Nick Cave: 'cancel culture is bad religion run amuck'

cameramonkey

Nick Cave says that cancel culture is bad religion run amuck. He adds that

“Political correctness has grown to become the unhappiest religion in the world,” he wrote. “Its once honourable attempt to reimagine our society in a more equitable way now embodies all the worst aspects that religion has to offer (and none of the beauty) – moral certainty and self-righteousness shorn even of the capacity for redemption.”


He added that "cancel culture’s refusal to engage with uncomfortable ideas had an asphyxiating effect on the creative soul of a society, and that creativity could knock at foundational beliefs and in doing so generate fresh ways of seeing the world."


I think he is right here, the cancel culture warriors are like the fanatical catholic of old. They have no pity and no regard for those who have stepped from the doctrine. They are sure of their vision and righteous in their indignation.





https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/aug/12/nick-cave-political-correctness-bad-religion-run-amuck-cancel-culture

Mr Meanor

I think both Nick Cave and the Guardian are a bit late to that party.

biko

The only celeb I trust on the topic

KISS front man Gene Simmons thinks it’s time for celebrities to keep their political opinions to themselves:

“I think celebrities should basically shut their pie holes and do what they do best - act, sing, tap dance... all that kind of stuff”

James Brown

I think 'cancel culture' is a bull**** term used by people uncomfortable with change, long needed change.
Each incident is taken on a case by case basis. You can't say 'we should stop doing X, because cancel culture'.
Using 'cancel culture' is like SJW or snowflake. It's ignorant and dismisses a conversation before it's started.
'Cancel culture' isn't a movement. The dam broke so we are seeing a lot of criticism on things and people. It's a lot because a lot of **** has been bubbling for generations.

One eyed Jack

cameramonkey wrote: »

I think he is right here, the cancel culture warriors are like the fanatical catholic of old. They have no pity and no regard for those who have stepped from the doctrine. They are sure of their vision and righteous in their indignation.

Or, rather more likely, Nick Cave is a bit like the old Hierarchy of the Catholic Church who want to maintain their privileged position in society by turning the plebs against one another rather than allowing for the idea that people are capable of thinking for themselves without his guidance and the values that he imagines are essential to society, the kind of society he’s familiar with at least.

I like Nick Caves music, but I wish he’d just stick to the music, because what he said just makes him sound like an old fart who doesn’t like the way society is changing around him, same as all the rest of the names on that list in the article you linked to - “freedom of speech and freedom of ideas, but only the ones we agree with already”. That’s not what freedom actually means.

Cracking tune this is though -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnHoqHscTKE

i_surge

Bowie wrote: »

It's ignorant and dismisses a conversation before it's started.

Yes that is what cancel culture does.

growleaves

It's akin to McCarthyism or its equivalent in the Soviet Union where people like Boris Pasternak were hounded out of public life. It can be quite arbitrary and unfair who gets selected to have their livelihood and public standing destroyed for some perceived transgression.

Dyr

Bowie wrote: »

I think 'cancel culture' is a bull**** term used by people uncomfortable with change, long needed change.
Each incident is taken on a case by case basis. You can't say 'we should stop doing X, because cancel culture'.
Using 'cancel culture' is like SJW or snowflake. It's ignorant and dismisses a conversation before it's started.
'Cancel culture' isn't a movement. The dam broke so we are seeing a lot of criticism on things and people. It's a lot because a lot of **** has been bubbling for generations.

How about rock stars who **** kids, should they be cancelled?

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

How about rock stars who **** kids, should they be cancelled?

No. They should be prosecuted according to law

biko

Maybe the invention of cancel culture - Nikolai Yezhov cancelled.

James Brown

growleaves wrote: »

It's akin to McCarthyism or its equivalent in the Soviet Union where people like Boris Pasternak were hounded out of public life. It can be quite arbitrary and unfair who gets selected to have their livelihood and public standing destroyed for some perceived transgression.

