Lockdown and restrictions all for nothing?

Chivito550

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UvFhIFzaac

This video is really worth watching. Eye opening stuff.

B.A._Baracus

I tried to watch the video to have an open mind however 37 minutes is a long one. But I tried... early on he says (in regards to a countries population) "... around 80%... its becoming clear are already defacto immune through cross immunity ..."

Sorry, who is this Ivor Cummins guy again? Why should I take what he says over someone else? His channel says:

My Channel is devoted to bringing engineering problem solving rigor and the scientific method to some of the more interesting issues in the world today

So he's not some scientist or working in a lab or there other? He's just some bloke. So how can he know 80% of a countries population have some immunity?

Could it be, perhaps, that he is talking through his arse? :pac:

MadYaker

Actually no, it's nonsense.

ELM327

buzzzzzzz

Sorry thats my BS detector going mad.

Chivito550

So are we saying these statistics are all lies?

Looks well researched to me.

Chivito550

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

That's the thing about these spoofers, they're great at giving the impression of having done their research.

Would be good to see people challenge this in a civil manner, with facts to back up their points. Just calling him a spoofer is easy. Why don't you tell us WHY it's rubbish.

And it would be good for people to watch it all first before writing it off.

He makes an interesting point about lower than normal excess deaths in 2019.

I'm on the fence. Go ahead, win me over.

Pitch n Putt

We tried to explain this to be pro lockdown crew all along.
They wouldn’t listen.

We have a similar debate ongoing with the pro maskers.

Will they listen?

No ....

Will we see in time masks were inconsequential in their effectiveness

Probably...

LessOutragePlz

It doesn't suit the narrative so it will be dismissed as some crackpot YouTube guy despite him using lots of real data and statistics in relation to the pandemic.

bb1234567

Chivito550 wrote: »

So are we saying these statistics are all lies?

Looks well researched to me.

If 80% of people were immune we would not have had a large wave and then a few months later cases growing exponentially across Europe , use your head ffs and observe reality instead of being led on by whoever this YouTube imbecile is

Lockdown was a waste of time for other reasons however , such as how unsustainable its usage was

weldoninhio

bb1234567 wrote: »

If 80% of people were immune we would not have had a large wave and then a few months later cases growing exponentially across Europe , use your head ffs and observe reality instead of being led on by whoever this YouTube imbecile is

Where in Europe is it currently growing exponentially?

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Where in Europe is it currently growing exponentially?

Spain for a start

bb1234567

weldoninhio wrote: »

Where in Europe is it currently growing exponentially?

Spain and France, parts of Eastern Europe

TonyMaloney

Chivito550 wrote: »

Would be good to see people challenge this in a civil manner, with facts to back up their points. Just calling him a spoofer is easy. Why don't you tell us WHY it's rubbish.

I'm on the fence. Go ahead, win me over.

I skipped through it about half an hour ago so please forgive me for not remembering the terms, but he was talking about two different kinds of infection curves - one European style sharp curve and another smoother Equatorial style.

Now there might well be good science behind that, and it might well be true of the US. I don't know.

I do know however that because of strict national lockdowns you can't say that all countries in the EU have gone through that Euro-style curve.
Certain regions may have, but not entire countries. Italy has had it worse than most, but Rome and the rest of Southern Italy have not yet been through the ringer.

And frankly even regions that have had huge outbreaks - Madrid for instance - are experiencing very worrying trends in hospitalisation and ICU numbers.

TonyMaloney

weldoninhio wrote: »

Where in Europe is it currently growing exponentially?

Ireland

If the R rate is over 1 you're in exponential growth territory.

TonyMaloney

TonyMaloney wrote: »

I skipped through it about half an hour ago so please forgive me for not remembering the terms, but he was talking about two different kinds of infection curves - one European style sharp curve and another smoother Equatorial style.

Yeah. They have rubbish testing in most Equatorial countries, and people on average are far younger, so they don't get sick, therefore don't go to the doctor. Also they aren't snowflakes like Westerners.

It's like rural Ireland when I was a kid - you didn't go to the doctor unless you had a limb hanging off or were on death's door. I had pneumonia for nearly a week before my mum called the doctor.

COVID is largely a rich country disease. Poorer countries have more pressing concerns to worry about.

biko

Here's another good one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Chivito550

bb1234567 wrote: »

Spain and France, parts of Eastern Europe

Cases or deaths? If the testing methods are picking up dead virus as cases then that's hardly a resurgence.

weldoninhio

Exponential growth. Thrown around a lot. No one seems to actually know what it means. Fair play lads.

