Property Management Company problems

cedar

Hi Guys

First time poster.

I live in a multi unit development and the property management company(the directors are residents) select the property management agents on a three year contract.

I have queried how they select the agents to take care of the day to day running of the development.Basically me and my immediate neighbours are unhappy with the agents.They have held the contract for about ten years.I suspect some collusion between the Directors and agents.

Basically Ive been fobbed off and told the Directors are happy with the selection process....can I take this further?

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Smee_Again

Ask for the minutes from the meeting that selected the agent.

Did you attend any of the AGMs?

Op, I was on the Board of Directors of the OMC, time and again we had to deal with queries and complaints from owners who hadn’t bothered to attend AGMs and didn’t agree with decisions taken at it. Managing agents are selected at AGMs, if you are unhappy with the performance of the Agent, you bring it up at the AGM, before a vote is taken to renew the Agent’s contract. Decisions like this are made by majority vote, if you are not there, please do not complain about your opinion not being taken into acccount.

By “collusion” do you mean some kind of payment?

hamburgham

cedar wrote: »

Hi Guys

First time poster.

I live in a multi unit development and the property management company(the directors are residents) select the property management agents on a three year contract.

I have queried how they select the agents to take care of the day to day running of the development.Basically me and my immediate neighbours are unhappy with the agents.They have held the contract for about ten years.I suspect some collusion between the Directors and agents.

Basically Ive been fobbed off and told the Directors are happy with the selection process....can I take this further?

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Have you and your neighbours attended the agms? If so, have any of you put yourself forward to act as director and take on some of the responsibility? It is a major pain in the neck.

Do you know how much your mgmt co is paying the managing agent annually? Why don’t you go and get quotes from some alternative companies as a start.

I well believe you’ve problems, we had a useless one as well but the current directors might appreciate if you approached it with something constructive such as a few alternative quotes instead of just dumping a problem on their laps. My block has had the same directors for years because no one else will volunteer but that doesn’t stop them dumping problems on us while doing absolutely nothing to help.

hamburgham

hamburgham wrote: »

Have you and your neighbours attended the agms? If so, have any of you put yourself forward to act as director and take on some of the responsibility? It is a major pain in the neck.

Do you know how much your mgmt co is paying the managing agent annually? Why don’t you go and get quotes from some alternative companies as a start.

I well believe you’ve problems, we had a useless one as well but the current directors might appreciate if you approached it with something constructive such as a few alternative quotes instead of just dumping a problem on their laps. My block has had the same directors for years because no one else will volunteer but that doesn’t stop them dumping problems on us while doing absolutely nothing to help.

Have to echo this, one of the hardest things about being a Director is getting off the Board. For a couple of years, every time I resigned, the Chairman, an elderly man I knew very well, and liked, pleaded with me to stay as he could not handle all the hassle, and no one else wanted to volunteer. Eventually when he left, I left.

Dealing with 50 owners, most of whom didn’t attend AGMs, didn’t pay subs on time, and complained bitterly about tiny issues is a true test of patience.

Edgware

These issues can be raised at an A.G.M. Have you done so and if not why not ? Directors are nominated and the position put to a vote. If you think you can do brtter you can always seek nomination. However people looking in from the outside often do not realise the work that goes into this.
There are good agents and bad agents and I cannot understand how a bad agent is re appointed every three years. Often people expect a top class service but are not prepared to pay the necessary level of management fee

Caranica

OP first and foremost you say you live in a managed development, do you own the property? Management agents are answerable to members of the management company ie the owners.

Secondly what are the nature of your issues. We recently had an owner who wanted our agent fired and replaced but instead we convinced them to come onto the board of directors and they've seen themselves how our current agent is the best we've ever had and gets stuff done.

cedar

Thanks for all your replies so far,I am the property owner and this year the AGM was done through zoom with the directors and agents only.

Any questions/queries were to be submitted in advance...my questions were about the agent selection process,when the contract expires and what records were kept?

The answer I got was that the Directors were satisfied with the process!!So basically fobbed off.....any ideas as what to do next?

cedar

Oh and we are paying 17K pa for 96 units

whippet

cedar wrote: »

Oh and we are paying 17K pa for 96 units

How much do you think you should be paying ?

joeguevara

cedar wrote: »

Thanks for all your replies so far,I am the property owner and this year the AGM was done through zoom with the directors and agents only.

Any questions/queries were to be submitted in advance...my questions were about the agent selection process,when the contract expires and what records were kept?

The answer I got was that the Directors were satisfied with the process!!So basically fobbed off.....any ideas as what to do next?

All shareholders are entitled to attend the agm even if held by zoom or other electronic means. Notice of the agm should have been given to all shareholders at least 21 days before it. Shorter notice periods are only allowed If agreed by all shareholders.

If you didn’t get notice and you are a shareholder then it may be considered that the meeting did not meet the strict legislative requirements and binding decisions are null and void and a new agm would be convened.

If you were told that the agm was being convened but restricted to directors only and a link to the zoom meeting withheld, then this also would not meet the notice requirements.

You said that you were requested to provide any questions in advance which is acceptable but not a substitute for your attendance. Check if you received the required notice and if you didn’t then immediately raise it with your directors and if no joy, you can raise it with the ODCE.

If you did receive the appropriate notice then there is little that you can do as more than likely the decision was passed with an appropriate quorum. One other thing that might be worth a look is to check the constituting documents to see if it allows an agm to be held electronically. If it does not then it may mean that it was a breach of the constitution. One final thing and I may be wrong on this so maybe someone else can confirm, is that even if an electronic agm is permitted, the agm still must have a physical location. This may be in a specific office, but if not outlined I am under the impression that it wouldn’t meet the required notice requirements. If this was organised without someone knowing what the exact requirements are, it is possible that it is not a legitimate agm.

cedar

Quote:
Originally Posted by cedar View Post
Oh and we are paying 17K pa for 96 units

How much do you think you should be paying ?

