Different rules for the same sort of crime

Justin Credible Darts

Was reading the cork evening echo...and saw this where a drunk 22year breaks a car window and gets 3 months.


https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Three-months-in-jail-for-smashing-car-window-in-Cork-housing-estate-4784625b-f9b7-475d-9de5-b4dc6fb2b8c5-ds





On the same site, on the same day....another youth, also drunk , breaks car window, and is even found in the car


https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Student-given-chance-to-pay-for-damage-after-drunken-night-in-Cork-5461fd54-cd08-41d9-b401-d5841f086568-ds





One gets 3 months, and the "foreign student" gets no time inside and given extra time to make compensation.


I am defending neither, but is scumbag #1 getting the prison term solely because he amazingly could not come up with compensation. ?

When I read Mayfield in the first article I knew he'd be short of a buck. If you can stump it up, and be of reputable stock then all your worries melt away.

Justin Credible Darts

Deleted User wrote: »

When I read Mayfield in the first article I knew he'd be short of a buck. If you can stump it up, and be of reputable stock then all your worries melt away.

He could afford to get sloshed, and I am sure even the poorest people in the country could come up with 200 quid to avoid jail.


Thing is we have seen people commit far worse crimes, even seen paedos get suspended sentences, and people crying out for stronger sentences, and whilst I think all sentences should be longer, it does seem odd, a broken window would get long a sentence in todays courts.

ceegee

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

He could afford to get sloshed, and I am sure even the poorest people in the country could come up with 200 quid to avoid jail.


Thing is we have seen people commit far worse crimes, even seen paedos get suspended sentences, and people crying out for stronger sentences, and whilst I think all sentences should be longer, it does seem odd, a broken window would get long a sentence in todays courts.

https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-examiner/20180308/281809989406245

Priors probably had a part to play in the sentencing

Randy Archer

ceegee wrote: »

https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-examiner/20180308/281809989406245

Priors probably had a part to play in the sentencing

Ah, the dangers of relying on the media to record all of the facts of a case. I had assumed the first lad possibly had previous. Good dig up

To be fair to the judge in the first case, based on the article, he might have given him a chance or reduced the jail time if he could come up with two hundred quid

In the second case, the article was clear, if he doesn’t have the money, he was going to jail .

There’s nothing in the second case to suggest that the conviction goes away. A few days in jail for him might be nothing compared to the problems he might find in getting a job . Granted, it’s in media so that might give him cool street cred , but it will be tricky for him getting visas if he needs to travel outside Europe . There’s little to suggest in the first case that employment is a big concern for him

cj maxx

Not exactly the same but I've seen local courts hammer Irish man with no priors , working, good enough back ground get nailed for a €1000 fine for drink driving while eastern European man with 3 priors, no tax or insurance and priors for that too get €200 fine
Joke.

Randy Archer

cj maxx wrote: »

Not exactly the same but I've seen local courts hammer Irish man with no priors , working, good enough back ground get nailed for a €1000 fine for drink driving while eastern European man with 3 priors, no tax or insurance and priors for that too get €200 fine
Joke.

Same judge ?

European man definitely would have licence suspended . Know the full details ? Reason for only 200 ?

Justin Credible Darts

cj maxx wrote: »

Not exactly the same but I've seen local courts hammer Irish man with no priors , working, good enough back ground get nailed for a €1000 fine for drink driving while eastern European man with 3 priors, no tax or insurance and priors for that too get €200 fine
Joke.

was the eastern european man done for drink driving as well...or simply no tax and insurance ?

cj maxx

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

was the eastern european man done for drink driving as well...or simply no tax and insurance ?