Chivito550

Chivito550 wrote: »

Cases or deaths? If the testing methods are picking up dead virus as cases then that's hardly a resurgence.

Hardly picking up dead virus months later.

TonyMaloney

biko wrote: »

Here's another good one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Great watch.

Prof. Astley is really amazing at conveying complex ideas in a simple way.

bb1234567

Chivito550 wrote: »

Cases or deaths? If the testing methods are picking up dead virus as cases then that's hardly a resurgence.

Hospitalisatuons and ICU admissions growing rapidly across Spain and France. Nowv1150 in ICU in Spain, up from about 850 about 5 days ago.

AUDI20

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah. They have rubbish testing in most Equatorial countries, and people on average are far younger, so they don't get sick, therefore don't go to the doctor. Also they aren't snowflakes like Westerners.

It's like rural Ireland when I was a kid - you didn't go to the doctor unless you had a limb hanging off or were on death's door. I had pneumonia for nearly a week before my mum called the doctor.

COVID is largely a rich country disease. Poorer countries have more pressing concerns to worry about.

What cave did you live in when you were a kid, I am from rural Ireland and and this certainly wasn't the case in my area.

drunkmonkey

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

That's the thing about these spoofers, they're great at giving the impression of having done their research.

Well here's the chaps who have done their research, what say you now?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WdzMVekUBU

bb1234567

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah. They have rubbish testing in most Equatorial countries, and people on average are far younger, so they don't get sick, therefore don't go to the doctor. Also they aren't snowflakes like Westerners.

It's like rural Ireland when I was a kid - you didn't go to the doctor unless you had a limb hanging off or were on death's door. I had pneumonia for nearly a week before my mum called the doctor.

COVID is largely a rich country disease. Poorer countries have more pressing concerns to worry about.

Not true in many cases. Peru Ecuador Mexico Colombia Bolivia have by far the highest level of excess deaths in the world , Latin America is by far the most affected region on earth by covid. An astounding number of people have died in major Latin American cities , far more than would die from any other disease or ailment

El Tarangu

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Well here's the chaps who have done their research, what say you now?

I wonder why one side in the debate links to studies and articles in medical journals, and the other side of the debate posts links to lengthy Youtube videos.

LessOutragePlz

El Tarangu wrote: »

I wonder why one side in the debate links to studies and articles in medical journals, and the other side of the debate posts links to lengthy Youtube videos.

This is just another tactic used to discredit the other side of the debate if you had even bothered to open the YouTube video you would see that it includes Professor Carl Heneghan who is a British general practitioner physician, director of the University of Oxford's Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine, and a Fellow of Kellogg College.

Just because their expertise isn't presented in a study or article doesn't make their input any less valid. They are just delivering their expertise through a different medium and in a more understandable way for the general public.

drunkmonkey

El Tarangu wrote: »

I wonder why one side in the debate links to studies and articles in medical journals, and the other side of the debate posts links to lengthy Youtube videos.

Spoken like a true blinkered horse, would you like to read the studies some were posted yesterday, the professor deals in fact based medicine, that means it's supported with evidence and studies.
Unless you think he's a crank, you know where the conspiracy thread is if that's you opinion...

Nermal

El Tarangu wrote: »

I wonder why one side in the debate links to studies and articles in medical journals, and the other side of the debate posts links to lengthy Youtube videos.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/the-londoner-let-children-be-exposed-to-viruses-says-professor-gupta-a4538386.html

"Gupta, who is a professor of theoretical epidemiology at Oxford... revealed the toll of her different approach. “We’ve found it difficult to publish our work in mainstream journals,” she said, adding “sadly anything that deviates from the consensus has been met with criticism – not simply of the science, but we’ve been labelled as saying things that are dangerous.”

Chivito550

I don't know enough to say whether one side is right over the other, or whether both sides have elements of truth. What I do know is that our government funded national broadcaster doesn't allow such debates to take place. Anybody who challenges the consensus will not be given a platform. We are all completely brainwashed at this stage, mindlessly sitting by our TV screens waiting eagerly for the latest case numbers, to get our daily hit of misery which we have become heavily addicted to.

ShineOn7

Chivito550 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/8UvFhIFzaac

This video is really worth watching. Eye opening stuff.

This is the main leader of the "Casedemics" right?

I've heard and read mixed things about Cummins tbh and nobody has time for a 37 min video these days, unless it's something they love

_Brian

He makes a load of rubbish claims, has no qualification to be making comment really so he’s just another internet crank.

