Difficulty of breaking into pharma as a foreigner

bluegreen1

Hi everyone, I'm a Chinese from an Asian country. The future for pharma is bright here in Ireland and I'm hoping that I can work in Ireland in the future. I have obtained an MS and BS from the US. I was wondering if pharma companies would consider hiring foreign nationals?

Operations, especially manufacturing and quality are areas that interest me.

I do not need any kind of visa sponsorship whatsoever.

Stheno

Why don't you need a visa?

Have you an EU passport?

bluegreen1

Stheno wrote: »

Why don't you need a visa?

Have you an EU passport?

Yes

Once your able to work here they won't be bothered where you are from..... Submit your CV.... MSD have 4 or 5 sites nationwide and seem to be hiring quite a few

bluegreen1

Augeo wrote: »

Once your able to work here they won't be bothered where you are from..... Submit your CV.... MSD have 4 or 5 sites nationwide and seem to be hiring quite a few

That's good to know. I haven't seen a lot of jobs from MSD especially at the entry level, maybe I'm looking at the wrong places? I mainly use the company website, Indeed and Linkedin, and occasionally Glassdoor.

There's a load of pharma companies in Cork, far as I know they're always looking for people. They're international companies and I don't think they'll care where you're from. I'm sure there are people from all over working in those companies.

bluegreen1

Ameer Hollow Cloud wrote: »

There's a load of pharma companies in Cork, far as I know they're always looking for people. They're international companies and I don't think they'll care where you're from. I'm sure there are people from all over working in those companies.

Are those non-irish people usually in leadership positions or are they in entry level positions too?

Fluffy101

bluegreen1 wrote: »

Are those non-irish people usually in leadership positions or are they in entry level positions too?

I work in Pharma, forget about nationality... its makes zero difference. They don't care where you are from if you can do the job.

boombang

Not on the manufacturing side, but people I know at Novartis are from all over the place. They seem to have an open attitude.

Best of luck.

bluegreen1

Fluffy101 wrote: »

I work in Pharma, forget about nationality... its makes zero difference. They don't care where you are from if you can do the job.

That's good to know. Would you recommend going through recruiting agencies for an entry level job? Seems like a significant number of jobs are FTCs and through an agency. I don't really like the idea of having a non-permanent job and getting hired through an agency.

Thargor

Dont worry about your nationality, any pharma company I ever worked for are packed with Eastern Europeans/Africans/Asians/Indians etc, it makes zero difference. They're always hiring as said, MSD and Regeneron pay good money with generous shift bonuses and perks, Pfizer not far behind. They like a bit of experience though so take anything you can for the first year or so then get applying.

bluegreen1

Thargor wrote: »

Dont worry about your nationality, any pharma company I ever worked for are packed with Eastern Europeans/Africans/Asians/Indians etc, it makes zero difference. They're always hiring as said, MSD and Regeneron pay good money with generous shift bonuses and perks, Pfizer not far behind. They like a bit of experience though so take anything you can for the first year or so then get applying.

So big pharma typically do not hire people with no experience? I'm about to graduate soon so I have no experience.

MightyMunster

Try applying for the graduate programmes. All the big companies advertise them. They are also all big into diversity, equality etc so your nationality shouldn't be an obstacle.

flipflophead22

Hello folks, is anyone here working in the validation side of things in Pharma? Whats it like and are there jobs out there for it?

I was just looking at these courses/modules (springboard) and wondering would they be a good starting point? Any feedback much appreciated.

CM0004 Introduction to Validation Science & CM0005 Validation Science (UCC)
Certificate in Validation Science (CIT)

Damien360

bluegreen1 wrote: »

Hi everyone, I'm a Chinese from an Asian country. The future for pharma is bright here in Ireland and I'm hoping that I can work in Ireland in the future. I have obtained an MS and BS from the US. I was wondering if pharma companies would consider hiring foreign nationals?

Operations, especially manufacturing and quality are areas that interest me.

I do not need any kind of visa sponsorship whatsoever.

