Ireland Scotland match thread

Dog Botherer

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You said Healy is too slow and a penalty magnet.
Your observations about these should be easy to back up yet you cant do that.
I have queried your opinion and you cant/wont back them up. Why?

you’re wasting your time trying to get a straight answer out of that one.

awec

Herring is no world beater but it says a lot about the rest of the lads that he keeps getting picked ahead of them.

And Cian Healy is done.

Ardillaun

I thought Eric O’Sullivan had a promising cameo and Henshaw added a bit with his kicking and that leap for Earls’s first try. Nice to see us winning something in the air again. We missed a lot of tackles. The players have to take responsibility for that. Apart from Doris, few should feel sure of their place in that team.

It’s amazing what Hogg can still do with no space. He’s wasted with Scotland. Van der Walt played well, a definite attacking addition to the line and van der Merwe is an excellent player who took his chance.

shootermacg

awec wrote: »

Herring is no world beater but it says a lot about the rest of the lads that he keeps getting picked ahead of them.

I think it says more about selection than the talent that is available.

RugbyLover123

Ardillaun wrote: »

It’s amazing what Hogg can still do with no space. He’s wasted with Scotland. Van der Walt played well, a definite attacking addition to the line and van der Merwe is an excellent player who took his chance.

Really? I would think he epitomises Scotland. His game is littered with inaccuracies that are covered up by a nice break or try every 5/6 games.

Poor positioning twice today, one of which led to the second Irish try. Donal Lenihan made a remark about him having great feet near the sideline in the first half yet he didn’t beat the defender and proceeded to throw a ridiculous offload that gave possession back to Ireland. But hey he had a half decent run from a poor kick from Ireland where the only chasers were Henderson, Stander and Healy. He’s a slightly more reliable full back version of Finn Russell for me.

ElisaAtWar

I'm a big F1 fan. You give a guy an opportunity in a winning team, then they win. You give a guy an opportunity with Ireland then they do well but they will never win at the top table. And they reason they don't win is so brutally obvious. At what point does this change

thomond2006

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

I'm a big F1 fan. You give a guy an opportunity in a winning team, then they win. You give a guy an opportunity with Ireland then they do well but they will never win at the top table. And they reason they don't win is so brutally obvious. At what point does this change

I know and no doubt you won't point it out to us.

ElisaAtWar

thomond2006 wrote: »

I know and no doubt you won't point it out to us.

I hear you thomond. I am very repetitive. It irritates me. I need to contain my irritation because, I agree, it is irritating and repetitive

thomond2006

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

They are late 20s but so what. Would only be 32 or so for next world cup. Kelleher has to get the basics of his position right

shootermacg wrote: »

Jesus Thomond!
What age is too old for a front row? Kelleher just doesn't have the basics, Herring doesn't do enough around the park. The two Munster hookers have been stand outs and have made great contributions for the last few years. They've surpassed Scannell in pretty much every aspect. What more do they need to do? 28 and 29 is not too old! Herring is 30!

I think they'll stick with Kelleher. I like both Marshall and KOB but I don't see them getting a look in at this point barring an injury crisis. Maybe that changes if form demands it over the next two months, but since there's been no callup to this point...

KaneToad wrote: »

Sean Cronin!

Although, I concede, not quite "Leinster produced".
He should have had more of a chance in green, he must have really offended Schmidt to get the cold shoulder he got....

I don't think anyone could argue he didn't get chances in green. He won 72 caps!

Rugbymad2020

glasso wrote: »

He said that Scotland are deluded.

That they continuously big themselves up but that they are, in essence, shyte.

Pretty much Ireland every single World Cup

Burkie1203

Rugbymad2020 wrote: »

Pretty much Ireland every single World Cup

Scotland have never won the 6n

Ireland have 4 in the last 12 years including 2 slams

Burkie1203

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

We are already moving forward with the likes of Doris and at the same time moving backwards with the likes of Stander. And if you don't see that then we just differ in our opinions. Stander is just a bludgeon which works against the minor teams but otherwise he is so ordinary

One thing that I thought was poor yesterday was not getting Doris to have a run off the back of the scrum. He has a much better skill set then Stander in that he poses more questions when he has the ball. Think Stander has actually had a poor Autumn series overall

Keenan I think was quietly efficient throughout.

pickarooney

thomond2006 wrote: »

I think they'll stick with Kelleher. I like both Marshall and KOB but I don't see them getting a look in at this point barring an injury crisis. Maybe that changes if form demands it over the next two months, but since there's been no callup to this point...



I don't think anyone could argue he didn't get chances in green. He won 72 caps!

Exactly the same number of caps as Geordan Murphy about whom people say the same thing.

Is Rhys Marshall IQ?

clsmooth

awec wrote: »

And Cian Healy is done.

Agree with this. His clean outs and carries weren’t particularly effective yesterday and he’s slow enough getting back to his feet. The indian summer of 2017-18 seems a while ago now. Porter put in another huge shift. Great exposure for him this year and he’s been up to most of what’s been thrown at him.

I’d be a bit critical of Farrell for not using the bench early enough. The likes of Porter and Ryan have been put through some serious minutes and in Ryan’s case, I think his performances have dipped as a result. Kelleher and JGP could have done with longer cameos.

POM, Murray and Earls were amongst our best players yesterday which is good news but when you take into the account the age profile of those guys, it’s also a bit concerning. Henshaw and Keenan were good too. I think Aki might miss out when Ringrose is back (although we all know that they have a gentleman’s agreement to never all be fit at the same time ).

