BMW X5 45e

jayo3328

I dont think there is an X5 45e thread here so I thought I would start one.

Ok, I know its only a PHEV so its not the full monty just yet, but for my typical day it might as well be an EV - I dont do big milage most days.

I ordered it back in January for a July delivery, but with Covid and factory shutdowns I conly collected it at the beginning of September.

So I am driving it now for a month with a total of 760Km, of which I have done 600km electric.

The 160Km I did on petrol were deliberate ICE only engine break-in trips.

So I am showing 2.4l/100Km on petrol, and 31.2kWh/100km - I guess this is pretty high in terms of Kilowatt hours, but it is a 2.5 tonne SUV

Ive owned both an E70 and F15 X5 before and I can say that the new G05 variant is a definate step up in terms of quality/luxury as well as on the tech front.

BMW as well as Ford and Hyundai are in the middle of some kind of battery recall so Im not sure if I am going to get caught up in that or not, but reports of potential fire risks are worrying.

I installed a Zappi at home and that has been working fine for me, even though the 45e maxes out at 16A.

In terms of charging I am getting between 65 and 70km range on a full battery, but I have to figure out the best way to run the preconditioning.

When I run the preconditioning this seems reduce my range by 10Km even if the car is still plugged in. So now if I plan to leave at 9AM I set the car to precondition for 8AM or so to allow the battery to charge a bit more before I leave.

Anyway, if anybody has any questions fire away

digiman

I've been looking at these with some envy recently.

With the x45e maxing out at 16A, how long does it take to charge the 24kW battery with the Zappi?

Did you get much discount from BMW when buying?

KCross

Does the engine have to fire to heat the cabin or can you force the engine to stay off and still get heat?

Relative to the older x5 what’s the performance like when you floor it?

What’s the performance like if you keep it in EV mode? What kW is the motor in it?

Kramer

KCross wrote: »

Does the engine have to fire to heat the cabin or can you force the engine to stay off and still get heat?

The 530e, 545e & 745e all use electric/resistive heating so preheating & running in pure electric mode doesn't require the ICE running.
The X5 45e, one would assume is the same.

KCross wrote: »

What’s the performance like if you keep it in EV mode? What kW is the motor in it?

It's around 110hp from the battery only, approx 80kW IIRC. It wouldn't be smoking tyres at that but adequate for average city driving.

I'm eyeing up an X5 45e as my next PHEV - I've watched a few youtube videos on them . Expensive though when well specced.

Gumbo

Lovely cars. One of the lads on bmw haus bought new in 2018.
The newer one you have has a bigger battery etc, his only done 30km in EV mode.

jayo3328

Charging at 16A is the same as 3.6KW, so to charge a 24KW battery it takes between 6 and 7 hours, and this is what I am seeing over the last month.

That is fine for overnight charging at home, but not much use if you are trying to charge at a public charger during the day - without hogging the spot.

That works for me as nightly charging is more than enough for my needs, but might be a problem doing more than 60 or 70km a day

As for discount, there isnt much to be had - high demand for these at the minute, and more so now as they have been launched on the US market. I got some because I have been buying BMW's off the same guy for almost 20 years now.

digiman wrote: »

I've been looking at these with some envy recently.

With the x45e maxing out at 16A, how long does it take to charge the 24kW battery with the Zappi?

Did you get much discount from BMW when buying?

Gumbo

jayo3328 wrote: »

Charging at 16A is the same as 3.6KW, so to charge a 24KW battery it takes between 6 and 7 hours, and this is what I am seeing over the last month.

That is fine for overnight charging at home, but not much use if you are trying to charge at a public charger during the day - without hogging the spot.

That works for me as nightly charging is more than enough for my needs, but might be a problem doing more than 60 or 70km a day

As for discount, there isnt much to be had - high demand for these at the minute, and more so now as they have been launched on the US market. I got some because I have been buying BMW's off the same guy for almost 20 years now.

You would be mad to charge this at a public charge point.
The parking fee plus the charging fee is simply not worth it. You’d be better off putting the €1 petrol in and driving home on that.

You seem to have it sorted though with the over night charging routine.

Best of luck with it.

Any pics?

jayo3328

As somebody else mentioned, the heating is electric and does not require the engine to fire up.