Nationality doesn’t matter a damn. Ability to read, write and speak English is a close second to experience. You must be able to read and understand SOP’s. Experience shows you can do that. Very difficult for someone green, straight out of college to get a start but it does happen.

Damien360

flipflophead22 wrote: »

Hello folks, is anyone here working in the validation side of things in Pharma? Whats it like and are there jobs out there for it?

I was just looking at these courses/modules (springboard) and wondering would they be a good starting point? Any feedback much appreciated.

CM0004 Introduction to Validation Science & CM0005 Validation Science (UCC)
Certificate in Validation Science (CIT)

Process validation and equipment validation is the support service internally for manufacturing and testing. Often a core group of people. Less than 10% of Quality Control numbers and a lot less in the manufacturing side of the business. As a rule unfortunately, most of these jobs require a degree on the QC side and I’m not sure about the manufacturing side. There would be people in that group without any qualification as support also but experience often gets them there. I would value vast experience over qualification every day. The cert is a starting point for the next course or an addition to your current qualification.

bluegreen1

MightyMunster wrote: »

Try applying for the graduate programmes. All the big companies advertise them. They are also all big into diversity, equality etc so your nationality shouldn't be an obstacle.

They're all incredibly competitive. I've applied to a few but I'm not counting on getting an offer from them.

bluegreen1

Damien360 wrote: »

Nationality doesn’t matter a damn. Ability to read, write and speak English is a close second to experience. You must be able to read and understand SOP’s. Experience shows you can do that. Very difficult for someone green, straight out of college to get a start but it does happen.

Thank you. I've spent quite some time studying in the US so I think that my english should be fine. What's the best way to get experience then?

Damien360

bluegreen1 wrote: »

Thank you. I've spent quite some time studying in the US so I think that my english should be fine. What's the best way to get experience then?

That unfortunately is the problem. Lots of graduates spend a lot of time hunting for that elusive first job. Be prepared to travel anywhere. You must have a car to be able to do that. Public transport in Dublin and probably Cork is fine but anywhere else is hit and miss. Watch out for new builds/startups. They will take anyone to fill a vacancy.

Stheno

bluegreen1 wrote: »

Thank you. I've spent quite some time studying in the US so I think that my english should be fine. What's the best way to get experience then?

Are you currently in the US?

bluegreen1

Damien360 wrote: »

That unfortunately is the problem. Lots of graduates spend a lot of time hunting for that elusive first job. Be prepared to travel anywhere. You must have a car to be able to do that. Public transport in Dublin and probably Cork is fine but anywhere else is hit and miss. Watch out for new builds/startups. They will take anyone to fill a vacancy.

I have no idea it's that difficult to find a job as a fresh graduate. My thinking was that entry level positions usually do what other people consider as 'mindless grunt work', hence not much training is needed. Add in shift work, most people would probably leave when they can get a better job elsewhere. At least in the US, I know that a ton of pharma companies hire fresh graduates with no experience.

bluegreen1

Stheno wrote: »

Are you currently in the US?

Yes

Stheno

bluegreen1 wrote: »

Yes

That will severely limit the chances of an interview in Ireland imo

Damien360

bluegreen1 wrote: »

I have no idea it's that difficult to find a job as a fresh graduate. My thinking was that entry level positions usually do what other people consider as 'mindless grunt work', hence not much training is needed. Add in shift work, most people would probably leave when they can get a better job elsewhere. At least in the US, I know that a ton of pharma companies hire fresh graduates with no experience.

If you can, get your experience in the US as it appears from your post to be easier to get a start.

Thargor

bluegreen1 wrote: »

So big pharma typically do not hire people with no experience? I'm about to graduate soon so I have no experience.

Oh God no dont take it that way, practically my whole team in one of the big names I mentioned are straight out of college with no experience its just they're all contract workers, if they had experience they'd start as permanent. They'll be made permanent when they finish their contracts and prove they arent completely useless.

They do prefer experience in the big ones like MSD and Pfizer though but definitely apply to them aswell, your nationality will be a plus, diversity is a big deal to the HR departments in these places.

