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Good Directors Cuts

  • 12-08-2020 11:27pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 626 ✭✭✭ Wedwood


    Rumours of new cuts of Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker on their way to Disney+, following on the heels of this ‘Snyder Cut’ Justice League episode. It’s giving the term ‘Directors Cut’ a bad name.

    There was a time when proper Director Cuts were done, here’s a few:

    Lawrence of Arabia - Spielberg funded David Lean’s restoration, which saw some 40 minutes reinstated. Surviving actors such as Peter O’Toole, Omar Sharif and Anthony Quinn returned to redub the reinstated scenes.

    The Good, the Bad and the Ugly - Sergio Leone similarly brought back Clint Eastwood and Eli Wallace to redub reinstated scenes.

    Both restorations were done in the 80’s and are seamlessly done. If you’ve watched either/both on Blu-ray/Streaming, then you’ve seen the restored versions.

    Both those Directors Cuts improved classic movies, while many other Directors met with ‘mixed’ results. If you’ve any interesting examples share them here.

    (Try and not let the George Lucas stuff derail the thread, it’s been done to death at this stage)


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭ actuallylike


    Apparently Kingdom of Heaven's Director's Cut is amazing. Why don't studios just trust Ridley Scott


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,054 ✭✭✭✭ McDermotX


    Apparently Kingdom of Heaven's Director's Cut is amazing. Why don't studios just trust Ridley Scott

    Literally came on to post Kingdom of Heaven.

    A massive improvement on the theatrical cut.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭ Niska


    As above - When I saw the title first thought was Kingdom of Heaven. The theatrical cut is a mess, while the director's cut is magnificent in places and overall bone of Scott's best

    First director's cut I was aware of would have been Aliens. It adds a lot to the movie's background, and possibly better than the theatrical cut. But as I know all the extra background at this stage I occasionally prefer the leaner theatrical vetsion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭ S.M.B.


    Is there a difference between an Extended Cut and a Directors Cut? Didn't hear of an Last Jedi news.

    Aliens was the first extended cut that I remember seeing back in the day on VHS.

    Big fan of the Lord of the Rings extended versions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,343 ✭✭✭✭ Dav010


    Apocalypse Now (2001 redux, not the 2019 final cut) extra scenes in French planters and what happened to the playmates after they left the barracks show.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭ El Rifle


    I'm not sure theres even directors cuts anymore with the 'movies in a can' these days.
    The Final Cut of Alexander is a great movie, it was the 3rd version after the Directors Cut.

    Once Upon a Time in America was famously chopped down and I think Sergio Leone's wife said it was what killed him. Directors Cut is 4hrs+

    Dances with Wolves Directors Cut is over 5 hours long, pretty sure the longest film I've ever watched. Well worth it though


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 27,235 CMod ✭✭✭✭ johnny_ultimate


    S.M.B. wrote: »
    Is there a difference between an Extended Cut and a Directors Cut? Didn't hear of an Last Jedi news.

    Ain’t no Last Jedi director’s cut happening - Rian Johnson has been very clear that he cut whatever he cut for a reason, so the original version is his preferred version.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 27,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pixelburp


    McDermotX wrote: »
    Literally came on to post Kingdom of Heaven.

    A massive improvement on the theatrical cut.

    In what sense? I've heard this said before and while I didn't hate the theatrical cut, it was also "just a movie" I saw years ago and quickly forgot. Is this director's cut that transformative?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,493 ✭✭✭ Goodshape


    Blade Runner.

    Brazil.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,493 ✭✭✭ Goodshape


    Extended/directors cuts I don't like include Alien, Aliens and Terminator 2. A few interesting new scenes in those but there was absolutely nothing wrong with the originals and the new scenes don't fit well with the pacing of the films.

    It's a real pity that the longer versions tend to be the ones that get broadcast/streamed and reissued these days.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,517 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Sad Professor


    S.M.B. wrote: »
    Is there a difference between an Extended Cut and a Directors Cut?

