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Bit of advice from the experts on a change of car

  • 25-08-2020 5:05pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ Lex Luthor


    Going to be going into the market soon and will be selling the diesel SUV

    I'll be getting a company vehicle so the requirement to have a diesel is no longer there and my wife is going to have this new car

    Basically she does mostly town driving, her job is 2-3km from the house and she will be doing school hops daily

    There will be the odd requirement during the months of March-Oct that we take trips up the country and may take the new car but that one way trip is about 150km and then the opportunity to charge is available

    so not sure whether to go full electric of PHEV

    budget is 40k and have looked online at the Kuga PHEV in ST Line spec which would allow me to add a few extras
    The ST Line X pushes it too close to 40k

    Suggestions please? I prefer the high driving style of an SUV type vehicle hence the kuga rather than a hatchback

    We'll still be keeping a small petrol hatch in the family as the older son will be using this going forward

    thanks


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,209 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Electric Crossovers in the €40k bracket are Niro and Kona.

    They've 400km+ range so way beyond what you need in terms of range.

    I wouldnt bother with a PHEV when you have your company vehicle to fall back on. You would really only look at those if you were a one car house or a two car house but your electric car didnt have the range you needed so the PHEV would be the fallback.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ Lex Luthor


    KCross wrote: »
    Electric Crossovers in the €40k bracket are Niro and Kona.

    They've 400km+ range so way beyond what you need in terms of range.

    I wouldnt bother with a PHEV when you have your company vehicle to fall back on. You would really only look at those if you were a one car house or a two car house but your electric car didnt have the range you needed so the PHEV would be the fallback.

    gotcha, good point
    any thoughts on the Peugeot e 2008?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,209 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Lex Luthor wrote: »
    any thoughts on the Peugeot e 2008?

    No experience with it. Not aware of anyone on here having one either but some people do have the e208 and are very happy with it so I'd say the e2008 is a safe enough bet too if its a car you like the look and price of.

    Book a test drive I guess and share your own opinion on it! :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,665 ✭✭✭✭ JPA


    What will be the daily and weekly mileage?

    Seems like a large budget for small mileage based on what you have said.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,103 ✭✭✭ kanuseeme


    The Kia e-Niro
    Go Electric with Kia

    From €39,495

    Ireland's Best Selling Plug-In Hybrid Niro phev

    From €32,495

    Just get the petrol kona and save 20 k or so

    Outlander, Grandland,

    You could save a few bob, by going to the uk and buying a year old car ect.

    Not a SUV but give a look at this https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008052113714?onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&year-from=2020&transmission=Automatic&radius=1500&body-type=MPV&body-type=SUV&make=BMW&fuel-type=Hybrid%20%E2%80%93%20Petrol%2FElectric%20Plug-in&sort=price-asc&advertising-location=at_cars&postcode=ls298jn&page=1

    its only 6 months old and vrt should be under 2000 euro with 50 km range on battery.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,922 ✭✭✭ zg3409


    With such low mileage you won't save anything on fuel. I would have thought a diesel is not suited to such short trios. An outlander is petrol plug in, and you could do all local trips on electric only. Its quite inefficient on long runs and with Mitsubishi pulling out of Europe warranty claims might be a problem. Either way no money to be saved and you seem to want to spend big. An Ioniq 28kWh will reliably do 150km and used is 20,000 euro, but not an SUV and probably not worth the hassle on charging for no real savings . public chargers are often bust, blocked or broken so the Ioniq would need public charging for trips over 160km.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ Lex Luthor


    JPA wrote: »
    What will be the daily and weekly mileage?

    Seems like a large budget for small mileage based on what you have said.

    probably 20km per day mid week on average, that might go up to 30km depending on the bus situation when the schools go back and they can provide a service meaning a double trip to the school

    theres a weekly round trip to the MIL which is 60km and also a weekly trip to dublin approx 80km round trip

    so apprx 250-275km per week


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ Lex Luthor


    kanuseeme wrote: »
    The Kia e-Niro
    Go Electric with Kia

    From €39,495

    Ireland's Best Selling Plug-In Hybrid Niro phev

    From €32,495

    Just get the petrol kona and save 20 k or so

    Outlander, Grandland,

    You could save a few bob, by going to the uk and buying a year old car ect.

