement district offices (including all those little backwater locations whom have conventionally used their little backwater style of law enforcement) around the entire country, to be mindful of this in relation to complaints and the type of behavior they would see and contend with day to day - in addition to complaints of explicit sexual harassment.

......

We are sexual beings, therefore it's intuitive this would be at the root of our behavior (or mis-behavior, as the case may be).

......

Anyways, I was actually thinking they need to better characterize the more diverse incarnations of harassment - but looking on their channel, they have actually done this in the past.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-dObP2ms20

As far as I'm aware, of course this is being brought to national awareness (or re brought) via the department of justice, but this current push (i.e. revived push) being driven most specifically by members of Irish cabinet Helen McEntee, Jennifer Carroll McNeill and Simon Harris, the latter with specific focus of harassment in 3rd level institutions.

bo0li5eumx12kp

No love.

Mad_maxx

all part and parcel of the infiltration of the civil service by radical feminist ideology which seeks to demonise men from cradle to grave

anyone who can afford it , should educate their sons in private schools

bo0li5eumx12kp

Mad_maxx wrote: »

all part and parcel of the infiltration of the civil service by radical feminist ideology which seeks to demonise men from cradle to grave

anyone who can afford it , should educate their sons in private schools

Actually if you watch the full vid they clearly show sexual harassment in all its incarnations - female to male (happened to me once when I was a rookie - it's pretty horrible), vice-versa, and most specifically MALE TO MALE, which definitely doesn't get enough attention, especially from law enforcement/A.G.S.

I got to be completely honest, one reason I raise this is because I've been dangerously close to physical confrontation with male-to-male sexual predators, and having spoken to A.G.S. about it, basically got the, "wut? man up bruh!" treatment; as in, we don't speak your language on this topic.

I'm perfectly happy to man up, but not happy to live in a society where law enforcement condones physical violence by civilians to address issues they should be on top of.

suicide_circus

They're like the Safe Cross Code ads of old

Gatling

Utterly stupid ad , someone surely should have sat and said what were we thinking

While the first ad is pretty much unbelievable, the second I dont have a problem with.

If it makes people more aware their behaviour (e.g. auld wan touching young fella, lads in dressing room) is unacceptable sexual harassment rather then "bantz" it can only be a good thing.

But it ain't going to do SFA to stop a rapist like the guy picking up the drunk girl.

(What is annoying, there's a UK ad raising awareness (can't find it) where a white guy is leering at a pretty POC girl. fair enough.
But thered be uproar if the races were reversed, and it statistically more probable)

Gervais08

Gatling wrote: »

Utterly stupid ad , someone surely should have sat and said what were we thinking

You would have to be absolutely retarded to look at that and think “ah young love!!” - that being said, women need to be educated to say “get the **** off me!”, and by educated I mean parents empowering their daughters.

The second he puts his hand on her that’s assault in my book.

I can’t recall who said about the whole advert but there are some glaringly obvious cases of harassment - and it’s a good m/f balance; as is the reality I’d say.

Again tho - women, we should stand up for ourselves!! If someone orders a drink - tell them you don’t want one!!

Someone tried that with me and I said “I’m just not going to drink it” - and meant it.

eviltwin

Gervais08 wrote: »

You would have to be absolutely retarded to look at that and think “ah young love!!” - that being said, women need to be educated to say “get the **** off me!”, and by educated I mean parents empowering their daughters.

The second he puts his hand on her that’s assault in my book.

I can’t recall who said about the whole advert but there are some glaringly obvious cases of harassment - and it’s a good m/f balance; as is the reality I’d say.

Again tho - women, we should stand up for ourselves!! If someone orders a drink - tell them you don’t want one!!

Someone tried that with me and I said “I’m just not going to drink it” - and meant it.

It can be intimidating when you are alone. I don’t judge a person of either sex not being more direct if they feel the situation might escalate. Some people will take a no, some don’t and see it as a challenge. That said in a safe environment I’ve no problem doing whatever it takes to help myself or another person out.

Gervais08

eviltwin wrote: »

It can be intimidating when you are alone. I don’t judge a person of either sex not being more direct if they feel the situation might escalate. Some people will take a no, some don’t and see it as a challenge. That said in a safe environment I’ve no problem doing whatever it takes to help myself or another person out.

