EV home charger

Summer8181

What is best and cheapest EV charger to get without a grant. My boss has ordered me a new ID3 which I will collect first week of January.

I need an outside fast charger at my garage beside my house. As it is a company car, I believe I can't qualify for a grant. I would like to charge at 15+ miles per hour. I want a charger that has latest technology and will still be working/valid in 10 years time.

Has anyone got experience or what do you recommend? Would €500 get much?

Gumbo

I’m currently doing this for my dad.

The QUBEV from EVONESTOP appears to be the best value for a plug and charge unit. No fancy apps or any of that silly stuff.

Nothing much popping up here second hand in recent times.

QUBEV - EV CHARGING UNIT | TYPE 2 SOCKET | 32 AMP/7.2 KW | IP65 | (17th Edition) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07WW6ZWVN/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_UwD0Fb6NBSR9J

the_amazing_raisin

Well in terms of technology, the standard plug is a Type 2 which the ID.3 already has and that's unlikely to change anytime soon

The highest charging power you'll be able to support is probably 7kW, so go for that if you can. You'll be doing most of your charging overnight so speed doesn't matter as long you have a full battery in the morning

Depending on your company, they might pay for the cost of the charger, it's worth asking the question if you can.

Summer8181

How many km per hour will a 7w 32A give me. I like to go for a long spin over the weekend. Will it give me 20km charge per hour.

Is there a formula to work out how much it will charge per hour?

graememk

Summer8181 wrote: »

How many km per hour will a 7w 32A give me. I like to go for a long spin over the weekend. Will it give me 20km charge per hour.

Is there a formula to work out how much it will charge per hour?

Depends on how heavy your foot is!

We're currently averaging 17kwh/100km on our e niro.. --> 0.17kwh/km

So you'll get 7kwh in an hour -> 7 / 0.17, so roughly 40 km/hr

Realistically you should get the day night meter, and be charging at night anyway.

Summer8181

40km per hour sounds great. Could be home late and then an early start for 300km trip. Won't let it go below 20% so should be ok.

the_amazing_raisin

At 7kW it'll take around 8.5 hours to charge the battery from 0 to 100%

So of you arrive home at 9pm and plug in the car you'll still be ready to go at 6am of needed

As you say the car in unlikely to go below 20% so you should be fine with a 7kW charger

You should definitely switch over to a day/night meter if you don't already have one, it really makes an EV very economical to run.

For example, I used to drive around 12,000km per year in my Leaf (pre lockdown) and charge only at the night rate. The lost of electricity for the Leaf was less than €200 for the whole year

Also, will you be traveling long distances for business with the car? If so, it might be worth seeing if your employer will allow you to expense any public charging you require.

If they're paying for fuel for the other company cars then there's precedent there for you to ask, especially since you'll be saving them a lot of money

Summer8181

Can anyone recommend an ev charger for my house. Brand and installation company. I'm not eligible for grant.

Summer8181

Summer8181 wrote: »

40km per hour sounds great. Could be home late and then an early start for 300km trip. Won't let it go below 20% so should be ok.

Have you seen the id3 thread here ?
Some not getting near 300km on a full charge.

the_amazing_raisin

Summer8181 wrote: »

Can anyone recommend an ev charger for my house. Brand and installation company. I'm not eligible for grant.

That QUBEV one Gumbo spotted seems like a good bet and is probably the cheapest


Other basic chargers:


EO Mini
Wallbox
Rolec


In theory any electrician can install them, so feel free to shop around. Be sure to mention you aren't eligible for the grant, there's a bit of history of the installation costs suddenly going up by €600 when the grant came out

the_amazing_raisin

BrownFinger wrote: »

Have you seen the id3 thread here ?
Some not getting near 300km on a full charge.

To be fair it's the middle of winter and a lot of that can be solved by preheating while plugged in


There is a software bug with the ID.3 which means the battery heater doesn't switch on while the car is plugged in. They should hopefully resolve that soon which will fix a lot of the initial high consumption people are seeing

Gumbo

Summer8181 wrote: »

Can anyone recommend an ev charger for my house. Brand and installation company. I'm not eligible for grant.

