Schools and Concerns

mirrorwall14

Hi folks,

I’m posting as a parent not a teacher here (I’m second level). Our lad is going into senior infants and so there is no pod or social distancing being applied to him at all. There will be 29 in his class. My mum is immunocompromised and both grandparents on the other side are over 70. I’m wondering about visiting once schools are open. Do we do it? Do we just call it and say no during school term? One set are three hours away so not ideal for trips unless we stay over. Outside visits only when the weather holds? He won’t wear a mask for me and he is still 5.

I’m very torn on it. He missed them so much but it’s a huge jump in the contacts for our family, he would only have had play dates individually with three off his classmates this summer. No summer camps or anything like that. We wear our masks and practice social distancing so it’s a huge change

What are other parents thoughts? Particularly those with at risk grandparents?

Dravokivich

You've really got it 2 fold. The environment your son is going to be in, and the environment you yourself are going to be in.

It's going to be a bit tricky for everyone to figure this out, until schools are able to digest the guidelines published earlier in the week.

Thinking of the pod things, it's going to be a bit odd. My son goes to creche for afterschool. They've arranged Pods based on the kids who get on with each other. It seems more practical. But there's a kid from his school in a different class, in the pod, and another 2 kids from different neighbouring schools in that pod too. And when the school term returns, they'll be kids who didn't use the creche over the summer, who'd be split amongst those 3 schools and a fourth.

Can't blame the creche for that. Or anyone in fact. but there's a lot more that needs to be considered with kids, then some other people seem to acknowledge. Kids are webbed between so many different things these days.

mirrorwall14

Yeah I just didn’t want to turn this into teacher stuff tbh. I’m already resigned to probably not seeing my mum for the next few months as I’ll be seeing 300+ students a week in poorly ventilated and not properly socially distanced rooms. I’m hoping diligent hand washing by me and changing etc before I pick up the boys might be enough to allow them to at least garden visit their grandparents with my husband (he works from home).

Are there any nurses/docs here parents? How are you managing? Do you visit?

Dravokivich

Wouldn't have seen it as that. I just meant to recognise both of you have exposure to a greater number of people than most of us. And generally speaking, kids do now, more so than 30 years ago when we would have been kids.

Lizardlegz

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Yeah I just didn’t want to turn this into teacher stuff tbh. I’m already resigned to probably not seeing my mum for the next few months as I’ll be seeing 300+ students a week in poorly ventilated and not properly socially distanced rooms. I’m hoping diligent hand washing by me and changing etc before I pick up the boys might be enough to allow them to at least garden visit their grandparents with my husband (he works from home).

Are there any nurses/docs here parents? How are you managing? Do you visit?

I work in healthcare and I’m also pregnant on my forth child. I’m still working in the hospital which is obviously a high risk environment. My mum is also over 70 and gets bad pneumonia during the winter.

I’ve kept the children home with me since Covid. As I’m high risk and immunocompromised myself I worked from home out of the clinical side of things when the virus was at its worst.

I’ve returned to clinical since June. I think this is just a way of life now to be honest. I think we just have to get on with things albeit carefully otherwise what life will we have? I’m still visiting my mum every day or every second day. We are not social distancing. But I am very careful when out or at work. It’s never going to be 100% safe but what life will be leading otherwise? I think we just need to get on with things and use our common sense and the protections that are available to us when mixing outside our close circle.

My littlest is starting Monte in September, and my other 2 primary. Yes I’m concerned... very concerned but I think it’s just something we need to deal with and get on with our lives.

I’m very concerned for the coming winter so we will just wait and see if there is a resurgence then and re evaluate.

Neyite

It's beginning to get concerning all right.



I think I'll continue to keep him away from the vulnerable in our family. It sucks but the risk just isn't worth it. Our extended family is extra cautious but that's because a sibling's in law caught it and was lucky to survive.

shesty

Senior infant mum here too, and 1 ECCE also.I will keep an eye on numbers but stick to meeting them outdoors if possible for as long as we can, and otherwise maybe steer clear.It's a big concern, but an equal concern is their education (well mainly the SI) and I feel I do have to prioritise her education while the schools are open.

