Centenary of partition to be commemorated

dere34

Boris is due to meet the Taoiseach in Belfast today where he is to outline plans to commemorate the founding of NI in 2021. In a place where a parade route can cause rioting, the British government is planning to explicitly poke the nationalist community in the face by celebrating the very thing they've been trying to undo for the last 100 years. You can expect dissident violence next year targeting the centenary events. Lives will be put at risk thanks to yet another reckless decision by this buffoon.

The reality is that BoJo knows that he will be the last PM of the United Kingdom. The SNP will sweep the floor in the Holyrood elections in May and Indyref2 will become unavoidable - it is likely to pass. Once that happens a border poll would be called and would likely pass. The union would be extinct and only England/Wales would be outside the EU. Boris is desperate to avoid this outcome which explains his recent trips to Scotland and now NI. He's trying to drum up support for the union - and failing.

I would compare this proposal to the Black and Tans fiasco. I hope the Taoiseach shows leadership and tells Boris and Brandon Lewis to shove it for the sake of security and stability. I won't hold my breath.

Quantum Erasure

We'll see what Micheal Martin is made of now. I'd rather him at that meeting anyway over Leo...

markodaly

Well if the Irish State can celebreate its Centenary with all its skeletons and warts et al, then why shouldn't the North? Fair is fair!

However, MM is not going to tell Boris to 'shove it' to satisfy the teenage angst of some wannabe keyboard republican.
Also, a UI in the next few years is laughable. There will be plenty more PM's to come and go before, if it even does happen.

McMurphy

markodaly wrote: »

Well if the Irish State can celebreate its Centenary with all its skeletons and warts et al, then why shouldn't the North? Fair is fair!

However, MM is not going to tell Boris to 'shove it' to satisfy the teenage angst of some wannabe keyboard republican.
Also, a UI in the next few years is laughable. There will be plenty more PM's to come and go before, if it even does happen.

The only way it won't happen is if the current GFA is torn up and rewritten, because in its current form it's a one way street.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Why do you think IndyRef2 is unavoidable?

McMurphy

Maximus Odd Syrup wrote: »

Why do you think IndyRef2 is unavoidable?

It is.

Not my post, so won't take the credit for it, but it explains how things work here.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

In essence the GFA is a flowchart that loops back to a border poll until a UI is voted in favour of.

Hodors Appletart

just on indyref2

the tories have to sign off on it if they are the govt. just as they have to sign off on a NI referendum.

so it is indeed completely avoidable

Hodors Appletart

McMurphy wrote: »

It is.

Not my post, so won't take the credit for it, but it explains how things work here.

indyref2 relates to Scotland, so not sure what the gfa has to do with it?

McMurphy

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

indyref2 relates to Scotland, so not sure what the gfa has to do with it?

I thought we were following on from the partition in this island - and what the GFA actually meant for that, seeing as that's what this thread is about?

Maybe I misread the flow of posts, if so, my bad.

Edit, didn't even see the Scottish vote mentioned in the op. My bad.

Hodors Appletart

McMurphy wrote: »

I thought we were following on from the partition in this island - and what the GFA actually meant for that, seeing as that's what this thread is about?

Maybe I misread the flow of posts, if so, my bad.

Edit, didn't even see the Scottish vote mentioned in the op. My bad.

grab a coffee man

McMurphy

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

grab a coffee man

Trying to multitask here, need to be careful not to invoice a client for a referendum. :pac:

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

just on indyref2

the tories have to sign off on it if they are the govt. just as they have to sign off on a NI referendum.

so it is indeed completely avoidable

This. There'll be no IndyRef2 any time soon, no matter what happens in Holyrood...

timthumbni

dere34 wrote: »

You can expect dissident violence next year targeting the centenary events. Lives will be put at risk.

I hope the Taoiseach shows leadership and tells Boris and Brandon Lewis to shove it for the sake of security and stability. I won't hold my breath.

I expect Irish republican violence every year. Sure its what they do. It doesn’t take the centenary celebrations of Northern Ireland to set them off.
Lives are indeed at risk from violent Irish republicans. Just think back to that wee girl from Londonderry they murdered last year.

The Irish PM will not be stopping any celebrations in NI. However the COVID situation might.

dere34

This is not something to be celebrating. We need to break up this satanic union, not commemorate it.

