VW ID.3 vs Kia eNiro (vs Tesla Model 3)

jasonc5432

Hi folks

I come to beg you to share your views and expertise. I'm not gonna lie to you, I literally cannot choose between the VW ID.3 and the Kia eNiro. I'm definitely getting an EV before end of year 2020. In normal times I would potentially need to do an average of 2 long commutes per week (225km round trip). During current times I doubt I'll have any long commutes worth speaking of for at least a year or two. I don't have kids or plan to. I have test driven both cars and love both for different reasons. It has to be a new car.

Please help me make what is a difficult decision and an expensive one too.

Also, I am open to being convinced about the Tesla Model 3 as an option but I can't spend over 50k euro before grants.

Your views are very much appreciated folks!

By the way I'm completely new to EVs and have found all of your views on Boards invaluable recently as I try to make the right purchase.

Thanks for your help

jusmeig

jasonc5432 wrote: »

Also, I am open to being convinced about the Tesla Model 3 as an option but I can't spend over 50k euro before grants.

Thanks for your help

Well, it's not a bad decision to have to make or a bad place to be in

I have kids and own a Model 3, and still find it a very spacious/practical car.
I will caveat that you cannot load big things into the booth, as the opening is not as big as the Kia/ID3 as they are hatchbacks. But I don't load big things into my booth, my bikes and a double buggy and it all fits, so i'm happy.

I guess it's down to personal taste if practically is not an issue, I don't like the shape of SUVs. If the ID3 was out back when I got my car, I may well have bought one (and forgiven VW).

If you like tech -> Model 3, ID3 is a little glitchy as it's new but improving. Cannot comment on KIA.
If you like actual buttons, don't get a Model 3
If you like frantic acceleration and speed -> All are quick, but Model 3 win the race
Practicality: Kia/ID3//Model 3

Good luck with your decision!!

jasonc5432

Thanks for your reply mate. Is there a model 3 available for 50k or under before grants? I find EV pricing lists generally confusing in this regard.

People tell me to avoid Tesla because:
- No after sales
- No physical dealerships
- expensive to repair/maintain

I don't know if any of that is true. If you have any thoughts I'd be very appreciative

jusmeig

jasonc5432 wrote: »

Thanks for your reply mate. Is there a model 3 available for 50k or under before grants? I find EV pricing lists generally confusing in this regard.

People tell me to avoid Tesla because:
- No after sales
- No physical dealerships
- expensive to repair/maintain

I don't know if any of that is true. If you have any thoughts I'd be very appreciative

Not before the grants no, but after grant is applied the price is:
€46,782. In relation to the other things:

• No after sales -> For what like? Buying extras etc? I have had no problems at all in 9 months, so cannot comment on support etc, but they have Rangers that come to your location and can fix most things. Other owners on the Model 3 forum seem happy enough.
• No physical dealerships -> There is one in Sandyford, I live in Dublin so if walking into a dealership close to you is important, than this is not ideal unless u are close to Dublin.
• Expensive to repair/maintain -> Yes, it is more expensive as it's a pricier car. I would note -> being an EV it will have low maintenance costs in general!

jasonc5432

jusmeig wrote: »

Not before the grants no, but after grant is applied the price is:
€46,782. In relation to the other things:

• No after sales -> For what like? Buying extras etc? I have had no problems at all in 9 months, so cannot comment on support etc, but they have Rangers that come to your location and can fix most things. Other owners on the Model 3 forum seem happy enough.
• No physical dealerships -> There is one in Sandyford, I live in Dublin so if walking into a dealership close to you is important, than this is not ideal unless u are close to Dublin.
• Expensive to repair/maintain -> Yes, it is more expensive as it's a pricier car. I would note -> being an EV it will have low maintenance costs in general!

That's very informative. I have always always wanted a Tesla since the first Model S to be honest. So if you are saying that the price is circa 56k before grants then unfortunately the dream is unobtainable for a few years yet at least?

I did see the circa 46k price on the tesla website but I struggle to make sense of EV pricing because different brands seem to list their prices differently

jusmeig

jasonc5432 wrote: »

That's very informative. I have always always wanted a Tesla since the first Model S to be honest. So if you are saying that the price is circa 56k before grants then unfortunately the dream is unobtainable for a few years yet at least?