    Traditionally director's cut meant the last cut of the film finished by the director before the studio/producer took over. So the release of a director's cut implies that the director did not have a final cut and there was studio interference in the theatrical cut. However these days it's used interchangeably with extended cut to mean a longer or alternate cut of a film even when the director had complete control over the theatrical version.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 27,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pixelburp


    Goodshape wrote: »
    Extended/directors cuts I don't like include Alien, Aliens and Terminator 2. A few interesting new scenes in those but there was absolutely nothing wrong with the originals and the new scenes don't fit well with the pacing if the films.

    It's a real pity that the longer versions tend to be the ones that get broadcast/streamed and resissued these days.

    I think the "Aliens" director cut restored two important scenes which added some texture: the scene with Ripley discovering the fate of her daughter was a great character moment of heartbreak; while the"auto guns" sequence added to the tension. The scene was a good reinforcement that for all the marines' superior tech, they were in a quickly deteriorating situation. Maybe it didn't add to the plot, but definitely the stakes IMO.
    Goodshape wrote: »
    Blade Runner.

    Brazil.

    What a great movie I haven't watched in too long. Was the studio-mandated cut of Brazil ever released? I seem to recall Gilliam took out adverts in Variety and made a very public stink - with the studio eventually releasing the original version , with the original downbeat ending.

    Not unlike Snowpiercer: where Bong Joon-ho had to make very public noise to prevent Weinstein chopping up the film to suit American / international cinemas.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 9,081 Mod ✭✭✭✭ ziedth


    I genuinely think the last Jedi could have been saved in the edit (And I say that as someone who was bitterly disappointed with the film). IE Cut all the casino planet stuff, limit the Finn/Rose Story to the essentials (Although I don't agree with the hate the poor girl got.... the character was just shocking) and if you could salvage the Poe Mutiny some bit..... Maybe add a scene for Luke so that his ending isn't quite as polarizing....... I'm afraid "Rise of" there is no saving.....

    Also Fully agree about the extended cut of Aliens...... Both scenes mentioned really added to the film.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,502 ✭✭✭ Outkast_IRE


    pixelburp wrote: »
    In what sense? I've heard this said before and while I didn't hate the theatrical cut, it was also "just a movie" I saw years ago and quickly forgot. Is this director's cut that transformative?

    Kingdom of heaven directors cut adds crucial scenes back into the movie.

    When you watch the directors cut, you will think how did they get away with some of the cuts in the first place. In the theatrical cut there are characters that suddenly change their behavior entirely and its not explained. Its honestly like a different movie and its up there with Ridley Scotts best. Here is a recent review of it

    https://collider.com/kingdom-of-heaven-directors-cut-ridley-scott-best-movies/


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,493 ✭✭✭ Goodshape


    pixelburp wrote: »
    I think the "Aliens" director cut restored two important scenes which added some texture: the scene with Ripley discovering the fate of her daughter was a great character moment of heartbreak; while the"auto guns" sequence added to the tension. The scene was a good reinforcement that for all the marines' superior tech, they were in a quickly deteriorating situation. Maybe it didn't add to the plot, but definitely the stakes IMO.

    I can't immediately remember the "auto guns" scene but the fate of Ripley's daughter was a nice extra scene that I think was better left out of the film. I'm sure it was intended to inform her relationship with Newt but that was unnecessary (the character of Newt and that relationship was strong enough on it's own) and the scene kills the pacing, imo.

    But the real failure - and I think it really impacts the film in a negative way - are the early scenes with the colonists and Newt's family on LV425. Would have been another fun "DVD extra" but it was the right choice to cut it out of the movie.

    I'm also pretty sure that Aliens is a good example of the director having nothing at all to do with the extended version.

    What a great movie I haven't watched in too long. Was the studio-mandated cut of Brazil ever released? I seem to recall Gilliam took out adverts in Variety and made a very public stink - with the studio eventually releasing the original version , with the original downbeat ending.