Generally yeah I agree - but I’m not sure I’d stop and do tai chi in a isolates area like that, but the perv is in the wrong big time.

bo0li5eumx12kp

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

While the first ad is pretty much unbelievable, the second I dont have a problem with.

I agree the opening/new one is kind of lame.

Obviously IRL it'd be old man punter getting his creep on, it doesn't reflect genuine nature of events.

That being said, whilst I applaud their campaign, their overall delivery is still lacking quite dramatically.

As said TD's are so vocal about this issue on social media, you'd expect they'd have invested more effort and cognizance into it's actual delivery.

bo0li5eumx12kp

IMO government needs to start teaching us all how to better talk like Mathew McConnaghy in Dallas Buyers Club,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqo9z6lp4GY

"Fuck off!!"

If we could all deliver a "fuck off" like that, sexual harassment may become a thing of the past.

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/8f73a145-b553-459f-8174-07e7abc21da4#5rkow6qrOiL.copy

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/dd8cf67b-ba05-41e8-945f-c1451e737318#s7w9RgXCmW.copy

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/2c6e2240-78f3-4e37-8563-c04f3183a879#_YBWOU-PTi5.copy

ILoveYourVibes

The thing is ....for young women like me ...these ads don't actually CHANGE anything.

While the whole metoo thing was going on ....people were acting in the Irish media as if this was a new dawn. But i was actually experiencing the same kind of treatment from someone during all of that ...and NOTHING had changed it wasn't easier to have him reprimanded etc.

IMO government needs to start teaching us all how to better talk like Mathew McConnaghy in Dallas Buyers Club,

What good would this do? You think telling someone to **** off is going to make them stop?

And what if your abuser is an adult a teacher or a boss ??

Is the ad going to stop a predator ? NO

Is the ad going to make a bystander more likely to help the victim? No.

bo0li5eumx12kp

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The thing is ....for young women like me ...these ads don't actually CHANGE anything.

While the whole metoo thing was going on ....people were acting in the Irish media as if this was a new dawn. But i was actually experiencing the same kind of treatment from someone during all of that ...and NOTHING had changed it wasn't easier to have him reprimanded etc.



What good would this do? You think telling someone to **** off is going to make them stop?

And what if your abuser is an adult a teacher or a boss ??

Is the ad going to stop a predator ? NO

Is the ad going to make a bystander more likely to help the victim? No.

Not sure really - I guess I'm hypothesizing.

Example - this creepy dude keeps making progressively more explicit passes on me (I'm a straight male) - he just won't take no for an answer and seems to exhibit some kind of entitlement that because he's horny, I'm at fault..... real creepy stuff.

Last time he made a creepy pass, I basically lost it and moved to confront him, physically - as in, throw down, a cat is 'bout to get broke up.

As soon as he sensed this, he minced off - but anything less wouldn't have deterred him.

.....

My concern is a situation like that, and say I did have to rough him up, HE could file a police report against ME - and due to lack of Garda awareness as to male to male sexual harassment, they might neglect my argument and side with him entirely (and I know this through experience as I've spoken to A.G.S. in the past about this and they basically said, "step out of line and yes, you'll be the one who will be prosecuted, regardless of provocation").

Point being, an awareness campaign should be used to not exclusively focus on community awareness, but law enforcement awareness more specifically, and at the moment there is absolutely ZERO taking into account on behalf of A.G.S. when it comes to male to male sexual harassment - those damn incompetents.

bo0li5eumx12kp

Mad_maxx wrote: »

all part and parcel of the infiltration of the civil service by radical feminist ideology which seeks to demonise men from cradle to grave

anyone who can afford it , should educate their sons in private schools

And you know what, given the incompetence of the department of justice delivery on this matter, it really does come across like they have a different agenda.

Is this really feminism pulling the strings behind the scenes?

It's a massive issue that desperately needs to be adequately addressed and publicized, and despite their, "best intentions", their actual actions are translating as neglecting the genuine nature of the situation (i.e. reality), almost entirely.

I mean that first ad - old man punter is passing judgement on a young fit looking dude trying to flirt with a woman his own age?

......

Who buys into this crap?

Vestiapx

Jayson Shallow Pawnbroker wrote: »

And you know what, given the incompetence of the department of justice delivery on this matter, it really does come across like they have a different agenda.

