Getting pregnant despite awful HSE, mortgage and global outlook

Voltairey

Hello,

I want to have a baby soon. I'm just turned 30 and been with my partner for a very long time (10+ years). My body is telling me that I should do this, it's the right time and to wait will be difficult. My partner will support me through this and will make a superb father.

However I'm afraid because the world is a terrible place and it seems like it's getting worse. We don't know what the hell kind of place it will be two decades from now. We want to get a mortgage and can easily afford this, but banks look less favourably on parents.

Also and most critically, the experiences I've had with the health services here have been just awful. If there were any complications, which there well could be, I would have no faith at all in the HSE to save me and my baby. I know two women who died in childbirth and of my own family members, myself and two of my four siblings are suffering from the result of medical negligence in our care after birth.

Any reassurances or affirmations of my sentiments welcome, I'm just kind of thinking out loud and would love to hear the opinions of other people who have different experiences.

Geuze

Voltairey wrote: »

However I'm afraid because the world is a terrible place and it seems like it's getting worse. We don't know what the hell kind of place it will be two decades from now.

This statement is false.

Living standards have dramatically improved.

Geuze

Voltairey wrote: »

Also and most critically, the experiences I've had with the health services here have been just awful. If there were any complications, which there well could be, I would have no faith at all in the HSE to save me and my baby. I know two women who died in childbirth and of my own family members, myself and two of my four siblings are suffering from the result of medical negligence in our care after birth.

No need to worry, Ireland is a very safe place to have a baby.

Here is the CSO data on Infant Mortality, Stillbirths and Maternal Mortality 2018

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-vsar/vitalstatisticsannualreport2018/infantmortalitystillbirthsandmaternalmortality2018/


Look at Fig 4.2, great news, great improvements.

Geuze

Voltairey wrote: »

Also and most critically, the experiences I've had with the health services here have been just awful. If there were any complications, which there well could be, I would have no faith at all in the HSE to save me and my baby. I know two women who died in childbirth and of my own family members, myself and two of my four siblings are suffering from the result of medical negligence in our care after birth.

Maternal deaths are very rare.

See Fig 4.4., and table 4.19

2018 = none

2017 = 1

2016 = 4

2015 = 1

2014 = 1


Bear in mind that is 1 death out of maybe 70,000 births.

mikhail

Absolutely, the notion that this is an unsafe place to have a baby is completely wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_maternal_mortality_ratio

randd1

Voltairey wrote: »

Hello,

I want to have a baby soon. I'm just turned 30 and been with my partner for a very long time (10+ years). My body is telling me that I should do this, it's the right time and to wait will be difficult. My partner will support me through this and will make a superb father.

However I'm afraid because the world is a terrible place and it seems like it's getting worse. We don't know what the hell kind of place it will be two decades from now. We want to get a mortgage and can easily afford this, but banks look less favourably on parents.

Also and most critically, the experiences I've had with the health services here have been just awful. If there were any complications, which there well could be, I would have no faith at all in the HSE to save me and my baby. I know two women who died in childbirth and of my own family members, myself and two of my four siblings are suffering from the result of medical negligence in our care after birth.

Any reassurances or affirmations of my sentiments welcome, I'm just kind of thinking out loud and would love to hear the opinions of other people who have different experiences.

With regard to re-assurances, the reality is unless the country turns into a war zone or the end of the world starts happening, it's almost a certainty everything will be fine and in line with the normality we now live in.

Don't worry, get riding, and get on with life.

blueskys

If your body is telling you its time, its time. Forget about external events, they will come and go. There is no better time in history to be a young person than now, trust me.

Geuze

Voltairey wrote: »

We want to get a mortgage and can easily afford this, but banks look less favourably on parents.

Most of your statements are false, so no need to worry.

But this statement is true, yes, the presence of children may reduce the amount you can borrow.

On the other hand, two parents means possibly two earners, so you could earn more than a single applicant.

Skyfloater

Yes, you're right OP. Just look at your mother, grand mother and great grand mother, life was a doddle for them.

omegaodie

Look having kids is always terrifying and the world will never be perfect and you and your fella will never be ready. Tiny little bundles hit like cannonballs, and going from trying to holding a child is a lot tougher than most people expect, because things can go wrong and sometimes it can be brutal. Your child/ren end up becoming your future, without them there is nothing and that's terrifying too. If it weren't for the fact that they are the most wonderful little bastards and how amazing it is to see them develop and grow and learn I'd say anyone who tries it is mad.#
tldr;
there is never a right time, and there is no rule book or check list all you got is your gut, if it says go for it, go for it.

Floppybits

If you are going to wait till everything is perfect to have a baby you will be waiting a long time.

weisses

I think its your own mental state that's giving trouble and less outside factors

Effects

Where are you based? TBH, there's a lot of places I wouldn't want to have a baby, but you'd be grand in Dublin.

Brandon75

When is the best age to have a child as I know the older woman get the less likely it will happen but have heard men over 30 have higher levels of DNA fragmentation which has anecdotally been linked to increase risk of autism and schizophrenia.” So, the perfect age for a man to have a baby is somewhere around 30.

My partner is 26 and I'm 29 I would be happy to wait 2 or 3 years. But if she becomes pregnant before then I have no problem with that aswell.

Voltairey

A lot to unpack here.

Many posters have said that it's my own mental state and not the real world factors that are stopping me.

One said (possibly sarcastic) that my mother, grandmother and great grandmother had a fine time of it. I'm not sure about great grandmother, but my grandmother lost two children who died upon delivery. She was left with scarring which left her with lifelong physically impairments. My mother, as I said already, had two children who suffered complications, one during birth and myself shortly after I was born. My sisters both have children with medical issues, one with a heart defect and one who has a minor brain injury due to a traumatic delivery.

I'm not even going to go in to our current health system and how badly it operates, low infant mortality rate notwithstanding. We are fairly far from the top of this list: https://www.infoplease.com/world/health-statistics/infant-mortality-rates-countries

And if you get sick here and need care, forget about it, especially now. I take some solace in the low mortality rate during pregnancy but the PTSD in some of my friends who have had a child is very real. It's something I'll just have to get over if I'm to go through with the birth and I have no issues with that, but to say that it's a walk in the park is untrue.

More than one in every twenty children in Ireland has a disability. I work with special needs children and can tell you first hand that they are treated shamefully by the state. Even if you have unlimited money, accessing services is near impossible.

The world as it currently is cannot be said to be a good one to have children is. Famine, economic distress and low standards of living in will be a common issue in the next several decades.
https://www.un.org/press/en/2020/sgsm20098.doc.htm

Land is being lost to global temperature increases causing rising tides. The list goes on.

We would have so much love to give a child, but some of the time I think that it's cruel to bring a person into the world. Yeah it's an unpopular opinion, but it's something that clouds my decision to just go for it.

vandriver

'...We are fairly far from the top of this list: https://www.infoplease...lity-rates-countries....'

The top of this list is not where any country wants to be.
We are below the EU average and down the other end of the list.

crossman47

Voltairey wrote: »

More than one in every twenty children in Ireland has a disability.

That is totally false. According to the 2016 Census, about 59000 out of a million aged 0-14 had a disability and that probably includes very minor issues.

Voltairey

crossman47 wrote: »

That is totally false. According to the 2016 Census, about 59000 out of a million aged 0-14 had a disability and that probably includes very minor issues.

See the image in the document I attached

Taken from this
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.drugs.ie/resourcesfiles/ResearchDocs/Ireland/2015/StateOftehNationsChildren2014.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjgrvPR1f_sAhW5aRUIHQLHBAUQFjAEegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw3xPLipJKn5kAdnNSVERYfF
P 55

Brandon75

More than one in every twenty children in Ireland has a disability. I work with special needs children and can tell you first hand that they are treated shamefully by the state. Even if you have unlimited money, accessing services is near impossible.




That is mostly got to do with family history or if the mother is on drugs . odds of having a baby with a disability is very slim if there is no gene from either sides family.

My mother like most around her time lost 1 or 2 babys it's just one of those awful things that can happen. Luckily she tried again if she didn't I wouldn't be here I was born premature but turned out grand didnt stop me growing to 6ft.

_Brian

Ireland is a great place to live, age place to have a baby and raise children.

ByTheSea2019

Is there any definition or threshold of how serious a problem needs to be before it counds as a disability. I mean is dyslexia counted in the same way as a child needing 24 hour care for life.

Real Life

Like many have said, there's never a good time to have a baby if that's what you are holding out for. You work with what you have, none of us know what kind of world we will be living in in 5, 10, 20 years time so there's no point thinking about that.

Having a baby was the best thing that ever happened to me, and that's coming from someone who never had any interest in having kids before it happened.
At times it can be hard, in many different way but the positives outweigh any negatives by a lot for me.

I won't lie, the birth wasn't great. My girlfriend had a tough time, we had a big scare and thought we might lose the baby after delivery, luckily it all worked out and he is fine now. This happened in one of the top maternity hospitals in Dublin, these things just happen sometimes, I don't think it was the staffs fault, some things are just out of your control. Although there was certain things leading up to the birth we felt they could have dealt with better.

If you're looking for someone to tell you you have nothing to worry about and everything will go great,youre just not going to get that because nobody can guarantee you what will happen but the most likely scenario is that everything will be ok in the end even if there's is little scares along the way. Its really up to you and how much you want it. For me I think its the best thing ever and I love every minute of being a parent. Even through the lack of sleep.

Good Luck

ceadaoin.

Sure there's always something dramatic going on in the world. War, famine, genocides. in the 80s it was the hole in the ozone layer, aids etc. No one would ever have had kids if everyone thought the way you do. Just get on with it. It will be grand. Or don't. Up to you. But not having kids that you desperately want because of world events outside of your control is a bit ridiculous really.

Gruffalux

You ask for reassurances and affirmations and yet actively foist away all positive offerings.
Humans were having babies back when Chernobyl was blowing up, back when Nuclear War seemed daily imminent, back when the world was in conflagrations. Believe it or not there has always been some frenzy to which one is invited to subscribe.

There is this very strong political motif abroad in the world these days of environmental doom, future chaos and trendy anti-natalism. Do not be fooled by these very powerful lobbies who make their money peddling gobshytery. The world will go on, the rich will get richer, people will lie to be famous, the mountains will stand. The zeitgeist is very reminiscent of apocalyptic millenarianism which has been around since forever. It is the new religion. The end is nigh. The messiah is on his way. Castrate yourself. Woe onto all of us.

If you want, have a baby. And be careful about believing everything you hear..or think. Teach the baby to grow up hopeful, happy, rational and resilient.

Brandon75

Real Life wrote: »

Like many have said, there's never a good time to have a baby if that's what you are holding out for. You work with what you have, none of us know what kind of world we will be living in in 5, 10, 20 years time so there's no point thinking about that.

Having a baby was the best thing that ever happened to me, and that's coming from someone who never had any interest in having kids before it happened.
At times it can be hard, in many different way but the positives outweigh any negatives by a lot for me.

I won't lie, the birth wasn't great. My girlfriend had a tough time, we had a big scare and thought we might lose the baby after delivery, luckily it all worked out and he is fine now. This happened in one of the top maternity hospitals in Dublin, these things just happen sometimes, I don't think it was the staffs fault, some things are just out of your control. Although there was certain things leading up to the birth we felt they could have dealt with better.

If you're looking for someone to tell you you have nothing to worry about and everything will go great,youre just not going to get that because nobody can guarantee you what will happen but the most likely scenario is that everything will be ok in the end even if there's is little scares along the way. Its really up to you and how much you want it. For me I think its the best thing ever and I love every minute of being a parent. Even through the lack of sleep.

Good Luck

Do you have just the one child ?
Would it put you off having another child if they had a chance to have a disability ?

Mullaghteelin

Voltairey wrote: »

Land is being lost to global temperature increases causing rising tides. The list goes on..

Now this is hysteria unless you live on one of those tiny islands that's barely above sea level. Or you insist in living on the sea front. We are not going to turn into the horrible Kevin Costner film, Waterworld.
Over the next 50 years low lying coastal margins will see increased flooding at high tide, especially during storms
It's also possible that climate change could result in an increase of productive agricultural land as areas currently too cold or too dry come into play.

seenitall

I don’t think that the decision to have a child has much to do with any rational reasons, not with most people and especially women (estrogen gets ya in the end!). It’s like you say, OP, your body is telling you it’s time. We are animals whose biology means a powerful call to reproduce, and your body isn’t letting you forget it!

I am a mother and if I had looked at it rationally, I wouldn’t have had a child, no way! Not when I did, and not now, either. There are, unfortunately, so many rational reasons not to reproduce in this crazy, expensive, dangerous world. But I had the same call of my body at about the same age as yourself. And That’s the whole story, I’m afraid.

We think we are all so rational these days and oh so clever, so we expect to always make the rational decisions and that we are so clever and advanced as a species that we can calculate risks, play around with calculations and make rational decisions around this biological, hormonal stuff. You have to understand that none of this is true. It’s just arrogance and delusion. More than half of the people in this world have barely anything bar the roof over their heads, not to Talk about medical standards, etc, and they reproduce like rabbits. It’s what we do, so now you can get rational about it and swerve it to avoid all the risks associated, but your body will be relentless for a while, always reminding you of ITS preferred choice!

So I reckon you will have a baby or two in the end, as I’ve never known a woman who didn’t answer that call once she heard it, only the women who don’t ever hear that call can remain indifferent and carry on as child-free as ever. You now have a choice: embrace all the attendant risks and dangers, feel the fear and do it anyway, or bellyache about the state of the world in general and the HSE in particular until you tire yourself out, AND you will still have a baby at the end of it all. So I heartily recommend you skip the useless bellyaching, and stick with the first option!

Eric Cartman

Id get a mortgage before having a child. If your incomes cant support a mortgage they Probably cant support a child either.

Geuze

Voltairey wrote: »

We would have so much love to give a child, but some of the time I think that it's cruel to bring a person into the world. Yeah it's an unpopular opinion, but it's something that clouds my decision to just go for it.

Poverty levels around the world have fallen dramatically.

It is not cruel to have a baby.

It is a wonderful thing.

Witcher

You don't seem in the righr headspace to have a child OP.

Deal with your anxiety issues before bringing a child into the world.

A child needs a parent not a basket case.

filbert the fox

As it's Friday 13th perhaps we should come back tomorrow!

TP_CM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Id get a mortgage before having a child. If your incomes cant support a mortgage they Probably cant support a child either.

Babies cost way less than mortgages though. It's only when they get older and start picking up hobbies like music or need things for school that they become more expensive. Although I would say even then, they aren't as expensive as Mortgages these days. Unless one buys them a new ipad every month!

Geuze

Gruffalux wrote: »

There is this very strong political motif abroad in the world these days of environmental doom, future chaos and trendy anti-natalism.

I have noticed that, and what a load of rubbish it is.

Real Life

Brandon75 wrote: »

Do you have just the one child ?
Would it put you off having another child if they had a chance to have a disability ?

I have just one child. Obviously there's always a chance any child could have a disability and id be lying if I said it wasn't something I was worried about, particularly because a close friend had a child just a while before with a serious disability that needs 24 hr care. I can't even imagine what they go through.

I can't say the chance of a disability puts me off another child, at the moment I just don't feel like having another child would be a good idea for other reasons, my partner has struggled, and had bad post natal depression. Im glad we had our baby and wouldn't change any of it, at the moment were not even thinking about more children, were just happy with our baby and working on making his and our lives as good as we possibly can.

Floppybits

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Id get a mortgage before having a child. If your incomes cant support a mortgage they Probably cant support a child either.

Probably the 2 most important things to have before having a baby secure accommodation and a job to support them. Once you have those 2 then nothing should hold you back unless you need the partner.

Everyone has been in the same boat with when is the right time to have a baby, there is no real right time all you can do is ask yourself have you got the means to accommodate and support a baby and if that is the case then that is all you need.

Voltairey

Mullaghteelin wrote: »

Now this is hysteria unless you live on one of those tiny islands that's barely above sea level. Or you insist in living on the sea front. We are not going to turn into the horrible Kevin Costner film, Waterworld.
Over the next 50 years low lying coastal margins will see increased flooding at high tide, especially during storms
It's also possible that climate change could result in an increase of productive agricultural land as areas currently too cold or too dry come into play.

https://coastal.climatecentral.org/map/12/-73.9684/40.7033/?theme=sea_level_rise&map_type=year&contiguous=true&elevation_model=best_available&forecast_year=2040&pathway=rcp45&percentile=p50&return_level=return_level_1&slr_model=kopp_2014

On that website you can get a projection with various levels of intervention/unchecked pollution.

We're thinking that once we're both working again, we'll go for the mortgage and find somewhere secure to live. Once that's sorted we'll have a baby and just do our best to protect them whatever may happen.

We've been run ragged by the last year so apologies if I seem to be very fatalistic. I possibly need to see a counsellor about my outlook on life in general.

super_furry

Voltairey wrote: »

We would have so much love to give a child, but some of the time I think that it's cruel to bring a person into the world. Yeah it's an unpopular opinion, but it's something that clouds my decision to just go for it.

Sounds like you've already made up your mind and want people to try and change it for you.

If you don't think you should kids, don't, that's fine.

Wibbs

Geuze wrote: »

I have noticed that, and what a load of rubbish it is.

Maybe it comes from our lives which though far easier than previous generations in many ways we have more things pulling at us. More media firing bad news at us. The old constants like faith and jobs for life are gone for the most part. Or because of more discussion of mental illnesses(a good thing), but whatever the reasons there's also a much greater acceptance, even encouragement of a neurotic worldview in the West. Damned near everything is a bloody "trauma" of late, or is blamed as one.

A lack of basic perspective is missing too. Death in childbirth today in the west, in Ireland? Vanishingly rare. Not so long ago generations of women got pregnant and gave birth where their chances of survival were significantly lower. Never mind the truly appalling childhood mortality. In most cultures prayers to the divine for a safe pregnancy and birth were about the most common. In Rome women first wrote out their last will and testament when they found out they were pregnant.

So in one way I can well understand a woman being worried, even "neurotic" about it. For tens of thousands of years of women's lives they had bloody good reasons to be and medical technology that reduces those risks to feck all is a little too new to overwrite those thousands of years where unlike today women's longevity was on average shorter than mens.

TL;DR? The best time to have a child is now and the world is overall getting better, not worse and Ireland is one of the safest and most supportive places on the planet to have and raise a child.

Voltairey

Wow whatever about my mental health issues, there are a lot of very mean people replying here.

Maybe ye should have a look at why you need to attack someone who is admitting that they're going through a hard time.

Necro

Mod:

OP may I suggest you start this thread in a forum that may have more appropriate responses

Personal Issues would be a better fit for you.

Closing this thread now so feel free to start a new one there.