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Has Dolores Cahill been debunked?

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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,111 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I haven't enjoyed being made feel stupid in a long time.
    I hear that N. :D I'd reckon on average I'm made to feel stupid in some way on a weekly basis(it used to be daily so I'm improving :D ). And my take? Great. It means I'm about to learn something. Always be wary of the cock sure, the mighty of intellect, who can't countenance feeling stupid. At best they know their speciality and not so much else, at worst they're the thick as bottled pig sh1te people.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    gmisk wrote: »
    By stating what is so wrong with what she said you are agreeing with her....at least be honest

    I can see the logic in the point about vitamin D, the reduction in oxygen levels I don’t agree with Other than I expect it would be uncomfortable to wear and the hydroxi I know nothing about. What you’ve done, which is the norm with your generation, is to make the assumption that because I didn’t cancel her outright that I was in agreement with everything she said and in a few more posts I’ll be a Trump supporter and then Hitler.

    What I can also say is that DC knows a lot more about this subject than me and everyone else in this thread. So if everything she said is so wrong, how can she have worked as a professor in UCD as legitimate academic scientist in school of medicine for so long and with so much experience but now all of a sudden she’s considered a crazy person and needs to be cancelled?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    Deagol wrote: »
    Why does everyone make this particular nonsense so much harder to refute than it needs to be?

    Fact: Surgeons have been wearing masks for at least 100 years
    Fact: They sometimes wear them for +12 hours at a time during complex surgery
    Fact: They do critical, life saving, extremely delicate surgery in them
    Fact: They are trained, highly intelligent, highly educated medical professionals.
    Fact: They don't drop dead, have heart attackes or strokes etc while wearing them.

    Do people seriously think that these people would wear them if they had negative effects???

    Incidentely, I work in the energy sector and have to wear masks a lot more restrictive than any medical mask, sometimes for several hours at a time. Beyond giving my diaphragm a good work-out having to pull air in through them I have never suffered any ill effects from them. In fact, I always feel positively healthy after using them - my whole chest feels like it's had a good workout!

    I agree that masks are fine but clearly you don't know many surgeons. Everyone who knows any surgeons knows they do surgery after long hours, often without sleep, often in the middle of the night, or after parties. Lack of sleep is known to reduce motor skills significantly but they still do it.
    Also telling surgeons and energy workers to wear masks is not the same as telling everyone to wear masks or making them obligatory.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,935 ✭✭✭circadian


    Dolores Cahill, as far as I can tell, has stopped producing journals the last few years. This coincides the beginning of her political career and venture into quackery.

    I do not believe, for one minute, that she believes the "science" she has begun promoting. I see this as nothing more than a cynical use of credentials to push pseudo-science to the fringe parties who believe in conspiracies for personal, political gain.

    Yes. She has been debunked because people have debunked these theories that have been promoted elsewhere. Just because someone hasn't addressed her directly, it doesn't mean her ideas haven't been addressed and debunked already.

    An opportunist. A charlatan.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,377 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    What I can also say is that DC knows a lot more about this subject than me and everyone else in this thread. So if everything she said is so wrong, how can she have worked as a professor in UCD as legitimate academic scientist in school of medicine for so long and with so much experience but now all of a sudden she’s considered a crazy person and needs to be cancelled?

    That's a weak argument. It's essentially a dishonest way of saying she must be right, without coming out and saying it explicitly.

    The more pertinent question is why are her opinions completely at odds with the prevailing opinions held throughout the world and in Ireland? There isn't a single immunologist or specialist in infectious disease in Ireland that has backed up her claims. Is she more qualified or knowledgeable than them?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    I can see the logic in the point about vitamin D, the reduction in oxygen levels I don’t agree with Other than I expect it would be uncomfortable to wear and the hydroxi I know nothing about. What you’ve done, which is the norm with your generation, is to make the assumption that because I didn’t cancel her outright that I was in agreement with everything she said and in a few more posts I’ll be a Trump supporter and then Hitler.