Is this really feminism pulling the strings behind the scenes?

It's a massive issue that desperately needs to be adequately addressed and publicized, and despite their, "best intentions", their actual actions are translating as neglecting the genuine nature of the situation (i.e. reality), almost entirely.

I mean that first ad - old man punter is passing judgement on a young fit looking dude trying to flirt with a woman his own age?

......

Who buys into this crap?

Sorry can you clarify; the guy in the first vid who is putting his hands on the woman he dosen't know is a "young fit looking dude trying to flirt with a woman his one age"?

Jayson Shallow Pawnbroker

Jayson Shallow Pawnbroker wrote: »

but law enforcement awareness more specifically, and at the moment there is absolutely ZERO taking into account on behalf of A.G.S. when it comes to male to male sexual harassment - those damn incompetents.

Sexual harassment is not a crime.

bo0li5eumx12kp

bubblypop wrote: »

Sexual harassment is not a crime.

lolwut???

:pac:

bo0li5eumx12kp

Vestiapx wrote: »

Sorry can you clarify; the guy in the first vid who is putting his hands on the woman he dosen't know is a "young fit looking dude trying to flirt with a woman his one age"?

It's clearly a little OTT, of course - but the point is that situation in reality is old man punter would be the one doing the creeping.

tea and coffee

Mad_maxx wrote: »

all part and parcel of the infiltration of the civil service by radical feminist ideology which seeks to demonise men from cradle to grave

anyone who can afford it , should educate their sons in private schools

Some of the ads portray female perpetrators so I don't think that is quite accurate to say that.

The radio ad running at the moment has a female perpetrator.

And without getting into the merits, demerits or otherwise of the campaign, the CSO stats show that 81.1% of victims of sexual violence were female and 98% of suspected offenders of detected sexual violence were male so should the ads reflect the stats?

bo0li5eumx12kp

tea and coffee wrote: »

Some of the ads portray female perpetrators so I don't think that is quite accurate to say that.

The radio ad running at the moment has a female perpetrator.

And without getting into the merits, demerits or otherwise of the campaign, the CSO stats show that 81.1% of victims of sexual violence were female and 98% of suspected offenders of detected sexual violence were male so should the ads reflect the stats?

Although you can be certain there's a culture of shame when it comes to males reporting harassment (especially from other men), so that stat could be tweaked.

98% of suspected offenders of detected sexual violence were male

This I'm absolutely prepared to believe.

There's some sleazeball gals out there (and plenty of validation seeking trash, to boot - but that's not the issue at hand) but nowhere NEAR close to the percentage of horny deviant men.

bo0li5eumx12kp

If they want to portray stats in more balanced light - their ads should reflect
- men harassing men, and
- men harassing women.

Though with the former, you just know it will be contentious cause of national push to accept homosexuality.

.....

That's where they NEED to be more specific.

I know ghey dudes.
I've hung out with ghey dudes.
Hell I've even LIVED with ghey dudes (shared accommodation, student diggs etc)

They're not the issue.

It's PREDATORY men, that's it - most of whom probably don't even identity as being ghey.

......

It's CRITICAL for them to make this distinction.

Jayson Shallow Pawnbroker

Jayson Shallow Pawnbroker wrote: »

lolwut???

:pac:

What do you not understand?
Sexual harassment is not a crime

bo0li5eumx12kp

https://twitter.com/MensAidIreland/status/1338390010228318208

Jayson Shallow Pawnbroker

Jayson Shallow Pawnbroker wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MensAidIreland/status/1338390010228318208

Thats sexual assault

bo0li5eumx12kp

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Thats sexual assault

Sexual assault happens when harassment isn't fought off sufficiently well - that's half my point behind this entire thread.

Horny dudes take liberties, like preying on whom they perceive to be the weak, whether that's a drunk disoriented gal, or a dude whom they think won't split their face open if they push physical contact too far (to a horny dude, a hole is hole, he just wants to nut, male or female doesn't matter a lot of the time).

.....

At the moment, An Garda Siochona would squarely hold me accountable if I crunched some predators face with a couple headbutts, DESPITE the fact that it was effectively defense against sexual harassment and potential assault.
It's a lose-lose situation for victims, simply cause policy on this matter is either overlooked or neglected.