Drunk driving. His 3rd time iirc.
And also his 3rd time for insurance. But because he can't pay and him and his 3 kids will be on SW I think it's cheaper to the state. Same judge. It was in the northern standard about 2years ago

Justin Credible Darts

cj maxx wrote: »

Drunk driving. His 3rd time iirc.
And also his 3rd time for insurance. But because he can't pay and him and his 3 kids will be on SW I think it's cheaper to the state. Same judge. It was in the northern standard about 2years ago

thats insane

Hannibal36

cj maxx wrote: »

Drunk driving. His 3rd time iirc.
And also his 3rd time for insurance. But because he can't pay and him and his 3 kids will be on SW I think it's cheaper to the state. Same judge. It was in the northern standard about 2years ago

Standard stuff in Irish courts,Eastern European guy most likely skirted the wrong side of the law and knew where to get the right solicitors. Romanians generally have their go to lawyers too who properly defend them, you will usually see them walk out with a slap on the wrist while the honest Irish guy gets the book thrown at him for being honest and not rich enough to get a decent lawyer.

Kylta

I found growing up in the north inner city in 80s/90s in Dublin that it was basically what area you came from or to be more precise what placename of the area almost guaranteed you a prison sentence. That also goes for the surrounding areas finglas/crumlin (not going to mention all the areas) etc. But if we had little hope of walking out of court. Well the travellers whether they were guilty or not had no hope. They were fu¢ked for just showing up in court and always got far heavier time for their crime that most criminals recieved.
I wonder is it still the same nowadays or has justice opened her eyes a bit so were all treated equal or at least a bit more fairer

pm1977x

Have a look at the massive imbalance between sentences men get vs women, it’s unreal how lightly women get off!

dotsman

As has been pointed out, there are massive differences between these cases.

One is a violent scumbag with a history of violent crime who destroyed property for his amusement.

The other is a nice guy, with nor previous issues who did a stupid drunken act.

But, even without knowing what we know, there is often more to these things, that doesn't get reported such as appearance and attitude in Court. If you have ever been to a District Court you would be shocked. I went once, where about 100 people' cases were processed over the course of the day. Of these, I only identified 3 who I regarded as "nice" people who just fcuked up. The other 97, if you permanently locked them up, you would halve the anti-social/violent crime in one go. But those 3 stood out a mile compared to the other scum.

Edgware

Kylta wrote: »

I found growing up in the north inner city in 80s/90s in Dublin that it was basically what area you came from or to be more precise what placename of the area almost guaranteed you a prison sentence. That also goes for the surrounding areas finglas/crumlin (not going to mention all the areas) etc. But if we had little hope of walking out of court. Well the travellers whether they were guilty or not had no hope. They were fu¢ked for just showing up in court and always got far heavier time for their crime that most criminals recieved.
I wonder is it still the same nowadays or has justice opened her eyes a bit so were all treated equal or at least a bit more fairer

The sentence now usually comes after. 1. Juvenile informal caution. 2 Formal caution. 3 Juvenile Court Probation Act. 4 Juvenile Court Suspended Sentence. 5 Adult Court Probation Act 6 Adult Court Fine 7 Adult Court Suspended sentence 8. Sentence but temporary release due to overcrowding 9. Sentence but time off for good behaviour

Tony EH

There are always a large amount of circumstances that come into play with each crime that is committed.

The charge may be the same, but the events and reasons why it happened and the person involved can be very different.

biko

One has priors, the other not.
Although Leo Tihic must be some kind of extra stupid to break into a car to sleep.
Deportation should always be considered when a foreigner commits a crime here that could lead to prison. We have enough c***s as it is.

Kylta

Edgware wrote: »

The sentence now usually comes after. 1. Juvenile informal caution. 2 Formal caution. 3 Juvenile Court Probation Act. 4 Juvenile Court Suspended Sentence. 5 Adult Court Probation Act 6 Adult Court Fine 7 Adult Court Suspended sentence 8. Sentence but temporary release due to overcrowding 9. Sentence but time off for good behaviour

In my day it was the probation act. But not all first offenders were given this. Most of
People i know were straight to jail do not past go. At least the system has changed and hopefully it gives the first offender a chance to correct themselves before they start a life in penal system

Justin Credible Darts

pm1977x wrote: »

Have a look at the massive imbalance between sentences men get vs women, it’s unreal how lightly women get off!

I remember numerous cases of British women who made up false rape claims against multiple men.