Im pretty sure the A/C is the same, its all tied to the High Voltage battery system.

You can force EV driving (battery permitting) by selecting "Electric Individual" mode, and this can be set as the default startup mode in iDrive. Thats what I am driving around in most of the time at the minute.

But remember, the electric motor is only 112hp, so dont expect super performance with that alone. But for daily city/town driving this is bang on.

If you are in EV mode, you can force the Engine on by doing a "Kick Down" on the accelerator.

If you want performance, put it in Sport Mode, and that forces Engine + EV - a whole other different story.

The 45e has the 3 litre petol 40i engine, so its not the top of the range.

But the EV more than makes up for any turbo lag, and driving in sport is fantastic performance.

But Im sure that a Tesla Model S will still leave you behind - but thats a whole lot lighter, and this X5 wont be too far behind, and its hard to beat the BMWs handling.

My previous X5's were both twin turbo diesels (E70 3.0sd and F15 40D) and they were great, but the 45e beats them both in my opinion.

There is a very good technical document on another forum explaining how the EV side of things work in the 45e

g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2396768&d=1598291140

KCross wrote: »

Does the engine have to fire to heat the cabin or can you force the engine to stay off and still get heat?

Relative to the older x5 what’s the performance like when you floor it?

What’s the performance like if you keep it in EV mode? What kW is the motor in it?

jayo3328

I cant post pics right now because I am a new user on this forum so I have to get a few posts under my belt before the Gods allow me!!!

But I will when I can

Gumbo wrote: »

You would be mad to charge this at a public charge point.
The parking fee plus the charging fee is simply not worth it. You’d be better off putting the €1 petrol in and driving home on that.

You seem to have it sorted though with the over night charging routine.

Best of luck with it.

Any pics?

jayo3328

As a complete side issue - I jinxed myself with this thread.

When I got into the car this evening to go home there was a message waiting for me from BMW.

Basically they have told me to stop charging it because of a possible safety issue.

There was some battery manufacturing fault where welding snots were not removed during manufacture that can lead to a short circuit and a fire - check Google for BMW PHEV recall around the end of August.

So, not sure what happens next, but I think BMW are going to want to take the X5 off me, send it either to the UK or mainland Europe to run tests.

Absolute pisser!

n97 mini

jayo3328 wrote: »

and 31.2kWh/100km - I guess this is pretty high in terms of Kilowatt hours, but it is a 2.5 tonne SUV

I think you'll get that well down with a bit of practice. Our Leaf was showing 13.8kwh/100km, so no reason you shouldn't get closer to 20-ish by laying off the gas and off the brakes a bit.

KCross

jayo3328 wrote: »

Basically they have told me to stop charging it because of a possible safety issue.

There was some battery manufacturing fault where welding snots were not removed during manufacture....

Bad case of Covid?!

collsoft

I didn't think welding robots could get Covid - but the way thinsg have gone this year I wouldn't be surprised!!!!

KCross wrote: »

Bad case of Covid?!

kanuseeme

Gumbo wrote: »

You would be mad to charge this at a public charge point.
The parking fee plus the charging fee is simply not worth it. You’d be better off putting the €1 petrol in and driving home on that.

You seem to have it sorted though with the over night charging routine.

Best of luck with it.

Any pics?

:D:D €1 petrol lol its 2500 kg and a 3 litre engine, lucky to get 30mpg from it in petrol only mode. €1 might get him out of a large car park, "get home" lol

I would not worry about paying for parking and charging,

1, there mostly empty since pay for charging came in

2, a lot of councils offer free parking while charging

3, for every 100km you do by charging at ecars saves you about €4 over petrol

4, you are saving countless penguins and polar bears.

5, not much point buying a phev if you don't charge it, when you get the chance.

best of luck with it:D:D:D

Gumbo

kanuseeme wrote: »

:D:D €1 petrol lol its 2500 kg and a 3 litre engine, lucky to get 30mpg from it in petrol only mode. €1 might get him out of a large car park, "get home" lol

I would not worry about paying for parking and charging,

1, there mostly empty since pay for charging came in

2, a lot of councils offer free parking while charging

3, for every 100km you do by charging at ecars saves you about €4 over petrol

4, you are saving countless penguins and polar bears.

