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Dublin restrictions Megathread

  • 19-09-2020 8:09am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭ Pkiernan


    Im struggling to find what powers the Gardai have to prevent people in Dublin crossing the countys border.

    What punishments are applicable in the case that a Dublin resident drives across into Meath for example?


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭ Plumbthedepths


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Im struggling to find what powers the Gardai have to prevent people in Dublin crossing the countys border.

    What punishments are applicable in the case that a Dublin resident drives across into Meath for example?

    Simple answer, none.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭ TheBlackPill


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Im struggling to find what powers the Gardai have to prevent people in Dublin crossing the countys border.

    What punishments are applicable in the case that a Dublin resident drives across into Meath for example?
    It will be gangs of farmers, blocking roads with their machinery and hosing the pestilent dubs with slurry, that will enforce this blockade.
    Dubliners holidaying in Wexford = no supplies getting through to dublin from Rosslare port :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    Simple answer, none.

    Why is the Indo implying there is, says a file will be sent to the dpp.
    I'm not getting this policing by consent when it's actually by threat of prosection.
    It's like a rapist saying if you don't let me have sex with you I'll beat you with a hammer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭ Pkiernan


    Why is the Indo implying there is, says a file will be sent to the dpp.
    I'm not getting this policing by consent when it's actually by threat of prosection.
    It's like a rapist saying if you don't let me have sex with you I'll beat you with a hammer.

    Not sure how you managed to bring up rape? Ffs

    Its strange how none of the news outlets are detailing the enforcement/ punishment aspect.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭ cython


    Why is the Indo implying there is, says a file will be sent to the dpp.
    I'm not getting this policing by consent when it's actually by threat of prosection.
    It's like a rapist saying if you don't let me have sex with you I'll beat you with a hammer.

    Assuming you mean this article I think the DPP comment is in reference to pubs and restaurants ahead of the wet pub relaxation outside Dublin on Monday. The same article also clearly states the Gardai have no enforcement powers for the travel component.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-gardai-to-target-popular-getaway-spots-to-discourage-mass-exodus-from-dublin-39543937.html


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,594 ✭✭✭ dan1895


    Why is the Indo implying there is, says a file will be sent to the dpp.
    I'm not getting this policing by consent when it's actually by threat of prosection.
    It's like a rapist saying if you don't let me have sex with you I'll beat you with a hammer.

    Have you got a link to the info where it says that? Would be interested in reading over it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 810 ✭✭✭ EB_2013


    Meanwhile the Gardai setting up pointless roadblocks while they could be sorting other more important issues out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Not sure how you managed to bring up rape? Ffs

    You'll be pinned to the ground against your will for not complying with some implied law that doesn't seem to exist.
    The Government were pulled up on this two week ago and have went against all legal experts in how there communicating what is and isn't lawful for people to do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    dan1895 wrote: »
    Have you got a link to the info where it says that? Would be interested in reading over it.

    It's the way the Independent is framing it..

    Revealed: Gardaí to target popular getaway spots to discourage mass exodus from Dublin

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-gardai-to-target-popular-getaway-spots-to-discourage-mass-exodus-from-dublin-39543937.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 752 ✭✭✭ Notmything


    From reading the article it appears the reference to files being sent to the dpp is in relation to pubs, but I can see how it might be taken to also refer to those leaving Dublin.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭ Pkiernan


    It's the way the Independent is framing it..

    Revealed: Gardaí to target popular getaway spots to discourage mass exodus from Dublin

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-gardai-to-target-popular-getaway-spots-to-discourage-mass-exodus-from-dublin-39543937.html

    That article, if accurate, implies that there are no enforcement powers for travel restrictions, stating that they are not Penal Regulations.

    Thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭ maestroamado


    I was old N4 yesterday and there a huge checkpoint between Kinnegad and Enfield.
    There were several Garda cars and it was just being set-up.
    The focus seemed to be on vehicles travelling towards Dublin.
    Going this direction the road was coned to 3 separate lanes for obvious separate areas.
    There seemed to be just one lane going west.
    I wonder are there similal on the M4 as i expect more traffic here..


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭ senordingdong


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Im struggling to find what powers the Gardai have to prevent people in Dublin crossing the countys border.

    What punishments are applicable in the case that a Dublin resident drives across into Meath for example?

    It's complicated.
    If you're stopped by them, gardaí may instruct/order you to turn back. Refusing to comply with an instruction/order of AGS is an entry separate offence and it's not likely every garda you meet will be fully savvy of the jurisprudence surrounding the matter and will likely adhere to simplified version in the orders he was given.

    If it went to court you'd 'win' but it's a tremendous amount of hassle in between.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭ maestroamado


    It's complicated.
    If you're stopped by them, gardaí may instruct/order you to turn back. Refusing to comply with an instruction/order of AGS is an entry separate offence and it's not likely every garda you meet will be fully savvy of the jurisprudence surrounding the matter and will likely adhere to simplified version in the orders he was given.

