7 year planning exemption

JBF86

Hi all, just wondering. What is the situation with planning and a mobile home, how long are you allowed to stay on the site once planning is granted?

Is there anywhere I can find legislation in regards to this?

sydthebeat

JBF86 wrote: »

Hi all, just wondering. What is the situation with planning and a mobile home, how long are you allowed to stay on the site once planning is granted?

Is there anywhere I can find legislation in regards to this?

you need planning for the mobile home

if you want to do this, include they mobile home in your planning application for the house

The council will condition that you can live in the mobile home until the house is ready for occupation

JBF86

sydthebeat wrote: »

you need planning for the mobile home

if you want to do this, include they mobile home in your planning application for the house

The council will condition that you can live in the mobile home until the house is ready for occupation

This isn't for me. There is a mobile home near where I live. The person occupying the mobile home for the past 10 years is renting the .5 acre site and has lots of wild animals on the site. These animals are continuously breaking into nearby land and damaging crops and property. The resident won't acknowledge or do anything about it. There are over 15 goats on the plot, obviously no food and he has broken the fencing several times between our lands so the goats can escape. The situation is now rapidly spiraling out of control as goats size increases. He and his animals also defecate into a nearby stream as there's no toilet on site. Has also been cutting down trees in the community that is in a SAC, but unless they physcially catch him in the act then there's nothing they can do despite witnessing the chopped trees on his land.

What I'm wondering is, with no waste or electricity on site, how long are you permitted to have the caravan?

JBF86

Anyone know how long you're allowed to live in a caravan for without water, toilet or electricity? This is within planning permission laws.

sydthebeat

JBF86 wrote: »

What I'm wondering is, with no waste or electricity on site, how long are you permitted to have the caravan?

your not allowed to be living in a caravan on site without permission

JBF86

sydthebeat wrote: »

your not allowed to be living in a caravan on site without permission

The had planning permission initially, what I’m wondering is has it lapsed or what conditions must be met when planning is granted? Surely it’s not indefinite once planning is granted?

Gumbo

JBF86 wrote: »

The had planning permission initially, what I’m wondering is has it lapsed or what conditions must be met when planning is granted? Surely it’s not indefinite once planning is granted?

Not permanent.
Planning was most likely granted for temp use during the construction process of a permanent dwelling.

JBF86

Gumbo wrote: »

Not permanent.
Planning was most likely granted for temp use during the construction process of a permanent dwelling.

Turns out planning was never granted. They’re renting the site and put a caravan on it.

What would be the best way forward here? I think the county council will do very little, should I bypass and appoint a solicitor ?

sydthebeat

JBF86 wrote: »

Turns out planning was never granted. They’re renting the site and put a caravan on it.

What would be the best way forward here? I think the county council will do very little, should I bypass and appoint a solicitor ?

you cant by pass the council, thats the route you have to take...

but dont expect a speedy resolution:

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/couple-have-two-years-to-leave-house-built-in-breach-of-planning-laws-1018884.html

JBF86

sydthebeat wrote: »

you cant by pass the council, thats the route you have to take...

but dont expect a speedy resolution:

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/couple-have-two-years-to-leave-house-built-in-breach-of-planning-laws-1018884.html

That’s disappointing and crazy. This individual wouldn’t have the means to bring a case to the high court. The caravan has been basically left derelict. It’s windows have been forced in or out as is probably the case in this instance. There’s animals caged up in there for 24 hours a day, dogs that haven’t been let outside for months and months. Like I mentioned it’s an incredible situation and I can’t see any judge looking favourably on the fact he has cut locals fencing repeatedly so his goats can have access to their lands.

The problem may be the councils inaction or inefficiency. I can’t see them moving too quick on this.

sydthebeat

JBF86 wrote: »

That’s disappointing and crazy. This individual wouldn’t have the means to bring a case to the high court. The caravan has been basically left derelict. It’s windows have been forced in or out as is probably the case in this instance. There’s animals caged up in there for 24 hours a day, dogs that haven’t been let outside for months and months. Like I mentioned it’s an incredible situation and I can’t see any judge looking favourably on the fact he has cut locals fencing repeatedly so his goats can have access to their lands.

The problem may be the councils inaction or inefficiency. I can’t see them moving too quick on this.

sounds like you might have more luck with ISPCA

JBF86

Hi all,

I’m just reading more about planning and I’ve come across a 7 year exemption. Where basically if no action is taken within 7 years they can’t enforce anything?

Anyone know anything about this? And if it applies to a dwelling that never sought planning to begin with.

JimmyMW

JBF86 wrote: »

Hi all,

I’m just reading more about planning and I’ve come across a 7 year exemption. Where basically if no action is taken within 7 years they can’t enforce anything?

