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Cheapest, smallest eV??

  • 04-09-2020 11:46am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,544 ✭✭✭ wersal gummage


    Hi folks,

    I dip in and out of here every once in a while for a read, but I have to confess I'm not up to speed with the eV situation and if I'm posting a common query then apologies and happy if someone can point me to something similar and close this off...

    I am pretty sure our next main car will be an eV, but we have a relatively new car and we intend to keep this for many years yet as out main car....

    We are based in Dublin, relatively central. Have a big diesel yoke and while we do need and use the car, most of our trips are short runs and not very efficient.

    I'm wondering, broadly speaking, what is the cheapest eV I could get into.

    Second hand and old is no problem, but I don't know which eV cars and batteries are most reliable?

    What is the smallest eV that would fit 2 isofix car seats in the back? (again going back the years for price reasons rather than anything recent and expensive)


    The reason for small car is the driveway is a bit tight and current car taking up a lot of available space.

    What would it cost to have a charge point installed? I guess this may immediately wipe out any financial sense of this plan for me,

    I've always looked after cars and never neglected them, but could I get away with minimal /close to no ongoing maintenance with an old eV, doing maybe 1500km a year I'd say max.... Obviously if something breaks that's different, and obviously I understand tyres and what not... But an annual service, is that a thing?

    Thanks very much for any general comments.

    Not looking for anyone to give a detailed reply, even just a comment or two to point me towards some research of possible cars or knock the idea on the head.


Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,998 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    If just knocking around town then a Leaf 24, you will easily get two seats in the back (it has ISOFIX but I just can't picture one or two) and the extra boot space you will appreciate (assuming buggies etc. if in child seats at present).
    You have a €600 grant for home charger install, so if clever it should cost you very little.
    For my Leaf the annual service cost is €79 at main Nissan dealer and no costs to speak of maintenance wise, at 66k kms I still have two original tyres!


  • Moderators Posts: 11,971 ✭✭✭✭ Black_Knight


    Any EV is going to be a decent expense for 1500km a year. And given the little driving, you'd likely end up with your battery sitting at a high state if charge for periods of time. Not good for the battery health.

    Old leaf is likely your best bet. 6-8k. Probably around 80km range in it. Though a cheap run around would be less expense.

    Charge point can cost from a few hundred (4-500 if you source your own charge point or a second hand one) up to over €1000.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,544 ✭✭✭ wersal gummage


    Thanks to both.

    Don't need boot space, anything smaller than a leaf? Would prefer vw up size! Although I may not fit in a car that size myself!

    Was hoping for something cheaper than 6 to 8k, at that price I'd be a lot cheaper just using existing car or even buying an ancient 1 litre polo/micra type banger as a run around.

    Thanks again and sorry for the ignorance, understand leaf one of the earlier /earliest to market and therefore now cheaper, and perhaps broader range of vehicles only becoming available in more recent years with associated higher cost now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,544 ✭✭✭ wersal gummage


    slave1 wrote: »
    (assuming buggies etc. if in child seats at present).

    Ps, and happy to be wrong here, but think they need to be in booster seats until around 12 these days? And booster seat presumably much safer as isofix?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,995 ✭✭✭ Sabre Man


    Would a Renault Zoe work for you?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭ amadangomor


    Ps, and happy to be wrong here, but think they need to be in booster seats until around 12 these days? And booster seat presumably much safer as isofix?

    Think it's down to height more than a specific age. My son is 11 and 5'10" so he wouldn't fit in the car if he was in a booster.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,352 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    1500 Kms, is that a typo ? do you need a car for such little driving ? sorry, you see I drive 50,000 + kms a year so I'm a little jealous lol.

    But the things is you can get a cheap old leaf and it might have maybe 60 Kms range in the worst of weather and take nearly 45-50 mins to get a charge at a fast charger, if you can live with that then you're sorted, deadly car for such low mileage to be honest.

    I suppose living in town you can take the train if you need to go to anywhere.

    Leaving the battery above 80% for long periods is bad so charge to 80% when using it daily and charge at 20-30% and if not using it for long periods at a time leave it at around 40% charge.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,247 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo



    Was hoping for something cheaper than 6 to 8k, at that price I'd be a lot cheaper just using existing car or even buying an ancient 1 litre polo/micra type banger as a run around.

    No it wouldn’t.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,247 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    Ps, and happy to be wrong here, but think they need to be in booster seats until around 12 these days? And booster seat presumably much safer as isofix?