Millem

My son is going into senior infants and my other son will be in Monte ECCE. The older one has 5 weeks of outdoor summer camps all outdoors. The younger one did 2 weeks of Monte when it reopened week 1 and week 2 of July.
We have play dates etc in the house (small group of the same kids) and share lifts for summer camps.
I am also heavily pregnant.
Up until 2 weeks I have been visiting my parents but stopped due to be heavily pregnant the drive was too much. Both parents are 70 and my Dad would have a number of underlying health conditions. We generally would stay in the garden and kids wouldn’t hug or kiss the Grandparents.
The way I see it is our mental health is more important. I felt the lock down really affected my older boy.
Don’t get me wrong we wash our hands etc.
I wouldn’t bring them to playgrounds etc I am only happy for them to go into controlled environments.
We did go to the zoo but left ASAP as I didn’t feel comfortable with the lack of social distancing.

byhookorbycrook

The “pod” thing is a complete PR spin . It’s basically the table system that has been in use for years .
There are no extra teachers at primary level . No social distancing in classes of 30 or more and a “ plan” that ignores airborne transmission.

mirrorwall14

Yeah. I’m in lockdown now so our last trip home for the summer is gone and tbh I think given where I am that’s the last visit to the west for the foreseeable. I’d never forgive myself if I passed something on. We’ll look into booking a hotel around Christmas so we can do a properly socially distanced visit rather than staying like we usually would

lazygal

Maybe I'm too laid back. I've no concerns. They need to go back to school. We'll see how it goes for the first while. Mine are first and second class. I'll send them in with their own hand sanitiser and we'll avoid the grandparents until things settle down. But we have to live with risk for now.

fits

I think it all has to be viewed in context of what is going on in community. I wouldn’t have major concerns right now but if numbers increase locally to me I’ll withdraw from visiting grandparents. One grandparent is on dialysis.

Schools have to be prioritised above everything else. By nature they will be riskier but we have to mitigate risks in other settings to allow them to return.

fits

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

There are no extra teachers at primary level . No social distancing in classes of 30 or more and a “ plan” that ignores airborne transmission.

What would you suggest?

eviltwin

I’ve kind of giving up worrying about it. What will be will be. It’s better if kids get back into education ASAP but it’s a balancing act. I see the logic of those who want them back and those concerned. So I don’t know where that leaves us long term.

Digs

eviltwin wrote: »

I’ve kind of giving up worrying about it. What will be will be. It’s better if kids get back into education ASAP but it’s a balancing act. I see the logic of those who want them back and those concerned. So I don’t know where that leaves us long term.

Totally agree. I haven’t the energy to be worrying about it either. I have to hope they’ll get back in some capacity and will do everything I’m asked/comply 100% to get them there. I have one going into Rang 1 and other second yr of ECCE and whatever about me they desperately need to get back.

ETA: I’m not for 1 second dismissing those that are worried, I just personally have no control over what happens so have to go with it (bar consistently washing hands, social distancing, wearing masks etc in terms of control).

Neyite

It's relatively easy to keep kids away from at-risk groups when they aren't in their family home though. Different story if they have a sibling or parent that's in an at-risk category.

RocketRaccoon

We are in a bit of a sh1te situation. Our daughter is going into first class but my MIL is her minder so we don't know what to do. She's the sort of child who gets a cold every other week during school so I can't see any chance of her not bringing this home too.

mmmflan

It is hard to balance it all up, and hard not to worry about it.

Mine are going into Sr. Inf. and ECCE and we live with my immunocompromised parents. I want to have confidence in if community transmission is under control then schools should be safe, but with the recent events I'm honestly freaking out. But my kids are freaking out being at home too!!!!

Theboinkmaster

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

We are in a bit of a sh1te situation. Our daughter is going into first class but my MIL is her minder so we don't know what to do. She's the sort of child who gets a cold every other week during school so I can't see any chance of her not bringing this home too.

- if your MIL is healthy then crack on
- if your MIL has issues then you may need alternative childcare

CV-19 not going anywhere in next 12 months and kids need to go back to school.

Theboinkmaster

mmmflan wrote: »

It is hard to balance it all up, and hard not to worry about it.

Mine are going into Sr. Inf. and ECCE and we live with my immunocompromised parents. I want to have confidence in if community transmission is under control then schools should be safe, but with the recent events I'm honestly freaking out. But my kids are freaking out being at home too!!!!

you may have to consider moving away from parents, as situation doesn't sound sustainable for next 12 months unless your parents accept the risk.

schools will never be "safe" in that situation, will always be some risk.

eviltwin

Anyone know if the Dept of Ed will impose fines on parents who don’t send their kids to school?

wirelessdude01

eviltwin wrote: »

Anyone know if the Dept of Ed will impose fines on parents who don’t send their kids to school?