PPD in Athlone and Trinity Biotech in Bray are 2 names I can think of who will take anyone straight out of college and train them up, good places to get your first year of experience, after that you'll walk into jobs. Apply everywhere on Linkedin and reach out to recruiters, you'll get something, everywhere is short staffed at the minute.

Thargor

If you're in the US applying to Ireland with no experience you're going to struggle even if Covid wasnt a thing. Get a job over there or else move to Ireland first.

bluegreen1

Stheno wrote: »

That will severely limit the chances of an interview in Ireland imo

Yeah, I'm expecting that to happen. I mean I'm willing to relocate on my own expenses so I don't know if they will consider that.

begbysback

I had a mate once who broke into pharma, 18 months they gave him, and he was Irish.

Stheno

bluegreen1 wrote: »

Yeah, I'm expecting that to happen. I mean I'm willing to relocate on my own expenses so I don't know if they will consider that.

You'll need to relocate here before you get a job

bluegreen1

Damien360 wrote: »

If you can, get your experience in the US as it appears from your post to be easier to get a start.

I'm only allowed to work for 3 years in the US and a lot of companies don't want employees with an expiration date. Honestly, I might have an easier time finding a job in Ireland than the US, but I won't know that until I get closer to graduation and really start to send out applications.

The guy in the white house oval office is trying to get rid of the work authorisation for international students as well. They might even kick me out next year since all my classes are online, so a lot of things are up in the air.

flipflophead22

Anyone in the computer validation side of things?

bluegreen1

Stheno wrote: »

You'll need to relocate here before you get a job

If I can relocate quickly, would that be fine? I mean some other graduates might have to relocate from Cork to Dublin.

Stheno

bluegreen1 wrote: »

If I can relocate quickly, would that be fine? I mean some other graduates might have to relocate from Cork to Dublin.

It won't be quick

You'll have to move here first, probably rent an Airbnb initially. When you get here you'll have to quarantine for two weeks

Then you'll need a bank account and social security number

All in all about six weeks before you'll have everything you'll need to even apply for a job

Moving from Dublin to Cork is a cakewalk in comparison

bluegreen1

Stheno wrote: »

It won't be quick

You'll have to move here first, probably rent an Airbnb initially. When you get here you'll have to quarantine for two weeks

Then you'll need a bank account and social security number

All in all about six weeks before you'll have everything you'll need to even apply for a job

Moving from Dublin to Cork is a cakewalk in comparison

Quarantine will probably be lifted by the time I graduate. I'm thinking that most jobs offer people 1-2 months in advance?

Stheno

bluegreen1 wrote: »

Quarantine will probably be lifted by the time I graduate. I'm thinking that most jobs offer people 1-2 months in advance?

You don't seem to be getting the message here? You'll need to be living here to apply for a job

And I wouldn't bank on quarantine being lifted in relation to the US given the state its in

Contract jobs can give as little as a few days notice in terms of offers

bluegreen1

Stheno wrote: »

You don't seem to be getting the message here? You'll need to be living here to apply for a job

And I wouldn't bank on quarantine being lifted in relation to the US given the state its in

Contract jobs can give as little as a few days notice in terms of offers

I'm not really understanding this, if I can get the bank account stuff done relatively quickly and have all the stuff required to work, wouldn't that be fine?

I can see that there'll be a tight timeline but I don't think it's something that's unachievable.

Kia_Kaha

Stheno wrote: »

You don't seem to be getting the message here? You'll need to be living here to apply for a job

Recruiter here who's worked with some of the biggest pharma companies in Ireland. OP you don't *have to be in Ireland to *apply* for a job but it will be *much harder* for you to get an offer if you aren't in the country. Why would a company want to take the risk of hiring someone in another country when you can hire someone living 5 mins down the road?

Secondly if you are looking at entry-level roles, you will find it tough. I'd consider taking an entry-level role as a technician or operator to get a foot in the door and take it from there.

