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Lockdown and restrictions all for nothing?

  • 11-09-2020 11:18am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭ Chivito550




    This video is really worth watching. Eye opening stuff.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,741 ✭✭✭✭ B.A._Baracus


    I tried to watch the video to have an open mind however 37 minutes is a long one. But I tried... early on he says (in regards to a countries population) "... around 80%... its becoming clear are already defacto immune through cross immunity ..."

    Sorry, who is this Ivor Cummins guy again? Why should I take what he says over someone else? His channel says:
    My Channel is devoted to bringing engineering problem solving rigor and the scientific method to some of the more interesting issues in the world today

    So he's not some scientist or working in a lab or there other? He's just some bloke. So how can he know 80% of a countries population have some immunity?

    Could it be, perhaps, that he is talking through his arse? :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,608 ✭✭✭✭ MadYaker


    Actually no, it's nonsense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,409 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    buzzzzzzz

    Sorry thats my BS detector going mad.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭ Chivito550


    So are we saying these statistics are all lies?

    Looks well researched to me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,507 ✭✭✭ Doctor Jimbob


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    So are we saying these statistics are all lies?

    Looks well researched to me.

    That's the thing about these spoofers, they're great at giving the impression of having done their research.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭ Chivito550


    That's the thing about these spoofers, they're great at giving the impression of having done their research.

    Would be good to see people challenge this in a civil manner, with facts to back up their points. Just calling him a spoofer is easy. Why don't you tell us WHY it's rubbish.

    And it would be good for people to watch it all first before writing it off.

    He makes an interesting point about lower than normal excess deaths in 2019.

    I'm on the fence. Go ahead, win me over.


  • Registered Users Posts: 577 ✭✭✭ Pitch n Putt


    We tried to explain this to be pro lockdown crew all along.
    They wouldn’t listen.

    We have a similar debate ongoing with the pro maskers.

    Will they listen?

    No ....

    Will we see in time masks were inconsequential in their effectiveness

    Probably...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭ LessOutragePlz


    It doesn't suit the narrative so it will be dismissed as some crackpot YouTube guy despite him using lots of real data and statistics in relation to the pandemic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,412 ✭✭✭ bb1234567


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    So are we saying these statistics are all lies?

    Looks well researched to me.

    If 80% of people were immune we would not have had a large wave and then a few months later cases growing exponentially across Europe , use your head ffs and observe reality instead of being led on by whoever this YouTube imbecile is

    Lockdown was a waste of time for other reasons however , such as how unsustainable its usage was


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭ weldoninhio


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    If 80% of people were immune we would not have had a large wave and then a few months later cases growing exponentially across Europe , use your head ffs and observe reality instead of being led on by whoever this YouTube imbecile is

    Where in Europe is it currently growing exponentially?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭ soupandpoitin


    Where in Europe is it currently growing exponentially?

    Spain for a start


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,412 ✭✭✭ bb1234567


    Where in Europe is it currently growing exponentially?

    Spain and France, parts of Eastern Europe


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭ TonyMaloney


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Would be good to see people challenge this in a civil manner, with facts to back up their points. Just calling him a spoofer is easy. Why don't you tell us WHY it's rubbish.

    I'm on the fence. Go ahead, win me over.

    I skipped through it about half an hour ago so please forgive me for not remembering the terms, but he was talking about two different kinds of infection curves - one European style sharp curve and another smoother Equatorial style.

    Now there might well be good science behind that, and it might well be true of the US. I don't know.

    I do know however that because of strict national lockdowns you can't say that all countries in the EU have gone through that Euro-style curve.
    Certain regions may have, but not entire countries. Italy has had it worse than most, but Rome and the rest of Southern Italy have not yet been through the ringer.

    And frankly even regions that have had huge outbreaks - Madrid for instance - are experiencing very worrying trends in hospitalisation and ICU numbers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭ TonyMaloney


    Where in Europe is it currently growing exponentially?

    Ireland

    If the R rate is over 1 you're in exponential growth territory.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭ soupandpoitin


    I skipped through it about half an hour ago so please forgive me for not remembering the terms, but he was talking about two different kinds of infection curves - one European style sharp curve and another smoother Equatorial style.

    Yeah. They have rubbish testing in most Equatorial countries, and people on average are far younger, so they don't get sick, therefore don't go to the doctor. Also they aren't snowflakes like Westerners.

    It's like rural Ireland when I was a kid - you didn't go to the doctor unless you had a limb hanging off or were on death's door. I had pneumonia for nearly a week before my mum called the doctor.