I did see the circa 46k price on the tesla website but I struggle to make sense of EV pricing because different brands seem to list their prices differently

In the bottom left of the site toggle to CASH, and then click on estimate payment, and you get a breakdown.

Cash Price
€ 46,782
Includes VAT of approx. € 8,499
Includes destination and documentation fee of € 980
Includes Vehicle Registration Tax of € 2,812
Includes SEAI grant of - € 5,000

jusmeig

€51,782 -> Before the grant...you can swing it.
They have decent finance with AIB, probably helped a lot of us out...

Lumen

This might be useful, or not.

Tesla M3 vs Kia e-Niro, tldr alert
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=110877337

A couple of things have changed since then. I got my M3LR in March, and it's now done 19,000km. I love it even more than I expected. The most unexpectedly best thing is how nice it is at very low speed, e.g. crawling through towns.

It's also great to "camp" in, e.g. when I take my kids to sports training or matches far away, I can just sit comfily for an hour watching Netflix or whatever and it doesn't "turn off" like our other car, a Kia Sportage. I actually think this is something worth testing in any EV, it's not something to take for granted and depends on how the low and high voltage batteries are connected and managed.

Also since then the ID.3 has come along, and it seems better that I'd expected. Importantly, it has reasonably priced access to Ionity, which for both the Kia and Tesla is extortionately expensive (79c/kWh). Now that is arguably a price worth bearing in the Tesla, when you're charging at 100-150kW for 20 mins or so. But in an e-Niro, spending an hour sitting charging and getting a €45 bill is completely unacceptable IMO.

So I think the VW now has the edge over the Kia due to charging speed and cheaper access to Ionity, but I haven't thought about this too deeply.

It also might be worth waiting for a Chinese Model 3 SR+, because the LFP battery is happier being held near 100%, so you get to use more of the range more of the time. It actually makes the LR seem bad value or completely redundant, because I tend to avoid charging that to more than 80%, which gives almost the same capacity as the SR+ at 100%.

I still love the power and AWD of the LR though, and because it does lots of planned 300km+ days where I can schedule departure charging to 95%, I do make use of almost all of the range.

ELM327

No comparison, get the m3

jusmeig

ELM327 wrote: »

No comparison, get the m3

You could summarize all my posts into that one short line
I'm just delighted to see more EVs on the roads.

jasonc5432

jusmeig wrote: »

€51,782 -> Before the grant...you can swing it.
They have decent finance with AIB, probably helped a lot of us out...

Thanks again for this information. Unfortunately, if the pre-grants price is anything above 50k euro, it is outside of my budget. I have gotten used to talking in pre-grant prices because I had a chat with a sales rep once who was talking about a price of 51k, but that turned out to be after the grants.

I wish the Tesla model 3, pre grant price, was below 50k but it looks like it is outside my budget sadly.

However, this does mean that it seems to be between the ID.3 and the eNiro. It is a very difficult choice

Lumen

jasonc5432 wrote: »

However, this does mean that it seems to be between the ID.3 and the eNiro. It is a very difficult choice

I don't think it is a difficult choice.

The ID.3 is a technically superior car as it's RWD and charges faster. The icing on the cake is cheaper Ionity charging.

The specifics of range, performance and trim depend on what options you pick on the ID.3. I haven't looked at the options list much but I think it has things like LED matrix headlights which are not available on the Kia AFAIK.

As I see it the Kia is a good car but the ID.3 is better, but I guess the value for money will depend on how you spec the ID.3.

ELM327

jasonc5432 wrote: »

Thanks again for this information. Unfortunately, if the pre-grants price is anything above 50k euro, it is outside of my budget. I have gotten used to talking in pre-grant prices because I had a chat with a sales rep once who was talking about a price of 51k, but that turned out to be after the grants.

I wish the Tesla model 3, pre grant price, was below 50k but it looks like it is outside my budget sadly.

However, this does mean that it seems to be between the ID.3 and the eNiro. It is a very difficult choice

Between the id3 and eniro I'd pick the eniro. It's a better put together car, more space, and despite the slightly slower (105kW vs 77kW) fast charging speed and more expensive Ionity rate (as you won't need to fast charge much with >400km range) I'd pick the eniro.

jasonc5432

Lumen wrote: »

This might be useful, or not.