It's nothing like that. Using terms like 'cancel culture' is akin to mccarthyism. May as well call everyone commie pinkos because you cant pinch arses in work anymore.

i_surge

Nothing progressive about a seething mob, vigilante amateur "journalism", the disproportionality of ruining a life or career for an ill thought out comment and the many ugly behaviours that round out that set.

Black mirror episode "hated in the nation" playing out in real life.

i_surge

Bowie wrote: »

May as well call everyone commie pinkos because you cant pinch arses in work anymore.

Comments like that debase a legitimate concern in the very same way you complained about the use of SJW or snowflake.

CrankyHaus

Bowie wrote: »

It's nothing like that. Using terms like 'cancel culture' is akin to mccarthyism. May as well call everyone commie pinkos because you cant pinch arses in work anymore.

You're creating a ridiculous strawman here.

Are you actually saying that cancel culture does not exist?

Sonics2k

biko wrote: »

The only celeb I trust on the topic

I agree!

Same goes for Doctors, they should just stick to doing medical stuff instead of giving their opinions on things. Obviously we need to include the Gardai in that, and fire fighters, oh and I suppose the nurses too. Teachers will need to shut up too.

And how about those uneducated people working in Centra, call centres, garages and everything. Sure what do they know about politics?

Also there's a beautiful irony in that Gene Simmons himself -frequently- discusses politics

https://loudwire.com/gene-simmons-predicts-landslide-victory-trump-2020/

Dyr

Bowie wrote: »

It's nothing like that. Using terms like 'cancel culture' is akin to mccarthyism. May as well call everyone commie pinkos because you cant pinch arses in work anymore.

Simple enough question Bowie, should pederast rock stars be cancelled?

How about their fans?

i_surge

Bambi wrote: »

Simple enough question Bowie, should pederast rock stars be cancelled?

How about their fans?

They should be behind bars if guilty.

Dyr

i_surge wrote: »

They should be behind bars if guilty.

Okay thanks, but I wasn't asking you.

James Brown

Bambi wrote: »

How about rock stars who **** kids, should they be cancelled?

A stern talking to in the least.
Up to the individual. That's my point.

nullzero

Bowie wrote: »

I think 'cancel culture' is a bull**** term used by people uncomfortable with change, long needed change.
Each incident is taken on a case by case basis. You can't say 'we should stop doing X, because cancel culture'.
Using 'cancel culture' is like SJW or snowflake. It's ignorant and dismisses a conversation before it's started.
'Cancel culture' isn't a movement. The dam broke so we are seeing a lot of criticism on things and people. It's a lot because a lot of **** has been bubbling for generations.

Your post offends me, you shouldn't be allowed to post any more, this is progress.

James Brown

Bambi wrote: »

Simple enough question Bowie, should pederast rock stars be cancelled?

How about their fans?

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet there horse.

James Brown

nullzero wrote: »

Your post offends me, you shouldn't be allowed to post any more, this is progress.

No that's not progress at all. If you can point out where I offended you I'll be sure to apologize, should I feel the need.

nullzero

Bowie wrote: »

No that's not progress at all.

Because it's you being cancelled?

You suggested that anyone using term "cancel culture" is ignorant, that's offensive.

James Brown

nullzero wrote: »

Because it's you being cancelled?

You seem irate. Should I call you a snowflake and ignore you?

i_surge

Bambi wrote: »

Okay thanks, but I wasn't asking you.

It's a discussion forum??

nullzero

Bowie wrote: »

You seem irate. Should I call you a snowflake and ignore you?

I'm irate?

As soon as I used the logic of cancel culture against you, you disagreed with it.

James Brown

nullzero wrote: »

I'm irate?

As soon as I used the logic of cancel culture against you, you disagreed with it.

You didnt read my comments. If you are upset by my comment point out where and if I agree, I'll apologise. If I dont I won't. Up to the individual. You can chose to stop watching my films n ****e

Dyr

Bowie wrote: »

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet there horse.

I just find it funny, someone rocking a pederast username and avatar while spouting on about "much need change"

Seems a tad...odd.

James Brown

Bambi wrote: »

I just find it funny, someone rocking a pederast username and avatar while spouting on about "much need change"

Seems a tad...odd.

