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Opinions on chipping and putting

  • 25-07-2020 4:52pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 381 ✭✭ Danny dyers double


    Very interested on lads views on this one.
    As i said in a previous thread iv a very poor short game.
    Was playing this morning and hitting the ball well but struggled to post a decent score because poor chipping mainly. One of my playing partners suggested a short game lesson. Now the point of this thread is that i know how to chip and putt, probably the 2 most simple techniques in golf.

    So my question is, do you think chipping and putting is all about nerve on the day and a 100 lessons won't really improve a bad chipper. Personally I can go to a practice green and chip balls well for an hour or so and then blade and duff every one of them on the course.
    It's a killer but iv excepted I'm not a great chipper and a poor to average putter at best.
    Is there anyone here that would strongly argue that its just the same as a full swing, as in a lesson from a pro and a good lot of practice will improve this side of your game.

    Very interested to hear opinions on this one.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭ Quahog217


    Very interested on lads views on this one.
    As i said in a previous thread iv a very poor short game.
    Was playing this morning and hitting the ball well but struggled to post a decent score because poor chipping mainly. One of my playing partners suggested a short game lesson. Now the point of this thread is that i know how to chip and putt, probably the 2 most simple techniques in golf.

    So my question is, do you think chipping and putting is all about nerve on the day and a 100 lessons won't really improve a bad chipper. Personally I can go to a practice green and chip balls well for an hour or so and then blade and duff every one of them on the course.
    It's a killer but iv excepted I'm not a great chipper and a poor to average putter at best.
    Is there anyone here that would strongly argue that its just the same as a full swing, as in a lesson from a pro and a good lot of practice will improve this side of your game.

    Very interested to hear opinions on this one.

    It's different for everyone I think. I have had the chipping yips for about 5 years until this year in have finally came out the other side. Playing off 5 handicap all the while was not fun and quiet a challenge.
    Similar to you I could always chip well in practice. I got lessons with several good coaches, all of whom got me chipping perfect but the affliction never left when in comps or chipping in front of anyone!
    I fixed my chipping this year by practising less but practising better. So i would play 9 holes and hit one practice chip on every hole. I would pick 3 easy, 3 medium and 3 hard. I would then simply measure each shot in feet and get the average over the holes. It works really well becasue you only get one attempt on each hole and you have to use that score even its 30 feet. It adds pressure to practice instead of aimlessly chipping 100 balls from the same lie and area over and over. I would try to do this 2/3 times a week and track your stats and see how it goes.
    Over 9 holes I now average around 5 feet. I do occasionally do small amounts of block practice but very little to be honest. For me chipping is very much a mental challenge. Hope this helps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭ dan_ep82


    When I was struggling a bit with nervy chips when I came back I played from the back of the chipping green to the front towards the cars to simulate the pressure. Then hit back, then go again. Gave me the confidence to trust the technique.

    At the same time, if your chipping technique is poor it probably leaves little room for error, A better technique will be easier to pull off more of the time under pressure.


  • Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭ ShivasIrons


    When you can move the ball with your mind, golf will then become a mind game, until then it's a physical move that moves the ball.


    Poor short game and putts come from technical errors. So yes, if your short game is bad a lesson will improve it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,331 mike12


    https://youtu.be/W9QI5--ZGWI

    Was In the same boat myself and u can chip really well with poor technique but it won't hold up under pressure.

    Ball back hands forward can give super results but it's not a great technique for anyone is nervy.

    I had loads of short game lessons and until the last guy really explained the bounce and how to use it properly it was a leap forward.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    Learning how to use the bounce makes all short game easier, your margin for error is much higher.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭ BraveDonut


    so, what's better? Higher or lower bounce?
    What changes based on the number?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    BraveDonut wrote: »
    so, what's better? Higher or lower bounce?
    What changes based on the number?

    the bounce is the size of the angle at the bottom of the club.
    Less bounce means the leading edge is closer to the ground, more bounce means its further away.

    More bounce is better for bunkers or soft ground as it stops the leading edge digging in and laying a sod over the ball.
    Less bounce is better for harder lies as it prevents the leading edge skipping into the ball and it screaming away 1foot off the ground.

    But either way, learning to use the bounce means a more level angle of attack and less reliance on timing the leading edge.
    When you do it properly you barely mark the grass (you can chip from a green) but more importantly you can hit an inch behind the ball and still get a good result.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    Wedge_bounce_header_1200-2-1.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭ Deporhostia


    GreeBo wrote: »
    the bounce is the size of the angle at the bottom of the club.
    Less bounce means the leading edge is closer to the ground, more bounce means its further away.

