Lord Iveagh takes back the market.

emo72

Which I think is a nice thing to happen. I've always been impressed by the sense of community in there. If they make it back into a market, which is the plan, that would be a nice covered area to shop.

Here's a link

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2020/12/09/your-only-man-2/

wowy

I imagine that Martin Keane may try to put up a fight, but I hope to God that the Council don't try to contest the repossession or do anything to complicate matters (such as demanding to be involved in the regeneration, etc). The Council have mishandled this so badly for years that they need to completely step away and let Lord Iveagh get on with it.

L1011

DCCs legal advice was that Martin Keanes sub-lease had been voided anyway as he had delivery timelines that clearly weren't met. Quite likely he'd be throwing money in the fire trying to challenge this.

Bits_n_Bobs

Total abdication by DCC, a disgrace that its gone on so long. Lovely building and potential community amenity ruined while the old tivoli site across the road gets developed into another student accommodation/future slum with DCCs blessings

L1011

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

while the old tivoli site across the road gets developed into another student accommodation/future slum with DCCs blessings

Hotel.

Hubertj

Challenge for whoever new owner is cost of repair and renovation to make it usable. DCC should be held liable for allowing this to happen.

expectationlost

emo72 wrote: »

Which I think is a nice thing to happen. I've always been impressed by the sense of community in there. If they make it back into a market, which is the plan, that would be a nice covered area to shop.

Here's a link

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2020/12/09/your-only-man-2/

where he been for 20 years?

Kaybaykwah

expectationlost wrote: »

where he been for 20 years?

He was in a coma and kept on I.V. for all that time, I s'pose.

Atlantic Dawn

What Irish person would take the title Lord from a country which occupied his homeland?

Kaybaykwah

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What Irish person would take the title Lord from a country which occupied his homeland?

Jaysus Murphy?

Muahahaha

L1011 wrote: »

DCCs legal advice was that Martin Keanes sub-lease had been voided anyway as he had delivery timelines that clearly weren't met. Quite likely he'd be throwing money in the fire trying to challenge this.

yeah thought the same myself, would imagine Keane has lost several million in sunk costs already so legally challenging it would be throwing good money after bad. I wonder what went wrong during construction, he was confident of getting it done when the RTE news cameras showed up and it was full steam ahead. Did a surveyor get their calculations vastly wrong?

Id also wonder whats Lord Iveaghs plan here. Im doubting he wants to re-establish a market himself? They said it needs 13 millions spent on it which sounds like an investor would never get their money back.

Effects

Muahahaha wrote: »

I wonder what went wrong during construction, he was confident of getting it done when the RTE news cameras showed up and it was full steam ahead.

Nothing went wrong during construction, it never even got started.

He just couldn't get the funding together for it. He should have faced up to that, and got another investor on board to help him.

L1011

He spent the last few years (well, anything up to 12) hoping the State would fund it (but let him keep it) it seems.

Effects

emo72 wrote: »

Which I think is a nice thing to happen. I've always been impressed by the sense of community in there.

Everything that isn't a hotel is being pushed out of the area though.

Effects

L1011 wrote: »

He spent the last few years (well, anything up to 12) hoping the State would fund it (but let him keep it) it seems.

I haven't read all the articles, but I presume he still owns Mother Redcaps?

JPCN1

Why was Keane given a 500 year lease on it? Seems entirely excessive.

Delighted it's out of DCC's hands as they're a useless bunch...

Effects

JPCN1 wrote: »

Why was Keane given a 500 year lease on it? Seems entirely excessive.

Because when you plan to invest €30,000,000 you tend to want to make sure you can hang on to the place.

L1011

Effects wrote: »

I haven't read all the articles, but I presume he still owns Mother Redcaps?

I believe he does, yes.

I only found out a few months ago that the idea of the pub having been there since the date on the front was absolute bollox and it opened in ~1989 as a new pub. So it was already diddley-eye inauthentic from day one.

Muahahaha

Effects wrote: »

Nothing went wrong during construction, it never even got started.

He just couldn't get the funding together for it. He should have faced up to that, and got another investor on board to help him.

Thats ridiculous. Surely DCC should have asked for proof of funds before giving him the sub lease? Also I would have thought between the Fleet St car park, Gogartys and the Blooms hotel he would have more than enough funds to cover the 13 million cost himself.

Tom1991

Muahahaha wrote: »

Thats ridiculous. Surely DCC should have asked for proof of funds before giving him the sub lease? Also I would have thought between the Fleet St car park, Gogartys and the Blooms hotel he would have more than enough funds to cover the 13 million cost himself.

Problem is your talking about rational people making rational decisions.
Unfortunately Martin Keane isn't a rational person and when I worked in the hospitality trade there's 101 stories about him doing something mad.
Few years ago he got into it with a Guinness delivery driver over half size kegs being thrown into Gogartys and he ended up sticking the head on the driver over it. There's no way this thing isnt going to be dragged out further which is a shame as that area instead of being regenerated is going to end up walled in with hotels and other tourist gimmicks.