5, not much point buying a phev if you don't charge it, when you get the chance.

best of luck with it:D:D:D

I’ve had similar engines as the OP in my previous X5’s.
I’ve also had the bigger 4.6 V8 version in the X5, the bigger 4.4 V8 and also the 3.0d but not the twin turbo version the OP had in the SD (535d variant) so I’m not talking BS.

1. That’s true because it’s not worth it. Better to charge fully at home.
2. None free in Dublin City.
3. 100km in EV mode is about 48 kWh. 48 kWh on eCars is €14.40 and take 13 hours to charge. I can guarantee you that €15 petrol will get him 100km cruising while out on a trip. No way I’d be hanging around waiting to charge.
4. That’s true.
5. There is when the OP has already stated that the overnight charge covers his daily use.

*all my opinion.

bambam

Harry Metcalfe has a good review of it

jayo3328

He also has a follow up video where is bascially saying that the X5 45e PHEV suits him better than the iPace he already has.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k15n6QAe8cE

bambam wrote: »

Harry Metcalfe has a good review of it

kanuseeme

Gumbo wrote: »

I’ve had similar engines as the OP in my previous X5’s.
I’ve also had the bigger 4.6 V8 version in the X5, the bigger 4.4 V8 and also the 3.0d but not the twin turbo version the OP had in the SD (535d variant) so I’m not talking BS.

1. That’s true because it’s not worth it. Better to charge fully at home.
2. None free in Dublin City.
3. 100km in EV mode is about 48 kWh. 48 kWh on eCars is €14.40 and take 13 hours to charge. I can guarantee you that €15 petrol will get him 100km cruising while out on a trip. No way I’d be hanging around waiting to charge.
4. That’s true.
5. There is when the OP has already stated that the overnight charge covers his daily use.

*all my opinion.

How far did you get in them with 1 euro?

1. Its only better in that its cheaper to charge at home at night rate or day rate. What? 10 cent in the difference between Ecars and house?

2. I said lots are free,

You have 2 empty parking spaces in Dublin, 1 has a charger, other is a normal parking space, your recommending to park in the normal parking space because he has to pay for electricity in the other, the days of free electricity are over.
If he can use that electricity to do his journey he should pay for both.

3. No its 31.2kWh/100km, I don't know where you got 48 kWh from same place as the 1 euro?

The OP said 60 to 70 km from electricity, so every 100km done by charging at Ecars AC PAYG rate costs him 31.2 multiplying by .26 = 8.40 euro

The petrol engine only mode, I looked up 3 l engines on autotrader and the newish one I picked showed 30 mpg. I put it as 10 L x 1.25 = 12.50 euro
or nearly 4 euro.
Being an expert on Bigger than 3 L engines, your 15 euro every 100 km makes it more a saving in my opinion.

Now Its very silly to stop and charge for 13 hours to do 100 km, even I find it more silly to stop every 400 km for 40 minutes to charge, even worse when you cannot be sure of availability or if you are in a hurry.

That's why I said every 100 km charged at Ecars, I would not worry about hogging a charging spot unless you do not need to charge.

4. Polar bears terrify me.

5. So a phev is only for charging at home and driving 20 km to 70 km and use petrol for anything beyond that.

That's very silly, while it is cheaper to charge at home, its also cheaper to charge anywhere else also, so what is your point exactly?

I think it more of the same old biased crap like you would get from the likes of Jackie Healy-Rae, except its from BEV people who do there best here to make phev's and anyone who owns them feel that they bought the wrong car or they are useless.

It can be seen in how people post here, like the OP "Ok, I know its only a PHEV" or the lady/woman/girl/other in mad_lads thread "Because the response here to anyone suggesting getting a phev has been that they are compliance cars and everyone should go for full electric"

Its reinforced by the mods and their attitudes with comments like "1 euro" "smoking on the weekends" or "petrol is cheaper"

If you all want people to go electric, you all should encourage them to use any form of battery power, be it mild hybrid, phev or full electric, each one is a stepping stone, when you know how each one works you can move on to the next, but denigrating, mocking or false information is not the way.

