How do you feel about paying tax? US/Ireland comparison

Elite Genetics

I'm sure you're enjoying that €2250 annual bill for your M3. Here in the good old Texas there is no such thing cause 'merica, also no insurance required in Virginia. I guess we need to save the environment so pay up.

In all seriousness, even if you're an enthusiast it must be tear inducing to pay that much unless you're loaded to the point that it doesn't matter.

endacl

Honestly.

Doesn’t bother me.

elperello

Kills me.

kirving

Elite Genetics wrote: »

, also no insurance required in Virginia. I guess we need to save the environment so pay up.

As much as I don't like paying it, I'm very glad that insurance in Ireland is mandatory and generally has liability limits in the tens of millions.

PsychoPete

I've a friend from Eastern Europe, he has a 3.5 S class out there and it's less than €100 a year to tax

Isambard

so long as everyone else pays the same, no problem. Thing is though you can expect huge tax rises post Covid

endacl

Elite Genetics wrote: »

Here in the good old Texas there is no such thing cause 'merica, also no insurance required in Virginia.

Id say you’ve never been closer to Virginia than Cavan town...

3d4life

Cowboys dont need insurance

Andrewf20

I think I could stomach up to 3.0 litre tax in old money, i.e. 1494eu, but 1809eu for 3.2 and above is hard going in my estimation.

To put a positive spin on things, big taxes are a great lever for pushing down 2nd hand prices.

Also, 1494/365 is 4 euro a day which doesn't sound as bad.

teediddlyeye

Depends on the car. I've paid the 1809 before, wouldn't be so quick to do it again. I'd probably be in the minority preferring the c02 system. Choose wisely and you can have a big diesel or petrol for a reasonable rate.

Diemos

PsychoPete wrote: »

I've a friend from Eastern Europe, he has a 3.5 S class out there and it's less than €100 a year to tax

yeah but his house cost 5,000€ so hardly like with like.

jimmycrackcorm

I hardly ever drive so I think it's unfair that I pay the same tax as someone who does drive extensively. I'd be totally in favour of tax being added to fuel instead. Of course, the rural lobby will say it is a disproportionate tax on them, but they've chosen to live there and it's disproportionate for me to pay the tax.

Diemos

Elite Genetics wrote: »

I'm sure you're enjoying that €2250 annual bill for your M3. Here in the good old Texas there is no such thing cause 'merica, also no insurance required in Virginia. I guess we need to save the environment so pay up.

In all seriousness, even if you're an enthusiast it must be tear inducing to pay that much unless you're loaded to the point that it doesn't matter.

Has to be one of the reasons we rarely see nice cars here, you go to the UK ( very similar market) and you are much more likely to see higher end cars.

Having driven an M3 for a short while I can tell you that while it is lovely to drive, you can't complete a trip on the M50 without some tool (usually in an S3 or Golf R) trying to get you to race them. Too much headache.

Diemos

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I hardly ever drive so I think it's unfair that I pay the same tax as someone who does drive extensively. I'd be totally in favour of tax being added to fuel instead. Of course, the rural lobby will say it is a disproportionate tax on them, but they've chosen to live there and it's disproportionate for me to pay the tax.

I'm sure there is a reason that they don't do this, I just can't think of one.
But they would save a fortune in admin fees and non payments vs the current system.

teediddlyeye

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I hardly ever drive so I think it's unfair that I pay the same tax as someone who does drive extensively. I'd be totally in favour of tax being added to fuel instead. Of course, the rural lobby will say it is a disproportionate tax on them, but they've chosen to live there and it's disproportionate for me to pay the tax.

Someone doing way more miles than you is likely paying more tax overall, so you're not paying the same.

There's plenty of tax on fuel already we dont need any more. Want to pay less buy a micra.

Atlantic Dawn

What bothers me most is it's not ringfenced to maintain and upgrade the transport network in this country, even if that meant including public transport funding.