What do you want?

Simple plug and charge?
All singing all dancing WiFi and fancy app control?

You won’t get cheaper new than the QUBEV above. Trust me, I’ve searched.
Any sparks can then install.

zg3409

Summer8181 wrote: »

What is best and cheapest EV charger to get without a grant. My boss has ordered me a new ID3 which I will collect first week of January.

I need an outside fast charger at my garage beside my house. As it is a company car, I believe I can't qualify for a grant. I would like to charge at 15+ miles per hour. I want a charger that has latest technology and will still be working/valid in 10 years time.

Has anyone got experience or what do you recommend? Would €500 get much?

You will be really struggling for 500 all in.
Practically any/all will give you 7kW and that's maximum house and car can take anyway.

7kW gives you 7kW per hour or 70kWh over 10 hours. Depending on your daily usage 3 or 4 hours should refill car overnight.

Things you might pay extra for:
-A tethered cable, saves you getting cable out of boot and putting wet cable back in boot for public charging

-Load sensing, needed if you have an instant shower like a triton or a heat pump.

There is also chargers with phone apps, so you can stop/start charger remotely or see energy used history

There are chargers that work best with solar panels others don't work great

Cheapest is installing a secondhand charger, but it might not last 10 years.

You need to shop around and haggle with local electrician. You are asking for specific supplier name but best deal would be local to where you live. Non EV specialists are generally cheaper but you run the risk they won't know what they are doing and miss out on setting it up correctly or not be able to support or stand by issues. Many electricians will refuse to install second hand parts and won't stand over any parts you bought yourself online. Typical average cost is 1000 these days, often more.

Summer8181

I would like to set time when it comes on. I don't need all singing and dancing but good ip and be able to upgrade software if required. Wifi probably be good feature.

the_amazing_raisin

Summer8181 wrote: »

I would like to set time when it comes on. I don't need all singing and dancing but good ip and be able to upgrade software if required. Wifi probably be good feature.

The car can do that for you, don't need to set a timer on the charger


Having said that, I decided to get a Zappi because among the other features it's able to set charging timers


That's a bit of a price jump and probably more than what you're looking for though

Gumbo

Summer8181 wrote: »

I would like to set time when it comes on. I don't need all singing and dancing but good ip and be able to upgrade software if required. Wifi probably be good feature.

Based on that then you need an all signing all dancing unit.
You won’t have any change from €1000 plus then after you install.
These are not in the same bracket as cheapest option per your first post.


Are you aware you can time your charge etc from the car?

yannakis

cruisey1987 wrote: »

The car can do that for you, don't need to set a timer on the charger


Having said that, I decided to get a Zappi because among the other features it's able to set charging timers


That's a bit of a price jump and probably more than what you're looking for though

How far are you from the consumer unit? Mind me asking how much you paid for the zappi + installation?

the_amazing_raisin

yannakis wrote: »

How far are you from the consumer unit? Mind me asking how much you paid for the zappi + installation?

So I've got an EO Mini at the moment, I'm swapping it for a Zappi in January when I get my ID.4

My consumer unit is in the middle of the house, it's around 15m cable run to the charger. Luckily there was an air duct nearby that allowed the cable to be brought the the outside. Then it runs through steel conduit along the side of the house to the charger.

I'd say the installation cost was around €700 as I recall. This was just when the grant came out so prices hadn't shot up just yet. The guy who did the job was the electrician who wired the house and they were still building houses nearby, so I think I got a slight discount for that

Gumbo

cruisey1987 wrote: »

So I've got an EO Mini at the moment, I'm swapping it for a Zappi in January when I get my ID.4

My consumer unit is in the middle of the house, it's around 15m cable run to the charger. Luckily there was an air duct nearby that allowed the cable to be brought the the outside. Then it runs through steel conduit along the side of the house to the charger.