Anyone know anything about this? And if it applies to a dwelling that never sought planning to begin with.

Enforcement action cannot be taken, i believe this ties in with the statute of limitations. However the house would still have no planning therefore cannot be sold only for cash etc, give us the back story on this.

muffler

sydthebeat wrote: »

sounds like you might have more luck with ISPCA

+1


@ the OP ...
If you feel there is animal cruelty you report it.
If you feel there is criminal damage you report it.
if you feel there is unauthorised development you report it.

Different bodies / agencies are there to deal with all those matters.

Doop

As above, the exemption is from enforcement only it does not mean the house/extension is now in compliance.

sydthebeat

JBF86 wrote: »

Hi all,

I’m just reading more about planning and I’ve come across a 7 year exemption. Where basically if no action is taken within 7 years they can’t enforce anything?

Anyone know anything about this? And if it applies to a dwelling that never sought planning to begin with.

its the statute of limitations on the planing authority enacting enforcement action on unauthorised development

however its up to the property owner to prove that the development is in existence over 7 years

JBF86

sydthebeat wrote: »

its the statute of limitations on the planing authority enacting enforcement action on unauthorised development

however its up to the property owner to prove that the development is in existence over 7 years

I’m sure that they may have photographs to prove it.

Person rented a small plot on less than .5 of an acre, put a caravan on it without any planning and has year on year become more problematic. The place is about as much of a mess as you can imagine, rubbish and litter everywhere, the caravan is comepletly wrecked and there’s no toilet meaning the nearby stream is used as a toilet. It’s reached a stage now where his goats, which numbered in 2, 3 years ago are now more than 15 and are coming onto our lands and destroying trees and property. He continually cuts or breaks our fencing so they can access it and nothing has been done so far.

What is the best course of action ?

Gumbo

JBF86 wrote: »

I’m sure that they may have photographs to prove it.

Person rented a small plot on less than .5 of an acre, put a caravan on it without any planning and has year on year become more problematic. The place is about as much of a mess as you can imagine, rubbish and litter everywhere, the caravan is comepletly wrecked and there’s no toilet meaning the nearby stream is used as a toilet. It’s reached a stage now where his goats, which numbered in 2, 3 years ago are now more than 15 and are coming onto our lands and destroying trees and property. He continually cuts or breaks our fencing so they can access it and nothing has been done so far.

What is the best course of action ?

Make complaint to planning enforcement about the structure and use of the land.
Make complaint to Gardai about the criminal act of trespass and property damage. Try get evidence.

JBF86

Gumbo wrote: »

Make complaint to planning enforcement about the structure and use of the land.
Make complaint to Gardai about the criminal act of trespass and property damage. Try get evidence.

Is there anything the county council can do if it’s over 7 years?

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=115557677

JBF86

Calahonda52 wrote: »

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=115557677

I’m not sure if that does or doesn’t answer my question haha

Basically, does the 7 year rule apply if planning was never sought? If it does then what or how can you have this addressed?

The issue is quite serious as there’s rats, goats, property destruction, it’s also on a dangerous corner that has caused quite a few close calls and one recently where a mother and her two children were nearly knocked down.

I’d love to say we’re all just fussy neighbours but we’ve put up and been accommodating for long enough and it’s only a matter of time before something more serious happens because of the place

sydthebeat

JBF86 wrote: »

Basically, does the 7 year rule apply if planning was never sought? If it does then what or how can you have this addressed?

yes, its specifically there for when planning is not sought

if planning was sought but things done differently than different time periods apply.

like i said to you already, its up to the owners to prove its there more than 7 years, so you can start the procedure yourself to notify the council of the unauthorised development.

if the property has no proper sewerage, heating, running water etc the council can use other powers outside of the planning act to cease the development

JBF86 wrote: »

The issue is quite serious as there’s rats, goats, property destruction,

thats not a planning matter,
thats a civil matter you need to get either the guards or ISPCA or both involved

JBF86 wrote: »

, it’s also on a dangerous corner that has caused quite a few close calls and one recently where a mother and her two children were nearly knocked down.

thats a matter for the council and one id be onto them straight away over

JBF86

Thanks a million for the replies.

I’ve actually come across photos that prove it’s only been 5 years since he moved in. Was sure it was just over 7.

There’s an issue that neighbours believe the council won’t do anything as it means the person will essentially be homeless. Seems a bit mad to me, if they don’t act surely it sets a precedence for others to just do the same thing.

I’m sure we come across as fussy neighbours but the situation is spiralling out of control and there’s been instances of intimidation on elderly farmers close by also. There’s no real resolution and to add to the problem, the owners of the site that he is renting from arent living in the country and haven’t been for 30 odd years.