Tesla M3 vs Kia e-Niro, tldr alert
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=110877337

A couple of things have changed since then. I got my M3LR in March, and it's now done 19,000km. I love it even more than I expected. The most unexpectedly best thing is how nice it is at very low speed, e.g. crawling through towns.

It's also great to "camp" in, e.g. when I take my kids to sports training or matches far away, I can just sit comfily for an hour watching Netflix or whatever and it doesn't "turn off" like our other car, a Kia Sportage. I actually think this is something worth testing in any EV, it's not something to take for granted and depends on how the low and high voltage batteries are connected and managed.

Also since then the ID.3 has come along, and it seems better that I'd expected. Importantly, it has reasonably priced access to Ionity, which for both the Kia and Tesla is extortionately expensive (79c/kWh). Now that is arguably a price worth bearing in the Tesla, when you're charging at 100-150kW for 20 mins or so. But in an e-Niro, spending an hour sitting charging and getting a €45 bill is completely unacceptable IMO.

So I think the VW now has the edge over the Kia due to charging speed and cheaper access to Ionity, but I haven't thought about this too deeply.

It also might be worth waiting for a Chinese Model 3 SR+, because the LFP battery is happier being held near 100%, so you get to use more of the range more of the time. It actually makes the LR seem bad value or completely redundant, because I tend to avoid charging that to more than 80%, which gives almost the same capacity as the SR+ at 100%.

I still love the power and AWD of the LR though, and because it does lots of planned 300km+ days where I can schedule departure charging to 95%, I do make use of almost all of the range.

Thanks for this; I hadn't actually realised that Ionity charging prices vary based on brand of car!

Do other public chargers also differentiate their prices based on brand of car?

When you say the ID.3 is faster to charge than the eNiro, why is this?

jasonc5432

ELM327 wrote: »

Between the id3 and eniro I'd pick the eniro. It's a better put together car, more space, and despite the slightly slower (105kW vs 77kW) fast charging speed and more expensive Ionity rate (as you won't need to fast charge much with >400km range) I'd pick the eniro.

I'm a bit confused about the range on both. The eNiro is supposed to get 455km approx and the ID3 is supposed to get 420km approx. Are these trustworthy? Provided I drive normally and not like a racing car?

If I was commuting to work (post Covid) I'd expect about a 235km round trip each day with approximately:
- 80km of that done at 90kmh ave
- 120km of that done at 120kmh ave
- 35km of that done at 0-10kmh ave

I understand that in the above the 120kmh parts might have to be reduced somewhat. I am just stating roughly the normal that I would do in an ICE in average congestion

jordan191

jasonc5432 wrote: »

I'm a bit confused about the range on both. The eNiro is supposed to get 455km approx and the ID3 is supposed to get 420km approx. Are these trustworthy? Provided I drive normally and not like a racing car?

If I was commuting to work (post Covid) I'd expect about a 235km round trip each day with approximately:
- 80km of that done at 90kmh ave
- 120km of that done at 120kmh ave
- 35km of that done at 0-10kmh ave

I understand that in the above the 120kmh parts might have to be reduced somewhat. I am just stating roughly the normal that I would do in an ICE in average congestion

I'd say take a 100km off those manufacturers figures for winter range or 120km/hr motorway driving, not a hope the standard id3 will do 420kms unless you're driving like miss daisy with the heating off

jasonc5432

jordan191 wrote: »

I'd say take a 100km off those manufacturers figures for winter range or 120km/hr motorway driving, not a hope the standard id3 will do 420kms unless you're driving like miss daisy with the heating off

I heard something about the eNiro being particularly consistent at achieving close to it's 455 range even when driven differently. Is this true? Is it more reliable than the ID3 in that regard? Or have I heard wrong

Lumen

As a very rough rule of thumb, a reasonably efficient EV will do 25kW/100km at 120kph once you account for the fact that you won't be running it from 100% to 0%.

So for a 235km motorway commute 58kWh would do it, but the fact that you have half the journey on slower roads would give extra breathing room for wet, cold and windy weather as most cars will achieve their WLTP consumption at 90kph.

jasonc5432

Lumen wrote: »

As a very rough rule of thumb, a reasonably efficient EV will do 25kW/100km at 120kph once you account for the fact that you won't be running it from 100% to 0%.

So for a 235km motorway commute 58kWh would do it, but the fact that you have half the journey on slower roads would give extra breathing room for wet, cold and windy weather as most cars will achieve their WLTP consumption at 90kph.