I'd say the installation cost was around €700 as I recall. This was just when the grant came out so prices hadn't shot up just yet. The guy who did the job was the electrician who wired the house and they were still building houses nearby, so I think I got a slight discount for that

Are you gona sell the EO mini?

the_amazing_raisin

Gumbo wrote: »

Are you gona sell the EO mini?

I'm gonna sell it with my Leaf to try and get a quick sale, but if no one wants it then I'll sell it separately

slave1

I sold my Podpoint charge point few weeks back no hassle, and it qualifies for the grant too

Summer8181

Can I set the time charging from the car for VW app? If so what are the other benefits from getting a charger with app notifications.


Maybe I'm better going for a simple charger (maybe one that charges above average speed)

How long should I expect these chargers to last?

Does ID4 come with a charging lead?

Gumbo

Summer8181 wrote: »

Can I set the time charging from the car for VW app? If so what are the other benefits from getting a charger with app notifications.


Maybe I'm better going for a simple charger (maybe one that charges above average speed)

How long should I expect these chargers to last?

Does ID4 come with a charging lead?

Home chargers don’t charge above 7kw unless you have a 3phase connection which is extremely rare.

All you need is a 32a/7.2kw chargepoint and the associated wiring. Usually 6mm Sq and a 40a RCBO.

KCross

Summer8181 wrote: »

Can I set the time charging from the car for VW app?

Not yet. Coming in the next update for the ID series of cars in Q1 2021.

Summer8181 wrote: »

If so what are the other benefits from getting a charger with app notifications.

A charge point with app support is useful for remote monitoring and start/stop. Not required for everyday use.

And there's the geek factor... looking at the stats etc.

If apps turn you off then just stick with a basic charge point and utilise the cars timers alone.

Summer8181

Sorry for all the questions.

If I park my car in the drive at 8pm and plug in my charger. Can i set my timer in car to start charging at 12 am for example.


Would electrician have to be registered and provide cert to fit charger

slave1

Summer8181 wrote: »

Sorry for all the questions.

If I park my car in the drive at 8pm and plug in my charger. Can i set my timer in car to start charging at 12 am for example.


Would electrician have to be registered and provide cert to fit charger

Yes

Yes if you want to conform to €600 Grant rules

Summer8181

slave1 wrote: »

Yes

Yes if you want to conform to €600 Grant rules

Not eligible for grant. Might get cheap one. Might do as a second charger in later years if we have 2 cars

Gumbo

Summer8181 wrote: »

Sorry for all the questions.

If I park my car in the drive at 8pm and plug in my charger. Can i set my timer in car to start charging at 12 am for example.


Would electrician have to be registered and provide cert to fit charger

No problem with all the questions. Keep asking.
It’s a daunting process transition from ICE to EV and sometimes our replies might sound smart as we can forget that we may be dealing with new comers etc

So if your ever in doubt about an answer ask us to clarify. You won’t regret it

Answers

1. Yes. You can set the charge start time, charging speed (16a/32a) or a departure time and the car will work out when it needs to start charging itself.

2. Any electrician can install. In fact you can run the wiring,connect the charger to the wall and just let the sparks do the physical connections. Will need to be a registered sparks if getting grant.

the_amazing_raisin

Summer8181 wrote: »

Sorry for all the questions.

If I park my car in the drive at 8pm and plug in my charger. Can i set my timer in car to start charging at 12 am for example.


Would electrician have to be registered and provide cert to fit charger

With the ID.3 I believe that feature is coming in January, might be worth popping over to the ID.3 forum to double check

So in my experience electricians come in 2 types, certified cowboys, and just plain cowboys.

I would recommend getting a certified cowboy since at least in theory someone has gone and made sure they know the basics of what they're doing and if they screw it up you can take them to court afterwards

the_amazing_raisin

Summer8181 wrote: »

Can I set the time charging from the car for VW app? If so what are the other benefits from getting a charger with app notifications.