Ireland must be united and Scotland be independent.

Normal One

timthumbni wrote: »

Londonderry

Edgelord in da house

Allinall

dere34 wrote: »

Boris is due to meet the Taoiseach in Belfast today where he is to outline plans to commemorate the founding of NI in 2021. In a place where a parade route can cause rioting, the British government is planning to explicitly poke the nationalist community in the face by celebrating the very thing they've been trying to undo for the last 100 years. You can expect dissident violence next year targeting the centenary events. Lives will be put at risk thanks to yet another reckless decision by this buffoon.

The reality is that BoJo knows that he will be the last PM of the United Kingdom. The SNP will sweep the floor in the Holyrood elections in May and Indyref2 will become unavoidable - it is likely to pass. Once that happens a border poll would be called and would likely pass. The union would be extinct and only England/Wales would be outside the EU. Boris is desperate to avoid this outcome which explains his recent trips to Scotland and now NI. He's trying to drum up support for the union - and failing.

I would compare this proposal to the Black and Tans fiasco. I hope the Taoiseach shows leadership and tells Boris and Brandon Lewis to shove it for the sake of security and stability. I won't hold my breath.

Just on the bolded bits.

It's as if dissidents have no control over their actions, which is patently not true.

Lives will be put at risk, but not by who you claim.

timthumbni

dere34 wrote: »

This is not something to be celebrating. We need to break up this satanic union, not commemorate it.
.

I suggest you don’t celebrate it then. Simples. Let those who wish to partake in the centenary celebrations to do so.

Re satanic now that’s funny. Would a mass be in order?

markodaly

McMurphy wrote: »

The only way it won't happen is if the current GFA is torn up and rewritten, because in its current form it's a one way street.

Not at all, in fact the Irish Republican hope of democratic inevitability is actually false, more and more young people identify neither as Orange or Green.

They will need more convincing rather than a misty-eyed song or poem.
The GFA guarantees nothing, but the status quo

dere34

MM and Boris have met at Hillsborough to discuss Brexit and Covid and says he plans to build a special relationship with Ireland. First step - piss off many people on both sides of the border by celebrating partition.

timthumbni

dere34 wrote: »

MM and Boris have met at Hillsborough to discuss Brexit and Covid and says he plans to build a special relationship with Ireland. First step - piss off many people on both sides of the border by celebrating partition.

Well he is the leader of the Conservative and Unionist party after all. Did you expect him to shout chalky ar la? Perhaps if red Jeremy had won then possibly, but not with Boris.

James Brown

timthumbni wrote: »

I suggest you don’t celebrate it then. Simples. Let those who wish to partake in the centenary celebrations to do so.

Re satanic now that’s funny. Would a mass be in order?

I agree. People/groups commemorate the RIC and the Tan so why not this. They have the 12th etc. Each to their own.
Besides we have Chinese people who celebrate Chinese New Year and French who celebrate Bastille Day.
As long as no arsehole in government tries to make it an official state commemoration. Like a reverse 4th of July, let's celebrate dividing the country.
I'd support a rememberace day type event regarding the loss.

Junkyard Tom

timthumbni wrote: »

Well he is the leader of the Conservative and Unionist party after all. Did you expect him to shout chalky ar la? Perhaps if red Jeremy had won then possibly, but not with Boris.

Does the Irish Sea border he smacked Unionists in the mouth with not sting?

McMurphy

McMurphy wrote: »

It is.

Not my post, so won't take the credit for it, but it explains how things work here.

There is no “until” on the GFA, if there is a united ireland, both governments still have to stick with its terms. Parity of esteem being the main one.

Edgware

dere34 wrote: »

This is not something to be celebrating. We need to break up this satanic union, not commemorate it.

Ireland must be united and Scotland be independent.

Dont think that an independent Scotland will be anymore to our advantage than the present arrangement. Many Irish in Scotland realise the deep seated anti Irish bias in the Scottish establishment

timthumbni

Bowie wrote: »

I agree. People/groups commemorate the RIC and the Tan so why not this. They have the 12th etc. Each to their own.
Besides we have Chinese people who celebrate Chinese New Year and French who celebrate Bastille Day.
As long as no arsehole in government tries to make it an official state commemoration. Like a reverse 4th of July, let's celebrate dividing the country.
I'd support a rememberace day type event regarding the loss.