Pops_20

Don't feel so good about it, seeing as I pay 200 euro every 3 months for very little driving.

On a slightly unrelated note, I recently found out something interesting.
For cars older than July 2008, we pay motor tax based on Carbon Dioxide emissions. Co2 is bad for the planet. The more Co2 you create the more you pay. That's fair.
However, did you know that catalytic converters in cars actually produce more Co2 than if the car did not have a catalytic converter at all?
The catalytic converter converts the Carbon Monoxide in exhaust gas into Carbon dioxide, thus produces more.
I know that Carbon Monoxide isn't great for people to be inhaling and neither is NOx, but it just all seems a bit mad that global CO2 emissions could be significantly lower without catalytic converters, the very thing we are taxed to death on.

Dravokivich

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I hardly ever drive so I think it's unfair that I pay the same tax as someone who does drive extensively. I'd be totally in favour of tax being added to fuel instead. Of course, the rural lobby will say it is a disproportionate tax on them, but they've chosen to live there and it's disproportionate for me to pay the tax.

Diemos wrote: »

I'm sure there is a reason that they don't do this, I just can't think of one.
But they would save a fortune in admin fees and non payments vs the current system.

They did that already with road tax, then later on brought out motor tax. If they pushed it to fuel again, it'll come back as vehicular tax as they'll need a means to cash in on EVs at some point.

Isambard

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I hardly ever drive so I think it's unfair that I pay the same tax as someone who does drive extensively. I'd be totally in favour of tax being added to fuel instead. Of course, the rural lobby will say it is a disproportionate tax on them, but they've chosen to live there and it's disproportionate for me to pay the tax.

you've chosen not to drive extensively.. the rural lobby would argue.

Fr Tod Umptious

I've been happily ticking that "voluntary declaration of off the road" or what ever it's called check box every three months since March.

Thank you COVID.

PhilOssophy

Elite Genetics wrote: »

Here in the good old Texas....

Nuff said. America is the barometer or standard bearer for nothing any longer.

Del2005

Elite Genetics wrote: »

I'm sure you're enjoying that €2250 annual bill for your M3. Here in the good old Texas there is no such thing cause 'merica, also no insurance required in Virginia. I guess we need to save the environment so pay up.

In all seriousness, even if you're an enthusiast it must be tear inducing to pay that much unless you're loaded to the point that it doesn't matter.

Wait till you get sick to see how great America is.

Their transport infrastructure is falling apart with thousands of dangerous bridges and woeful public transport in most of the country. But enjoy the low cost of motoring, while you are healthy.

Elite Genetics

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Nuff said. America is the barometer or standard bearer for nothing any longer.

Have you lived there? We are talking here about taxes. Are you saying that you prefer paying massive tax for owning a car and would prefer over not paying anything at all? It's the best country for car enthusiasts, that's why you see so many nice powerful cars there instead of hordes of micras, clios and fiestas.

Elite Genetics

Del2005 wrote: »

Wait till you get sick to see how great America is.

Their transport infrastructure is falling apart with thousands of dangerous bridges and woeful public transport in most of the country. But enjoy the low cost of motoring, while you are healthy.

Thousands of dangerous bridges... lol wut? Thank you, I will enjoy. Ireland hasn't got good public transport either if you want to compare.

McCrack

We don't have mass shootings either

Elite Genetics

McCrack wrote: »

We don't have mass shootings either

It's a warzone, I tell you. Once you leave the airport, you sprint straight to your car and drive to the hotel while hiding under the steering wheel in order to avoid getting shot. You order any goods for home delivery because it's way to dangerous to go to a shop as there is a mass shooter everywhere with rocket launchers and machine guns setup.

Zascar

It's absolutely criminal and just unfair to car lovers. I always wanted to have nice cars with big engines but it just pained me too much to get raped each year with the tax so always kept it under 2L.