Not if you understood my posts. Case by case basis. Up to the individual. You seem to be supporting this cancel culture myth.

i_surge

The thing about "much needed change" is whatever is going on is not working and only making things worse, many factors, a complex problem but this theme is a sizeable part of the societal decay that has happened in recent years.

Cookie_Monster

Who is Nick Cave and why should we care about his opinion?

James Brown

i_surge wrote: »

Any chance you all might discuss the topic in a bit more depth? Schoolyard stuff

Its going to be a thread about giving out about women, muslims and blacks. Getting it too much their own way and the like.

nullzero

Bowie wrote: »

You didnt read my comments. If you are upset by my comment point out where and if I agree, I'll apologise. If I dont I won't. Up to the individual. You can chose to stop watching my films n ****e

What is it with people saying things like "you didn't read my comments"? I clearly read your comments. I disagree with your opinion that cancel culture is some sort of organic manifestation of things that should be happening and have been threatening to happen for a long time. It's complete nonsense.

I don't expect you to apologise for anything, I think you are a loon but in my opinion you have every right to be a loon, just because you're saying something I disagree with doesn't mean you shouldn't be allowed to say it.

I thought it was pretty clear that I was lampooning the thought process (if it could be described as such) behind cancel culture.

Augme

Genuinely can't take any adult seriously when they use the phrase cancel culture.

ronivek

It's just yet another new term which is thrown around constantly as a way to disagree with some criticism without actually engaging in any meaningful way.

Rather ironically the term also tends to be bandied about by conservatives and religious types who for the most part have been engaging in organised and consistent 'cancelling' for literal millennia.

i_surge

Bowie wrote: »

Its going to be a thread about giving out about women, muslims and blacks. Getting it too much their own way and the like.

Don't be so defeatist. Stop rushing to judgements and open your mind and ears a bit.

nullzero

Bowie wrote: »

Its going to be a thread about giving out about women, muslims and blacks. Getting it too much their own way and the like.

Is anyone who disagrees with you probably wearing a MAGA cap as well?

biko

biko wrote: »

The only celeb I trust on the topic

Why? To use both directors and musicians as an example, plenty of the biggest in history have made expressing political views a central part of their works. Some people hold deeply political views and express them.

James Brown

i_surge wrote: »

Comments like that debase a legitimate concern in the very same way you complained about the use of SJW or snowflake.

My criticism of his calling cancel culture or people having a say, many for the first time, mccarthyism is debasing a legitimate concern? I disagree.

nthclare

Cancel culture is a load of bolloxology, anyone who wants to ruin someone's future because they're offended by a few words or opinions need help.
Or else their upbringing was sh17 because I remember my parents being tough and my old man helped me to be able for banter and ridicule.

There's a reason why movie's and comedians are certified for age's.

If you're immature highly sensitive best you just ignore anything that's offensive or else spend a few thousand on a good therapist and gain some life skills.

Or just fck off and stop ruining it for everyone else.

James Brown

nullzero wrote: »

Is anyone who disagrees with you probably wearing a MAGA cap as well?

Where are you going with this?

i_surge

ronivek wrote: »

It's just yet another new term which is thrown around constantly as a way to disagree with some criticism without actually engaging in any meaningful way.

Rather ironically the term also tends to be bandied about by conservatives and religious types who for the most part have been engaging in organised and consistent 'cancelling' for literal millennia.

I disagree...that is lazy thinking.

There is a trend of people being cancelled or punished in some way, usually judgement comes from mob rule, sometimes it is right, most times there is reasonable doubt. I couldn't be further from the conservative religious right and I disagree with it all out of principle. I would like my concerns to be listened to and not lazily dismissed.

Same as "whataboutery", a clever tactic to dismiss good arguments with a single word.

James Brown

nthclare wrote: »

Cancel culture is a load of bolloxology, anyone who wants to ruin someone's future because they're offended by a few words or opinions need help.
Or else their upbringing was sh17 because I remember my parents being tough and my old man helped me to be able for banter and ridicule.

There's a reason why movie's and comedians are certified for age's.

