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Self charging hybrid

  • 07-12-2020 7:02pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 29 jmike72


    Hi,

    I have a Toyota Auris Hybrid and thinking in switching it, but don't want another Toyota (having issues with Toyota Ireland, so want to avoid them in the future).

    I've made accounts and full electric is not an option as I live in apartment and can't have home charging, and charging 100% on the public charging network is expensive.

    This leaves me the Hybrid option, but don't want a plug-in Hybrid and looking at a self charging with similar technology as the Auris or Prius.

    What are the options for self charging hybrids? Found a few, but they're all plug-in and only from Toyota I'm finding self charging hybrids.

    I drive some 60km a day, mostly city with a lot of stop and go that is great for regeneration of energy.

    Thanks,
    Mike


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,616 ✭✭✭✭ wonski


    There are no self charging hybrids.

    Toyota made it up tbh.

    Self charging as in recovering some energy while braking or using a petrol engine to charge it.

    It's marketing at its best ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 jmike72


    wonski wrote: »
    There are no self charging hybrids.

    Toyota made it up tbh.

    Self charging as in recovering some energy while braking or using a petrol engine to charge it.

    It's marketing at its best ;)

    Yes, I know that, but easy to say "self charging" than to say a car that "charges batteries while breaking, or going downhill or using extra energy from the petrol engine" ;)

    Question is the same, what non plug-in hybrids are out there?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,103 ✭✭✭ kanuseeme


    Hyundai ioniq, EV, plugin and normal hybrid. I dislike the term self charging, might as well call petrol or diesel, self charging juice.

    Honda.

    lexus.

    Ford mondeo.

    Kia.

    Here use this link, and change make to see whats on offer , not all will be available here, you can import. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?sort=price-asc&postcode=ls298jn&radius=1500&make=KIA&include-delivery-option=on&year-from=2019&year-to=2020&maximum-mileage=50000&fuel-type=Hybrid%20%E2%80%93%20Petrol%2FElectric


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭ 80sDiesel


    Nissan quashai is coming out with a self charging in the truest sense as the engine only charges the battery.

    Available in the note in Japan but not sure if any have been imported secondhand here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭ sumo12


    The "self-charging" thing is marketing yes, but most likely borne out of a public survey Toyota did a couple of years back. The results of which were overwhelmingly that the public thought you had to plug the car in. Once people heard "battery" they assumed it would require external charging.....


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,271 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    If it’s self charging, why do you need to keep putting petrol in it???


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,913 ✭✭✭ zg3409


    If buying new plug in hybrids are often cheaper than non plug in hybrids due to the grant structure being higher for plug in variant. Plug in variant also self charges, as do full battery cars with no engine. Many suppliers no longer sell non plug in as they would work out more expensive and no one would buy them.

    I would push for apartment charging if you can as you might save 1000 per year on 60km per day round trip commute if you went full battery.

    If not you can get a plug in hybrids and never plug it in. In fact they typically have a bigger battery than most hybrids.

    Buying brand new will never be a great deal, better to go used.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 jmike72


    From what I've seen, plug-in hybrid is more expensive than non-plugin. For example Hyundai IONIQ is cheaper in hybrid non plugin version (prices from UK as it's not sold in Ireland from what I see) and even the plug-in hybrid is more expensive in Ireland than the full electric version. UK prices for non plug-in hybrid are £23840, plug-in hybrid at £30250 and full electric £30950. In Ireland, plug-in €34400 and electric at €32249.

    If not charging the plug-in hybrid on a daily basis, it will be used like a non plug-in hybrid, so considering the extra cost of it, it doesn't make sense financially.

    Advantage of plug-in hybrid would be if i could plug it to a home socket to charge, but that's out of question where I live, as extension cables would need to pass through the pathway and if today I can park at 5mts from my home door, tomorrow might need to park at 50mts because there's no reserved parking spaces.


  • Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭ sumo12


    Gumbo wrote: »
    If it’s self charging, why do you need to keep putting petrol in it???

    You're missing my point - if you're replying to me - the assumption was that the battery required external charging, it doesn't, it charges itself. Yes it uses fuel and yes it regenerates energy, but you don't have to plug it in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    What's your current annual fuel bill??


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    jmike72 wrote: »
    I've made accounts and full electric is not an option as I live in apartment and can't have home charging...........
    I drive some 60km a day, mostly city with a lot of stop and go that is great for regeneration of energy.

    Just one public charge, for approx one hour, would cover your 300km commute per week, in many of today's full electric BEVs & still be close to 50% cheaper to fuel than a hybrid.