Calahonda52

unless the pics re digitally certified they prove nothing

Car99

Calahonda52 wrote: »

unless the pics re digitally certified they prove nothing

Would google earth be allowable or street view?

JBF86

Calahonda52 wrote: »

unless the pics re digitally certified they prove nothing

Ok, how can I get them certified? I’m sure it would be up to him to prove he was there longer. Which he won’t obviously.

JBF86

Car99 wrote: »

Would google earth be allowable or street view?

Google earth predates when he moved in so it doesn’t prove anything either way.

sydthebeat

JBF86 wrote: »

Ok, how can I get them certified? I’m sure it would be up to him to prove he was there longer. Which he won’t obviously.

its not up to you to prove anything

JBF86

sydthebeat wrote: »

its not up to you to prove anything

Ok, that’s good. I don’t have the greatest faith in our county council to actually enforce their own laws as it’ll mean they’ll have to deal with him.

BryanF

JBF86 wrote: »

Hi all, just wondering. What is the situation with planning and a mobile home, how long are you allowed to stay on the site once planning is granted?

Is there anywhere I can find legislation in regards to this?

OP one post per topic. Thanks

Your two threads have been merged

BryanF

Calahonda52 wrote: »

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=115557677

use the report function please

JBF86

BryanF wrote: »

OP one post per topic. Thanks

Your two threads have been merged

Apologies. Wasn’t trying to spam

jamesf85

Similar situation where we are. Local county council weren’t keen on expelling the individual as he had nowhere else to go despite the fact he had been prosecuted for minor assault on a neighbour. The place was a disgrace and he had no planning permission whatsoever. Just set up shop on a piece of commonage.

There was an issue with the 7 year rule, he was only in the place 2 years but owned the caravan for 10 or 15 and that was sufficent evidence for the county council that he had been there for over 7.

He has since made 2 bogus personal injury claims against local farmers and was awarded in excess of 10k with both. He also doesn’t work and I believe he’s asked the council for a new caravan if one neighbour is to be believed.

JBF86

jamesf85 wrote: »

Similar situation where we are. Local county council weren’t keen on expelling the individual as he had nowhere else to go despite the fact he had been prosecuted for minor assault on a neighbour. The place was a disgrace and he had no planning permission whatsoever. Just set up shop on a piece of commonage.

There was an issue with the 7 year rule, he was only in the place 2 years but owned the caravan for 10 or 15 and that was sufficent evidence for the county council that he had been there for over 7.

He has since made 2 bogus personal injury claims against local farmers and was awarded in excess of 10k with both. He also doesn’t work and I believe he’s asked the council for a new caravan if one neighbour is to be believed.

I’d nearly swear it’s the same person only the guy in our situation isn’t on commonage. There have been two “personal injury” claims too.

The part I don’t get re the seven year rule is this -

“ A statute of limitation (the so-called “seven year rule”) means that action cannot be taken against an unauthorised development after a seven year period has passed. Until recently, this rule applied equally to all types of unauthorised developments.” - that would suggest it’s a bit like squatters rights and once 7 years are up then you’re free to go.

But then it says - “ Irrespective of the time that has elapsed, enforcement action can still be taken where a person has failed to satisfy a planning condition concerning the use of land.” - what does that mean? I’m reading that as, well it doesn’t actually matter, which makes no sense.

The Continental Op

JBF86 wrote: »

...

But then it says - “ Irrespective of the time that has elapsed, enforcement action can still be taken where a person has failed to satisfy a planning condition concerning the use of land.” - what does that mean? I’m reading that as, well it doesn’t actually matter, which makes no sense.

afaik what that means is if you apply for planning permission get it and deviate from it then you cannot rely on the 7 year rule. So not applicable in this case.

muffler

JBF86 wrote: »

But then it says - “ Irrespective of the time that has elapsed, enforcement action can still be taken where a person has failed to satisfy a planning condition concerning the use of land.” - what does that mean? I’m reading that as, well it doesn’t actually matter, which makes no sense.

Im a little sceptical about this thread.

If you were serious in getting replies then you would have seen that point covered in post no 22 by sydthebeat. I think you should employ a planning consultant and a solicitor

JBF86

muffler wrote: »

Im a little sceptical about this thread.

If you were serious in getting replies then you would have seen that point covered in post no 22 by sydthebeat. I think you should employ a planning consultant and a solicitor

Yes I’m clear I’m my side. As the development is there less than 7 years. I was just wondering about the 7 year ruling though as it seems bonkers that you could live somewhere without planning and if it’s over 7 years then you’re untouchable. That’s the craziest thing I’ve ever heard.