A lot of people read and never post and as the old saying goes " the pen is mightier than the sword"

Gumbo

kanuseeme wrote: »

How far did you get in them with 1 euro?

1. Its only better in that its cheaper to charge at home at night rate or day rate. What? 10 cent in the difference between Ecars and house?

2. I said lots are free,

You have 2 empty parking spaces in Dublin, 1 has a charger, other is a normal parking space, your recommending to park in the normal parking space because he has to pay for electricity in the other, the days of free electricity are over.
If he can use that electricity to do his journey he should pay for both.

3. No its 31.2kWh/100km, I don't know where you got 48 kWh from same place as the 1 euro?

The OP said 60 to 70 km from electricity, so every 100km done by charging at Ecars AC PAYG rate costs him 31.2 multiplying by .26 = 8.40 euro

The petrol engine only mode, I looked up 3 l engines on autotrader and the newish one I picked showed 30 mpg. I put it as 10 L x 1.25 = 12.50 euro
or nearly 4 euro.
Being an expert on Bigger than 3 L engines, your 15 euro every 100 km makes it more a saving in my opinion.

Now Its very silly to stop and charge for 13 hours to do 100 km, even I find it more silly to stop every 400 km for 40 minutes to charge, even worse when you cannot be sure of availability or if you are in a hurry.

That's why I said every 100 km charged at Ecars, I would not worry about hogging a charging spot unless you do not need to charge.

4. Polar bears terrify me.

5. So a phev is only for charging at home and driving 20 km to 70 km and use petrol for anything beyond that.

That's very silly, while it is cheaper to charge at home, its also cheaper to charge anywhere else also, so what is your point exactly?

I think it more of the same old biased crap like you would get from the likes of Jackie Healy-Rae, except its from BEV people who do there best here to make phev's and anyone who owns them feel that they bought the wrong car or they are useless.

It can be seen in how people post here, like the OP "Ok, I know its only a PHEV" or the lady/woman/girl/other in mad_lads thread "Because the response here to anyone suggesting getting a phev has been that they are compliance cars and everyone should go for full electric"

Its reinforced by the mods and their attitudes with comments like "1 euro" "smoking on the weekends" or "petrol is cheaper"

If you all want people to go electric, you all should encourage them to use any form of battery power, be it mild hybrid, phev or full electric, each one is a stepping stone, when you know how each one works you can move on to the next, but denigrating, mocking or false information is not the way.

A lot of people read and never post and as the old saying goes " the pen is mightier than the sword"

Yep. Totally agree.

Gumbo

kanuseeme wrote: »

:D:D €1 petrol lol its 2500 kg and a 3 litre engine, lucky to get 30mpg from it in petrol only mode. €1 might get him out of a large car park, "get home" lol

All the info is in the OP.
2.4L/100km.
So that’s about €1.30x2.4. €3.12 per 100km on petrol.
On a long run no way I’d be sitting there charging when it’s cheaper to do so on petrol.

I get 33 MPG in my 4.6iS V8 X5 on a motorway run to Newry and it was significantly older than the OP’s car. Real work figures are different to google.

jayo3328

Somebody asked for a picture, so let me introduce you to Beauty and the Beast.


Only one is very comfortable to drive, but both are definitely fun

jayo3328

By the way, how far I can go on electric is now a mute point because when I went to go home last night there was a message from BMW waiting for me.


Basically, dont charge it in case it bursts into flames!!!!

Gumbo

Nice!
The only off road action my X5’s got was parking on fields at football matches

collsoft

Much the same here - for both!!!!

Gumbo wrote: »

Nice!
The only off road action my X5’s got was parking on fields at football matches

adam88

n97 mini wrote: »

I think you'll get that well down with a bit of practice. Our Leaf was showing 13.8kwh/100km, so no reason you shouldn't get closer to 20-ish by laying off the gas and off the brakes a bit.

I’m new to all this phev and ev. Why lay off the brakes ??

jayo3328

I think the reason is that you dont recoup as much energy when you brake.


Its a bit like engine braking in a regular petrol/diesel car.


The electric motor also acts like a generator/dynamo, when you take your foot off the accelerator the motor actually generates electricity that can be used to charge the battery.