    300km @ 15kWh/100km = 45kWh x €0.30 = €13.50
    Hybrid @ 5l/100km = 15l petrol @ €1.35l = €20.25

    There's not much in it but if you are keeping the car for a number of years & envisage moving, where you could have home charging available in future, it could well be a better investment going full EV now, while the grants are available etc.

    Obviously inconvenient but there are slow AC points available too at the likes of Ikea (Decathlon), Lidls, shopping centers (Tesco), council offices, car parks etc., many of which are free.

    I wouldn't normally recommend going full BEV without home charging but 60km is nothing & charging once a week is a very minor inconvenience considering the plethora of other benefits you'd derive from driving a BEV.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 jmike72


    Kramer wrote: »
    Just one public charge, for approx one hour, would cover your 300km commute per week, in many of today's full electric BEVs & still be close to 50% cheaper to fuel than a hybrid.

    300km @ 15kWh/100km = 45kWh x €0.30 = €13.50
    Hybrid @ 5l/100km = 15l petrol @ €1.35l = €20.25

    Your account show a €6.75 saving per 100km, meaning €1053 per year. Considering the price difference between hybrid and EV, will take more than 7 or 8 years to recover from the extra cost of the EV...

    With my current hybrid I do around 4.5l/100, so the difference would be even less.

    As mentioned on my initial post, full EV doesn't compensate unless I could charge it at home, which I can't, and I'm not buying a new house with driveway or garage any time soon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,594 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    sumo12 wrote: »
    You're missing my point - if you're replying to me - the assumption was that the battery required external charging, it doesn't, it charges itself.

    its easy to charge when the battery is so small.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭ innrain


    sumo12 wrote: »
    You're missing my point - if you're replying to me - the assumption was that the battery required external charging, it doesn't, it charges itself. Yes it uses fuel and yes it regenerates energy, but you don't have to plug it in.
    We'll here is the thing it is not. And I don't want to be smug or otherwise. It was repeated here so many times.

    The batteries in these types of cars are charging themselves as the Munchausen baron saved himself from drawing by pulling his own hair. In physics one of the most important rules is that the energy cannot be created or destroyed. Just transferred to other systems or other forms of energy.

    PHEVs do the same thing as HEVs and more, they can also charge themselves when parked and plugged. Also their greater use of EV motor makes them more efficient than their older sisters HEVs. Because at the end of the day the whole discussion is around efficiency. Defined as the ratio of useful output to total input. There is no self-generation of anything.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,632 ✭✭✭ zilog_jones


    jmike72 wrote: »
    I have a Toyota Auris Hybrid and thinking in switching it, but don't want another Toyota (having issues with Toyota Ireland, so want to avoid them in the future).

    What problems have you been having with Toyota, if you don't mind sharing?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,925 ✭✭✭✭ Calahonda52


    innrain wrote: »
    We'll here is the thing it is not. And I don't want to be smug or otherwise. It was repeated here so many times.

    The batteries in these types of cars are charging themselves as the Munchausen baron saved himself from drawing by pulling his own hair. In physics one of the most important rules is that the energy cannot be created or destroyed. Just transferred to other systems or other forms of energy.

    PHEVs do the same thing as HEVs and more, they can also charge themselves when parked and plugged. Also their greater use of EV motor makes them more efficient than their older sisters HEVs. Because at the end of the day the whole discussion is around efficiency. Defined as the ratio of useful output to total input. There is no self-generation of anything.

    The whole discussion is about getting into the lower road tax bands, it has very little to do with efficiency since the basis on which the over all "mpg" is a fraud


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭ innrain


    The whole discussion is about getting into the lower road tax bands, it has very little to do with efficiency since the basis on which the over all "mpg" is a fraud
    I wouldn't necessarily say that the research team behind the hybrid tech would care much about the tax bands. I do think they've worked hard to tune the engine-motor system to optimal values. From this point of view for me it is not a fraud. It is a more efficient system compared to the conventional engine. The marketing spin on the other hand it is another story. But if we learn to dig deeper and understand what are they after we can judge for ourselves.

    Here Toyota goes after mild hybrids (48V batteries) which a very easy fight for them. I don't accept some of the terminology used but the main idea is that their can recuperate more due to the size (capacity) of the battery and electric motor. Making them more efficient. But the same argument can be done for the PHEVs against HEVs and furthermore BEVs.

    Now there is a problem with tax bands for PHEVs as the CO2 levels are estimated and do not reflect the reality. While I think this can be resolved by making users to pay based on their actual pollution levels no manufacturer proposed that (or I'm not aware of). But that is a different topic.


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