    Not a SUV but give a look at this https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008052113714?onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&year-from=2020&transmission=Automatic&radius=1500&body-type=MPV&body-type=SUV&make=BMW&fuel-type=Hybrid%20%E2%80%93%20Petrol%2FElectric%20Plug-in&sort=price-asc&advertising-location=at_cars&postcode=ls298jn&page=1

    its only 6 months old and vrt should be under 2000 euro with 50 km range on battery.

    not a fan of hyundai's
    also same with BMW

    had considered Niro but looks a bit dated now


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ Lex Luthor


    zg3409 wrote: »
    I would have thought a diesel is not suited to such short trios. .

    diesel is not being used by her, I have it and use it but due to job change and company vehicle it would be surplus

    she has a small petrol hatch that my son will be using more often so need a motor for her and also between us

    the company vehicle possibly gonna be a van so may or not work at weekends as more than 2 travelling together and occasionally need 4 seats and some good space


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,907 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    I think an outlander PHEV would suit here.
    Get your normal weekly miles covered by electric but have the petrol engine for longer trips so you don't have the hassle of charging en route.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭ sumo12


    For such small mileage I think it should be EV. Why go PHEV when you still have an engine to service etc? I just can't see the benefit of PHEV at all, maybe I'm missing something. And I drive a Hybrid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,907 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    sumo12 wrote: »
    For such small mileage I think it should be EV. Why go PHEV when you still have an engine to service etc? I just can't see the benefit of PHEV at all, maybe I'm missing something. And I drive a Hybrid.
    Get the benefit of small trips on full EV, without the hassle of charging en route. And I'm a (B)EV owner.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,103 ✭✭✭ kanuseeme


    ELM327 wrote: »
    I think an outlander PHEV would suit here.
    Get your normal weekly miles covered by electric but have the petrol engine for longer trips so you don't have the hassle of charging en route.

    The OP is in for a bit of a surprise if he thinks the Niro is dated.:D:D:D

    The opel grandland?

    Reports of the kuga plug in catching fire recently?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ Lex Luthor


    ELM327 wrote: »
    I think an outlander PHEV would suit here.
    Get your normal weekly miles covered by electric but have the petrol engine for longer trips so you don't have the hassle of charging en route.

    friend of mine has the Outlander, his wife drives it and says its barely using the petrol engine
    The inside of them looks like its from the 90's

    for me I think he would have been better off with an EV as he also has a CR-V diesel in the house if they need to take a trip


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,103 ✭✭✭ kanuseeme


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057978477

    MG ZS BEV, 44kWh only problem is you have to import it from GB or maybe there is a dealer in the North.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,084 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    Before making a decision I'd wait to see what the Skoda Enyaq pricing comes in at. My own guess is starting under 40k but that's based on nothing.
    Reveal is on September 1st, so we should hopefully find out more then.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ Lex Luthor


    Spec'd up an Opel Grandland X SRi 5-door SUV 1.6 (225hp) on their config tool with a few extras for €1400 & metallic paint for €600 and total price comes in at just shy of €49k

    however on their main page on their website the starting price is €36,645 after rebates & grants

    I presume the online config tool isnt taking these grants etc into consideration?


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,384 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Low mileage perfect for 2nd hand but equally perfect for PCP because you will pay a lot less because you pay based on the calculated depreciation + interest, so, if your yearly mileage is low they you will pay a lot less than if you drive a lot more like I do.

    Go with the lowest deposit you can, the idea is to pay as little as possible over the 3 years, after year 3 you can hand it back or pay the balloon to own or get another car.