Now I live in Dubai, and like the OP in the USA, there are almost no taxes on cars here. Just a yearly registration/test fee of about €150. Insurance Is very cheap also - it's a flat rate based on the cylinders once it's over a certain age. I drive a 4.5L V8 Porsche Cayenne (which I only paid €6,000 euro for as its 2008 - but mint), and I pay under €500. Looking at a Porsche Cayman and insurance will only be €250. Also the car is insured and anyone can drive it. Oh and a full tank of petrol in mine is just over €30 for 90 litres. It's the way it should be. Could not come back to Ireland be raped insane costs of cars, tax and insurance and then again by zero no claims bonus etc - that does not even exist out here.

PhilOssophy

Elite Genetics wrote: »

Have you lived there? We are talking here about taxes. Are you saying that you prefer paying massive tax for owning a car and would prefer over not paying anything at all? It's the best country for car enthusiasts, that's why you see so many nice powerful cars there instead of hordes of micras, clios and fiestas.

I did live there, and honestly I'd prefer our roads full of cars that people need rather than a road full of disgusting oversized gas guzzling waste.

But anyway, I think you're just looking for an argument so I think any further engagement has me in the "arguing with an idiot" category, so I will wish you a good day, and a Happy Christmas while I unfollow the the thread.

Slán!

Fitz II

I despise paying tax, however it is the social contract we have to live with the freedoms, philosophy & society that Ireland affords us.

What you save on taxes in other countries you pay for in other areas such as lack of affordable healthcare, high criminal activity and lack public safety, oppressive religious beliefs and treatment of the outsider as slaves, unstable government, lack open access to the EU, lack of freedom of movement, extreme climates.

Its a grand little country we have here but there is a cost of entry and it be tax.

sameoldname

Zascar wrote: »

It's absolutely criminal and just unfair to car lovers. I always wanted to have nice cars with big engines but it just pained me too much to get raped each year with the tax so always kept it under 2L.

Now I live in Dubai, and like the OP in the USA, there are almost no taxes on cars here. Just a yearly registration/test fee of about €150. Insurance Is very cheap also - it's a flat rate based on the cylinders once it's over a certain age. I drive a 4.5L V8 Porsche Cayenne (which I only paid €6,000 euro for as its 2008 - but mint), and I pay under €500. Looking at a Porsche Cayman and insurance will only be €250. Also the car is insured and anyone can drive it. Oh and a full tank of petrol in mine is just over €30 for 90 litres. It's the way it should be. Could not come back to Ireland be raped insane costs of cars, tax and insurance and then again by zero no claims bonus etc - that does not even exist out here.

You can't compare taxes in one country that has basically no mineral resources (Ireland) and one that has the 7th largest oil reserves on Earth. Your low taxes are being subsidised by the fact that oil exports account for 1/3rd of government revenue. It's not exactly fair to compare the two.

teediddlyeye

PhilOssophy wrote: »

honestly I'd prefer our roads full of cars that people need rather than a road full of disgusting oversized gas guzzling waste.

I fcuking hate this Irish ingrained Catholic guilt argument on needs vs wants. Why not just become a monk, take a vow of poverty and dig some of your own grave every day until you die. Fantastic use of resources.

Dont want a wasteful car dont drive one. Ireland is taking the p1ss at the opposite end of the spectrum to the US on motoring taxes.

Elite Genetics

teediddlyeye wrote: »

I fcuking hate this Irish ingrained Catholic guilt argument on needs vs wants. Why not just become a monk, take a vow of poverty and dig some of your own grave every day until you die. Fantastic use of resources.

Dont want a wasteful car dont drive one. Ireland is taking the p1ss at the opposite end of the spectrum to the US on motoring taxes.

You didn't know? Americans have guns to their heads forcing them to buy 6l engine trucks.