    Yeah, the "Love Conquers All" studio cut of Brazil is on the Criterion Collection edition. Similar enough to Blade Runner, it's almost an entirely different film.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,065 ✭✭✭ otnomart


    Donnie Darko by Richard Kelly


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭ mikhail


    Goodshape wrote: »
    I can't immediately remember the "auto guns" scene...
    I remember watching it for the first time. It's such a simple scene, but the tension is almost unbearable as the guns start to run dry.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 10,604 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Fysh


    I thought the Donnie Darko DC was really bad, myself, in that it went into more detail than needed about
    the time travel aspect
    and in doing so knackered the ambiguity that made the film compelling.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    pixelburp wrote: »
    I think the "Aliens" director cut restored two important scenes which added some texture: the scene with Ripley discovering the fate of her daughter was a great character moment of heartbreak; while the"auto guns" sequence added to the tension. The scene was a good reinforcement that for all the marines' superior tech, they were in a quickly deteriorating situation. Maybe it didn't add to the plot, but definitely the stakes IMO.



    What a great movie I haven't watched in too long. Was the studio-mandated cut of Brazil ever released? I seem to recall Gilliam took out adverts in Variety and made a very public stink - with the studio eventually releasing the original version , with the original downbeat ending.

    Not unlike Snowpiercer: where Bong Joon-ho had to make very public noise to prevent Weinstein chopping up the film to suit American / international cinemas.

    I thought the directors cut of aliens was primarily the colony and newts family finding the egg? What changed with the guns?

    And I personally thought the colony scenes added to the movie even though it left questions unanswered. Seeing them getting slaughtered might have joined the two versions better. I dunno


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭ MfMan


    The first time I saw Cinema Paradiso it was the reduced c. 2-hour theatrical release. Later, I got to see the (a) fuller director's cut which was nearly an hour longer and added depth and more explanation to the relationship between Toto and Elena. It made for a fuller, rounder film, yet I found the 2-hour version nearly more tear-jerking and moving, perhaps because of what you didn't see or know.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 27,235 CMod ✭✭✭✭ johnny_ultimate


    Yeah Donnie Darko director’s cut is awful ****e. I loved that film when I was a teenager, but I’d go as far as saying that cut was when I kinda grew out of it? It suggested to me Kelly didn’t even know what made his film work in the first place. The awkward revamped music cues; the exposition and graphics that drag the pacing and indeed sense of mystery down; just a general loss of pace and flow... just really was a bummer to watch IMO. If anything, it’s a case study in how financial restraints - as in the original cut - can sometimes result in a leaner, smarter film.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭ mikhail


    Fysh wrote: »
    I thought the Donnie Darko DC was really bad, myself, in that it went into more detail than needed about
    the time travel aspect
    and in doing so knackered the ambiguity that made the film compelling.
    That's a movie reputedly saved in the editing room. The director's cut is poor.
    I thought the directors cut of aliens was primarily the colony and newts family finding the egg? What changed with the guns?

    And I personally thought the colony scenes added to the movie even though it left questions unanswered. Seeing them getting slaughtered might have joined the two versions better. I dunno
    The director's cut is quite a lot longer: 154 mins vs 137, so all the little bits add up. Whether the cost to the pacing is worth what they add is really a matter of personal preference. I like it, but I couldn't fault anyone for preferring the theatrical cut.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,098 ✭✭✭ Tefral


    Apparently Kingdom of Heaven's Director's Cut is amazing. Why don't studios just trust Ridley Scott

    I watched this last night on the basis of this post. Couldn't believe the difference it made from the Theatrical version.

    Unbelievable movie. Would agree that its up there with Scotts finest work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,773 ✭✭✭✭ rob316


    Once Upon a Time In America is probably the most notable. Chopped down to 139 mins and it was panned, the original was 229 mins and is considered a masterpiece. Personally it would of been an even better movie if they found something in between the original is a little too long.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,488 ✭✭✭✭ CastorTroy


    I keep hearing about Kingdom of Heaven DC but after wasting about 2.5 hours on what became my least favourite film, I don't intend on chancing it.

    As for Donnie Darko it did that thing with inserting pages from a book. The Warriors went a similar route with some transitions done in comic page form. It's 1 of my last favourite cuts of that film.

    If the LOTR extended editions count then they're among my favourite Director Cuts.

    Although I can't remember the differences, I think Close Encounters is meant to have a good director's cut


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭ Tony EH


    'Aliens' is probably the best example of a director's cut done well.

    'Apocalypse Mow Redux' is an example of one that was completely and totally unnecessary and killed the flow of the picture. The theatrical cut is the superior to every other one and it won't be bettered. That extended bunny scene is terrible and the French plantation scene is a turgid pit stop. It's abundantly clear why they were cut in the first place.