First things first: If you are serious about it, you need to get back to Ireland because there is pretty much zero chance you'll get offered something if you are outside the country, unless you were at a very senior level (and even then it's not ideal).

Anyway, the very best of luck.

Stheno

bluegreen1 wrote: »

I'm not really understanding this, if I can get the bank account stuff done relatively quickly and have all the stuff required to work, wouldn't that be fine?

I can see that there'll be a tight timeline but I don't think it's something that's unachievable.

Do some research

1. You need to move here
2. You need a bank account which will require proof of your address and the proof is limited to a couple of options
3. You'll need a social security number

All of that takes time there is nothing quick at play here.

Stheno

And to give you some perspective where I work we regularly hire from abroad and relocate them

These are pretty senior people on very large salaries

The company pays for their relocation and provides accommodation for 3 months

On average it takes one of these people four months to get everything settled

bluegreen1

Stheno wrote: »

And to give you some perspective where I work we regularly hire from abroad and relocate them

These are pretty senior people on very large salaries

The company pays for their relocation and provides accommodation for 3 months

On average it takes one of these people four months to get everything settled

That makes sense, thanks for the advice. I might have to do a bit more planning.

JustAThought

You also will beed to be able to demonstrate to recruiters that you can pass a medical, have completed the quarrentine needed by government, and offer a low chance of of infection transmission based on where you have come from - people here are increasingly concerned about contamination risk particularly from high risk overseas countries including in particular the usa. Why should a
company put its existing Irish enterprise, fabrication line or employees at risk or at risk of needing self isolation in a bouyant employer hiring market when someone from abroad wants a job here. There are plenty of well skilled Irish who offer less risk and are as employable.

Also international quarrentine requirements and the current restriction of movement due to lockdown - not to mention the ever abysmal public transport and decreasing capacity on public transport. And 5k restriction on movement ‘locally’ which coild be reduced to 2k at any given time pike happened some months ago.

And do you have a car - or the money to bankroll one and the extortinate insurance for a non national with no insurance record in Ireland which may make it up to 2k pa to insure a car for your first few years here - are you able/licenced to drive in Ireland?

etc

Also beware the standard pharma trick of 10
months contract with a break - leaving you to have to re-apply with your colleagues for the same entry level job after 10 months and creating an annual breaK in your employment history that will always leave you with a 2 month gap, no security of tenure and no employee rights. Standard big pharma practice here and a a disgrace.

Thargor

JustAThought wrote: »

Also beware the standard pharma trick of 10
months contract with a break - leaving you to have to re-apply with your colleagues for the same entry level job after 10 months and creating an annual breaK in your employment history that will always leave you with a 2 month gap, no security of tenure and no employee rights. Standard big pharma practice here and a a disgrace.

That is not standard practice here, what company does that? Is that even legal in Ireland?

GalwayGrrrrrl

bluegreen1 wrote: »

I'm not really understanding this, if I can get the bank account stuff done relatively quickly and have all the stuff required to work, wouldn't that be fine?

I can see that there'll be a tight timeline but I don't think it's something that's unachievable.

As someone who relocated to Ireland from another European country be warned - nothing is done quickly here.
However, if you want to come make sure you have savings to get you through the first few months and then apply for jobs. Take a look at medical devices as well as pharma companies - for example Galway has Medtronic, Boston Scientific and Creganna (and more). I’m not sure how easy it is to transfer to pharma from these companies but it might widen your options to start with.

If you ask anyone working in recruitment, they get hundreds if not thousands of random contacts from people all over the work looking for a job in Ireland, a lot not seeming to understand the requirements for a visa or even the qualifications needed for the role.

That is a big part of why the OP needs to move here first before approaching a recruitment company.

Mrs OBumble

Thargor wrote: »

That is not standard practice here, what company does that? Is that even legal in Ireland?

It's totally legal, and common for product builder jobs through agencies. But not relevant for the type of jobs the OP is targeting.

Victor

Also look at the supply chain - designers (Jacobs Engineering and Project Management) subcontractors and suppliers.