One called Aiya Napa accused a dozen men of a gang rape, and tried to destroy the lives of twelve people.
She lied, was found guilty and got only 4 months.
That lying b1tch should have got 12 sentences each the same length as each man would have got.


Then there was another one, an obese thing who falsely accused 6 men all individually of raping her.
She only got 10 years, despite one of her made up attackers being locked up, another went on the run for fear of going to prison as a rapist , acrime he did not commit.


Again, she should have got the 10years by SIX.


These vindictive evils cows set out to destroy peoples lives and get the most lenient sentences

Edgware

Kylta wrote: »

In my day it was the probation act. But not all first offenders were given this. Most of
People i know were straight to jail do not past go. At least the system has changed and hopefully it gives the first offender a chance to correct themselves before they start a life in penal system

Thats fine but now they are given several "last chances"
Although I am in favour of giving young people a few chances especially if they have been acting the gob****e with public order or minor criminal damage. However if violence is involved the penalty should be a deterrent

Kylta

Edgware wrote: »

Thats fine but now they are given several "last chances"
Although I am in favour of giving young people a few chances especially if they have been acting the gob****e with public order or minor criminal damage. However if violence is involved the penalty should be a deterrent

I agree with your post but if X say from malahide assaults somebody and is guilty, and say Y from darndale assaults somebody and is guilty of an absolute identical crime then they both should get the same sentence to the day.

ShatterAlan

pm1977x wrote: »

Have a look at the massive imbalance between sentences men get vs women, it’s unreal how lightly women get off!

Women don't belong in custody.


A rare few are dangerous but a VERY rare few.


Men who are violent pose a much higher threat.

dotsman

Kylta wrote: »

I agree with your post but if X say from malahide assaults somebody and is guilty, and say Y from darndale assaults somebody and is guilty of an absolute identical crime then they both should get the same sentence to the day.

But there is a lot more to it than just the suburb. Some of the biggest factors are "what are the chances of this kid going back on the straight and narrow?"
"how has this person behaved in the past?"
"what impact will the sentence have on the criminal?"

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Women don't belong in custody.

Hi there Ivana!

Afraid it is the other way around. If we want to have any hope of ever tackling organised crime, we will need to stop letting women off.

kenmm

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

One gets 3 months, and the "foreign student" gets no time inside and given extra time to make compensation.

Just curious - why the quotes - It reads like you are trying to imply something?

Kylta

dotsman wrote: »

But there is a lot more to it than just the suburb. Some of the biggest factors are "what are the chances of this kid going back on the straight and narrow?"
"how has this person behaved in the past?"
"what impact will the sentence have on the criminal?"

There is always going to be circumstances surrounding a crime. But if justice is justice if you commit a crime and the standard sentence is say 5yrs irrespective of whatever area the person oringinated from privileged or not privileged then the sentence is 5yrs.
Its my opinion that this is what's wrong with the judicial system at the moment.

dotsman

Kylta wrote: »

There is always going to be circumstances surrounding a crime. But if justice is justice if you commit a crime and the standard sentence is say 5yrs irrespective of whatever area the person oringinated from privileged or not privileged then the sentence is 5yrs.
Its my opinion that this is what's wrong with the judicial system at the moment.

But the address itself is not the issue. When you drill down in to it, it is the other factors. Remember, "Correlation does not imply causation".

Kylta

dotsman wrote: »

But the address itself is not the issue. When you drill down in to it, it is the other factors. Remember, "Correlation does not imply causation".

It maybe not the issue now, with how the courts system have evolved, but I was referring to past tense. Where you sentence definitely revolved around your address. I can remember Dublin 1(for example) mostly being a notorious criminal hot spot. It was only when the likes of the docklands redevelopment and money was invested and name changes to various roads and complexs in these areas has it become an acceptable address.

Edgware

Kylta wrote: »

I agree with your post but if X say from malahide assaults somebody and is guilty, and say Y from darndale assaults somebody and is guilty of an absolute identical crime then they both should get the same sentence to the day.