    Age is irrelevant. It’s based on weight and height.
    Getting off topic but just thought it useful for the thread.

    525299.jpeg


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭ graememk


    Thanks to both.

    Don't need boot space, anything smaller than a leaf? Would prefer vw up size! Although I may not fit in a car that size myself!

    Well if you check the buy/sell thread there has been an e-Up just listed from a fellow boards member!

    One of the few, (maybe only one in Ireland)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,287 ✭✭✭ n97 mini


    Do you need a car regularly, like once a week to do grocery shopping? If not (or even if so), might be worth pricing using car sharing, e.g. gocar or yuko


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,544 ✭✭✭ wersal gummage


    Gumbo wrote: »
    No it wouldn’t.

    Is this meant to be helpful or what? From a moderator.

    Tell me how spending 8k on a car plus installing a charge point and annual insurance, charging etc would save me money as against doing those additional 1500km in my current car which is getting around 25mpg on city spins?


    Edit apologies your comment was in response to one of mine that didn't just refer to using existing car, but also referred to it being cheaper to buy an old banger petrol...

    Anyway, I'm guessing I could get an old micra or polo with an nct for 2 grand? Use it for say 40km a week, I'd be a long time driving that around before the 6 to 8k euro eV woukd work our cheaper surely? Am I missing something here?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,544 ✭✭✭ wersal gummage


    Thanks for all the comments.

    Trying to reply to a few queries.

    1500km a year, no we do more. I am estimating that this amount, maybe even a bit more, perhaps up to 3000km a year could be done in a little run around.

    Re booster and all that, yeah way off topic thanks I was just checking that i wasn't way off when person said isofix = room needed for buggies, I meant that they are well beyond buggy size these days but still need something, and that could be isofix presumably as safest option.

    Re renting a car, no not a chance. Not going to walk past the one in the driveway!

    Sorry, like many I suppose, I grew up on petrol cars and am really out of the loop on the details of eV models in last few years (I'd be aware of leaf, tesla, i3, iqonic etc and move in last few years towards greater options, but looking back a decade or so I wouldn't be familiar)

    I think something like that vw up would be perfect but really wouldn't make any financial sense for us at all at the. Maybe in another year or two I could pick up something like that when it is a bit cheaper, or just wait until we are changing the main car which will be for eV at that point I'm sure. There was no eV option for us when we bought last.

    On carfinder UK I did a search for ev and sorted by cheapest available.

    What's the view on a citroen c zero?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,544 ✭✭✭ wersal gummage


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    1500 Kms, is that a typo ? do you need a car for such little driving ? sorry, you see I drive 50,000 + kms a year so I'm a little jealous lol.

    .


    Thanks for your info re battery, this is the stuff I just don't know about.

    On your point above, I guess it's all down to decisions and priorities to some extent ? We have a relatively small house that cost 7 figures and I'd imagine someone commuting from a nice detached bit of space would be horrified at the size of our house and garden and the eye watering mortgage.... We can walk to work in 15 mins though....

    Anyway, even further off topic now!

    Thanks again


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭ graememk


    Thanks for all the comments.

    Trying to reply to a few queries.

    1500km a year, no we do more. I am estimating that this amount, maybe even a bit more, perhaps up to 3000km a year could be done in a little run around.

    Re booster and all that, yeah way off topic thanks I was just checking that i wasn't way off when person said isofix = room needed for buggies, I meant that they are well beyond buggy size these days but still need something, and that could be isofix presumably as safest option.

    Re renting a car, no not a chance. Not going to walk past the one in the driveway!

    Sorry, like many I suppose, I grew up on petrol cars and am really out of the loop on the details of eV models in last few years (I'd be aware of leaf, tesla, i3, iqonic etc and move in last few years towards greater options, but looking back a decade or so I wouldn't be familiar)

    I think something like that vw up would be perfect but really wouldn't make any financial sense for us at all at the. Maybe in another year or two I could pick up something like that when it is a bit cheaper, or just wait until we are changing the main car which will be for eV at that point I'm sure. There was no eV option for us when we bought last.

    On carfinder UK I did a search for ev and sorted by cheapest available.

    What's the view on a citroen c zero?

    Ah, your thinking of an Ev as a second car? bit of a run around/ dip your toe into things? Or intending to replace your current car?

    as mentioned further up a 24kwh leaf can be picked up reasonably cheaply, will only do 80km or so on a charge.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,544 ✭✭✭ wersal gummage


    graememk wrote: »
    Ah, your thinking of an Ev as a second car? bit of a run around/ dip your toe into things? Or intending to replace your current car?

    as mentioned further up a 24kwh leaf can be picked up reasonably cheaply, will only do 80km or so on a charge.