Muahahaha

JBF86 wrote: »

That’s disappointing and crazy. This individual wouldn’t have the means to bring a case to the high court. The caravan has been basically left derelict. It’s windows have been forced in or out as is probably the case in this instance. There’s animals caged up in there for 24 hours a day, dogs that haven’t been let outside for months and months. Like I mentioned it’s an incredible situation and I can’t see any judge looking favourably on the fact he has cut locals fencing repeatedly so his goats can have access to their lands.

The problem may be the councils inaction or inefficiency. I can’t see them moving too quick on this.

OP as its this bad please call your local ISPCA, they will come out immediately to access the situation. Those animals are likely slowing starving to death, theres been several cases lately of people keeping masses of animals and they just cannot look after them or feed them properly.

JBF86

Muahahaha wrote: »

OP as its this bad please call your local ISPCA, they will come out immediately to access the situation. Those animals are likely slowing starving to death, theres been several cases lately of people keeping masses of animals and they just cannot look after them or feed them properly.

We have. Nothing has been done. They won’t even enter the property. Dogs are locked inside the caravan 24/7 so there’s no way they can see them, only hear them.

This is the road we went down for the first couple of years. The mess of the place and the dangers the enterance poses. We didn’t want to alert planning because it may have meant the man would be out on the street and a lot of neighbours didn't want that. But he’s refusing to clean up and actually throws his rubbish onto peoples adjacent land.

The straw that broke the camels back was his constant pushing back of his boundary fence to try and claim more land from neighbours and when a wall and fence was erected to keep him from doing that and his goats out, he proceeded to cut the fences so the goats could still access. Now they’ve every tree in and around peoples homes killed.

sydthebeat

JBF86 wrote: »

..., he proceeded to cut the fences so the goats could still access. Now they’ve every tree in and around peoples homes killed.

thats criminal damage

time to stop being so softly, softly around this guy

JBF86

sydthebeat wrote: »

thats criminal damage

time to stop being so softly, softly around this guy

I know. But how do we prove it. He does it late at night we think.

We’ve had the forestries out because he’s been cutting trees on other peoples land and it’s a special area of conservation but again they need to catch him in the act.

As I’m trying these messages I can imagine it seems like we’re this unreasonable community. When it couldn’t be further from the case. Other people have moved into the area and we’d all now consider them friends. Initially people used to let him charge his phones/tablet at their houses but he would then go crazy if they went to the shops and the house wasn’t left open for him so that quickly stopped. We’d bring him dinner and give him lifts but again that stopped after one person gave him a lift and he put in a personal injury claim that he hurt himself getting out of their car.

He’s fallen out with everyone around him. CIE won’t let him on the bus even. It’s an insane scenario. Again all of theirs would be ok and his own business if it didn’t impact the whole community so much. But we’re afraid the council won’t do anything as it’ll mean he has nowhere else to go. The goat situation where they are now multiplying rapidly is distressing

sydthebeat

I'll say it again, YOU don't need to prove anything!!

Who benefits from a hole in the fence, and who's property was damaged by the goats. The gardai aren't stupid.

Having the guards around on his plane enough times should be enough to get him to cop on and take care of his property... If not the guards can set him into procedures to assist him

JBF86

sydthebeat wrote: »

I'll say it again, YOU don't need to prove anything!!

Who benefits from a hole in the fence, and who's property was damaged by the goats. The gardai aren't stupid.

Having the guards around on his plane enough times should be enough to get him to cop on and take care of his property... If not the guards can set him into procedures to assist him

There’s a guard living in the neighbourhood and it doesn’t make a difference. They can issue him with a summons to appear in court but will barely be with the hassle. Most he might get is a fine and again Gardai have said, unless we can prove he done it. We suggested that we set up cameras near it to catch him and they said he’ll do it at night and then say it was the goats and who can prove otherwise. Even though goats can’t use cutters.

jamesf85

JBF86 wrote: »

There’s a guard living in the neighbourhood and it doesn’t make a difference. They can issue him with a summons to appear in court but will barely be with the hassle. Most he might get is a fine and again Gardai have said, unless we can prove he done it. We suggested that we set up cameras near it to catch him and they said he’ll do it at night and then say it was the goats and who can prove otherwise. Even though goats can’t use cutters.

Sadly this rings true in our community too. Said person was seen vandalising property and nothing was done. Guards wouldn’t prosecute as it would go nowhere. Environmental wardens didn’t execute any of the powers bestowed on them either in relation to dumping.

Incredible really that the council would stop me or you if we built without planning, but these people can do as they like.

It’d be interesting to know if you could take legal action against the county council for not administering the law, particular in your case if the site is of danger and someone actually gets hurt?

BryanF

OPs query has been answered. Thread closed. OP, contact mods if you wish to discuss.

But this is the construction & planning forum, we’ll leave neighbouring disputes to some other discussion forum.