    COVID is largely a rich country disease. Poorer countries have more pressing concerns to worry about.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators Posts: 81,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭ biko




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭ Chivito550


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    Spain and France, parts of Eastern Europe

    Cases or deaths? If the testing methods are picking up dead virus as cases then that's hardly a resurgence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭ weldoninhio


    Exponential growth. Thrown around a lot. No one seems to actually know what it means. Fair play lads.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭ soupandpoitin


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Cases or deaths? If the testing methods are picking up dead virus as cases then that's hardly a resurgence.

    Hardly picking up dead virus months later.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭ TonyMaloney


    biko wrote: »

    Great watch.

    Prof. Astley is really amazing at conveying complex ideas in a simple way.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,412 ✭✭✭ bb1234567


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Cases or deaths? If the testing methods are picking up dead virus as cases then that's hardly a resurgence.

    Hospitalisatuons and ICU admissions growing rapidly across Spain and France. Nowv1150 in ICU in Spain, up from about 850 about 5 days ago.


  • Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭ AUDI20


    Yeah. They have rubbish testing in most Equatorial countries, and people on average are far younger, so they don't get sick, therefore don't go to the doctor. Also they aren't snowflakes like Westerners.

    It's like rural Ireland when I was a kid - you didn't go to the doctor unless you had a limb hanging off or were on death's door. I had pneumonia for nearly a week before my mum called the doctor.

    COVID is largely a rich country disease. Poorer countries have more pressing concerns to worry about.

    What cave did you live in when you were a kid, I am from rural Ireland and and this certainly wasn't the case in my area.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    That's the thing about these spoofers, they're great at giving the impression of having done their research.

    Well here's the chaps who have done their research, what say you now?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,412 ✭✭✭ bb1234567


    Yeah. They have rubbish testing in most Equatorial countries, and people on average are far younger, so they don't get sick, therefore don't go to the doctor. Also they aren't snowflakes like Westerners.

    It's like rural Ireland when I was a kid - you didn't go to the doctor unless you had a limb hanging off or were on death's door. I had pneumonia for nearly a week before my mum called the doctor.

    COVID is largely a rich country disease. Poorer countries have more pressing concerns to worry about.

    Not true in many cases. Peru Ecuador Mexico Colombia Bolivia have by far the highest level of excess deaths in the world , Latin America is by far the most affected region on earth by covid. An astounding number of people have died in major Latin American cities , far more than would die from any other disease or ailment


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭ El Tarangu


    Well here's the chaps who have done their research, what say you now?

    I wonder why one side in the debate links to studies and articles in medical journals, and the other side of the debate posts links to lengthy Youtube videos.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭ LessOutragePlz


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    I wonder why one side in the debate links to studies and articles in medical journals, and the other side of the debate posts links to lengthy Youtube videos.

    This is just another tactic used to discredit the other side of the debate if you had even bothered to open the YouTube video you would see that it includes Professor Carl Heneghan who is a British general practitioner physician, director of the University of Oxford's Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine, and a Fellow of Kellogg College.

    Just because their expertise isn't presented in a study or article doesn't make their input any less valid. They are just delivering their expertise through a different medium and in a more understandable way for the general public.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    I wonder why one side in the debate links to studies and articles in medical journals, and the other side of the debate posts links to lengthy Youtube videos.

    Spoken like a true blinkered horse, would you like to read the studies some were posted yesterday, the professor deals in fact based medicine, that means it's supported with evidence and studies.
    Unless you think he's a crank, you know where the conspiracy thread is if that's you opinion...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭ Nermal


    El Tarangu wrote: »
    I wonder why one side in the debate links to studies and articles in medical journals, and the other side of the debate posts links to lengthy Youtube videos.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/the-londoner-let-children-be-exposed-to-viruses-says-professor-gupta-a4538386.html

    "Gupta, who is a professor of theoretical epidemiology at Oxford... revealed the toll of her different approach. “We’ve found it difficult to publish our work in mainstream journals,” she said, adding “sadly anything that deviates from the consensus has been met with criticism – not simply of the science, but we’ve been labelled as saying things that are dangerous.”


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭ Chivito550


    I don't know enough to say whether one side is right over the other, or whether both sides have elements of truth. What I do know is that our government funded national broadcaster doesn't allow such debates to take place. Anybody who challenges the consensus will not be given a platform. We are all completely brainwashed at this stage, mindlessly sitting by our TV screens waiting eagerly for the latest case numbers, to get our daily hit of misery which we have become heavily addicted to.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ ShineOn7


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    https://youtu.be/8UvFhIFzaac

    This video is really worth watching. Eye opening stuff.


    This is the main leader of the "Casedemics" right?

    I've heard and read mixed things about Cummins tbh and nobody has time for a 37 min video these days, unless it's something they love


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