    A lot of cars already mentioned.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ Lex Luthor


    my wife has averaged 10,000km per year in her petrol hatch the last 6yrs and we estimate this could drop to about 8,000 going forward mainly due to having less to drive as one son will soon be driving himself

    So the PCP sounds like a viable option, never thought of it

    Have always saved up and bought cars outright

    Just as an example I had a look at the Corsa-e offer on the Opel website

    am I right in saying that they work out the GFV based on what mileage you estimate at the time of taking the car ?

    They currently have an example and a GFV of €10,102 after 3yrs. That sounds very low to me for a car value after 3yrs costing over €28k?

    I suppose at the end of the day, you have to pay the full value anyway no matter what the balloon payment is if you intend to renew the car or keep it


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,384 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Lex Luthor wrote: »
    my wife has averaged 10,000km per year in her petrol hatch the last 6yrs and we estimate this could drop to about 8,000 going forward mainly due to having less to drive as one son will soon be driving himself

    So the PCP sounds like a viable option, never thought of it

    Have always saved up and bought cars outright

    Just as an example I had a look at the Corsa-e offer on the Opel website

    am I right in saying that they work out the GFV based on what mileage you estimate at the time of taking the car ?

    They currently have an example and a GFV of €10,102 after 3yrs. That sounds very low to me for a car value after 3yrs costing over €28k?

    I suppose at the end of the day, you have to pay the full value anyway no matter what the balloon payment is if you intend to renew the car or keep it

    Buying with cash is always good and saves interest but it's a lot of cash to put towards a car, I'd rather pay a lump of cash towards the house, cars depreciate heavily.

    PCP, spend as little cash as possible, after year 3 you decide whether to keep it or pay off balloon but because you do such little mileage the balloon will be a lot higher for you than for me because I drive a lot more.

    Pay minimum deposit and pay per month keeping cash for more important things than dumping 40 odd K on a car.

    You should also be able to get PCP on a year old car too saving more.

    The 10 K GFMV at the end is too low and this is not a good deal for such low mileage meaning you'll be paying most of the car off making buying the car a lot more attractive than if the GFMV was say 20-25K, you're less likely to pay that off.

    So what's happening here is that Opel are unsure what the depreciation is going to be at the end of 3 years and fear it will be a lot so they make sure you're taking the risk.

    Usually it's in their interest to get you into a new car after 3 years and paying so much for the car in 3 years having a low balloon at the end isn't much of an incentive to change.

    Sometimes I don't think even the dealers know how pcp works because the idea is to pay as little for the car as possible and that's not the case in this example so I'd look elsewhere for better deals, you have a big advantage considering the low mileage you're Wife drives.

    So Opel are saying by this that the car will be worth 10K after 3 years, however, the car might be worth more and if that's the case then anything over is yours but don't take the risk because it's what's on paper which you sign is what matters.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭ peposhi


    My 2 pence...
    By the look of it you’d like to get a new/newer car for your OH and have the funds for it, otherwise you would not have bothered asking on here.
    PHEV - while it makes some sense with your low mileage it is a waste of money when you can get a good EV with long range that covers all your needs and avoids petrol pumps and maintenance related visits completely.
    BEV is the answer. Plenty of options out there. €33-35k you can easily snap a year old eSoul with 400km in the tank available to you every morning. New one is well within your budget, should you wish to go that road.

    Have you test-driven any so far?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭ njburke


    peposhi wrote: »
    My 2 pence...
    BEV is the answer. Plenty of options out there. €33-35k you can easily snap a year old eSoul with 400km in the tank available to you every morning. New one is well within your budget, should you wish to go that road.

    Have you test-driven any so far?