That's the current dipshit societal setup, by way of geniuses at the department of justice - implemented by their grunts in district garda offices around the country.

.....

What I'm saying is, policy MUST be established to report predatory, harassing and potential assault oriented behavior, get it BEFORE the fact - at least for investigation and awareness such that when things DO go over the line, appropriate police work can THEN be conducted without the, "well, you really need to have been raped before we can press charges" line of inquiry.

National policy is a top down structure, department of justice officials who drum their fingers in their offices, they dictates how police work is conducted throughout the nation - and right now they're continuing to neglect this long since neglected matter.

Jayson Shallow Pawnbroker

Jayson Shallow Pawnbroker wrote: »

Sexual assault happens when harassment isn't fought off sufficiently well - that's half my point behind this entire thread.

Horny dudes take liberties, like preying on whom they perceive to be the weak, whether that's a drunk disoriented gal, or a dude whom they think won't split their face open if they push physical contact too far (to a horny dude, a hole is hole, he just wants to nut, male or female doesn't matter a lot of the time).

.....

At the moment, An Garda Siochona would squarely hold me accountable if I crunched some predators face with a couple headbutts, DESPITE the fact that it was effectively defense against sexual harassment and potential assault.
It's a lose-lose situation for victims, simply cause policy on this matter is either overlooked or neglected.

That's the current dipshit societal setup, by way of geniuses at the department of justice - implemented by their grunts in district garda offices around the country.

.....

What I'm saying is, policy MUST be established to report predatory, harassing and potential assault oriented behavior, get it BEFORE the fact - at least for investigation and awareness such that when things DO go over the line, appropriate police work can THEN be conducted without the, "well, you really need to have been raped before we can press charges" line of inquiry.

National policy is a top down structure, department of justice officials who drum their fingers in their offices, they dictates how police work is conducted throughout the nation - and right now they're continuing to neglect this long since neglected matter.

Perhaps you don't understand how the law works?
In order for gardai to bring a prosecution against someone, they must have broken a law.
Sexual harassment is not a criminal offence.
Sexual assault is.
This has nothing to do with anyone in the department of justice, or their 'grunts' as you so nicely put it, working in garda stations.

You can, of course, get something noted at the station. However, if there is no law against it, then obviously garda hands are tied.

Gervais08

bubblypop wrote: »

Perhaps you don't understand how the law works?
In order for gardai to bring a prosecution against someone, they must have broken a law.
Sexual harassment is not a criminal offence.
Sexual assault is.
This has nothing to do with anyone in the department of justice, or their 'grunts' as you so nicely put it, working in garda stations.

You can, of course, get something noted at the station. However, if there is no law against it, then obviously garda hands are tied.

Sexual harassment is covered by many Employment Equality Acts from late 90s onwards.

To say it’s “not against the law” is wrong.

suicide_circus

One in ten Irish men have been raped? Really?

Gervais08

suicide_circus wrote: »

One in ten Irish men have been raped? Really?

If you use the current definition whereby having consensual sex when you really didn’t want to is rape then yeah.

I know a fair few lads who’ve just not been in the mood and had to perform to keep the Mrs happy. Other way round and Una Mulally and the wokerati would be calling for them to be named and shamed.

Gervais08

Gervais08 wrote: »

Sexual harassment is covered by many Employment Equality Acts from late 90s onwards.

To say it’s “not against the law” is wrong.

I did not say that.
It is not a criminal offence

El_Duderino 09

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The thing is ....for young women like me ...these ads don't actually CHANGE anything.

While the whole metoo thing was going on ....people were acting in the Irish media as if this was a new dawn. But i was actually experiencing the same kind of treatment from someone during all of that ...and NOTHING had changed it wasn't easier to have him reprimanded etc.



What good would this do? You think telling someone to **** off is going to make them stop?

And what if your abuser is an adult a teacher or a boss ??

Is the ad going to stop a predator ? NO

Is the ad going to make a bystander more likely to help the victim? No.

To say a very negative attitude.

The ad is about a wider approach to attitude and behaviour change. Attitude change usual happens before behaviour change and education/cognition usually happens before attitude change.