I have no idea how 17K compares to the market rate....do you Whippet?

cedar

cedar wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by cedar View Post
Oh and we are paying 17K pa for 96 units

How much do you think you should be paying ?

I have no idea how 17K compares to the market rate....do you Whippet?

It’s not really relevant to what you were asking anyway. Some people may be willing to pay even more for something than less for nothing.

cedar

joeguevara wrote: »

All shareholders are entitled to attend the agm even if held by zoom or other electronic means. Notice of the agm should have been given to all shareholders at least 21 days before it. Shorter notice periods are only allowed If agreed by all shareholders.

If you didn’t get notice and you are a shareholder then it may be considered that the meeting did not meet the strict legislative requirements and binding decisions are null and void and a new agm would be convened.

If you were told that the agm was being convened but restricted to directors only and a link to the zoom meeting withheld, then this also would not meet the notice requirements.

You said that you were requested to provide any questions in advance which is acceptable but not a substitute for your attendance. Check if you received the required notice and if you didn’t then immediately raise it with your directors and if no joy, you can raise it with the ODCE.

If you did receive the appropriate notice then there is little that you can do as more than likely the decision was passed with an appropriate quorum. One other thing that might be worth a look is to check the constituting documents to see if it allows an agm to be held electronically. If it does not then it may mean that it was a breach of the constitution. One final thing and I may be wrong on this so maybe someone else can confirm, is that even if an electronic agm is permitted, the agm still must have a physical location. This may be in a specific office, but if not outlined I am under the impression that it wouldn’t meet the required notice requirements. If this was organised without someone knowing what the exact requirements are, it is possible that it is not a legitimate agm.

We were given the correct notice but no invitation via zoom

joeguevara

cedar wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by cedar View Post
Oh and we are paying 17K pa for 96 units

How much do you think you should be paying ?

I have no idea how 17K compares to the market rate....do you Whippet?

It really depends on what exactly the agent will be doing. Some are solely related to upkeep and maintenance of common areas and organisation of waste removal whereas others also are involved in collecting management fees, following up on arrears and other similar functions. Usually they charge between 6-10% of the annual rent and all coatings should be presented to the board for review before any agreement.

joeguevara

cedar wrote: »

We were given the correct notice but no invitation via zoom

From reading MHC guidance on this it would appear that electronic meeting without a physical location is not a breach due to updated legislation. Shareholders can be recommended to participate electronically but must be provided with proper access. If you didn’t get it and no other way of attending and no physical location which you could participate then you should raise it with your directors that it may not meet the requirements and should be remedied. It should be noted that there is an exemption based on verification f shareholder identity but has to be proportionate. If you are not happy with the response raise it with the ODCE.
https://www.mhc.ie/latest/insights/corporate-update-covid-19-and-the-age-of-the-virtual-agm

CIARAN_BOYLE

cedar wrote: »

We were given the correct notice but no invitation via zoom

If there was no invitation for members to attend then there was no agm. Tell them to call an actual agm.

Caranica

joeguevara wrote: »

From reading MHC guidance on this it would appear that electronic meeting without a physical location is a breach. Shareholders can be recommended to participate electronically but must be provided with proper access. If you didn’t get it and no other way of attending and no physical location which you could participate then you should raise it with your directors that it may not meet the requirements and should be remedied. If you are not happy with the response raise it with the ODCE.
https://www.mhc.ie/latest/insights/covid19-spreading-into-agm-season

That document won't open for me but I'm guessing it predates legislation enacted in the summer to permit all online AGMs for the period of the pandemic. The only requirement is that directors cameras and mics must be on.

With ours, the notice of the AGM went out with a request to RSVP. Only those who'd replied got the zoom link on the day.

joeguevara

Caranica wrote: »

That document won't open for me but I'm guessing it predates legislation enacted in the summer to permit all online AGMs for the period of the pandemic. The only requirement is that directors cameras and mics must be on.

With ours, the notice of the AGM went out with a request to RSVP. Only those who'd replied got the zoom link on the day.

Many thanks. I have found MHC more updated document which as you have mentioned states that the legislation has been amended (at the moment temporarily) to allow an agm to be held electronically without an actual physical location. It also states that data security is of utmost importance and companies must ensure that they are satisfied that the person who is attending is the correct person. It outlined that this may mean certain restrictions but would have to be proportionate.

Perhaps the way that it’s remedied is the rsvp as you outlined and the link provided with possible verification requirements. I don’t think it would be considered proportionate to do a blanket ban without considering if they have alternative methods. The OP did say that there was circa 90 apartments so maximum that would attend would be the owners + directors (if different) +agents so that would need to be considered. Really depends on what exactly the notice said with regard access. But apologies i was not aware of the update but had prefaced I could be wrong.

https://www.mhc.ie/latest/insights/corporate-update-covid-19-and-the-age-of-the-virtual-agm

Del2005

OP if you and others aren't happy you can always call an EGM to discus the issue. Check your documents to see how many other owners are required to call an EGM. But be prepared to take on a roll in your OMC if you start pushing issues.

cedar

Thanks everyone for your replies

dotsman

As for the fees, the 17K you are paying is cheaper (on a per unit basis) than what my apartment complex is paying.

thefridge2006

OP, this agent/management company isn't based in the midlands by any chance?

cedar

thefridge2006 wrote: »

OP, this agent/management company isn't based in the midlands by any chance?

Based in Naas...