    33 -35 k is New VW ID3 pricing for 400Km range, PCP, trade in and warranty. Plenty of other options out there too for buyers at the moment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ Lex Luthor


    peposhi wrote: »
    My 2 pence...
    By the look of it you’d like to get a new/newer car for your OH and have the funds for it, otherwise you would not have bothered asking on here.
    PHEV - while it makes some sense with your low mileage it is a waste of money when you can get a good EV with long range that covers all your needs and avoids petrol pumps and maintenance related visits completely.
    BEV is the answer. Plenty of options out there. €33-35k you can easily snap a year old eSoul with 400km in the tank available to you every morning. New one is well within your budget, should you wish to go that road.

    Have you test-driven any so far?

    pretty much sums it up

    my own car (the diesel SUV) is probably worth about €15/16k so that could be used partially or fully towards a deposit and the rest on PCP over a 3yr period

    BEV seems to be the best option based on the mileage she does which will reduce down from middle of next year as the odd school run will be a thing of the past

    Havent driven anything yet

    went into the local Opel dealership yesterday and had a look around the Corsa-e but nothing available to drive
    To be honest, the sales guy was barely letting us sit in it
    Just said have a look there and then after 5min came over and asked if we had any questions. I asked could he unlock it so I could see inside :D

    They said they would have one available to drive in a week or so


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,084 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    Lex Luthor wrote: »
    my wife has averaged 10,000km per year in her petrol hatch the last 6yrs and we estimate this could drop to about 8,000 going forward mainly due to having less to drive as one son will soon be driving himself

    So the PCP sounds like a viable option, never thought of it

    Have always saved up and bought cars outright

    Just as an example I had a look at the Corsa-e offer on the Opel website

    am I right in saying that they work out the GFV based on what mileage you estimate at the time of taking the car ?

    They currently have an example and a GFV of €10,102 after 3yrs. That sounds very low to me for a car value after 3yrs costing over €28k?

    I suppose at the end of the day, you have to pay the full value anyway no matter what the balloon payment is if you intend to renew the car or keep it

    It's not unusual for a car to be worth between 40% and 65% of it's purchase price after 3 years. By setting the GFV at 35%, they are trying to ensure you have enough equity at the end of the PCP to trade up to a newer model. The way I look at PCP deals, is can I afford the monthly cost. If the answer is yes, then the lower the GFV the better, because it means I'm more like to have equity at the end of the term. When PCPs first rolled out, some manufacturers set very high GFVs, it made the car cheaper by the month, but meant you ended up with no equity at the end.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,384 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    liamog wrote: »
    It's not unusual for a car to be worth between 40% and 65% of it's purchase price after 3 years. By setting the GFV at 35%, they are trying to ensure you have enough equity at the end of the PCP to trade up to a newer model. The way I look at PCP deals, is can I afford the monthly cost. If the answer is yes, then the lower the GFV the better, because it means I'm more like to have equity at the end of the term. When PCPs first rolled out, some manufacturers set very high GFVs, it made the car cheaper by the month, but meant you ended up with no equity at the end.

    No that's not true, the low GFMV simply means they expect high depreciation and to buy expecting more than the GFMV is very foolish. It may or may not depreciate less but unless there's more on the PCP contract then the GFMV which there won't of course then assume and expect there to be nothing more above the GFMV.

    You see, the thing dealers and finance companies in Ireland fail to understand is that PCP is the way to drive a car for as little as possible for 3 years and a high GFMV means someone has to pay a high deposit and high monthly payments or paying a significant proportion of the cost of the car over 3 years while doing low mileage is not the way it's done. So beware of PCP with Low GFMV at the end because you still have to pay most of the cost of the car while taking most of the risk on depreciation.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,084 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    No that's not true, the low GFMV simply means they expect high depreciation and to buy expecting more than the GFMV is very foolish. It may or may not depreciate less but unless there's more on the PCP contract then the GFMV which there won't of course then assume and expect there to be nothing more above the GFMV.

    It looks to me like there are two models, high GMFV where you should be doing a personal lease instead, and the low GMFV where the intent is to sell you another car at the end of the term. Many people got stung by not understanding PCP the first time round. They had high GMFVs and people didn't save money for their next deposit. BMW and Nissan were particularly known for the high GMFV low monthlies approach.