Contact the department and ask if you want to know. We aren't England where fines can and are imposed.

Dravokivich

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

you may have to consider moving away from parents, as situation doesn't sound sustainable for next 12 months unless your parents accept the risk.

schools will never be "safe" in that situation, will always be some risk.

Your suggestion is a bit of an over simplification of the issue that lead to them living with their parents. My son and I live with my folks, because I can't afford not to. I'd be assuming they were in the same situation.

eviltwin wrote: »

Anyone know if the Dept of Ed will impose fines on parents who don’t send their kids to school?

There's already a process in place for assessing children that have missed 20+ days. I'd expect if anything is to be done, it'll be through that.

SusanC10

I am concerned about sending both of our Kids back. One in 5th and 1 in Secondary.
We have had no word from the Secondary but got some emails from Primary. 1 Bubble is the 2 5th Classes.
I don't have any confidence in this notion of Pods or Bubbles as there will be Kids on the Bus, Kids going to different Creches, activities etc after school. Mixing away.

We have been conservative. Husband WFH and I am SAHM. Kids are back playing GAA but that is it. No play dates etc. We have visited one family friends and stayed outside.

My Mum is the only Grandparent left. She is elderly with an underlying health condition and lives 3.5 hours drive away from us. My sister with special needs and more than 1 health condition lives with her.
We are there now and will come back next week. We have spent a significant amount of time this Summer there since the restrictions lifted.
Once we are back home, I don't know when we will come again. Will have to see how things go.

Theboinkmaster

Dravokivich wrote: »

Your suggestion is a bit of an over simplification of the issue that lead to them living with their parents. My son and I live with my folks, because I can't afford not to. I'd be assuming they were in the same situation.

I disagree - it's simple choice: don't send kids to school and keep parents safe or do send them to school and risk parents. or find alternative like moving out so you can send kids to school AND keep parents safe. Maybe there are other alternatives....

lazygal

If anyone can't send their children to school because of a living situation then they're going to have to homeschool or find new living arrangements.

Dravokivich

lazygal wrote: »

If anyone can't send their children to school because of a living situation then they're going to have to homeschool or find new living arrangements.

Neither of those are as easy to achieve as they are to say.

lazygal

Dravokivich wrote: »

Neither of those are as easy to achieve as they are to say.

Facts are not easy.
If your child won't be able to attend school based on your current situation those are your options.

Dravokivich

lazygal wrote: »

Facts are not easy.
If your child won't be able to attend school based on your current situation those are your options.

You don't seem to grasp that neither of them are actually options?

lazygal

Dravokivich wrote: »

You don't seem to grasp that neither of them are actually options?

What options do you want?

Dravokivich

lazygal wrote: »

What options do you want?

I wasn't asking anyone to provide options. It just seemed a bit insensitive to completely dismiss the difficult situation some find themselves in. And petty comments like, deal with it, or move out, completely miss the mark.

lazygal

Dravokivich wrote: »

I wasn't asking anyone to provide options. It just seemed a bit insensitive to completely dismiss the difficult situation some find themselves in. And petty comments like, deal with it, or move out, completely miss the mark.

But this is the reality of life now. Children who for whatever reason won't be able to go to school will have to be schooled at home. And if a living situation is one reason they can't go to school changing the living situation is the choice to be considered. Facts are not insensitive.

Dravokivich

lazygal wrote: »

But this is the reality of life now. Children who for whatever reason won't be able to go to school will have to be schooled at home. And if a living situation is one reason they can't go to school changing the living situation is the choice to be considered. Facts are not insensitive.

The issue isn't a "matter of fact" lazygal. It is the tone and presentation of the comments that are insensitive as you are refusing to acknowledge why someone is in the position they are in, in the first place. Again, neither of those options are options, when it is not possible to act on them.

lazygal

Dravokivich wrote: »

The issue isn't a "matter of fact" lazygal. It is the tone and presentation of the comments that are insensitive as you are refusing to acknowledge why someone is in the position they are in, in the first place. Again, neither of those options are options, when it is not possible to act on them.

You are personaling comments needlessly.
You are the one who's said your living situation is a reason for concern about your child attending school. Getting annoyed with people pointing out the fact that we're in a global pandemic is a reason why all of us have had to make changes to our lives, big and small, makes zero sense.