Stockdale had a few nice moments and I’ve been impressed with his passing game over the last 2 weeks but also fumbled a few high balls which we can’t afford against the likes of France and England. If we had Joey Carberry back fit, he’d be a great option at 15 giving us that second receiver that we sorely lack (don’t think Ringrose is the answer). Unfortunately that boat seems to have sailed for now and hopefully he can just get an injury free run playing for Munster first. Maybe going forward he’ll end up up back at 15 there with the emergence of Healy.

Buer

awec wrote: »

Herring is no world beater but it says a lot about the rest of the lads that he keeps getting picked ahead of them.

I don't expect Herring to be in the team much longer. A really dumb penalty at a maul but going to sleep for the try was poor. It's the sort of mistake that will haunt him as he lies in bed at night.

I think he's a necessity for now but that window is closing rapidly. He's in the team because he delivers on the basics better than others but yesterday, he didn't deliver in that regard for me.

KaneToad

thomond2006 wrote: »

I think they'll stick with Kelleher. I like both Marshall and KOB but I don't see them getting a look in at this point barring an injury crisis. Maybe that changes if form demands it over the next two months, but since there's been no callup to this point...



I don't think anyone could argue he didn't get chances in green. He won 72 caps!

Nearly always as sub. I think there were a few years when Best should have played second fiddle to him..

Former Former Former

awec wrote: »

Herring is no world beater but it says a lot about the rest of the lads that he keeps getting picked ahead of them.

And Cian Healy is done.

Yep, we're very weak at hooker. If Kelleher doesn't improve we have a big gap.

Healy is like Sexton really. Not nearly as good as he was but still the best we have. He's not done until someone takes the jersey off him.

awec

Former Former Former wrote: »

Yep, we're very weak at hooker. If Kelleher doesn't improve we have a big gap.

Healy is like Sexton really. Not nearly as good as he was but still the best we have. He's not done until someone takes the jersey off him.

Well yea, I am being facetious when I say "done". He does a job now, but he last lost the explosive power that he had. He's an average enough test prop these days.

Kilcoyne has 2 years on Healy, he'll be a stopgap until the next player takes the jersey for themselves.

ElisaAtWar

There is one certainty about CJ Stander. Once he gets the ball he will never pass the ball. And that type of outlook is never going to be successful unless you are playing the minions of world rugby. I'm thankful for his efforts but I find it unlikely that his brain dead work has gone unnoticed by Andy Farrell

ElisaAtWar

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

There is one certainty about CJ Stander. Once he gets the ball he will never pass the ball. And that type of outlook is never going to be successful unless you are playing the minions of world rugby. I'm thankful for his efforts but I find it unlikely that his brain dead work has gone unnoticed by Andy Farrell

Stander at scrumhalf in this clip :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wIik9N0BdQ

Dave_The_Sheep

I saw that thread on the subreddit. It's fine enough analysis, but it's one example, our best from the game, but hardly a signal of anything at all in isolation.

leakyboots

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

There is one certainty about CJ Stander. Once he gets the ball he will never pass the ball. And that type of outlook is never going to be successful unless you are playing the minions of world rugby. I'm thankful for his efforts but I find it unlikely that his brain dead work has gone unnoticed by Andy Farrell

Didn't he put someone clear down the wing last week? He's been a latch in setpiece tries too. It's nonsense that CJ doesn't pass

phog

I think we had a much better game against Scotland than we did last week v Georgia but my god can we fall asleep at times. We started well, took the correct option to go for points but then we let Scotland play rugby, despite what Johnny said in his post match interview we really let Scotland get a foothold in the game. The tries before and after halftime sealed the win for us and took some pressure off the players & coaching team.

While we have England & France at home I'm not sure we can look at winning the 6Ns unless we show huge improvements.

theVersatile

Stats have proven so many times that CJ not passing or offloading is a myth - its not worth bringing up anymore.

aloooof

razorblunt wrote: »

Blair Cowan just added his name to POM’s list.

Just behind Japanese Knotweed.

Read back over some of this thread and feel this comment didn't get enough love.

molloyjh

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

There is one certainty about CJ Stander. Once he gets the ball he will never pass the ball. And that type of outlook is never going to be successful unless you are playing the minions of world rugby. I'm thankful for his efforts but I find it unlikely that his brain dead work has gone unnoticed by Andy Farrell

There is no need for the brain dead comment. None. Especially when the stats state he passed 3 times, which is the same as Doris did and only 2 less than POM. All of the Scottish back row are down for 3 passes each too. You are both out of line and very, very wrong. Posts like this add nothing to discussion at all through their aggressive BS and plain, lazy inaccuracies.

AbusesToilets

molloyjh wrote: »

There is no need for the brain dead comment. None. Especially when the stats state he passed 3 times, which is the same as Doris did and only 2 less than POM. All of the Scottish back row are down for 3 passes each too. You are both out of line and very, very wrong. Posts like this add nothing to discussion at all through their aggressive BS and plain, lazy inaccuracies.

He may pass, but it's nature of them that's questionable. He passes like POC did, quick shovel ones usually. He's not historically been good at drawing and passing, whether that's by design of the game plan or instinct on his part.

razorblunt

aloooof wrote: »

Read back over some of this thread and feel this comment didn't get enough love.

Ha!

phog

AbusesToilets wrote: »

He may pass, but it's nature of them that's questionable. He passes like POC did, quick shovel ones usually. He's not historically been good at drawing and passing, whether that's by design of the game plan or instinct on his part.

In the lead up to the yellow card, Stander passed twice in the same play, one as receiver from the lineout and the other in the run of play from our half to their 22. The ball never died until the deliberate knock on.

What more do people want?

sydthebeat

phog wrote: »

In the lead up to the yellow card, Stander passed twice in the same play, one as receiver from the lineout and the other in the run of play from our half to their 22. The ball never died until the deliberate knock on.

What more do people want?

some people will die on a non-existent hill......