    More bounce is better for bunkers or soft ground as it stops the leading edge digging in and laying a sod over the ball.
    Less bounce is better for harder lies as it prevents the leading edge skipping into the ball and it screaming away 1foot off the ground.

    But either way, learning to use the bounce means a more level angle of attack and less reliance on timing the leading edge.
    When you do it properly you barely mark the grass (you can chip from a green) but more importantly you can hit an inch behind the ball and still get a good result.
    Very useful that about bounce, thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,625 ✭✭✭ youcancallmeal


    I chip with my feet almost fully facing the hole, so my left arm(I'm right handed) is across my chest and I swing back in a consistent arc every time. I find it very effective, I almost always deliver the club head exactly where I want so I just have to adjust how hard I hit. It does look a bit weird though, earlier this year I tried changing to a more traditional chipping stance, this resulted in much more thinning or duffing chips. I'm back to my more trusted chipping method now and even started using it for shots from 40-70 yards with a 52 degree. It's similar to no. 1 here except my feet are even more than 45 degrees towards the hole.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    Clay Ballard has some good videos on it (I find him pretty good on most things)
    He advocates a slightly open stance and feet very close together, both of which I follow.

    I'll try to find the video I'm referring to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26 keanecm


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Learning how to use the bounce makes all short game easier, your margin for error is much higher.

    This may be a stupid question but should your margin for error not reduce if things are getting easier?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo




    Explains when you want to use which technique


    More for short pitching.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    keanecm wrote: »
    This may be a stupid question but should your margin for error not reduce if things are getting easier?

    Sorry, I mean the margin for missing your spot is bigger while still getting a good result; you don't have to be as accurate.

    Bounce will let the club glide into the ball even if you hit the ground behind the ball (rather than skip into it or chunk behind it)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭ blue note


    I wouldn't agree that chipping technique is at all straightforward! I see far too many mi**** chips to think that.

    What I struggle with a lot is putting from off a green. I'll chip rather than putt unless I only have a small amount of fringe to deal with. Whereas many 30 handicappers and pros will tell you to putt any time you can. My problem is distance control when I do. I can end up barely making it onto a green or barely keeping it on. Whereas chipping I'll more than likely leave myself with a makeable putt at least.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    blue note wrote: »
    I wouldn't agree that chipping technique is at all straightforward! I see far too many mi**** chips to think that.

    What I struggle with a lot is putting from off a green. I'll chip rather than putt unless I only have a small amount of fringe to deal with. Whereas many 30 handicappers and pros will tell you to putt any time you can. My problem is distance control when I do. I can end up barely making it onto a green or barely keeping it on. Whereas chipping I'll more than likely leave myself with a makeable putt at least.

    A (somewhat!) useful rule of thumb is to add whatever distance of fringe you have to cross onto the end of you putt.
    So if you have a 20ft putt including 5ft of fringe, aim for a 25ft putt.

    Very long putts are arguably harder than chips, but thats because you need a longer putting stroke than is really possible (the first video above describe it well)
    A usual, shorter putting stroke with a 7i will lead to much better results in my experience.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭ blue note


    GreeBo wrote: »
    A (somewhat!) useful rule of thumb is to add whatever distance of fringe you have to cross onto the end of you putt.
    So if you have a 20ft putt including 5ft of fringe, aim for a 25ft putt.

    Very long putts are arguably harder than chips, but thats because you need a longer putting stroke than is really possible (the first video above describe it well)
    A usual, shorter putting stroke with a 7i will lead to much better results in my experience.

    You've to factor in putting up to elevated greens too, and then you can also need to factor in a big swing at the start of the putt if you're not going straight up it. It probably is something I should work on when I get time, since every level of golfer seems to find putting the better option, but I don't know when I'll get that time.

    I generally find running an 8 iron to just be more predictable. I've been caught off course aiming to bounce it once on the slope to take speed out of it and missing or catching a very heavy bounce on the slope. But overall, I get more consistent results.

    What I can never really understand is people with fairly straightforward chips trying to put huge spin on them to fire them at the hole and stop them dead. In a way it looks great when it comes off, but in a way it looks stupid, because it's such an unnecessary shot. And the increase in chances of a duff / blade is huge.

    I also see the odd time people putting the ball up in the air when there's nothing they need to clear. This tends just to be new golfers who don't know better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,625 ✭✭✭ youcancallmeal


    blue note wrote: »
    I also see the odd time people putting the ball up in the air when there's nothing they need to clear. This tends just to be new golfers who don't know better.