Well I’m from Northern Ireland so I will be celebrating it. COVID aside obviously which I think will stop most things for next year anyway.

There will be an official aspect of the celebrations of course. So what?

mikeym

Will there be bonfires?

Will there be parades down nationalist areas?

I see no benefit to both sides celebrating partition.

FrancieBrady

Bowie wrote: »

I agree. People/groups commemorate the RIC and the Tan so why not this. They have the 12th etc. Each to their own.
Besides we have Chinese people who celebrate Chinese New Year and French who celebrate Bastille Day.
As long as no arsehole in government tries to make it an official state commemoration. Like a reverse 4th of July, let's celebrate dividing the country.
I'd support a rememberace day type event regarding the loss.

After the quickest turnaround by a government I can ever remember over the B&T gaff, I don't think Michael will be risking that one. He better have Leo locked up around the time though.

He fairly landed the SDLP in it today. They will have no choice now to participate in all 'that has changed since the 20's' being as they are FF's wing in NI.

Sunny Disposition

Partition certainly hasn’t worked for the North so far, extremely divided society, relatively intolerant and it has a woeful economy. If there are celebrations it’ll just be a flag waving exercise, pretending it has succeeded when it is an abject failure.
Unionists have a lot to think about. It could be too late for them to appease what may already be a Catholic majority and will soon be a voting majority. They need to change course somehow and very fast.

James Brown

timthumbni wrote: »

Well I’m from Northern Ireland so I will be celebrating it. COVID aside obviously which I think will stop most things for next year anyway.

There will be an official aspect of the celebrations of course. So what?

I'm Irish too. People have a right to celebrate what they like even in the northern part of the country now. Hard fought for mind.
I was speaking about the Irish government. We've a few empire apologists in their ranks. Imagine the British government having an official state commemoration for the 1916 rising, nuts right? I'd support a day of mourning for the loss however long it may last.

Edgware

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Partition certainly hasn’t worked for the North so far, extremely divided society, relatively intolerant and it has a woeful economy. If there are celebrations it’ll just be a flag waving exercise, pretending it has succeeded when it is an abject failure.
Unionists have a lot to think about. It could be too late for them to appease what may already be a Catholic majority and will soon be a voting majority. They need to change course somehow and very fast.

What evidence do you have that a Catholic majority would necessarily mean a majority vote for unity? There are many Catholics doing very well thank you under the Crown.
Lovely to enjoy the trips to the holiday home in Donegal or to Dublin for the GAA and rugby but that is enough

Sunny Disposition

Edgware wrote: »

What evidence do you have that a Catholic majority would necessarily mean a majority vote for unity? There are many Catholics doing very well thank you under the Crown.
Lovely to enjoy the trips to the holiday home in Donegal or to Dublin for the GAA and rugby but that is enough

Catholics largely vote for SF and the SDLP who both advocate a united Ireland.
That’s pretty good evidence.
Some Catholics won’t vote for a UI of course, some Protestants would. But the failure of Ni over the 100 years is that it has always been divided, bitterly, on those lines. It’s a toxic, failed entity.
Would hope unionists take the time to reflect on how dysfunctional their beloved wee country is as well as celebrating its endurance.

Jinglejangle69

Is this actually real or another thread set up to slate FG?

Edgware

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Catholics largely vote for SF and the SDLP who both advocate a united Ireland.
That’s pretty good evidence.
Some Catholics won’t vote for a UI of course, some Protestants would. But the failure of Ni over the 100 years is that it has always been divided, bitterly, on those lines. It’s a toxic, failed entity.
Would hope unionists take the time to reflect on how dysfunctional their beloved wee country is as well as celebrating its endurance.

No its not pretty good evidence. It will all come down to money. In the secrecy of the ballot box the voters will ask themselves under what government will they be better off.
When push came to shove even that scumbag Brady from "republican" Crossmaglen saw the advantage in having a British passport

FrancieBrady

Edgware wrote: »

saw the advantage in having a British passport

That is actually an hilarious thing to say given the amount of applications for an Irish one coming from eh...Britain.