Dravokivich

lazygal wrote: »

You are personaling comments needlessly.
You are the one who's said your living situation is a reason for concern about your child attending school. Getting annoyed with people pointing out the fact that we're in a global pandemic is a reason why all of us have had to make changes to our lives, big and small, makes zero sense.

I'm not personalising it at all. I haven't said that either, I was supporting someone elses position that was being dismissed. I've done nothing to refute the global impact of the pandemic and if you saw comments from me elsewhere on it, you'd know that. I'm very well aware of the difficulty that is going to exist for some time to come. But if someone is in a position where they're living situation is based on economics, they aren't going to be able to change it so "factually." And to push it as an option makes zero sense.

lazygal

What do you want people to say though?
Your living situation is affecting your child's ability to attend school.

Dravokivich

lazygal wrote: »

What do you want people to say though?
Your living situation is affecting your child's ability to attend school.

It isn't. I never said it would.

lazygal

Dravokivich wrote: »

It isn't. I never said it would.

So why bring up your living situation then, when it's completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Dravokivich

lazygal wrote: »

So why bring up your living situation then, when it's completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Because I was being sympathetic and recongising the position another poster was in, that was being dismissed.

Uncle Pierre

If I may......I think in fairness that they really are the options. For anybody in that situation, you either have to:

- send the kids to school, and accept the risk
- move to live somewhere else
- somehow home school the kids instead of sending them to school, or
- not educate them at all.

I honestly can't think of any other alternative. Granted, none of them are attractive, and one or two of them might not even be feasible (e.g. moving somewhere else, if you can't afford it). But that doesn't mean you can avoid having to make a choice between them, and therefore they're the only options you have.

For what it's worth, our own lad is aged 6, and will be starting 1st Class. All we can do is trust the school does all it can, and hope for the best. All four grandparents are still living, but one of them is in a vulnerable group, so we've already had to reluctantly decide that he won't be able to visit there for at least a while after he returns to school.

We don't know yet what we'll do when the inevitable outbreaks of ordinary colds or even flu start going round later in the year. Our options will be to send him to school and hope none of the illnesses are Covid 19, or not send him to school at all, as a precaution. Again, neither of them particularly attractive, but they'll be the only options we'll have.

EDIT: Just thought of another option. It's to send the kids to live somewhere else. Again, it's neither attractive nor realistic, but by definition, it's an option.

scarepanda

lazygal wrote: »

What do you want people to say though?
Your living situation is affecting your child's ability to attend school.

Do you seriously think that the options are that simple? Home school, move out or throw all caution to the wind and send the kids off to school with a vulnerable person in the house?

For example, my mam was a SAHM, when I was 12 my granny moved in with us after a bad fall and never moved back to her own house. She had been living with my bachelor farmer uncle, but her needs after the fall were more demanding and personal that he was able to offer or she was willing to accept from him. We lived at the top of the road from their house. The rest of mams siblings lived over 30 minutes away and had families of their own.

In that situation, what exactly would you propose happen? Ship granny off to a nursing home? After the way nursing facilities have been managed?

lazygal

Dravokivich wrote: »

Because it was sympathetic to the position another poster was in, that was being dismissed.

But the fact is if someone's living situation or childcare or anything else is a factor in whether their children can attend school they'll have to consider whether a change in circumstances is necessary.
You're taking a weird level of offence at something that doesn't apparently affect you at all.

Dravokivich

lazygal wrote: »

But the fact is if someone's living situation or childcare or anything else is a factor in whether their children can attend school they'll have to consider whether a change in circumstances is necessary.
You're taking a weird level of offence at something that doesn't apparently affect you at all.

I didn't take any offense to it. But I wasn't going to sit aside, when someone who just expressed the state of play for themselves, was being told to do things, they very likely wouldn't be able to do.

jlm29

scarepanda wrote: »

Do you seriously think that the options are that simple? Home school, move out or throw all caution to the wind and send the kids off to school with a vulnerable person in the house?

For example, my mam was a SAHM, when I was 12 my granny moved in with us after a bad fall and never moved back to her own house. She had been living with my bachelor farmer uncle, but her needs after the fall were more demanding and personal that he was able to offer or she was willing to accept from him. We lived at the top of the road from their house. The rest of mams siblings lived over 30 minutes away and had families of their own.

In that situation, what exactly would you propose happen? Ship granny off to a nursing home? After the way nursing facilities have been managed?