Muahahaha

yeah familiar with him myself, he's got a short fuse and Gogartys has a lot of staff turnover. But he has been milking several cash cows in Temple Bar for over three decades so I just would have thought he would be able to complete that market on his own. Gogartys alone must be one of the most profitable pubs per square foot anywhere in the country, its got a constant stream of tourists willing to pay 8 quid a pint and 20 for an Irish stew. Who knows though, maybe he went mad during the boom on other stuff and isnt as wealthy as what the Temple Bar properties would suggest. Anyone know is it true he is or was a black belt in karate or is that urban myth?

Effects

Muahahaha wrote: »

Thats ridiculous. Surely DCC should have asked for proof of funds before giving him the sub lease?

You're talking about celtic tiger boom times.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Anyone know is it true he is or was a black belt in karate or is that urban myth?

I seriously doubt he's even done any training in karate, let alone holds a black belt.

JPCN1

Effects wrote: »

Because when you plan to invest €30,000,000 you tend to want to make sure you can hang on to the place.

Sure, but 500 years or about 15 generations is excessive.

How ironic is it that the solicitor's name is Smithwick!

Effects

JPCN1 wrote: »

Sure, but 500 years or about 15 generations is excessive.

Is it? Aren't leases for land that a lot of houses are built on based on similar time frames?

It's essentially letting the person own the land in perpetuity.

expectationlost

Muahahaha wrote: »

Id also wonder whats Lord Iveaghs plan here. Im doubting he wants to re-establish a market himself? They said it needs 13 millions spent on it which sounds like an investor would never get their money back.

Edward Guiness is repossession it on the basis that it remain a a market, sure Keane's plan would have retained that building as a posh market/restaurants.... pub?

However, there is a "reversionary" clause in the agreement that it would revert to the Guinness family if it was not developed as a market.

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2020/1208/1183071-iveagh-market/

Caranica

expectationlost wrote: »

Edward Guiness is repossession it on the basis that it remain a a market, sure Keane's plan would have retained that building as a posh market/restaurants.... pub?


https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2020/1208/1183071-iveagh-market/

The key surely is that it wasn't developed as a market and two planning permissions have lapsed and a third one won't be forthcoming

So the Iveagh Trust had the foresight to put in the reversionary clause in 1906 while DCC sign a 500 year lease with a funny character and end up in and out of the courts for the best part of two decades.


Good on Lord Iveagh.

expectationlost

Caranica wrote: »

The key surely is that it wasn't developed as a market and two planning permissions have lapsed and a third one won't be forthcoming

well he said the main building was going to be developed as market (although people had fears it would end up being a pub)

expectationlost

cisk wrote: »

So the Iveagh Trust had the foresight to put in the reversionary clause in 1906 while DCC sign a 500 year lease with a funny character and end up in and out of the courts for the best part of two decades.


Good on Lord Iveagh.

wheres he been for 20 years?

is_that_so

JPCN1 wrote: »

Sure, but 500 years or about 15 generations is excessive.

That would ensure a public market for that length of time, which is what they always wanted. Keane's plan seemed to be a lot of hotels (and pubs!) with a little market.

expectationlost

expectationlost wrote: »

wheres he been for 20 years?

I'm not versed on the legal side of it but i guess it couldn't be invoked unless a clear failure of the 1906 agreement was shown. 20 years in grand scheme of things isn't that long.

BowWow

Deleted User wrote: »

How ironic is it that the solicitor's name is Smithwick!

IIRC he's a member of the Kilkenny Smithwick brewing family and has acted for the Guinness family in the past.

Bits_n_Bobs

L1011 wrote: »

Hotel.

I amend; aparthotel/future slum

whisky_galore

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What Irish person would take the title Lord from a country which occupied his homeland?

I'd rather a Lord than a slumlord.

expectationlost

cisk wrote: »

I'm not versed on the legal side of it but i guess it couldn't be invoked unless a clear failure of the 1906 agreement was shown. 20 years in grand scheme of things isn't that long.

it is the building is near failing down

bocaman

I regularly pass this building. The potential for developing a food market is there for all to see. However the building will have to undergo major renovations before this becomes a reality.

L1011

L1011 wrote: »

DCCs legal advice was that Martin Keanes sub-lease had been voided anyway as he had delivery timelines that clearly weren't met. Quite likely he'd be throwing money in the fire trying to challenge this.

Well, we shall soon find out :cool:

The Business Post today tells us that he has lodged a high court action against Lord Iveagh and DCC.

It also mentions an architectural report expressing concern over the deterioration and damage to the property.

neris

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjqvIcFdfdo

At 2.45 bit on ivegah markets