If you're immature highly sensitive best you just ignore anything that's offensive or else spend a few thousand on a good therapist and gain some life skills.

Or just fck off and stop ruining it for everyone else.

Agreed.
I dont see any memo going around telling me to not watch this or that.
People will decide themselves.

i_surge

nthclare wrote: »

Cancel culture is a load of bolloxology, anyone who wants to ruin someone's future because they're offended by a few words or opinions need help.
Or else their upbringing was sh17 because I remember my parents being tough and my old man helped me to be able for banter and ridicule.

There's a reason why movie's and comedians are certified for age's.

If you're immature highly sensitive best you just ignore anything that's offensive or else spend a few thousand on a good therapist and gain some life skills.

Or just fck off and stop ruining it for everyone else.

It is a cancerous thing. There are at least a few shows on netflix with the storyline of clever teen destroying the life of the perceived villain with a few taps on their phone and the power of social media.

Kids watch that and grow up thinking that is how life should be.

nullzero

Bowie wrote: »

Where are you going with this?

You're questioning the efficacy of what I said when you just posted a diatribe against anyone disagreeing with your stance on this topic?

"These people don't like X so the obviously have a problem with Y and Z", absolutely laughable.

James Brown

nullzero wrote: »

You're questioning the efficacy of what I said when you just posted a diatribe against anyone disagreeing with your stance on this topic?

"These people don't like X so the obviously have a problem with Y and Z", absolutely laughable.

Do you think when people post their opinion they are giving your orders or speaking in absolutes?

That's what your MAGA hat inference came across as alright.

nullzero

Bowie wrote: »

Do you think when people post their opinion they are giving your orders or speaking in absolute?

That's what your MAGA hat inference came across as alright.

Giving me orders? What are you talking about.

You posted your opinion on the topic and I posted mine in response. If you're saying now that you don't actually hold that opinion then why did you post it to begin with?

You posted saying and I quote "Its going to be a thread about giving out about women, muslims and blacks. Getting it too much their own way and the like."

What are you trying to communicate with that statement exactly? To me it says that if someone disagrees with you on this topic they obviously don't have any respect for women or minorities. You are filling in the blanks and profiling people based on their opinion on one topic. Or did you not really mean that either?

Guy:Incognito

Bowie wrote: »

I think 'cancel culture' is a bull**** term used by people uncomfortable with change, long needed change.
Each incident is taken on a case by case basis. You can't say 'we should stop doing X, because cancel culture'.
Using 'cancel culture' is like SJW or snowflake. It's ignorant and dismisses a conversation before it's started.
'Cancel culture' isn't a movement. The dam broke so we are seeing a lot of criticism on things and people. It's a lot because a lot of **** has been bubbling for generations.

Its almost like people just dont want their ****ty behaviour called out so go on the offensive against the real bad guy, the person telling them not to do **** like sexually assault people...............

i_surge

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Its almost like people just dont want their ****ty behaviour called out so go on the offensive against the real bad guy, the person telling them not to do **** like sexually assault people...............

Too Dramatic

What about the non sex offending types who have been cancelled in various ways?

James Brown

nullzero wrote: »

Giving me orders? What are you talking about.

You posted your opinion on the topic and I posted mine in response. If you're saying now that you don't actually hold that opinion then why did you post it to begin with?

You posted saying and I quote "Its going to be a thread about giving out about women, muslims and blacks. Getting it too much their own way and the like."

What are you trying to communicate with that statement exactly? To me it says that if someone disagrees with you on this topic they obviously don't have any respect for women or minorities. You are filling in the blanks and profiling people based on their opinion on one topic. Or did you not really mean that either?

I gave an opinion and explained it.
You took offence seemingly.
Its communicating how people are in a hurry to shut down any opinion they disagree with, which is ironic.
Now you are inferring things on my behalf and criticising those things. You dont need me at all you're arguing with yourself.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

Have to get back to basics in the education system start teaching kids

'Sticks and stones may break my bones
But words will never hurt me.:

&

Having a hard neck.

Holding people responsible for other people's feelings is crazy and far to subjective