    Ah jaysus, sorry if I wasn't clear on that which will have confused people no end.

    Yeah we have an xc90 which we are keeping, bought it new, very happy with it. Plan to drive it into the ground to be honest. However, we are doing a lot of stupid stuff in it, up to the shops, nipping here and there, I'd say maybe 40km a week is done in that car which is a bunch of 2, or 3 or 4km trips....

    So I was wondering if I could squeeze a little eV car into the drive, be great to dip the toe in as you say, and when only one person in the car, or short run with the kids, be handy as well to have a small car around the city.

    I don't necessarily need it to make sound financial sense, or work out some equation where the eV is cheaper than continuing to use the existing car.... At 6 or 8k euro for a car it doesn't really work for me. I think I would want to be in the bangernomics territory really, but based on what I've learned here, the 25 leaf is 6k upwards. Do you see prices falling further as they get older or have they hit a sort of low point already?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,544 ✭✭✭ wersal gummage


    And ps thanks again for the info. I know it's probably annoying when someone pops into a specialised kind of subject like this place and starts asking really basic questions


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,688 ✭✭✭ 3DataModem


    I'm selling a 2015 leaf next week, 150km range and in great nick. I'll send you the link when its up as it will be priced to move.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭ graememk


    well there is leafs on donedeal for 4-5k, they are the cheapest evs on the market (as they have been around a good while), you might get lucky with a low ball offer!

    There will always be a residual value in the battery that people would want for solar storage etc, so the bottom value would be 1-2k, it will never be "worthless"

    edit:
    ie for solar storage, if you can pick up a "degraded" battery from a 24kwh leaf, even if it had 50% of its original capacity, thats still 12kwh, a new "solar battery" is 1k for 2.4kwh


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,823 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    graememk wrote: »
    well there is leafs on donedeal for 4-5k, they are the cheapest evs on the market (as they have been around a good while), you might get lucky with a low ball offer!

    I know of at least 2 of them that sold for around the €3.5k mark in the last few months

    Will be in the market for one of them myself in the new year

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,177 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    3DataModem wrote: »
    I'm selling a 2015 leaf next week, 150km range and in great nick.

    You are being very very optimistic there.

    100-120km is the real world range. The reading on the dash is not real world! ;)


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,998 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    Some 30's were sold in very late 2015


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭ CelticRambler


    You probably won't get smaller than the new Citroën Ami - would almost fit inside the XC90! Not sure if it's available in Ireland (yet) though. Definitely looks good as a runaround for adults, but can't see anywhere that it's got isofix for child seats.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,352 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    A 2015 Leaf will probably have no more than 90 - 100 km range at this stage and possibly less, depends on mileage too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,878 ✭✭✭ zg3409


    If you want to save money going from one car to 2 cars and very little mileage won't save you anything. 2 sets of tyres, tax, annual service, nct, insurance. Biggest cost is annual depreciation.

    EVs hold their value well as they are very cheap to run on commutes that match the range.

    In terms of home charger there is a 600 euro seai grant but you might need to add 400 to that. You can plug into an ordinary household socket, but not ideal.

    Really with such low mileage a petrol car makes sense, and and old one has lower depreciation.

    You will really save if you ditch your main car for an old leaf, and hire a petrol or diesel for the odd long trip. Join the fleet app is handy for hiring petrol or diesel cars locally nationwide without having to go to hire companies or gocar which is quite expensive for a few days.Hire companies can do good deals if you shop around too. It can be handy to hire a big 7 seater for staycations and have a smaller city car.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,688 ✭✭✭ 3DataModem


    3DataModem wrote: »
    I'm selling a 2015 leaf next week, 150km range and in great nick. I'll send you the link when its up as it will be priced to move.

    https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/nissan/leaf/fpa/202009063395741


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,823 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Very optimistic price for a white Leaf with no more than 100km range needing repairs to pass the next NCT in a few months time. No granny cable either? And only 3.3kW AC charging? Sorry if that's not what you want to hear. I admire the honesty in your ad, but I would either put up a more realistic asking price, or just accept a genuine offer, well below your asking price

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,352 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    3DataModem wrote: »

    10,500 ? I think you're around 2 K too high.

    Just saw the pics.

    Providing leaf spy report would help too.


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