Sunny Disposition

Edgware wrote: »

No its not pretty good evidence. It will all come down to money. In the secrecy of the ballot box the voters will ask themselves under what government will they be better off.
When push came to shove even that scumbag Brady from "republican" Crossmaglen saw the advantage in having a British passport

The way people vote is excellent evidence, especially as the Constitutional question has been top of the agenda for decades.
If it only came down to money there would be no unionists at all.

timthumbni

Blaaz_ wrote: »

Cant imagine there would be much to celebrate,its been a failure


Pretty likely we have another 12 to18 months covid restrictions ahead of us anyway....so that will curtail that

We will celebrate. COVID aside obviously. We aren’t a SF funeral. We will try to keep people safe and save lives.

Edgware

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That is actually an hilarious thing to say given the amount of applications for an Irish one coming from eh...Britain.

It was an advantage for Brady. ( or so he thought)

Edgware

Blaaz_ wrote: »

Tbh mate,chances are this time next year,we will be at 7,000 deaths across the island

I hope im wrong like,but likelyhood of anything other than few hundred at any event worldwide before xmas 2021 is almost zero from what i can see

A rake of big old ira commerations,and hunger striker parades likely to be called off next year too....its a complelty fcuked up time to be alive

It is if your whole life is about marching up down a road following the Union Jack, Tricolour or Plough and Stars flags and a few out of tune bands. The rest of us have lives

FrancieBrady

Edgware wrote: »

It was an advantage for Brady. ( or so he thought)

You said it was an advantage 'even' for him.

For many many Britons having an Irish one is an advantage.

Sunny Disposition

Surely having a passport from any country is some kind of advantage?

Edgware

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You said it was an advantage 'even' for him.

For many many Britons having an Irish one is an advantage.

Yes. Every passport has its advantages and some have disadvantages depending on the circumstances in which it is used. Brady would be getting pissed in some kip and singing A nation once again with all the other bar stool republicans but when he needed it he toddled off and got a British passport

Junkyard Tom

timthumbni wrote: »

We will celebrate.

Celebrate what?

FrancieBrady

Edgware wrote: »

Yes. Every passport has its advantages and some have disadvantages depending on the circumstances in which it is used. Brady would be getting pissed in some kip and singing A nation once again with all the other bar stool republicans but when he needed it he toddled off and got a British passport

What has Brady got to do with the Centenary Of Partition?

Surely the relevant 'dig' would be at the people that will be celebrating NI clamouring en-masse to get themselves Irish passports this last while?

timthumbni

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Celebrate what?

The centenary of Northern Ireland obviously. You know the answer to this question fine well but decide to post a nonsensical question.

Sunny Disposition

timthumbni wrote: »

The centenary of Northern Ireland obviously. You know the answer to this question fine well but decide to post a nonsensical question.

But as I asked in another thread, what is there to celebrate? It’s a political failure, it’s the most bitterly divided place in Western Europe, a huge amount of its citizens don’t even want it to exist and its economy is very weak .
Surely a time for reflection rather than celebration.

Junkyard Tom

timthumbni wrote: »

The centenary of Northern Ireland obviously. You know the answer to this question fine well but decide to post a nonsensical question.

I really don't know the answer to it. Normal people celebrate positive events. What exactly came out of the north/partition that was positive?

McMurphy

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I really don't know the answer to it. Normal people celebrate positive events. What exactly came out of the north/partition that was positive?

Celebrating the 100th successive year that Britain didn't manage to jettison them.







Yet.

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I really don't know the answer to it. Normal people celebrate positive events. What exactly came out of the north/partition that was positive?

I'm kinda looking forward to it myself. It is going to be a year that will point up brilliantly how much of a failure it was and is.

'The Year Of Putting Lipstick On A Pig' would be apt if we named years like the Chinese do.

Sunny Disposition

It could be quite a bittersweet event for thoughtful unionists, I think. The big question that will loom is has partition been a failure or a success? I think it’s very hard to genuinely argue it has been a success. Maybe it’ll lead to some political change and unionists may attempt to be more inclusive as a result.

FrancieBrady

Newton Emerson reminding us of this doozy in the Sunday Times.



I wonder what they'll come up with for the 100 years - 'Ulster 2020 - Hypocrisy and Ignoring The Past Aplenty'?

timthumbni

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Newton Emerson reminding us of this doozy in the Sunday Times.



I wonder what they'll come up with for the 100 years - 'Ulster 2020 - Hypocrisy and Ignoring The Past Aplenty'?

The centenary year would be 2021.