And making a video that’s 37minutes long he just loves the sound of his own voice.

ShineOn7

_Brian wrote: »

he just loves the sound of his own voice.

It's a superb voice to be fair. I'm nearly sure I've heard him on some advertisements?

ShineOn7

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Great watch.

Prof. Astley is really amazing at conveying complex ideas in a simple way.

He knows the rules ...

plodder

He's mentioned in this article in the Irish Times.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/draconian-restrictions-around-covid-19-condemned-by-hse-doctor-1.4352701

I watched the first bit of the video and some of what he claims is unproven (eg the 80% immunity) so I can understand why some react negatively to it. But, his graphs comparing excess mortality this year with previous years are quite thought provoking and his theory why Sweden suffered more than its neighbours sounds plausible.

I don't get the anti-mask stuff though.

while the wearing of masks is an ineffective “politically driven endeavour”,

"politically driven endeavour". That is just silly.

Gael23

WHO have said lockdowns are nit the way forward so I’d agree with the video

weldoninhio

plodder wrote: »

He's mentioned in this article in the Irish Times.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/draconian-restrictions-around-covid-19-condemned-by-hse-doctor-1.4352701

I watched the first bit of the video and some of what he claims is unproven (eg the 80% immunity) so I can understand why some react negatively to it. But, his graphs comparing excess mortality this year with previous years are quite thought provoking and his theory why Sweden suffered more than its neighbours sounds plausible.

I don't get the anti-mask stuff though.

"politically driven endeavour". That is just silly.

Didn’t the WHO say that they bowed to political pressure regarding masks rather than scientific evidence.

jackal

plodder wrote: »

He's mentioned in this article in the Irish Times.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/draconian-restrictions-around-covid-19-condemned-by-hse-doctor-1.4352701

I watched the first bit of the video and some of what he claims is unproven (eg the 80% immunity) so I can understand why some react negatively to it. But, his graphs comparing excess mortality this year with previous years are quite thought provoking and his theory why Sweden suffered more than its neighbours sounds plausible.

I don't get the anti-mask stuff though.

"politically driven endeavour". That is just silly.

Have cases gone up or down since compulsory mask wearing came in? It’s theatre, and gives people a dangerous feeling of invincibility once it’s on, so other, proven methods of reducing transmission get left by the wayside.

Dionaibh

I believe that the only thing lockdown and the restrictions have achieved is the destruction of the economy, a mental health crisis, increased numbers of suicides, and a muzzled populace. And the government has destroyed humanity, small businesses and the soul of the country. I think they did it on purpose, but I'll save those thoughts for the Conspiracy forum.

KaneToad

Lockdown isn't the answer.

Strict social distancing & good hygiene is. Unfortunately there is a sizeable cohort who find this unpalatable. This is why the govt steps in and introduces restrictions/lockdowns.

Govt are very worried about the health service collapsing (too worried?). They are acutely aware of how precarious the service is at the best of times.

MadYaker

jackal wrote: »

Have cases gone up or down since compulsory mask wearing came in? It’s theatre, and gives people a dangerous feeling of invincibility once it’s on, so other, proven methods of reducing transmission get left by the wayside.

Just because cases have gone up doesn’t mean masks aren’t having an effect. Cases are going up because young people are having house parties. Thankfully most people can understand why masks help reduce transmission. If you can’t understand it that’s fine there’s enough of us wearing them for it be effective so masks aren’t really an issue of contention anymore.

KaneToad

Dionaibh wrote: »

I believe that the only thing lockdown and the restrictions have achieved is the destruction of the economy, a mental health crisis, increased numbers of suicides, and a muzzled populace. And the government has destroyed humanity, small businesses and the soul of the country. I think they did it on purpose, but I'll save those thoughts for the Conspiracy forum.

I think the idea that they did this on purpose is nonsense.

1) Which govt? Leo's or MM?
2) Which parties in the govt?
3) Why would they purposely destroy the 'soul of the country' ? Are they evil psychopaths?
4) Are you an adult?

Risteard81

weldoninhio wrote: »

Didn’t the WHO say that they bowed to political pressure regarding masks rather than scientific evidence.

Yes they have openly admitted that. Say no to these stupid gas masks.

KaneToad

Risteard81 wrote: »

Yes they have openly admitted that. Say no to these stupid gas masks.

I've not seen one person wearing a gas mask.
I have seen plenty wearing cloth face coverings.