Thanks again for all this good information.

Am I correct in assuming that most EV drivers try to avoid 120kph?

Also, does type of acceleration (e.g. rapid vs slow acceleration) make any/much difference?

markpb

jasonc5432 wrote: »

Am I correct in assuming that most EV drivers try to avoid 120kph?

Nope! It depends on your situation. If driving at 100kph means that you can make your trip without charging, then maybe. If you have to change anyway or if you can use charging at/near your destination, drive as fast as you want.

Lumen

I often drive at exactly 120 GPS speed whereas I used to drive at 130kph indicated in my fossil (about 124kph).

It's not that I need the range, it just seems wasteful to drive faster.

MightyMunster

jasonc5432 wrote: »

Thanks again for all this good information.

Am I correct in assuming that most EV drivers try to avoid 120kph?

Also, does type of acceleration (e.g. rapid vs slow acceleration) make any/much difference?

Definitely no need to limit speed in the newer EVs with larger batteries. Recent trip Dublin to Cork in a Model 3 was around 18kw/100km compared to my average over the year of around 14.
Acceleration does make a difference as it does in any car.

Try out the driver aids like adaptive cruise control if you're going to be doing such high mileage. Find the Tesla one way better than the Hyundai Ioniq I had previously (possible the Eniro is slightly better/newer?)

ELM327

the eniro is a lot closer to getting its 450 km in real world range vs the id3

eagerv

I have had no problem getting WLTP in my ID.3 in real world driving, but very little motorways in my part of the world..


I am not an early morning driver, temperatures not too bad so far when I go..
After driving our Ioniq for about 7 months, the computer records the ID.3 about 10% less efficient at a steady speed. I can live with that given the extra power and fun..

ewj1978

Have an i3 and a e-soul (64kwh). both get ~17kw/100k while driving at 100kph. Esoul gives 400km range in the winter.

jordan191

i'm currently driving a model 3 performance on 18" wheels & am getting 430-450 kms from a full charge, did a 220km trip today mostly motorway M4 & M50 at 115-120km/hr and used around 55%

Model 3, a lot faster

Model 3 Autopilot that receives updates with option to FSD when it improves.

Model 3 for the ability to warm the battery in winter for fast charging ( other cars slow down dramatically when the battery is cold ) but if cold the charging speed will also slow, but it has the option to heat it other cars do not allow heating of the battery for charging at a fast charger, in fact I know of no other EV that has this feature.

Remains to be seen how the id.3 handles cold battery charging, it does heat the battery but under what conditions remain unknown for now.

Model 3 has a nicer interior, google maps, better infotainment altogether.

46.5 K with potential for further price reduction if we get the LiFeP04 battery but this is rumour for now but there is a strong possibility Europe will get the LiFeP04 battery which should have a really long life.

Lumen

Deleted User wrote: »

Model 3 for the ability to warm the battery in winter for fast charging ( other cars slow down dramatically when the battery is cold ) but if cold the charging speed will also slow, but it has the option to heat it other cars do not allow heating of the battery for charging at a fast charger, in fact I know of no other EV that has this feature.

Unfortunately this still only works on Tesla Superchargers, not Ionity or ESB 150kW, and there is no manual override.

So, as with Superchargers generally, the value depends on whether there happen to be any on your routes. In my case, going around the south east of the country, there are not really, apart from the odd trip to Cashel. The routes between Dublin, Wexford, Carlow, Waterford, and Kilkenny have none.

TitianGerm

Lads the OP said he can't spend over €50k on a car before grants so there's no point recommending cars over his budget.

jasonc5432

The Tesla does sound fantastic but does also seem to be outside my budget.

So I'm still stuck on the ID3 vs eNiro decision. It might yet come down to flipping a coin!! haha

JPA

12 or 13 grand roughly between Model 3 and iD3, I wouldn't stick them together in the same conversation.

ted1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

46.5 K with potential for further price reduction if we get the LiFeP04 battery but this is rumour for now but there is a strong possibility Europe will get the LiFeP04 battery which should have a really long life.

LFP is the accepted. TLA, isn’t it well believed that Tesla are just going to pocket the difference.

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

Unfortunately this still only works on Tesla Superchargers, not Ionity or ESB 150kW, and there is no manual override.

