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Has Dolores Cahill been debunked?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,561 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Sorry but why are you asking me to prove a negative? I didn't think that was how critical thinking worked?

    What negative have I asked you to prove?
    Elucidate it please?

    I have asked you to provide the scientific research that support Prof. Cahill's claims?
    What other than a feeling? Currently underpins her claims?

    Critical thinking, as you have illustrated earlier by not comprehending why her claims are currently baseless.
    Is clearly beyond your ken.

    You are being asked for the evidence to support her claims.
    You now say that's being asked to prove a negative?
    Which means what, for her claims?

    You'd be far better peddling your line of BS over on the Conspiracy Forum tbh.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    gmisk wrote: »
    I don't think there is proof for anything you listed....bar possibly vitamin d could help.
    Face masks do not reduce oxygen levels.
    Hydroxi has not been proven as an effective treatment in fact it seems to be the opposite for a lot of people.

    Do face masks prevent the spread of Covid?


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,169 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    We know masks reduce the spread of droplets. Now there is no complete proof that Covid doesn't also float about in aerosol form.
    Masks don't stop you getting Covid but may help prevent you transmitting it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,240 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Do face masks prevent the spread of Covid?
    So your admitting they don't reduce oxygen levels so move onto something else?
    They can definitely help especially with other measures, look at other countries that have introduced them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,561 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Do face masks prevent the spread of Covid?

    Yes.
    Here's a few studies on that.
    You know actual, peer reviewed and evidence based published work?

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2468042720300117

    Still waiting on something of a similar standard in support of Prof C.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    Water John wrote: »
    We know masks reduce the spread of droplets. Now there is no complete proof that Covid doesn't also float about in aerosol form.
    Masks don't stop you getting Covid but may help prevent you transmitting it.

    Ok so no proof that face masks prevent the transmission of Covid and no evidence that vitamin D is effective treating Covid but may improve your immune system to fight and infection.

    Face masks = good
    Vitamin d + bad

    This is what I’m hearing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    gmisk wrote: »
    So your admitting they don't reduce oxygen levels so move onto something else?
    They can definitely help especially with other measures, look at other countries that have introduced them.

    Where did I say that face masks reduce oxygen levels?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    banie01 wrote: »
    Yes.
    Here's a few studies on that.
    You know actual, peer reviewed and evidence based published work?

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2468042720300117

    Still waiting on something of a similar standard in support of Prof C.

    Why are you asking me to prove a negative?


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,561 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Why are you asking me to prove a negative?

    Elucidate on that negative, you are so close to actually getting the point it may well take your eye out if you aren't careful.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,169 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Take a walk every day and you'll get enough Vit D and I've no problem taking it in a pill. But don't equate this with preventing Covid.

    The latest science seems to indicate that the absence of the receptor TLR7 may be an issue, (Dutch study). All the Vit D in the world won't solve that. Beta Interferon may be a medication that will help, (Southhampton trial).

    But I don't think you're interested in an honest discussion as to what might work and the science behind it, just defending notions put forward by Cahill.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,561 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Water John wrote: »
    But I don't think you're interested in an honest discussion as to what might work and the science behind it, just defending notions put forward by Cahill.

    But sure he's only asking questions.
    Not being deliberately obtuse, contrarian or anything.
    It's not peddling bullshít, it's curiousity ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,240 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Where did I say that face masks reduce oxygen levels?
    Errrr you said the below a page back...


    I'm just trying to understand what she said that was so off the wall? Of the bits I listed to I heard (in summary)
    That vitamin D boosts the immune and is effective in fighting covid
    Face masks reduce oxygen levels
    Hydroxi could be an effective treatment for covid

    What is so wrong about what she has said?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,582 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    Getting fired from every committee you are on and every person you worked with saying you are mental is a pretty good debunking.

    Nothing she claims is fact or evidence based.

    No its not. You can get knocked off a committee for any number of non scientific reasons. Look at how Tim Hunts reputation and scientific honours were destroyed for lies conducted by a journalist. I dont agree with her claims about mask but the way people are trying to cancel her is messed up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,582 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    gmisk wrote: »
    I don't think there is proof for anything you listed....bar possibly vitamin d could help.
    Face masks do not reduce oxygen levels.
    Hydroxi has not been proven as an effective treatment in fact it seems to be the opposite for a lot of people.

    Obviously a face mask is going to reduce oxygen intake. The question is how much. I don't think its any real risk for a healthy person but I certainly wouldn't run in them or wear until they are saturated in sweat and can't work.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    banie01 wrote: »
    Elucidate on that negative, you are so close to actually getting the point it may well take your eye out if you aren't careful.

    You can keep trying to make yourself sound intelligent but still don’t understand why a man of science would ask someone to prove a negative.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    gmisk wrote: »
    Errrr you said the below a page back...


    I'm just trying to understand what she said that was so off the wall? Of the bits I listed to I heard (in summary)
    That vitamin D boosts the immune and is effective in fighting covid
    Face masks reduce oxygen levels
    Hydroxi could be an effective treatment for covid

    What is so wrong about what she has said?

    Read it again


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,240 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Obviously a face mask is going to reduce oxygen intake. The question is how much. I don't think its any real risk for a healthy person but I certainly wouldn't run in them or wear until they are saturated in sweat and can't work.
    Facemasks do not limit oxygen intake. There are plenty of studies from reputable sources have a quick Google.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,169 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Obviously a face mask is going to reduce oxygen intake. The question is how much. I don't think its any real risk for a healthy person but I certainly wouldn't run in them or wear until they are saturated in sweat and can't work.