    What I can also say is that DC knows a lot more about this subject than me and everyone else in this thread. So if everything she said is so wrong, how can she have worked as a professor in UCD as legitimate academic scientist in school of medicine for so long and with so much experience but now all of a sudden she’s considered a crazy person and needs to be cancelled?

    We are all wrong about certain things. Just because you are a great physicist doesn't mean you are great at all fields. Universities should have people who have divergent views or who are unusual. That been said, if Cahill was known to be a contrarian about our response to COVID when she was being hired, she would not have been hired. Our universities are quite hive minds and you have to keep your views to yourself to get through it unless you are the usual establishment leftist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    circadian wrote: »
    Dolores Cahill, as far as I can tell, has stopped producing journals the last few years. This coincides the beginning of her political career and venture into quackery.

    I do not believe, for one minute, that she believes the "science" she has begun promoting. I see this as nothing more than a cynical use of credentials to push pseudo-science to the fringe parties who believe in conspiracies for personal, political gain.

    Yes. She has been debunked because people have debunked these theories that have been promoted elsewhere. Just because someone hasn't addressed her directly, it doesn't mean her ideas haven't been addressed and debunked already.

    An opportunist. A charlatan.
    Did you say the same about Leo? Using your job titles to advance your political career isn't cynical or wrong... I dont think she is making much money from become such a hate figure. I think the simplest explanation is that she is sincere.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,204 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Not sure how you can say she has more knowledge than any of us. I'm not in the medicine field but follow much of the research on this, as an interest and because I have family working on the front line.
    BTW one of the biggest health problem arising from getting this virus, has now been found to be blood clotting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,935 ✭✭✭circadian


    We are all wrong about certain things. Just because you are a great physicist doesn't mean you are great at all fields. Universities should have people who have divergent views or who are unusual. That been said, if Cahill was known to be a contrarian about our response to COVID when she was being hired, she would not have been hired. Our universities are quite hive minds and you have to keep your views to yourself to get through it unless you are the usual establishment leftist.

    Are you speaking from experience? Have you been part of a Faculty at a University for a long time?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    Water John wrote: »
    Not sure how you can say she has more knowledge than any of us. I'm not in the medicine field but follow much of the research on this, as an interest and because I have family working on the front line.

    Lol


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,204 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Glad you're amused. I respect those who specialise in research and knowledge on this new virus. The best scientists will openly say that they don't yet know an awful lot about it are learning all the time. Those are the scientists I respect.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    circadian wrote: »
    Are you speaking from experience? Have you been part of a Faculty at a University for a long time?

    Im not the worlds more experienced expert but I am in that environment and there is a lot of self censorship


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 957 ✭✭✭80j2lc5y7u6qs9


    Deagol wrote: »
    Why does everyone make this particular nonsense so much harder to refute than it needs to be?

    Fact: Surgeons have been wearing masks for at least 100 years
    My dentist always wore one, even pre covid, and never seemed short of breath. In fact she even hums a song while drilling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭ronivek


    What I can also say is that DC knows a lot more about this subject than me and everyone else in this thread. So if everything she said is so wrong, how can she have worked as a professor in UCD as legitimate academic scientist in school of medicine for so long and with so much experience but now all of a sudden she’s considered a crazy person and needs to be cancelled?

    First of all your output as a 'legitimate academic' is research in the form of papers. There is a certain standard these papers are held to; and they go through various forms of review before they're even published. They're also in the vast majority of cases authored by several academics; not just a single academic.

    In other words; Dolores Cahill's academic output has to be viewed in the context of a team of professional researchers who hold each other accountable w.r.t. their areas of research and expertise.

    Just because someone's peer reviewed and collaborative work output is of a reasonable quality (and I have no idea to what extent this is true for Dolores Cahill) does not automatically mean that all their personally held opinions are of equally reasonable quality or merit.

    And all of that is without even going into the details of whether Dolores Cahill's very specific areas of expertise in Biochemistry and Medical Research are in any way relevant to the Covid-19 virus and its many socio-economic and public health aspects.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,297 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    I can see the logic in the point about vitamin D, the reduction in oxygen levels I don’t agree with Other than I expect it would be uncomfortable to wear and the hydroxi I know nothing about. What you’ve done, which is the norm with your generation, is to make the assumption that because I didn’t cancel her outright that I was in agreement with everything she said and in a few more posts I’ll be a Trump supporter and then Hitler.