Cars in America are used as penis waving contests, absolutely stupid and absurd. At least the high tax keeps these out of Ireland.
Nothing more embarrassing see a massive lifted truck that should be in the Alaskan oil fields sitting in a McDonalds drive thru

Wishbone Ash

Isambard wrote: »

you've chosen not to drive extensively.. the rural lobby would argue.

....yes, and because of that choice, he/she should not have to pay the same as someone who does.

Wishbone Ash

salonfire wrote: »

...Nothing more embarrassing see a massive lifted truck that should be in the Alaskan oil fields sitting in a McDonalds drive thru

It's hardly embarrassing. I'd prefer it to looking at a Micra.

Andrewf20

Elite Genetics wrote: »

I'm sure you're enjoying that €2250 annual bill for your M3. Here in the good old Texas there is no such thing cause 'merica, also no insurance required in Virginia. I guess we need to save the environment so pay up.

In all seriousness, even if you're an enthusiast it must be tear inducing to pay that much unless you're loaded to the point that it doesn't matter.

Cars may be cheaper to tax and buy in the USA but cops are everywhere over there compared to here so any sort of enthusiastic driving will have the cops on your tail in no time. Its almost pointless having anything decent unless you are into track days.

I actually thought they were very heavy handed, pulling people for relatively benign things.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Tax is a disgrace here. I spent years in NZ driving whatever the hell I wanted, subarus, v8 ford's, huge pick up trucks and as long as you stuck $70 sticker on your car every year you were legal to drive. Insurance optional.

This country is a fûcking disgrace. It's so anti motorist. There's absolutely no need for the OUTRAGEOUS tax and insurance here.

teediddlyeye

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

....yes, and because of that choice, he/she should not have to pay the same as someone who does.

They dont. Those that drive less already pay way less in bloated fuel taxes.

teediddlyeye

salonfire wrote: »

At least the high tax keeps these out of Ireland.

Why does that need to be the case?

People dont like spending money on juice, so most try keep it at a minimum anyway. Most would consider our average cars pretty adequate, I'd consider it pretty pathetic. Dacia? Ffs cars for 3rd world countries.

Point is it'd be nice to have an option of even slightly above average without being penalised. Look at the uk. Much fairer tax system but you still dont see dodge rams everywhere.

Eric Cartman

salonfire wrote: »

Cars in America are used as penis waving contests, absolutely stupid and absurd. At least the high tax keeps these out of Ireland.
Nothing more embarrassing see a massive lifted truck that should be in the Alaskan oil fields sitting in a McDonalds drive thru

You clearly have never heard of the Dacia range of cars, or the Nissan Juke.

Thankfully most people can see that there are more to cars than simply getting from A to B and the extortionate tax here really limits ones ability to drive the cars you want.

I truly would love to see a car culture in Ireland where it was more common to see lovely V8 and V12 powered tanks humming around the streets.

Zascar

salonfire wrote: »

Cars in America are used as penis waving contests, absolutely stupid and absurd. At least the high tax keeps these out of Ireland.
Nothing more embarrassing see a massive lifted truck that should be in the Alaskan oil fields sitting in a McDonalds drive thru

Rubbish. If you live in a country like that and have the room, the roads and the infrastructure, they are absolutely brilliant. The best selling car of any type in the US is the ford F150 and there is a reason for it. Driving a little 1 litre mini type car after it is like a joke.

3d4life

Talking of the ewe esse of ay, I understand California will prohibit sales of new ICE cars from 2035. Given the (very) limited availability of non ICE cars at the present, its gonna need some ramp up of EV / fuel cell cars. Some say that to achieve it sales will need to be 50% non ICE by 2030. Thats 9 years away or just a couple of years more than the normal design to market time for a new car.

Buddy Bubs

There's plenty of nice stuff in between a 1 litre micra and the f150 pick up truck you can buy lads.

CelticRambler

Elite Genetics wrote: »

We are talking here about taxes. Are you saying that you prefer paying massive tax for owning a car and would prefer over not paying anything at all?