This generation of electricity actually acts like a brake and slows down your car, so if you use the brake you are bringing the car to a stop quicker and reducing the amount of electricity the motor can generate.


Im sure its all a bit more complicated than that, but thats the bare bones of it I think

adam88 wrote: »

I’m new to all this phev and ev. Why lay off the brakes ??

kanuseeme

Gumbo wrote: »

All the info is in the OP.
2.4L/100km.
So that’s about €1.30x2.4. €3.12 per 100km on petrol.
On a long run no way I’d be sitting there charging when it’s cheaper to do so on petrol.

I get 33 MPG in my 4.6iS V8 X5 on a motorway run to Newry and it was significantly older than the OP’s car. Real work figures are different to google.

I used a google figure of 30 mpg for a 3 L car, prehab's you could have used your real work figures instead of suggesting 1 euro,

Now the hard bit, the math seems ok at first, but its a journey of 160 km done by choice of the OP by petrol, the car is reporting 2.4 l per 100 km, I cannot be sure if that is 2,4 l / 100 km for that particular 160 km or for the 760 km.

IF it is for the 160 km trip its fantastic, I am going to buy one 2nd hand at some stage.

I doubt it, because I have real world experience of phev's, its more than likely he used 18 L of petrol to do 160 km ( maybe less because its new to him I am sure he has put the foot down a few times and the engine kicked in over his 760 km) any way that works out at 11 L per 100 km or 25 mpg.

Considering your real work figures which is more likely?

About charging and sitting and waiting, I have no experience of it maybe ask some one who drives a BEV.

I merely corrected you on 1 euro for petrol and parking, its an attempt the make PHEVers ( I like that word and EV drivers BEVers) miserly and to belittle them, its not the first and won't be the last, its a common theme to use, I have seen it said more than once its only "50 cents worth of electricity", but compared to petrol use and its cumulative effect, its well worth it for PHEVers to charge anywhere but ionity.

I will charge when ever and where ever I wish, at no stage was I just sitting and waiting only for a charge.

All my own opinion.

jayo3328

I think there is a little bit of confusion with my consumption figures.


When I said that it was 2.4l/100km that is calculated over both EV and ICE driving so it is really the Hybrid consumption.


Because I am managing a relatively high EV only driving profile that figure is artificially low.


The official BMW consumption figure for my petrol engine is 8.4l/100km so I am sure that in practice it will be at least 10


So if I was trying to work out how much cheaper Electric is over petrol I would be using the 10l/100km figure.


I currently charge at home on a 24 hour rate so I am paying about 18 cent per kW, but I am considering switching over to a day/night rate which could bring it down to 8 or 9 cent - but I would have other adjustments to make at home to make that worthwhile.


But to be honest, I think we are all wasting our time if we are simply looking at electric driving as a way to save money over petrol/diesel.


My interest in this is to see what I can do about my overall CO2 footprint, and I know I have an awful long way to go.


One good thing about getting the PHEV is the Zappi charger, because now I am getting a better sense of how I use electricity. Crikey, just making a cup of tea makes the consumption jump up!!!! I am still getting to grips with this but I plan to try and make some changes.


My next big project is to see what I can do to install solar PV + Battery - is it possible for me to do some sunshine miles?


I only recently noticed that my ESB bill has a figure for the CO2 emissions arising from my consumption - that was way bigger than I imagined.


I think the thing that we all have to face up to is that for us to reduce our overall CO2 footprint its going to cost us money one way or another.


ANyway, here is the data from the car. Now that BMW have basically told me not to charge it any more I am going to find out for real how many litre of fuel I need per 100kM

KCross

jayo3328 wrote: »

When I said that it was 2.4l/100km that is calculated over both EV and ICE driving so it is really the Hybrid consumption.


Because I am managing a relatively high EV only driving profile that figure is artificially low.

Its not artificial though. It is what you are using to achieve each 100km on average.

jayo3328 wrote: »

The official BMW consumption figure for my petrol engine is 8.4l/100km so I am sure that in practice it will be at least 10


So if I was trying to work out how much cheaper Electric is over petrol I would be using the 10l/100km figure.

I dont follow.
With PHEV's you have to take your own personal figures to see what its saving you. BMW figures or someone else's figures are meaningless as you can have a massive variation depending on the length of your journeys.