So, as with Superchargers generally, the value depends on whether there happen to be any on your routes. In my case, going around the south east of the country, there are not really, apart from the odd trip to Cashel. The routes between Dublin, Wexford, Carlow, Waterford, and Kilkenny have none.

I'm not sure about this, Bjorn has a video clearly showing the stators heating the battery while the car was on but stationary and I don't think he inputted any super charger.

I'll see if I can dig it up later.

ted1

ted1 wrote: »

LFP is the accepted. TLA, isn’t it well believed that Tesla are just going to pocket the difference.

I'm not sure about that, he just cut the cost of the model S something like 4,000 USD not sure if that will be the case outside the U.S.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not sure about this, Bjorn has a video clearly showing the stators heating the battery while the car was on but stationary and I don't think he inputted any super charger.

I'll see if I can dig it up later.

If you navigate to the supercharger it does this. You can also navigate to a 3rd party charger via the charging section of the map and it does it

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

If you navigate to the supercharger it does this. You can also navigate to a 3rd party charger via the charging section of the map and it does it

The M3 ?

ted1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm not sure about that, he just cut the cost of the model S something like 4,000 USD not sure if that will be the case outside the U.S.

In response to Lucid. As stated on his tweet.

https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1316454051693895680?lang=en

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

The M3 ?

Yup

championc

jasonc5432 wrote: »

However, this does mean that it seems to be between the ID.3 and the eNiro. It is a very difficult choice

At that point, it's somewhat down to looks, as to what appeals to you.

You've got a car vs compact suv

But interiors are quite different. So you either like the standard "car" type look and layout in the e-Niro, or the more spaceship cockpit of an ID3

If you could live with either, and if you don't expect to require using fast charging very much, then it seems you're possibly down to range for price. Does the ID3 model you've chosen have the same range of the e-Niro ?

I have an e-Niro and for the "car" interior, I went for it over the Kona

dunnerc

Hi would the VW ID3 , have a range of 300km Dublin - Donegal on a full charge all seasons and conditions ?

jordan191

Would you look into buying a second hand model 3 from the UK, probably have an SR+ landed here for 40-42k, very little vrt on them & you'd still have the balance of the tesla 4 year warranty

in terms of the model 3, the OTA software updates are brilliant & i see that there are lots of software issues with the ID3, I think it might take a while for VW to catch up on that front

ELM327

jordan191 wrote: »

Would you look into buying a second hand model 3 from the UK, probably have an SR+ landed here for 40-42k, very little vrt on them & you'd still have the balance of the tesla 4 year warranty

in terms of the model 3, the OTA software updates are brilliant & i see that there are lots of software issues with the ID3, I think it might take a while for VW to catch up on that front

If you're doing that you['d want to do it before the vrt changes in Jan '21

Silent Running

I've ordered an ID.3 Tour to replace my e-Niro. Delivery Jan/Feb.

Having done extensive test driving on the VW, it's not as efficient as the Kia. I did the same trip in both and the Kia came in at 16.1kWh/100km. In the VW I struggled to get it down into the high 18's. I can live with this as the Tour has 77kWh usable and charges at 125kW. I'm big into efficiency, and nobody does it better than the Koreans.

E-Niro has more storage if you include the 'frunk' storage. Seating space seems about the same, but no possibility of storage under the ID.3 bonnet.

Currently the tech in the VW is poor, but a promise of this being solved early next year with a comprehensive update.

I discounted the Tesla before I bought the e-Niro. I simply don't want a car without a hatchback.

So, stuff I'll miss from the e-Niro.
The 4 levels of regen at your fingertips, with all regen features available on the steering wheel paddles.
Storage under the bonnet.
Ability to carry a spare wheel. I don't think I'll be able to fit it in the VW.

Stuff I'll get in the ID.3.
Matrix LED headlights.
Rear wheel drive.
Bigger battery.
125kW charging.
More airy cabin.
2,000kWh free Ionity charging :P

jordan191

I must get a test drive in an Id3 for the crack I drove the e Niro and kona and they were both a bit meh.... Kona was cheap inside and e Niro just plain boring typical eco box neither felt like a car I wanted to spend a lot of time behind the wheel

jasonc5432

championc wrote: »

At that point, it's somewhat down to looks, as to what appeals to you.