    'Kingdom of Heaven' benefited from the extra material. But the film still suffers from things that no cut could salve, such as an insipid lead in Orlando Bloom. Likewise the problems with 'Alexander' wasn't its running time, it was the people in it. Farreller was a terrible idea as the lead character and Kilmer as Philip and Jolie as his missus are just flat out awful.

    As for 'Blade Runner', I have always preferred the original theatrical cut to any of Scott's meddling. The voice over never bothered me and in fact I think it added to the Film Noir feel that Scott was going for in the first place. Ford's narration gets a lot of stick, but it is no worse than the voice overs in the likes of 'Sunset Blvd.', 'Farewell, My Lovely' or 'Double Indemnity', which is what they were trying to recreate anyway. Plus, this bogus idea that Deckard was a replicant never sat right with me, because it was flat out stupid and simply doesn't work if you analyse the problems it throws up.

    In reality, there's actually been very few director's cuts or extended cuts that have bettered the originals, largely because there are massive flaws in the film, no matter what cut one is viewing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭ Tony EH


    Goodshape wrote: »
    I'm also pretty sure that Aliens is a good example of the director having nothing at all to do with the extended version.

    As far as I know, the "special edition" scenes were originally in the cut that Cameron submitted to Fox and they were cut on the order of Fox reps. because of length considerations.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,705 Mod ✭✭✭✭ ixoy


    Tony EH wrote: »
    As far as I know, the "special edition" scenes were originally in the cut that Cameron submitted to Fox and they were cut on the order of Fox reps. because of length considerations.
    I thought Cameron decided to cut them though based on the fact that showing what happened, for example, to the colonists on LV-426 ruined the tension later on.

    'The Making of Aliens' book is out later this year and will definitely give the answer. It also covers the Director's Cut, as it were, of 'Alien' which is actually shorter than the original theatrical cut.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭ Tony EH


    ixoy wrote: »
    I thought Cameron decided to cut them though based on the fact that showing what happened, for example, to the colonists on LV-426 ruined the tension later on.

    'The Making of Aliens' book is out later this year and will definitely give the answer. It also covers the Director's Cut, as it were, of 'Alien' which is actually shorter than the original theatrical cut.

    Can't say for sure about 'Aliens', but think I read it somewhere that it was Fox who asked for cuts on the original. Maybe Cameron cut the LV426 stuff at the beginning. But, I'm pretty certain he wanted the other stuff intact.

    There are two scenes in the "Director's cut" of 'Alien' that I like though. That scene where Lambert slaps Ripley after they bring Kane back on board is good for showing that both girls are very catty toward each other. And the scene where Ripley finds the cocooned Dallas needs to be in the film, to show that the drone isn't just killing people. It has a higher purpose, which is elaborated on in the sequel.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭ MfMan


    Tony EH wrote: »

    'Apocalypse Mow Redux' is an example of one that was completely and totally unnecessary and killed the flow of the picture. The theatrical cut is the superior to every other one and it won't be bettered. That extended bunny scene is terrible and the French plantation scene is a turgid pit stop. It's abundantly clear why they were cut in the first place.


    As for 'Blade Runner', I have always preferred the original theatrical cut to any of Scott's meddling. The voice over never bothered me and in fact I think it added to the Film Noir feel that Scott was going for in the first place. Ford's narration gets a lot of stick, but it is no worse than the voice overs in the likes of 'Sunset Blvd.', 'Farewell, My Lovely' or 'Double Indemnity', which is what they were trying to recreate anyway. Plus, this bogus idea that Deckard was a replicant never sat right with me, because it was flat out stupid and simply doesn't work if you analyse the problems it throws up.

    Not sure what version of A.N. the Beeb screened recently, but I liked the French plantation bit of it. As with all 'Road' movies, it added more varied characters and incidents that the protagonists encounter on their journey. (Look carefully to spot Pierre Segui, Julien from The Deerhunter).

    Equally, I preferred the version of Blade Runner without the voiceover and which suggests that Deckard is himself a replicant. It adds to the great ambiguity of the film. "How can it not know what it is?"


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