    I referred to two trials already that prove oxygen levels aren't decreased.
    Why do you say, 'obviously'. Just because you can see it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,240 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Read it again
    By stating what is so wrong with what she said you are agreeing with her....at least be honest


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,169 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    gmisk wrote: »
    By stating what is so wrong with what she said you are agreeing with her....at least be honest

    It has the equivalence of Trump saying; 'many people say'.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,582 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    gmisk wrote: »
    Facemasks do not limit oxygen intake. There are plenty of studies from reputable sources have a quick Google.

    What you are trying to say is common face masks do not have a meaning impact on the oxygen saturation of a health person. YOU ARE WELCOME

    BTW a quick Google is not very reliable to certain truth.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,561 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    You can keep trying to make yourself sound intelligent but still don’t understand why a man of science would ask someone to prove a negative.

    I'm not a man of science, studies, statistics in particular and qualitative/quantitive improvement and a bit of success in the fields I've worked in, yes.
    A broad range of legal, regulatory and compliance experience too.
    And for my sins, a return to Uni to study Law currently.
    But I don't have a science background at 3rd level bar statistics

    You keep referring to you having being asked to prove a negative.
    I have asked you twice to elucidate on that and you have deflected.
    So for a 3rd time, what negative have you been asked by me to substantiate?


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,240 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    What you are trying to say is common face masks do not have a meaning impact on the oxygen saturation of a health person. YOU ARE WELCOME

    BTW a quick Google is not very reliable to certain truth.
    You mean healthy person?
    And meaningful rather than meaning?
    YOU ARE WELCOME...

    A quick Google can find some excellent sources and reputable studies was my point.
    "Not very reliable to certain truth" Huh?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,703 ✭✭✭Deagol


    gmisk wrote: »
    Facemasks do not limit oxygen intake. There are plenty of studies from reputable sources have a quick Google.

    Why does everyone make this particular nonsense so much harder to refute than it needs to be?

    Fact: Surgeons have been wearing masks for at least 100 years
    Fact: They sometimes wear them for +12 hours at a time during complex surgery
    Fact: They do critical, life saving, extremely delicate surgery in them
    Fact: They are trained, highly intelligent, highly educated medical professionals.
    Fact: They don't drop dead, have heart attackes or strokes etc while wearing them.

    Do people seriously think that these people would wear them if they had negative effects???

    Incidentely, I work in the energy sector and have to wear masks a lot more restrictive than any medical mask, sometimes for several hours at a time. Beyond giving my diaphragm a good work-out having to pull air in through them I have never suffered any ill effects from them. In fact, I always feel positively healthy after using them - my whole chest feels like it's had a good workout!


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,576 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Was she ever bunked in the first place?


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,711 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Air comprises mainly oxygen and nitrogen. The mix does not change when going through a facemask!


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,240 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Beasty wrote: »
    Air comprises mainly oxygen and nitrogen. The mix does not change when going through a facemask!
    But haven't you heard... they want to throw God's wonderful breathing system out!
    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-53174415/they-want-to-throw-god-s-wonderful-breathing-system-out


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,104 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Onesea wrote: »
    Drivel.

    A strong imune system will keep you fit and healthy.
    Here's a very good example of something that appears like a fact and self evidently so, but actually isn't. This is remarkably common in the human condition throughout history.

    EG what kills a lot of covid patients and is common in a few viral infections is a cytokine storm. This is where your immune system actually kills you and the stronger the immune system the more quickly it will kill you. If I nuked your marrow with radiation you'd be open to all sorts of nasties, but a cytokine storm wouldn't be one of them(Auto immune disorders are another, again where the stronger your immune system the worse the disorder).

    Take the 1918 flu pandemic. Unlike Covid19 it killed way more people in the prime of life than it did the very old and very young. There were remote settlements where it ran through and the majority that were left were grandkids and grandparents. What did they have in common? Weaker immune systems.

    But I suspect your shutters are already down. This is the problem with conspiracy/unorthodox theories. They are very attractive in a confusing world and especially in any sort of emergency where the usual experts are bumbling about, or appear to be. Along comes someone who is so much surer, who runs appeals to authority(or on facebook an appeal to "I run the neighbourhood committee you know") and goes against the stream that appear to be floundering and appeals to faith among the subject ignorant/worried/deep need for normality. They find fertile ground.

    And that's fine really. The problem is that such notions have a built in self protection reflex, just like religions and any questions start to look like unbelievers speaking heresy. And the shutters come down. I'll say this a pretty good sign a theory is up to some sort of testing is that those putting it forward are all too eager to have it tested.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I haven't enjoyed being made feel stupid in a long time.

    Didn't understand all of it but colour me educated


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,373 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    You can keep trying to make yourself sound intelligent but still don’t understand why a man of science would ask someone to prove a negative.

    You're trying to deliberately obfuscate here to avoid answering a question.

    You can prove a negative.

    Dolores Cahill is the one making extraordinary claims. The burden of proof is on her to provide evidence. She hasn't provided that proof. Her claims have been debunked and quite a few of them are so basically factually wrong that anyone who looks at those claims with objectivity can see that straightaway. This is the same link that has already been supplied from earlier in this thread, which does an thorough job of dismissing a raft of what she has had to say. You should read it, it contains ample evidence of what you are supposedly looking for by starting this thread.


    http://collegetribune.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Claims-made-by-Prof-Cahill.pdf


    You haven't a leg to stand on in this debate. And it's pretty obvious.


This discussion has been closed.
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