    If it went to court you'd 'win' but it's a tremendous amount of hassle in between.


    Why waste court time with this.
    On the spot fine is the only way
    This for me a waste of time.
    The Gardai have the technology on where the car lives.
    If it outside a given area pull it over and ask why its there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭ Blingy


    EB_2013 wrote: »
    Meanwhile the Gardai setting up pointless roadblocks while they could be sorting other more important issues out.

    Is this actually likely? That there will be road blocks from today?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭ Pkiernan


    Why waste court time with this.
    On the spot fine is the only way
    This for me a waste of time.
    The Gardai have the technology on where the car lives.
    If it outside a given area pull it over and ask why its there.

    Are all train, bus and coach journeys prohibited?

    If not, then how would fining drivers work?


  • Registered Users Posts: 810 ✭✭✭ EB_2013




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭ maestroamado


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Are all train, bus and coach journeys prohibited?

    If not, then how would fining drivers work?


    I do not understand what you mean in second line..


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭ senordingdong


    Why waste court time with this.
    On the spot fine is the only way
    This for me a waste of time.
    The Gardai have the technology on where the car lives.
    If it outside a given area pull it over and ask why its there.

    Court time gets wasted all the time
    How can they fine you on the spot if you're not in breach of anything?
    All Gardai don't have the technology only a select number of garda vehicles have anpr tech. Cars are mobile, don't really live anywhere. Plenty of legitimate reasons to cross borders still and if the Gardai do pull you over to ask you why you are where you are, we are all back to the question in the first post.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭ Pkiernan


    I do not understand what you mean in second line..

    Whats the point in fining a guy driving a car across a county border if 300 people can get on a train from Heuston to Cork?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Whats the point in fining a guy driving a car across a county border if 300 people can get on a train from Heuston to Cork?

    It's about sending a message.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭ maestroamado


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Whats the point in fining a guy driving a car across a county border if 300 people can get on a train from Heuston to Cork?


    For me it's about making rules and enforcing same.

    Not much point in saying the nice Garda let me go.

    Your right about trains etc if there be lockdown
    Someone needs take charge of this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭✭ seansouth36


    The point is even if some who would have driven to Cork get the train instead, the vast majority won't bother. None of these regulations are aimed at 100% enforcement (which, outside of a proper police state, would be impossible), they are about ensuring the majority follow the rules of their own accord. Of course, some people could get the train, but most won't, so in the governments' eyes, the roadblock(s) will have been a success.


  • Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭ ciarang85


    no supplies getting through to dublin from Rosslare port :)
    You do realise half of imports come through Dublin port?
    Hardly anything comes through rosslare :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭ maestroamado


    The point is even if some who would have driven to Cork get the train instead, the vast majority won't bother. None of these regulations are aimed at 100% enforcement (which, outside of a proper police state, would be impossible), they are about ensuring the majority follow the rules of their own accord. Of course, some people could get the train, but most won't, so in the governments' eyes, the roadblock(s) will have been a success.




    If the numbers go down it be a success, we have proven by our actions that we need enforcement.
    I would not have thought that making and enforcing laws for the well-being of the people the purpose of Government and police.
    I would not consider thi as being in a police state...


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,183 ✭✭✭✭ road_high


    It's about sending a message.

    The only message I get is how ridiculous and utterly pointless these restrictions are


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,183 ✭✭✭✭ road_high


    If the numbers go down it be a success, we have proven by our actions that we need enforcement.
    I would not have thought that making and enforcing laws for the well-being of the people the purpose of Government and police.
    I would not consider thi as being in a police state...

    A succes of what? We have been here before...we’ve done this all before a few months ago...if it was an actual success then the exercise would not need repeating so soon again.
    To be blunt people like you are in la la land


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭ Happydays2020


    Maybe there should be big fines for non-Dublin hotels who accept guests from Dublin?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,387 ✭✭✭✭ iamwhoiam


    I have another question .People seem to have a different view on the meaning

    So you can have 6 people from 1 household visit you at any given time
    So does this mean you can ONLY have 1 household visit you over the three weeks or does it mean you can have visitors of six people at different times ?
    No one seems to know the answer


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,372 ✭✭✭ McGinniesta


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Im struggling to find what powers the Gardai have to prevent people in Dublin crossing the countys border.

    What punishments are applicable in the case that a Dublin resident drives across into Meath for example?

    Short of having gardai on every road leaving and entering Dublin 24 hours a day then there is very little that can be done.

    I have a further question. If these restrictions do not work as intended then what will the next steps be.

    It's fair to say that there wasn't a lot of information surrounding covid the first time we went into lockdown. However, if restrictions fail for a second time with more information would it be reasonable to question the effectiveness of the restrictions in question.


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