    I would agree with you but I still I use my 58 wedge for all my chipping because I know my distances almost as well I know my putter. I find if I take out my 8 iron for a chip and run I can't judge the distance because I do it so rarely. I know people say treat it like a putt but I still feel more confident with my go to wedge. I guess it's a matter of practice


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    blue note wrote: »
    What I can never really understand is people with fairly straightforward chips trying to put huge spin on them to fire them at the hole and stop them dead. In a way it looks great when it comes off, but in a way it looks stupid, because it's such an unnecessary shot. And the increase in chances of a duff / blade is huge.

    If you are using the bounce correctly then the chances of duff/blade actually aren't that high...

    It's the fellas flicking their wrists to flick it up in the air that are asking for trouble, but thats more about poor technique than shot choice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭ blue note


    GreeBo wrote: »
    If you are using the bounce correctly then the chances of duff/blade actually aren't that high...

    It's the fellas flicking their wrists to flick it up in the air that are asking for trouble, but thats more about poor technique than shot choice.

    I'm judging on what I see, not the theory of it. Comparing people running it to people trying to stop it quickly, I see far more terrible shots with people trying to stop it quickly. Fair enough if you've got the technique down perfectly, but too many of the people I'm looking at do not.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    blue note wrote: »
    I'm judging on what I see, not the theory of it. Comparing people running it to people trying to stop it quickly, I see far more terrible shots with people trying to stop it quickly. Fair enough if you've got the technique down perfectly, but too many of the people I'm looking at do not.

    Yeah agreed, I'm just saying that the wrong technique is the wrong technique either way...even using a 7i with "flicky wrists" has the potential to end very badly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭ ChippingSodbury


    blue note wrote: »
    I wouldn't agree that chipping technique is at all straightforward! I see far too many mi**** chips to think that.

    What I struggle with a lot is putting from off a green. I'll chip rather than putt unless I only have a small amount of fringe to deal with. Whereas many 30 handicappers and pros will tell you to putt any time you can. My problem is distance control when I do. I can end up barely making it onto a green or barely keeping it on. Whereas chipping I'll more than likely leave myself with a makeable putt at least.

    A bad putt is almost always better than a bad chip. That's within reason though as very long putts are difficult as mentioned by GreeBo and also ground conditions (I'm a links player).

    The best way to improve your distance control is dead obvious: practice putting from off the green around the putting green. I almost never see anyone doing this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭ blue note


    A bad putt is almost always better than a bad chip. That's within reason though as very long putts are difficult as mentioned by GreeBo and also ground conditions (I'm a links player).

    The best way to improve your distance control is dead obvious: practice putting from off the green around the putting green. I almost never see anyone doing this.

    That's what I hear but not what I find for myself. As I say, when I putt from off the green I am terrible for misjudging how hard to hit it. The result of this can be barely making it onto a green and leaving myself 20 feet short of the pin, misjudging the effect of the slope and ending up going 45 degrees in the wrong direction, overhitting it massively and leaving myself 20 feet back. Whereas chipping, I'll always hope to be within 6 feet, a bad one will more than likely leave me within 10.

    In fairness to the people who say "you're always better off putting it", it's true for most people. And I used to do this, but I gave up because I found I was getting better results chipping.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    blue note wrote: »
    That's what I hear but not what I find for myself. As I say, when I putt from off the green I am terrible for misjudging how hard to hit it. The result of this can be barely making it onto a green and leaving myself 20 feet short of the pin, misjudging the effect of the slope and ending up going 45 degrees in the wrong direction, overhitting it massively and leaving myself 20 feet back. Whereas chipping, I'll always hope to be within 6 feet, a bad one will more than likely leave me within 10.

    In fairness to the people who say "you're always better off putting it", it's true for most people. And I used to do this, but I gave up because I found I was getting better results chipping.

    How far off the green are we talking here?
    If you are barely making the green then you are probably putting from too far off.
    Unless it's links or crispy summer, I'm not putting from more than 5 feet off the green.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭ blue note


    GreeBo wrote: »
    How far off the green are we talking here?
    If you are barely making the green then you are probably putting from too far off.
    Unless it's links or crispy summer, I'm not putting from more than 5 feet off the green.

    I'd say if I'm within 3 feet I'm putting unless there's a big slope in front of me. Outside of that I'll most likely chip, but we are talking links golf here!


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