You've got a car vs compact suv

But interiors are quite different. So you either like the standard "car" type look and layout in the e-Niro, or the more spaceship cockpit of an ID3

If you could live with either, and if you don't expect to require using fast charging very much, then it seems you're possibly down to range for price. Does the ID3 model you've chosen have the same range of the e-Niro ?

I have an e-Niro and for the "car" interior, I went for it over the Kona

Regarding the range, it seems to be the case that the 58kw ID3 is about 40-100km shorter on range capacity (depending on what you read).

jasonc5432

dunnerc wrote: »

Hi would the VW ID3 , have a range of 300km Dublin - Donegal on a full charge all seasons and conditions ?

The official 58kw ID3 range is around 420km. However I have had a few people who seem more informed and knowledgeable than me anyway tell me that 350km might be more realistic. I can't say for sure having not had any chance to properly test both in this way. Maybe some actual ID3 or Eniro owners might tell us what the "real world" range is if you include motorways etc (Not just city driving)?

jasonc5432

jordan191 wrote: »

Would you look into buying a second hand model 3 from the UK, probably have an SR+ landed here for 40-42k, very little vrt on them & you'd still have the balance of the tesla 4 year warranty

in terms of the model 3, the OTA software updates are brilliant & i see that there are lots of software issues with the ID3, I think it might take a while for VW to catch up on that front

I'm sticking with new only (Not second hand) because I don't have the time for the research etc. So I suppose it makes it a somewhat simpler choice to stick with new only.

The software issues on the ID3 do sound a bit mad considering the nature of them and the fact it's a reputable manufacturer. There is a risk I suppose. One assumes vw will fix the issue but it's a question of if and when. I haven't heard of many problems with the Eniro but it doesn't seem to be flawless either

championc

jasonc5432 wrote: »

The official ID3 range is around 420km. However I have had a few people who seem more informed and knowledgeable than me anyway tell me that 350km might be more realistic. I can't say for sure having not had any chance to properly test both in this way. Maybe some actual ID3 or Eniro owners might tell us what the "real world" range is if you include motorways etc (Not just city driving)?

When I charge my e-Niro, I get 475km at present. In the UK, where they have more motorways and dual carriageways, I think you could safely say that you'd absolutely get at least 420km

jasonc5432

Silent Running wrote: »

I've ordered an ID.3 Tour to replace my e-Niro. Delivery Jan/Feb.

Having done extensive test driving on the VW, it's not as efficient as the Kia. I did the same trip in both and the Kia came in at 16.1kWh/100km. In the VW I struggled to get it down into the high 18's. I can live with this as the Tour has 77kWh usable and charges at 125kW. I'm big into efficiency, and nobody does it better than the Koreans.

E-Niro has more storage if you include the 'frunk' storage. Seating space seems about the same, but no possibility of storage under the ID.3 bonnet.

Currently the tech in the VW is poor, but a promise of this being solved early next year with a comprehensive update.

I discounted the Tesla before I bought the e-Niro. I simply don't want a car without a hatchback.

So, stuff I'll miss from the e-Niro.
The 4 levels of regen at your fingertips, with all regen features available on the steering wheel paddles.
Storage under the bonnet.
Ability to carry a spare wheel. I don't think I'll be able to fit it in the VW.

Stuff I'll get in the ID.3.
Matrix LED headlights.
Rear wheel drive.
Bigger battery.
125kW charging.
More airy cabin.
2,000kWh free Ionity charging :P

Thanks for a very comprehensive post. Wow I didn't think there'd be too many people trading one of the options for another considering how new they both are. Do you have the 2019 eNiro or the 2020 model because isn't the 2020 model meant to be a big improvement?

When you say the ID3 tech is poor can you elaborate?

Are the matrix lights and rear wheel drive really good do you think? I'm no expert

TitianGerm

jasonc5432 wrote: »

Thanks for a very comprehensive post. Wow I didn't think there'd be too many people trading one of the options for another considering how new they both are. Do you have the 2019 eNiro or the 2020 model because isn't the 2020 model meant to be a big improvement?

When you say the ID3 tech is poor can you elaborate?

Are the matrix lights and rear wheel drive really good do you think? I'm no expert

ID3 is on buggy software at the moment. There is meant to be a big update in January.

jasonc5432

championc wrote: »

When I charge my e-Niro, I get 475km at present. In the UK, where they have more motorways and dual carriageways, I think you could safely say that you'd absolutely get at least 420km

475 is incredible!