Dionaibh

MadYaker wrote: »

Just because cases have gone up doesn’t mean masks aren’t having an effect. Cases are going up because young people are having house parties. Thankfully most people can understand why masks help reduce transmission. If you can’t understand it that’s fine there’s enough of us wearing them for it be effective so masks aren’t really an issue of contention anymore.

Cases have gone up because they're testing more and the the testing is unreliable. I read about a woman in Tennessee who died six months ago and whose son received a letter the other week saying she'd tested positive for Covid-19. It seems that even dead people can get it.

Dionaibh

KaneToad wrote: »

I think the idea that they did this on purpose is nonsense.

1) Which govt? Leo's or MM?
2) Which parties in the govt?
3) Why would they purposely destroy the 'soul of the country' ? Are they evil psychopaths?
4) Are you an adult?

Check out The Great Reset. I don't want to say too much because I'll be accused of being a conspiracy theorist and I don't want to be prevented from posting here.

nthclare

Anyone who wants a lockdown should go ahead walk away from their job and just throw away the key until the boogy man goes away.
Order your shopping online
Your call...

And leave the rest of us get on with it.

I wonder how much tax and Vat they've collected from sanatizer and masks ???

I know that Covid is out there but we're a resilient species and at this stage Covid seems to be the new religion and every fckn thing about it has some people petrified.

Cover your face and bless yourself with alcohol at every chance you have, oh and we're going to have to restrain ourselves from pronouncing the letter p and b because it's going to make us spit.

Pppppp bbbbbb pppppp pppppp

If you don't have a face covering you're not an achiever, and a potential KILLER according to SJW type's they love all this the SJWs and lefties anything to do with control and shutting people down...

Pppppp bbbbbb pppppp PPPPPP bbbbbb BBBBB

No buts about it, he/she used P or B killer you're trying to kill us alll.

Anyhow I'm off now picking wall nuts up in a hazle wood in the Burren....or Urren

jackal

MadYaker wrote: »

Just because cases have gone up doesn’t mean masks aren’t having an effect. Cases are going up because young people are having house parties. Thankfully most people can understand why masks help reduce transmission. If you can’t understand it that’s fine there’s enough of us wearing them for it be effective so masks aren’t really an issue of contention anymore.

The difference between what I said and what you said is I stated a fact - that cases have gone up since compulsory mask wearing came in. You are blaming house parties, which is a theory.

Masks I am sure are good if worn correctly etc but empirical evidence would suggest most are not because we don’t live in a controlled lab environment and real life is much more messy. Everywhere I go, disposable masks are being dragged out of the back pocket for the umpteenth time, then worn around the neck until the last second before entering the shop etc, then often covers one of the mouth/nose/chin.

hotmail.com

The only people supporting lockdowns are in secure well paid jobs as far as I can see. Handy for them.

is_that_so

MadYaker wrote: »

Just because cases have gone up doesn’t mean masks aren’t having an effect. Cases are going up because young people are having house parties. Thankfully most people can understand why masks help reduce transmission. If you can’t understand it that’s fine there’s enough of us wearing them for it be effective so masks aren’t really an issue of contention anymore.

This seems to be more of a justification for your own viewpoint than actual proof. They are used in fairly low risk locations and on their own really and would be useless in situations where cases are emerging.

Dionaibh

nthclare wrote: »

Anyone who wants a lockdown should go ahead walk away from their job and just throw away the key until the boogy man goes away.
Order your shopping online
Your call...

And leave the rest of us get on with it.

I wonder how much tax and Vat they've collected from sanatizer and masks ???

I know that Covid is out there but we're a resilient species and at this stage Covid seems to be the new religion and every fckn thing about it has some people petrified.

Cover your face and bless yourself with alcohol at every chance you have, oh and we're going to have to restrain ourselves from pronouncing the letter p and b because it's going to make us spit.

Pppppp bbbbbb pppppp pppppp

If you don't have a face covering you're not an achiever, and a potential KILLER according to SJW type's they love all this the SJWs and lefties anything to do with control and shutting people down...

Pppppp bbbbbb pppppp PPPPPP bbbbbb BBBBB

No buts about it, he/she used P or B killer you're trying to kill us alll.

Anyhow I'm off now picking wall nuts up in a hazle wood in the Burren....or Urren

You're right. Emigrating is the only option, I think.

Dionaibh

hotmail.com wrote: »

The only people supporting lockdowns are in secure well paid jobs as far as I can see. Handy for them.

Yep.