A scumbag is a scumbag regardless of where they are from

riclad

Judges look at the person's past, did they commit serous crimes, did they use drugs , are they homeless, is it a first offence . They have to take a no of factors into account before they pass a sentence.
We have limited prison space.
People usually go to prison for serious crimes,
Or crimes of violence.
This is not the USA where people can go to jail
just for possessing a small amount of drugs.
Someone who goes to jail may have a hard time getting a job when then are released

pm1977x

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Women don't belong in custody.


A rare few are dangerous but a VERY rare few.


Men who are violent pose a much higher threat.

Completely disagree and that's deeply sexist, women are equally capable of violence and can be just as much a threat.

Justin Credible Darts

pm1977x wrote: »

Completely disagree and that's deeply sexist, women are equally capable of violence and can be just as much a threat.

of course.


Women want equality, but are quick to claim they should not be in custody, what utter nonsense



Women are just as violent and evil as men, and any women think is deluded enough to think otherwise needs to educate themselves

imme

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

Was reading the cork evening echo...and saw this where a drunk 22year breaks a car window and gets 3 months.


https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Three-months-in-jail-for-smashing-car-window-in-Cork-housing-estate-4784625b-f9b7-475d-9de5-b4dc6fb2b8c5-ds





On the same site, on the same day....another youth, also drunk , breaks car window, and is even found in the car


https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Student-given-chance-to-pay-for-damage-after-drunken-night-in-Cork-5461fd54-cd08-41d9-b401-d5841f086568-ds





One gets 3 months, and the "foreign student" gets no time inside and given extra time to make compensation.


I am defending neither, but is scumbag #1 getting the prison term solely because he amazingly could not come up with compensation. ?

The second case hasn't been finalised so no comparison can be made.

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

He could afford to get sloshed, and I am sure even the poorest people in the country could come up with 200 quid to avoid jail.

You can get slashed for 20 quid. If every person in the country were able to access 200 euro on request, there would be no rough sleeping, or people using food charities. Some people cannot even afford the cost of a homelessness hostel.

No, I dont think everyone in the country can access 200 euro to avoid jail. And jail is such an ineffective waste of time, that many convicted criminals probably wouldn't even want to.

Kylta wrote: »

I found growing up in the north inner city in 80s/90s in Dublin that it was basically what area you came from or to be more precise what placename of the area almost guaranteed you a prison sentence. That also goes for the surrounding areas finglas/crumlin (not going to mention all the areas) etc. But if we had little hope of walking out of court. Well the travellers whether they were guilty or not had no hope. They were fu¢ked for just showing up in court and always got far heavier time for their crime that most criminals recieved.
I wonder is it still the same nowadays or has justice opened her eyes a bit so were all treated equal or at least a bit more fairer

I was told by someone who works in this area that 90% of the work of the Children Court comprises of about 20 families, mostly from the same district. Why not actually address the problem at its root, by targeted social-work and addressing any family issues, instead of hiring a minor company of solicitors and court staff, as well as wasting Garda time, to traipse in and out of a court which obviously isn't proving effective?

It's such a strange mentality. It isn't working, but let's keep doing it, because we've always done it?

Justin Credible Darts

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

You can get slashed for 20 quid. If every person in the country were able to access 200 euro on request, there would be no rough sleeping, or people using food charities. Some people cannot even afford the cost of a homelessness hostel.

No, I dont think everyone in the country can access 200 euro to avoid jail. And jail is such an ineffective waste of time, that many convicted criminals probably wouldn't even want to.



I was told by someone who works in this area that 90% of the work of the Children Court comprises of about 20 families, mostly from the same district. Why not actually address the problem at its root, by targeted social-work and addressing any family issues, instead of hiring a minor company of solicitors and court staff, as well as wasting Garda time, to traipse in and out of a court which obviously isn't proving effective?

It's such a strange mentality. It isn't working, but let's keep doing it, because we've always done it?

you can get sloshed for 20 quid ?


Even if I slummed it like a pauper and bought the chav drink of dutch gold, I would have more chance of getting sick than drunk.


10 pints in my local and you barely have the price of a bag of tayto in 60 quid