Maybe I'm better going for a simple charger (maybe one that charges above average speed)

How long should I expect these chargers to last?

Does ID4 come with a charging lead?

Yeah simple charger might be enough for your needs, particularly since you're ineligible for the grant

Both ID.3 and ID.4 come with both a 3 pin charger for charging from a regular socket, and a Type 2 charging cable

Be warned, the ID.3 only comes with a 16A charging cable. It can charge at full speed (11kW) on most public AC chargers, but if you plug it into a 7kW charger it'll only charge at 3.6kW

For this reason, I'd recommend getting a 7kW tethered charger for home. This has a cable built in and will allow you to charge at the full 7kW

KCross

"cruisey1987;115589079&#8221 wrote:

Be warned, the ID.3 only comes with a 16A charging cable. It can charge at full speed (11kW) on most public AC chargers, but if you plug it into a 7kW charger it'll only charge at 3.6kW

FYI I think that’s just the 1st edition. The spec of the series production cars has a 32A cable in there.

the_amazing_raisin

KCross wrote: »

FYI I think that’s just the 1st edition. The spec of the series production cars has a 32A cable in there.

Oh cool, yeah that was a bit cheeky of VW for the 1st edition

the_amazing_raisin

Summer8181 wrote: »

What is best and cheapest EV charger to get without a grant. My boss has ordered me a new ID3 which I will collect first week of January.

I need an outside fast charger at my garage beside my house. As it is a company car, I believe I can't qualify for a grant. I would like to charge at 15+ miles per hour. I want a charger that has latest technology and will still be working/valid in 10 years time.

Has anyone got experience or what do you recommend? Would €500 get much?

Out of curiosity, can you share the circumstances of how you're getting an ID.3 for a company car?

Did you pick out the ID.3 or did your boss just choose one?
I'm guessing this is your first EV, were you interested in EVs before this or were you basically told to get one?
What kind of work mileage would you be doing?
Do you have access to work chargers, and of not would your employer be open to getting them?
Have you agreed any kind of reimbursement for the cost of electricity for the car?

Summer8181

I was encouraged in the past but I felt the range wasn't there as I like to visit family at weekends. Also the BIK for 15k business miles on the Skoda is a killer.

How do you install the charger. I am looking at putting charger about 1 meter from my fuse/meter board. Is this an advantage?

the_amazing_raisin

Summer8181 wrote: »

I was encouraged in the past but I felt the range wasn't there as I like to visit family at weekends. Also the BIK for 15k business miles on the Skoda is a killer.

How do you install the charger. I am looking at putting charger about 1 meter from my fuse/meter board. Is this an advantage?

Thanks for that, it's hard to argue with the BIK on an EV that's for sure

So basically the electrician will need to install a dedicated circuit for the charger, it can't share a circuit with anything else.

They'll add a 32A fuse to the consumer unit and probably run 6mm2 cable from the fuse to the charger outside

From your description the consumer unit is just inside the front door, that'll make the cable run easy

If you have an electric shower, they might ask about installing a priority switch. A priority switch will switch off the charger when the power shower switches on.

A better solution might be to get a charger with a load balancer in it. This is monitor the demand on the house and reduce the charging current if needed to prevent the house from being overloaded

They might use armoured cable or encase it in steel ducting. You might want to encase it in white conduit indoors if you can to avoid any visible cables

Installing the charger itself is easy, drill some holes in the wall outside and attach the back plate. Wiring is the same as a plug, brown, blue and green/yellow

They might install an isolator switch outside near the charger. There seems to be some debate as to whether they're needed that close to the consumer unit, but basically if they decide to install one then you're getting one

A lot of armoured cable can come in different colours, brown, black and grey. That's for 3 phase supply, if they use that then make sure they sleeve the wires to match the conventional colours, otherwise of you replace it you won't know which wire is which

There's a special section of the wiring rules for EV chargers. If your electrician gives you a blank look when you ask about them then I'd recommend showing them the door