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Moving from Oil to A2W and PV

  • 17-08-2020 8:09pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭ vmware


    OK house was built in 2011, and we are running under floor heating downstairs and rads up stairs.



    Im thinking of changing oil boiler for A2w, I have pumped the walls a few years ago. But the windows would not have been taped or sealed when installed.



    I would also need to swap the rads for Alu Rads? Am I wasting my time thinking about this change?


    Also might look at PV Panels If I goto A2W,


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,213 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    What are you spending on oil? That’s ultimately what will decide the economics of it.

    Also, Solar PV won’t really help your heating system. You put in SolarPV to reduce your daytime electricity bill during the spring/summer months. Heat pumps run a lot at night during night rate electricity and mainly winter.

    Also bear in mind you won’t qualify for the Solar PV grant as your house is 2011 built.


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭ vmware


    Ya I know Power was turned on in Sep 2011 so no GRANT :(

    2.5 tanks of Oil a year. On the Day / Night rate for Power at present.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,213 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    vmware wrote: »

    2.5 tanks of Oil a year.

    That’s bad alright.

    Seems to me you have a leaky house. I’d be starting with other measures first to get that bill reduced
    e.g air tightness.

    If there is money left over after that look at A2W then.


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭ vmware


    how do I go about getting the air tightness sorted without wrecking the place?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭ garo


    You can get a test that costs around 300 euro. That will tell you the level of airtightness but not where the leaks are. On a windy day walk around with some incense sticks checking every corner and edge. Cheap and cheerful.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,213 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    vmware wrote: »
    how do I go about getting the air tightness sorted without wrecking the place?

    Start with an air tightness test and that will identify how/where the issues are and go from there.

    Windows, doors, chimneys, sockets etc are the areas you will will be focussing on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭ vmware


    If I run an air tightness test, and it tells me im loosing heat from windows / roof,

    there is no east way to seal up the windows more


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭ vmware


    Just checked the bills for Oil

    Since Aug 2019 I have spent €1100 untill now. I thought the bills were worse

    ESB is costing 65e a month approx €780 for year


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭ vmware


    anyone else have any advise? Thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭ garo


    I don't think you'd be saving money with A2W given your current leaky house. It is possible to seal windows better. rolion has a thread on his DIY effort. Overall though I would spent money on getting the house better insulated before forking out several thousand on an A2W system.

    PV is a separate issue and you shouldn't mix the two. If you want to go for PV go for PV. Just note that it has a payback of ~10-12 years based on current rates.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭ vmware


    what insulation would you recommend ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭ garo


    I am not an insulation expert. Note that airtightness and insulation are two different things. Air tightness is pretty important but done wrong can also cause problems with condensation. You need to figure out where the problem is. Pointless for me to recommend anything without knowing what he problem is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,398 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    I'm thinking about HP again since the tank is nearly empty, roughly need 2-2.5 tanks a year, 80's bungalow Walls pumped, windows not the best and not fitted the best, that company from Munster again! lol.

    So many holes for money to fall into but since modern HP can heat to 80 Deg C they are supposed to be ideal replacements for Oil boilers, that's some achievement compared to a few years ago when A2W couldn't heat more than 40 Degrees.

    Oil around 450-500 per tank at current prices so I'd expect electricity to cost as much per year as oil which wouldn't really bother me because I'd just like to be off of oil and not have to bother filling up.

    My greatest issue is a reputable installer who knows what they're doing and won't rip me off.

    Some day if there's a Feed-In-Tariff I'll install as much solar PV as I can and export all the excess in the brighter months to buy back for the HP when I need it, or rather to run the whole house including HP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,213 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    I'm thinking about HP again since the tank is nearly empty, roughly need 2-2.5 tanks a year, 80's bungalow Walls pumped, windows not the best and not fitted the best, that company from Munster again! lol.

    So many holes for money to fall into but since modern HP can heat to 80 Deg C they are supposed to be ideal replacements for Oil boilers, that's some achievement compared to a few years ago when A2W couldn't heat more than 40 Degrees.

    You need to look at fixing your windows, air-tightness measures etc before you start looking at running a HP at 80°C! I wouldnt expect that HP to last very long and your electricity bills would likely be the same as your oil.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,398 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    KCross wrote: »
    You need to look at fixing your windows, air-tightness measures etc before you start looking at running a HP at 80°C! I wouldnt expect that HP to last very long and your electricity bills would likely be the same as your oil.

    As far as I am aware the HP designed to heat to 80C is as good running at this temp as a HP for 40 Deg C of a few years ago just the Technology has improved.

    We have no mortgage or Rent and the house needs doing up so being mortgage and rent free is great and the thoughts of paying off a loan to do up the house + move out and all that hassle is a turn off unless we can get away with doing parts of the house at a time or just do the basic upgrade.

    I think it's time to start looking for an Architect.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,213 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    As far as I am aware the HP designed to heat to 80C is as good running at this temp as a HP for 40 Deg C of a few years ago just the Technology has improved.

    Snake oil comes to mind. :)

    Maybe it’s true but I wouldn’t want to be the first to be trying it out.
    We have no mortgage or Rent and the house needs doing up so being mortgage and rent free is great and the thoughts of paying off a loan to do up the house + move out and all that hassle is a turn off unless we can get away with doing parts of the house at a time or just do the basic upgrade.

    I think it's time to start looking for an Architect.

    You’d need to be upgrading radiators anyway so there is no magic bullet for an 80s bungalow. Start with reducing heat demand, then look at heat pump if your boiler is on the way out and needs changing anyway.

    Starting with the heat pump, running it at 80C through traditional steel rads is asking for trouble imo but happy to get educated if there is some new fandango out there that’s proven and not snake oil marketing sales bull****.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭ Water John


    Suggest OP, and it applies to myself too, could look at The Eco Eye episode shown during the week. Showed 2 houses that had a 'deep refit'. It was a 50% SEAI grant job. The 2 houses were E and G. Both were brought to A3.
    No point in switching to HP until both house sealing and insulation are high grade.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,213 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    I see Daikin do one of these high temp HPs. They have two HPs built in to achieve it but the downside is a reduced COP (~3) which is poor by today’s standards so nothing for nothing.

    Two HPs means more to go wrong too.

    I’d still be looking at reducing your heat demand before looking at one of them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,398 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Water John wrote: »
    Suggest OP, and it applies to myself too, could look at The Eco Eye episode shown during the week. Showed 2 houses that had a 'deep refit'. It was a 50% SEAI grant job. The 2 houses were E and G. Both were brought to A3.
    No point in switching to HP until both house sealing and insulation are high grade.

    How much was the upgrade ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭ Water John


    Just to frighten you, one house was also being refurbished and they spent 80/100K. I missed if they gave a figure on the second house but thought it would be around 40/50K. Then at 50% grant that would be doable. Really the sealing was key. They also put in Heat Recovery Ventilation in both houses.
    Really need to see it again. Don't think it's up on Player yet.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭ Gerard93


    Water John wrote: »
    Suggest OP, and it applies to myself too, could look at The Eco Eye episode shown during the week. Showed 2 houses that had a 'deep refit'. It was a 50% SEAI grant job. The 2 houses were E and G. Both were brought to A3.
    No point in switching to HP until both house sealing and insulation are high grade.


    That episode of Eco Eye is on RTE Player now worth watching Thanks for the heads up on it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,997 gally74


    vmware wrote: »
    Just checked the bills for Oil

    Since Aug 2019 I have spent €1100 untill now. I thought the bills were worse

    ESB is costing 65e a month approx €780 for year

    youll get a BER as part of any PV work,


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