    What I can also say is that DC knows a lot more about this subject than me and everyone else in this thread. So if everything she said is so wrong, how can she have worked as a professor in UCD as legitimate academic scientist in school of medicine for so long and with so much experience but now all of a sudden she’s considered a crazy person and needs to be cancelled?
    I think you need to relax....the Trump and Hitler line is bizarre.
    I am not cancelling her outright I was simply pointing out that there is nothing substantial, peer reviewer etc, to really backup any of the positions especially with regards mask wearing and hydroxi.

    Also what generation would that be?
    What age do you think I am exactly?...
    Is this the part where I am supposed to say ok boomer?


  • Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭mc25


    I’ve seen comments that she had been debunked but not the actual debunking. There is an article here https://healthfeedback.org/computing-forever-interview-with-dolores-cahill-contains-numerous-inaccuracies-about-covid-19-and-vaccines/ which refers to “inaccuracies” but doesn’t debunk what she is saying.

    Shes obviously qualified and has been working in UCD as a professor for years without an issue or questions over her professional credibility.

    It’s concerning that someone goes against the received message and is suddenly considered a conspiracy theorist

    She has been debunked, but not in the way you're thinking: https://academic.oup.com/rheumatology/article/56/10/1827/4080369


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno




  • Registered Users Posts: 21,204 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    In the trials for a vaccine, one half get a placebo and the other gets the vaccine. Both are then followed for some time whilst they have the opportunity to come into contact with Covid carriers. That's the standard process normally used.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    Arghus wrote: »
    That's a weak argument. It's essentially a dishonest way of saying she must be right, without coming out and saying it explicitly.

    The more pertinent question is why are her opinions completely at odds with the prevailing opinions held throughout the world and in Ireland? There isn't a single immunologist or specialist in infectious disease in Ireland that has backed up her claims. Is she more qualified or knowledgeable than them?

    But have they explicitly contradicted her claims?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    Water John wrote: »
    Not sure how you can say she has more knowledge than any of us. I'm not in the medicine field but follow much of the research on this, as an interest and because I have family working on the front line.
    BTW one of the biggest health problem arising from getting this virus, has now been found to be blood clotting.

    Respectfully, DC is a professor in UCD. You’re just some bloke off the internet whose sister works in the hospital.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,377 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    But have they explicitly contradicted her claims?

    Every single local expert in the field has argued from positions totally at odds with her's.They don't have to make reference to her specifically, it's completely self evident that they wouldn't agree with any of her claims.

    You are being deeply disingenuous to claim ignorance of this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,377 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Respectfully, DC is a professor in UCD. You’re just some bloke off the internet whose sister works in the hospital.

    So is your argument is that because she's a Professor in UCD that she has to be right in what she says?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,339 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    The nutjob Dolores - I'm making wild speculations but show me proof what I'm saying is false, how about showing proof your wild claims actually work in the first place

    Hydroxy cures all your ails - bit like the snake oil travelling salesmen from years ago
    Comparison to SARS1 which was very deadly and killed people before they had a chance to spread it but in Dolores mind because it only killed 800 people SARS2 is overblown
    Puts her professional life on the line for it - Niall Boylan show
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqOglTMlDHc


    Everyone that has ever had a cold is immune from it - does anyone know anyone that has never had a cold
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHJ__MNEl00