Sometimes the education part of it just needs people to explicitly think about the topic. It’s very easy to say that anyone would obviously stand up and say something if they saw someone being harassed, but it hasn’t happened in the past so why would it happen now? The difference is the fact that you’ve seen the ad and it’s obvious AFTER seeing the ad.

But, attitude change takes time. The obvious posters will object to this ad for lots of reason. They’ll say nobody needs to be told to stand against harassment, they’ll say it’s all just a big conspiracy against men, and eventually, they’ll accept that the content of the ad is pretty sound. But what they’ll never do is admit that they changed their mind. Instead they’ll say it was obvious all along and to run only vehemently disagreed with it for whatever reasons.

That’s how attitude change works. People deny it makes sense, then deny it’s necessary, then say they agreed with it all along and the ad was only telling them what they already knew. So they get to take take the p1ss out of the ad and never admit they learned anything from it. And that’s fine.

I don’t object to the ad. Seems sensible information.

bo0li5eumx12kp

bubblypop wrote: »

Perhaps you don't understand how the law works?
In order for gardai to bring a prosecution against someone, they must have broken a law.
Sexual harassment is not a criminal offence.
Sexual assault is.
This has nothing to do with anyone in the department of justice, or their 'grunts' as you so nicely put it, working in garda stations.

You can, of course, get something noted at the station. However, if there is no law against it, then obviously garda hands are tied.

I'll ignore the brain damaged tone to this post and focus on the single coherent point made.

Awareness, BEFORE the fact.

The setup currently is immensely restricted in this capacity.

If a predator is harassing and victim feels potential conflict about to arise - like said predator getting curb stomped in public - encourage reporting so Garda can chat with said predator, hopefully addressing the issue before it becomes a REAL issue.

This isn't "Minority Report" with Colin Farrell, mmmkay?

No one expects stern prosecutions to be handed down without any explicit crime having taken place, but specifically as to sexual harassment, it's a very intuitive ordeal - thus very foreseeable/predictable (predators often conduct a "grooming" period before going full assault on their prey) - thus police can either preclude this, or if a breach of etiquette is made subsequent to said report, they can THEN act with full authority.

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The system does not facilitate this currently - cause why?

Lack of awareness - and this is squarely the negligence of the justice department - probably for any number of reasons, not least of all trying to avoid sounding politically incorrect or homophobic.

Walk into any backwater district office around the country and 'splain to them that some dude is flirting with you and won't take no for an answer - then watch them hillbillys laugh in your face, tell you to man up, and stop wasting valuable police time.

Or better still, tell them you feel you may be forced to defend yourself physically in the face of a sexual predator - then YOU become their priority.

Lose-lose situation for harassment/assault victims as the system currently stands.

You have some attitude!
You expect gardai to go around warning people to stop flirting with you?!

There is nothing, nothing gardai can do.
Not minority report? That's right.
You should try to remember that when you are predicting future sexual assaults.

Jayson Shallow Pawnbroker

Jayson Shallow Pawnbroker wrote: »

The system does not facilitate this currently - cause why?

Lack of awareness - and this is squarely the negligence of the justice department - probably for any number of reasons, not least of all trying to avoid sounding politically incorrect or homophobic.

This is rubbish and in your head.

bo0li5eumx12kp

bubblypop wrote: »

You have some attitude!
You expect gardai to go around warning people to stop flirting with you?!

There is nothing, nothing gardai can do.

I expect them to have the foresight to preclude potential social conflicts initiated by deviant sexual predators and horny dudes that can't keep it in their pants, yes.

Nothing they can do?

lol, they're law enforcement homie - and their course of action is as intuitive as could be, but attitudes like yours is why there's failure by policy makers to implement - too stuck in the box - just like conventional culture and traditional norms demands.

"Man up!!".

Sure I'll man up, and then it's exactly the likes of yourself that will complain about lack of policing of social conflicts with some predator/groomer/creeper gets tossed in the lake.

Sexuality is at the heart of who we are, yet sexual deviancy can carry on unchecked, and policy is such that it must get to crises point (an actual violation/assault) before it even gets attention?

.....

Woah, that's a well thought out paradigm, lending itself to a forward thinking well regulated society right there.

:pac:

bo0li5eumx12kp

bubblypop wrote: »

This is rubbish and in your head.

No it's actually called "reality", and a good representation of what an advanced justice system we really have.

......

:pac: