60 supersize wind turbines for Dublin Bay

spacetweek

Zenith74 wrote: »

Have to say I am super excited about this! Wind is such an untapped resource in Ireland. I also think the sight of them from Dublin or as you fly in will fit perfectly with the modern tech city we are trying to have.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/up-to-60-supersize-wind-turbines-planned-for-dublin-bay-1.4403656?mode=amp

Although I agree, you have to understand that the majority of people will not see it that way. Generally people (esp. older ones) want to look out at the sea with nothing on the horizon. Expect huge protests.

unkel

spacetweek wrote: »

Although I agree, you have to understand that the majority of people will not see it that way. Generally people (esp. older ones) want to look out at the sea with nothing on the horizon. Expect huge protests.

Floating wind turbines in the Atlantic can be a good solution. So far out in the ocean that you couldn't even see them with the naked eye.

West coast of Ireland is one of the most suitable locations for wind farms, in the world. Wind energy is the cheapest form of electrictiy generation. We are so lucky with this natural resource. Now let's get on with it.

spacetweek

unkel wrote: »

Pity the article doesn't state the power of the generators, I presume they will be around the biggest that are available at the moment at about 15MW each.

From the article, 45-61 turbines @ 900 MW:
14.7 - 20 MW each.

unkel wrote: »

A good aim is to generate about 200-300% of our total national projected electricity needs from wind by 2030-2035

WTF? Are you saying 200-300% because you're including all the power electrified transport will need too?

AndyBoBandy

spacetweek wrote: »

WTF? Are you saying 200-300% because you're including all the power electrified transport will need too?

He's saying to generate 2-3 times more than we actually use/need.

Whatever we use now, or in the future will always be 100%, it's what we can generate above what we need at any given time, and then sell it to other countries.... Then when we have all that excess generated power, if suddenly we need more ourselves, we'll have it there on tap....

Zenith74

If you only build enough turbines to generate 100% of our requirement when they're producing their maximum output, then you'll be left short on less windy days or when repairs/maintenance are required. So you over-provision and hopefully sell any excess on windy days.

tom1ie

unkel wrote: »

It would be if we left it to the government or some semi-state company like the ESB to install them :pac:

Private sector jobby this. Purely for profit. No risk to the tax payer.

Would you stop with your ESB bashing. Quite childish tbh.

tom1ie

spacetweek wrote: »

unkel wrote: »

Pity the article doesn't state the power of the generators, I presume they will be around the biggest that are available at the moment at about 15MW each.

From the article, 45-61 turbines @ 900 MW:
14.7 - 20 MW each.


WTF? Are you saying 200-300% because you're including all the power electrified transport will need too?

So that we can sell the excess power generated via the interconnectors.

pummice

I would be more excited about this offshore windfarm, if they told me that my electricity bill would be cheaper, but thats not going to happen

Zenith74

pummice wrote: »

I would be more excited about this offshore windfarm, if they told me that my electricity bill would be cheaper, but thats not going to happen

Your savings in not having to pay for your or your family's asthma, lung cancer or other air pollution related illnesses will be worth more than any possible electricity savings.

Hyperbole aside, air pollution levels in Dublin were 1500% above WHO recommended levels last weekend, we need to stop burning **** to heat our homes, generate electricity or move our vehicles around.
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2020/1201/1181592-solid-fuel-heating-air-quality-pollution-ireland/

Tea drinker

tom1ie wrote: »

spacetweek wrote: »

So that we can sell the excess power generated via the interconnectors.

So that *they* can sell loads via interconnects. Unless you invest in windfarms yourself of course. Eyesores can the thrown all around the coast so someone else can make money off it.

the_amazing_raisin

I'm going to chuck my 2 cents in and say that this is an absolutely brilliant idea. Combine this with additional rooftop solar grants, building retrofit schemes and a pumped hydro system in the Wicklow mountains and Dublin will be set for renewable energy for the near future

AndyBoBandy

tom1ie wrote: »

So that *they* can sell loads via interconnects. Unless you invest in windfarms yourself of course. Eyesores can the thrown all around the coast so someone else can make money off it.

No one generates electricity for free, whether by wind, coal, gas, peat or Nuclear. So regardless of who generates it, of course they'll sell it. Thats why we have some of the most efficient CCGT plants in the world here.. they wouldn't just get installed because Ireland needs efficient Gas Turbines.... it's all profit for someone...

It would be just nicer if we (they) didn't have to import so much gas, coal & oil into Ireland to do so... It would also mean a few more jobs in Ireland, as opposed to the people we (they) are currently supporting in Russia/China/Middle East refining what we currently consume to generate electricity.

The State then stands a better chance of meeting their (our) carbon emission targets (agreeing with them or not is irrelevant), and dont have to pay such heavy annual fines, and perhaps re-invest that money to where it's needed.

Eyesores to some, a better future for others...

Tea drinker

pummice wrote: »

I would be more excited about this offshore windfarm, if they told me that my electricity bill would be cheaper, but thats not going to happen

You're electricity will be more expensive, as you have to subsidise building them plus keep fossil generation plant running at your expense.
Give up the views, no benefit to you... where do i sign up to this religion? If I buy green energy do I go to heaven? Look if we were all stakeholders it could be interesting, but we're just cash cows.

Zenith74

Tea drinker wrote: »

Look if we were all stakeholders it could be interesting, but we're just cash cows.

Your family’s health being damaged by the pollutants pumped into the air burning fossil fuels to make electricity you use makes you a stakeholder

unkel

Tea drinker wrote: »

You're electricity will be more expensive

Eh, no. You're :rolleyes: electricity will be cheaper as the cheapest form of electricity generation currently is wind.

the_amazing_raisin

"The view" currently consists of a pair of disused smoke stacks, 3 decommissioned power plants, a waste incinerator and a port

Frankly some distant wind turbines would be a dramatic improvement

Maybe they'll get around to demolishing most of poolbeg power station if it isn't needed after the turbines are up and running

EDIT: I forgot to mention the sewage treatment plant

Tow

cruisey1987 wrote: »

EDIT: I forgot to mention the sewage treatment plant

Hard to forget the sewage treatment plant. Which was too small the day they opened it as they forgot to take into account all the people who work in Dublin and just used the census data.

There are preservation orders on the Pigeon House and some (people) want one on the chimneys. The ESB want them knocked. It will be interesting with the development of the glass bottle site.

the_amazing_raisin

Certainly it's hard to forget the smell the sewage treatment plant

I almost wouldn't mind the chimneys being kept, you could do something fun like turn them into an observation tower with a bridge in between

They have to keep the turbines from the old power station as they're now being fed steam from the incinerator

The rest of the site could be demolished as far as I'm concerned. Total eyesore

I imagine there wouldn't be a rush of people looking to build houses out there, given the industrial nature of nearby land, and the negative press of living beside a sewage plant and waste incinerator

But it could be used as a business park (assuming we need offices ever again) or some of the port facilities could be pushed out there to free up valuable land closer to the city center

Tea drinker

unkel wrote: »

Eh, no. You're :rolleyes: electricity will be cheaper as the cheapest form of electricity generation currently is wind.

No :rolleyes: the price will be fixed and no savings will be passed to customers.
The grants to the farms will be paid by taxpayers and won't show on the electric bill, so that's another hidden expense.
Hey maybe we'll be on the hook to dispose of the toxic fluids from the gearboxes as well. so we'll lose the views and gain zilch. As alluded to the shareholders may even plant turbines here which service UK so again, the toxins will be here, the loss of nature will be here, and the profits go to shareholders.

These would be far better ran as a community scheme with a national regulator and inspector, plenty of buy in from communities if they are included.
Schemes could be ran by ESB and the relevant authorities to encourage this, financing and grants can go to locals as long as they have appropriate locations.
As the ESB will have to backstop wind energy IMHO they are the ones who should manage that proposal. But they need to stop closing plants.


https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1211/1183760-eirgrid-warning-outages/

Eirgrid said the final shut-down today of the first of two peat-burning power stations in the Midlands has been factored into their projections for supply and demand in 2021.

But the company has warned of the risk of electricity deficit situations arising in the coming months.

When the wind is not blowing, renewable generation of electricity is at a low output and if sufficient support is not available from the UK across the inter-connectors, Ireland's national grid is vulnerable.

AndyBoBandy

cruisey1987 wrote: »

They have to keep the turbines from the old power station as they're now being fed steam from the incinerator

The incinerator would have its own Steam Turbine(s), I think around 30MW, which is only a baby unit.

The Poolbeg Steamers are I believe ABB units and are around 220MW each, and are 100% decommissioned. There is no connection whatsoever between the incinerator plant and any of the Poolbeg/Ringsend power stations, apart from their respective grid connections.

the_amazing_raisin

Tea drinker wrote: »

No :rolleyes: the price will be fixed and no savings will be passed to customers.
The grants to the farms will be paid by taxpayers and won't show on the electric bill, so that's another hidden expense.
Hey maybe we'll be on the hook to dispose of the toxic fluids from the gearboxes as well. so we'll lose the views and gain zilch. As alluded to the shareholders may even plant turbines here which service UK so again, the toxins will be here, the loss of nature will be here, and the profits go to shareholders.

These would be far better ran as a community scheme with a national regulator and inspector, plenty of buy in from communities if they are included.
Schemes could be ran by ESB and the relevant authorities to encourage this, financing and grants can go to locals as long as they have appropriate locations.
As the ESB will have to backstop wind energy IMHO they are the ones who should manage that proposal. But they need to stop closing plants.


https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1211/1183760-eirgrid-warning-outages/

And yet the two cheapest energy suppliers (Energia and Airtricity) their energy from wind farms

Community run schemes are nice in principle, but they suffer from the inconvenient truth that they tend to be seriously mismanaged in Ireland and go nowhere

As for the ESB, well given this is the same ESB that went on strike every time they wanted a pay raise, built 3 peat fired power plants in the noughties knowing they were the most polluting power source available, runs Ireland's only coal power plant and sources coal from highly questionable mining companies in south america, and made a complete mess of the public EV charging network...well, you can probably understand why I don't really trust them with the job

cgcsb

Tea drinker wrote: »

No :rolleyes: the price will be fixed and no savings will be passed to customers.
The grants to the farms will be paid by taxpayers and won't show on the electric bill, so that's another hidden expense.
Hey maybe we'll be on the hook to dispose of the toxic fluids from the gearboxes as well. so we'll lose the views and gain zilch. As alluded to the shareholders may even plant turbines here which service UK so again, the toxins will be here, the loss of nature will be here, and the profits go to shareholders.

These would be far better ran as a community scheme with a national regulator and inspector, plenty of buy in from communities if they are included.
Schemes could be ran by ESB and the relevant authorities to encourage this, financing and grants can go to locals as long as they have appropriate locations.
As the ESB will have to backstop wind energy IMHO they are the ones who should manage that proposal. But they need to stop closing plants.


https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1211/1183760-eirgrid-warning-outages/

We're subsidising peat power generation which actually uses more energy than it produces and is permanently loss making. wind backed by gas and storage is the most efficient model available to us at the moment until some improvement in technology becomes available.

The community owned generation is a scam. In Germany 'communities' are basically fronts for companies wanting to invest in the sector.

Calahonda52

cgcsb wrote: »

The community owned generation is a scam. In Germany 'communities' are basically fronts for companies wanting to invest in the sector.

What jerry does is not relevant in the Irish Market.

Please dig out the ownership structures and legal framework documents of the community power set ups in Ireland and then evidence your scam claim.

to help you, I have them on my desk at the moment
Thank you.

tom1ie

cruisey1987 wrote: »

And yet the two cheapest energy suppliers (Energia and Airtricity) their energy from wind farms

Community run schemes are nice in principle, but they suffer from the inconvenient truth that they tend to be seriously mismanaged in Ireland and go nowhere

As for the ESB, well given this is the same ESB that went on strike every time they wanted a pay raise, built 3 peat fired power plants in the noughties knowing they were the most polluting power source available, runs Ireland's only coal power plant and sources coal from highly questionable mining companies in south america, and made a complete mess of the public EV charging network...well, you can probably understand why I don't really trust them with the job

The same esb that provides one of the best,(in terms of 50hz frequency,) consistent (in terms of lack of outages) and forward thinking (in terms of renewables @40% atm and forecast to hit 70% by 2030, not including the largest BES (battery energy storage) scheme connected to the grid in Europe last year!)
Your right they really are useless!
Remember the CRU set the price not the ESB.

Tow

tom1ie wrote: »

The same esb that provides one of the best,(in terms of 50hz frequency,) consistent (in terms of lack of outages) and forward thinking (in terms of renewables @40% atm and forecast to hit 70% by 2030, not including the largest BES (battery energy storage) scheme connected to the grid in Europe last year!)

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1211/1183760-eirgrid-warning-outages/

crisco10

Tea drinker wrote: »

No :rolleyes: the price will be fixed and no savings will be passed to customers.
The grants to the farms will be paid by taxpayers and won't show on the electric bill, so that's another hidden expense.
Hey maybe we'll be on the hook to dispose of the toxic fluids from the gearboxes as well. so we'll lose the views and gain zilch. As alluded to the shareholders may even plant turbines here which service UK so again, the toxins will be here, the loss of nature will be here, and the profits go to shareholders.

These would be far better ran as a community scheme with a national regulator and inspector, plenty of buy in from communities if they are included.
Schemes could be ran by ESB and the relevant authorities to encourage this, financing and grants can go to locals as long as they have appropriate locations.
As the ESB will have to backstop wind energy IMHO they are the ones who should manage that proposal. But they need to stop closing plants.


https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1211/1183760-eirgrid-warning-outages/

Correction there, any subsidy is paid from the PSO. Which does appear on your electricity bill. And the offshore prices will be fixed by an auction process (i.e. only the cheapest win) - it will not be a straight subsidy.

And regarding Gearbox oil, a significant portion of the UK Offshore turbine fleet is Direct Drive technology which doesn't even have a "mechanical" gearbox.

The J Stands for Jay

Tea drinker wrote: »

Hey maybe we'll be on the hook to dispose of the toxic fluids from the gearboxes as well.

Ok, I'm convinced to go nuclear.