Zascar wrote: »

Now I live in Dubai, and like the OP in the USA, there are almost no taxes on cars here. Just a yearly registration/test fee of about €150.

Fitz II wrote: »

What you save on taxes in other countries you pay for in other areas such as lack of affordable healthcare, high criminal activity and lack public safety, oppressive religious beliefs and treatment of the outsider as slaves, unstable government, lack open access to the EU, lack of freedom of movement, extreme climates.

No need to go to the States or the Middle East - no vehicle/road tax here in France, and the Contrôle Technique (every two years) only costs about 75€. Affordable healthcare, stable government and freedom of movement - nothing like doing a 2000km roadtrip across a dozen countries without needing to show your passport or paying card transaction or mobile roaming fees. )

Kaybaykwah

Zascar wrote: »

Rubbish. If you live in a country like that and have the room, the roads and the infrastructure, they are absolutely brilliant. The best selling car of any type in the US is the ford F150 and there is a reason for it. Driving a little 1 litre mini type car after it is like a joke.

People who buy pickups for everyday driving are not the smartest. Ever drive the F series trucks above 110km/hr?
You might experience the death wobble, believe me, it will make you want to go back to your Skoda. The F150s for the most part useless unless you are a contractor.

teediddlyeye

Buddy Bubs wrote: »

There's plenty of nice stuff in between a 1 litre micra and the f150 pick up truck you can buy lads.

The problem is we're skewed way towards the smaller end and once you start going much more than a diesel golf the rates start getting punitive. Ridiculous

lawred2

Buddy Bubs wrote: »

There's plenty of nice stuff in between a 1 litre micra and the f150 pick up truck you can buy lads.

That's what I was about to say

Triangle

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Tax is a disgrace here. I spent years in NZ driving whatever the hell I wanted, subarus, v8 ford's, huge pick up trucks and as long as you stuck $70 sticker on your car every year you were legal to drive. Insurance optional.

This country is a fûcking disgrace. It's so anti motorist. There's absolutely no need for the OUTRAGEOUS tax and insurance here.

NZ only pay for damage and rehabilitation. You get a handy 16k for a tip from behind in Ireland.

I'd love to see their no fault system brought in here.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Triangle wrote: »

NZ only pay for damage and rehabilitation. You get a handy 16k for a tip from behind.

I'd love to see their no fault system brought in here.

Not to mention paid leave off work plus other things. It wouldn't work here because of our chancer boss culture.

CiniO

Fitz II wrote: »

I despise paying tax, however it is the social contract we have to live with the freedoms, philosophy & society that Ireland affords us.

What you save on taxes in other countries you pay for in other areas such as lack of affordable healthcare, high criminal activity and lack public safety, oppressive religious beliefs and treatment of the outsider as slaves, unstable government, lack open access to the EU, lack of freedom of movement, extreme climates.

Its a grand little country we have here but there is a cost of entry and it be tax.

To be honest vast majority of EU countries have much lower taxes on cars and motoring, and don't present any of things you listed.

Ireland is one of the the countries in the EU, where motorists are being drained out of money the most.
I don't (never did and never will) understand the reason for that in a country where motoring is a base of people lives/economy/etc due to extensive rural living, and small population density through most of country's area.
So unless everyone moves to Dublin, and remaining 25 counties are abandoned, there will be a need for affordable motoring, which year by year is becoming less affordable.

Since I moved to Poland (country with GDP per capita 5 times lower than Ireland) I can clearly say that motoring here is more affordable to average person. That just shows how ridiculous is a whole situation in Ireland with cost of motortax/insurance....

smellyoldboot

I don't mind tax but in saying that mine will €170 for the year. The cost of everything else is ridiculous to the point of bizarre. €2k for insurance, about €700 in lessons and tests, a bizarre learning curriculum that hugely favours those with drivers already in the family over those who don't. VRT to prevent you sourcing cheaper options elsewhere. Eye watering fuel prices. Treasure Island.