    Hour long, so the highlights:
    once you've caught it you're immune for life - could be true but no proof of this yet, nobody has a lived a lifetime after catching it.
    vitamin D, C and Zinc protects you from the virus
    the virus has been cleared in the US (end of April), nothing to worry about anymore - oops
    vitamin D, C and Zinc protects you from the virus
    if you caught the original SARS (and lived) you have immunity to this new virus and the tests are detecting the original SARS :confused:
    vitamin D, C and Zinc protects you from the virus
    Hydroxy is an amazing miracle drug, give everyone the pill twice and the virus is eradicated, no need for a vaccine - nope it isn't :D
    vitamin D, C and Zinc protects you from the virus
    lockdown does nothing to protect anyone
    vitamin D, C and Zinc protects you from the virus
    social distancing does nothing to protect anyone
    vitamin D, C and Zinc protects you from the virus
    masks do not protect you
    vitamin D, C and Zinc protects you from the virus
    masks reduce your oxygen intake :eek:
    vitamin D, C and Zinc protects you from the virus
    Lots of jibes about RTE and other media not interested in giving her a voice - maybe something to do with her crackpot political party and crackpot ideas - stick with youtube love
    Forced vaccines - she's an anti vaxxer
    Lots of other mumbo jumbo

    (as an aside she has never used a webcam before...)

    Said before on the main covid thread - having a diploma or letters before or after your name doesn't mean you are not in la la land

    This woman is actually dangerous to anyone that listens to her and believes enything she says


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 236 ✭✭Irishman80


    There is articles which suggests that N95 respirators can reduce the amount oxygen by up to 20%. Stanford are developing a device to counter this.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-design-helps-n95-mask-wearers-breathe-easier/

    Vitamin D might not be a magic bullet - Yet. But many studies coming out highlight benefits.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/vitamin-d-helps-the-body-fight-coronavirus-major-israeli-study-claims/


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,339 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Irishman80 wrote: »
    There is articles which suggests that N95 respirators can reduce the amount oxygen by up to 20%. Stanford are developing a device to counter this.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-design-helps-n95-mask-wearers-breathe-easier/

    Vitamin D might not be a magic bullet - Yet. But many studies coming out highlight benefits.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/vitamin-d-helps-the-body-fight-coronavirus-major-israeli-study-claims/

    Normal people are not wearing N95 masks for hours on end

    As for Vitamin D - plenty of places have lots of sunshine, hasn't made a damn bit of difference. Even if it makes a difference it's an insubstantial difference
    10-20 minutes in the sun a couple of times a week is enough for your Vitamin D - it's not that hard to get

    As for stuff coming out of Israel - they are showing themselves up as the masters of media manipulation


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,935 ✭✭✭circadian


    Im not the worlds more experienced expert but I am in that environment and there is a lot of self censorship

    I also work in that environment and can categorically say that there is no self censorship, nor is there pressure to do so.

    If you hold an alternative or contrarian idea then it is up to you to back that up with research and facts to be peer reviewed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,935 ✭✭✭circadian


    Also, she doesn't need to be debunked. She hasn't actually provided any substantial evidence, research or proof of her musings about masks, treatments and lifelong immunity after having the virus.


    Nothing. Riding on her credentials and providing exactly zero substance to back these claims up.

    It's a play to get those who are anti 5G,anti EU and other fringe movements to support her politically.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,111 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    fritzelly wrote: »
    10-20 minutes in the sun a couple of times a week is enough for your Vitamin D - it's not that hard to get
    Actually that part isn't quite true. Vitamin D deficiency is apparently quite common in some western societies, more so for anyone with dark skin in higher latitudes. To get it from the sun alone you would need to expose a goodly part of your upper body to sunlight for around half an hour on a near daily basis(and not shower afterwards as it's metabolised at the skin level). Now foodstuffs can give you your hit of the stuff, but again there are enough people not including foods with D in their diets.

    Though this appears to have little impact on covid19 as countries with high solar radiation where people are much less likely to have a deficiency are being hit just as badly as those places that aren't. QV Australia.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    Ok so no proof that face masks prevent the transmission of Covid and no evidence that vitamin D is effective treating Covid but may improve your immune system to fight and infection.

    Face masks = good
    Vitamin d + bad

    This is what I’m hearing.

    Who said Vitamin D was bad?

    A wonderful vitamin.

    Not a cure/ prevention for Covid, but part of a healthy banalnced diet for sure.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 36,237 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Onesea wrote: »
    Has she been debunked?

    She claimed the virus was “cleared” from the US at the end of April. Does anyone need to “debunk” that?


This discussion has been closed.
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