    Other manufacturers went with using PCP as a way to turn over new cars every 3 years, in that case it's better to guarantee equity at the end. Looks like Opel are just trying to ensure they can sell you another car in 3 years time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,384 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    liamog wrote: »
    It looks to me like there are two models, high GMFV where you should be doing a personal lease instead, and the low GMFV where the intent is to sell you another car at the end of the term. Many people got stung by not understanding PCP the first time round. They had high GMFVs and people didn't save money for their next deposit. BMW and Nissan were particularly know for the high GMFV low monthlies approach.

    Other manufacturers went with using PCP as a way to turn over new cars every 3 years, in that case it's better to guarantee equity at the end. Looks like Opel are just trying to ensure they can sell you another car in 3 years time.

    I mean absolutely no disrespect to you at all but this isn't the way PCP is designed or supposed to be, Yes a lot of People don't understand PCP but that goes for the dealers too.

    As I said, PCP is designed for minimum deposit and minimum monthly payments to attract People to new cars every 3 years and the High GFMV is the Stick to get people into a new car instead of paying this high GFMV, they'll most likely put this money towards a new car for another 3 years, the carrot is the low deposit and low monthly payments, this of course is dependent on the mileage driven, obviously for me, driving 35-45K Kms a year or more will suffer massive depreciation which is calculated into my PCP payments and GFMV. But for those driving the National average or less should expect to pay a lot less per month with a much higher GFMV at the end meaning they expect to pay as little cash for the car as possible.

    You see, hoping the car is worth more in the end is madness because it's only on paper where the signature is that counts and it certainly won't say the car will be worth more at the end ( we promise with a ;-) )


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,862 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    No that's not true, the low GFMV simply means they expect high depreciation and to buy expecting more than the GFMV is very foolish. It may or may not depreciate less but unless there's more on the PCP contract then the GFMV which there won't of course then assume and expect there to be nothing more above the GFMV.

    You see, the thing dealers and finance companies in Ireland fail to understand is that PCP is the way to drive a car for as little as possible for 3 years and a high GFMV means someone has to pay a high deposit and high monthly payments or paying a significant proportion of the cost of the car over 3 years while doing low mileage is not the way it's done. So
    beware of PCP with Low GFMV at the end because you still have to pay most of the cost of the car while taking most of the risk on depreciation.

    FYP :pac:

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,862 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    I'm afraid it is you who doesn't really understand Mad_Lad. Liamog is spot on, the purpose of PCP is to entrap a person into buying a brand new car from them every three years. Obviously at a huge cost compared to buying a car outright. Didn't you pay over €22k for a 24kWh Leaf over 3 years and did not even own the car at the end of it? My depreciation of my 28kWh Ioniq was less than €6k over 3 years

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,384 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    unkel wrote: »
    I'm afraid it is you who doesn't really understand Mad_Lad. Liamog is spot on, the purpose of PCP is to entrap a person into buying a brand new car from them every three years. Obviously at a huge cost compared to buying a car outright. Didn't you pay over €22k for a 24kWh Leaf over 3 years and did not even own the car at the end of it? My depreciation of my 28kWh Ioniq was less than €6k over 3 years

    You're right about one thing and that's entrapment, so tell me, how is it entrapment if the GFMV is low instead of being high ? if the Person pays the brint of the car payments they might as well pay off the rest, the idea of a high GFMV is to make it far less attractive for someone to want to pay this high GFMV and instead put it towards another car, this fantasy thinking the car will be worth more than the GFMV is foolish because it's only the agreement on paper is what counts.

    Yeah, I paid a lot for the Leaf but I am on record in saying I did not expect the Leaf to be worth more than the GFMV. I knew exactly what I was getting into mainly because I had nearly 90,000 Kms on it, this is my greatest issue is high mileage which is even higher now but I'm still glad I didn't pay the full cost of the Leaf. The interest was way higher than today too.


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