The real comparison you need to do is to compare your average l/100km figure (when the EV bit was working) against what an equivalent diesel version of the car would do. That's what your saving is.

jayo3328 wrote: »

I currently charge at home on a 24 hour rate so I am paying about 18 cent per kW, but I am considering switching over to a day/night rate which could bring it down to 8 or 9 cent - but I would have other adjustments to make at home to make that worthwhile.

You dont need to change anything else at home to make that worthwhile.

The battery in your car is 24kWh. If I remember, you are driving the battery low everyday with your normal commute so you are pushing probably 25kWh+ into that car everyday. You only need to use 3kWh (roughly) to break even on switching to night rate so you have a big saving to make by switching just on the car alone not to mind adding in any changes. In fact any changes you make, like shifting dishwasher to nightrate, would pale into insignificance relative to a 24kWh EV!

To put it into perspective.... the battery in your car is the same capacity as the battery in the 2011-2017 Nissan Leaf!! Most of those owners would be on night rate.

You need to switch to day/night rate immediately. Its free to do so. I'm amazed you arent already on it!

jayo3328 wrote: »

One good thing about getting the PHEV is the Zappi charger, because now I am getting a better sense of how I use electricity.

My next big project is to see what I can do to install solar PV + Battery - is it possible for me to do some sunshine miles?

Only if the car is at home at the same time as the sun is shining and even then it will only be between ~Feb-Sep where you will generate decent excess on a regular basis.

Any battery you are likely to put in would be a small battery (2-5kWh) that would be used for your house after the sun goes down. It wouldnt charge your car to any great degree and would be a bad use of it anyway... excess solar power to your car is a better option but, as I said, it requires the car to be plugged in at home while the sun is shining (11am-18:00).

jayo3328

Fair points.

When I said I was going to look at PV + Battery I was talking about something more substantial.

Something more like 1 or 2 Powerwalls (or some other equivalent brand/system) so talking more like something between 10 and 25 kWh

Of course need to look at what size array is viable in terms of being able to charge that type of system.

Plus I would be looking at prioritising the EV over the house

KCross wrote: »

Its not artificial though. It is what you are using to achieve each 100km on average.



I dont follow.
With PHEV's you have to take your own personal figures to see what its saving you. BMW figures or someone else's figures are meaningless as you can have a massive variation depending on the length of your journeys.

The real comparison you need to do is to compare your average l/100km figure (when the EV bit was working) against what an equivalent diesel version of the car would do. That's what your saving is.



You dont need to change anything else at home to make that worthwhile.

The battery in your car is 24kWh. If I remember, you are driving the battery low everyday with your normal commute so you are pushing probably 25kWh+ into that car everyday. You only need to use 3kWh (roughly) to break even on switching to night rate so you have a big saving to make by switching just on the car alone not to mind adding in any changes. In fact any changes you make, like shifting dishwasher to nightrate, would pale into insignificance relative to a 24kWh EV!

To put it into perspective.... the battery in your car is the same capacity as the battery in the 2011-2017 Nissan Leaf!! Most of those owners would be on night rate.

You need to switch to day/night rate immediately. Its free to do so. I'm amazed you arent already on it!





Only if the car is at home at the same time as the sun is shining and even then it will only be between ~Feb-Sep where you will generate decent excess on a regular basis.

Any battery you are likely to put in would be a small battery (2-5kWh) that would be used for your house after the sun goes down. It wouldnt charge your car to any great degree and would be a bad use of it anyway... excess solar power to your car is a better option but, as I said, it requires the car to be plugged in at home while the sun is shining (11am-18:00).

3d4life

jayo3328 wrote: »

....

I only recently noticed that my ESB bill has a figure for the CO2 emissions arising from my consumption - that was way bigger than I imagined.


I think the thing that we all have to face up to is that for us to reduce our overall CO2 footprint its going to cost us money one way or another.....

Have you been missing out on all the fun of changing electricity suppliers every year ?


If so peruse Bonkers.ie to see what works best for you. There are tariffs for 24 hour or day/night there are also tariffs for 100% renewable power - goodbye CO2 footprint - and there may still be some suppliers who will offer prices fixed for one or more years.