I suppose in that scenario the sahm is in a reasonable position to work through the school work at home?
People are going to have to make choices, watch numbers carefully, be very aware of and responsive to symptoms etc. It’s going to be difficult for parents who are stuck for childcare when kids get coughs and colds this winter, but I don’t think there’s a magic One solution For all, people will need to figure out what will work for them and their households

Uncle Pierre

scarepanda wrote: »

Do you seriously think that the options are that simple? Home school, move out or throw all caution to the wind and send the kids off to school with a vulnerable person in the house?

For example, my mam was a SAHM, when I was 12 my granny moved in with us after a bad fall and never moved back to her own house. She had been living with my bachelor farmer uncle, but her needs after the fall were more demanding and personal that he was able to offer or she was willing to accept from him. We lived at the top of the road from their house. The rest of mams siblings lived over 30 minutes away and had families of their own.

In that situation, what exactly would you propose happen? Ship granny off to a nursing home? After the way nursing facilities have been managed?

It's not that the options are that simple. Instead, it's that they're that limited.

Basically the same unfortunate and difficult set of options would apply in a case like you've outlined. Either send the kids to school and accept the risk coming into your home, or granny goes to live somewhere else, or the kids live somewhere else, or you home school the kids, or you don't educate them at all.

A terrible position to be in, but at the end of the day, you'd have to choose one of them.

Neyite

It's the parents that I'm worried about, frankly.

I've seen over the years parents knowingly sending their child in with a vomiting bug, or chicken pox, or head-lice not giving a sh!t that their kid will infect others. You see parents deliberately sending in peanut butter sandwiches because why should their darling have to forgo just because some kid in their class could die. And that's just the selfish ones, there's plenty more who think the virus is a hoax, or no worse than a cold or that essential oils will fix it.


Schools I have faith in, parents, not so much.

lazygal

There's a family in our school who don't vaccinate and it makes me seethe knowing they won't get the covid vaccine either.
I wish vaccination was a requirement of entry to publicly funded schools

Lizardlegz

Neyite wrote: »

It's the parents that I'm worried about, frankly.

I've seen over the years parents knowingly sending their child in with a vomiting bug, or chicken pox, or head-lice not giving a sh!t that their kid will infect others. You see parents deliberately sending in peanut butter sandwiches because why should their darling have to forgo just because some kid in their class could die. And that's just the selfish ones, there's plenty more who think the virus is a hoax, or no worse than a cold or that essential oils will fix it.


Schools I have faith in, parents, not so much.

This x100!!!!! I’m more concerned about the (selfish silly) parents than anything else...

scarepanda

.

scarepanda

jlm29 wrote: »

I suppose in that scenario the sahm is in a reasonable position to work through the school work at home?
People are going to have to make choices, watch numbers carefully, be very aware of and responsive to symptoms etc. It’s going to be difficult for parents who are stuck for childcare when kids get coughs and colds this winter, but I don’t think there’s a magic One solution For all, people will need to figure out what will work for them and their households

See, people have gone from it being a simple black or white choice to 'I suppose', everyones situation is different, anyone living with a parent/grandparent have a reason that's not a straight black and white situation.

As for what would have happened in the situation i outlined, I've no idea what choice my parents would have made. There would have been no way that granny would have been sent somewhere else to live, there would have been no one in a position or willing to take on her care, if she went back into my uncles house mam would still have been the main carer just that granny would have lived in a different house, and although my parents came from a different era than parents today, my mother wouldn't have been best placed to do home schooling because of her own education background. And as for shipping the kids out? Come on, does anyone think that's a realistic option for many people? I'm not trying to be obstinate by throwing out problems to any of the possible solutions, I just know that if covid happened when I was a kid it would not be an easy choice for my mam, her kids or her mother, the guilt of choosing one over the other would have eaten her alive.

Uncle Pierre

scarepanda wrote: »

I just know that if covid happened when I was a kid it would not be an easy choice for my mam, her kids or her mother, the guilt of choosing one over the other would have eaten her alive.

That's more or less exactly what I'm saying myself, with the only difference being that you maybe came from the other side of the fence to get there.

It wouldn't be an easy choice for anybody, but it's a choice that would have to be made.

I just got involved in this discussion when somebody said that certain things aren't options at all, in order to point out that they are the options, no matter how unpalatable or unfeasible they might be. Because anybody in any of those situations will have to make one of those choices, no matter how difficult it may be.

By the way, no, I don't expect anybody to seriously consider sending the kids to live somewhere else! I was just throwing that one in for the sake of completeness!