Blacklisted Phone Victim

Demios

Hi everyone,

I recently purchased a phone from a third party for my significant other that was sealed and stated as sim free. The phone worked away fine for her for the last two weeks when suddenly all network functionality stopped.

Doing some research online resulted in me establishing that the phone was subsequently blacklisted by Eir and the original owner/person who sold it to me has reported it lost/stolen in a scam.

Long story short I contacted the website the sale was agreed on and am waiting on a callback from my local fraud division about sourcing the owner and having the Garda dealing with him. Cant get anywhere with Eir, understandably as I am not the customer attached to the phone directly, but I was hoping anyone on here may have advice on how to proceed with this in terms of hopefully getting my money back in some way (unlikely at this point) or somehow making the phone viable again (happy to enter an agreement with Eir be it a fee or joining their network).

Thanks.

Dempo1

Demios wrote: »

Hi everyone,

I recently purchased a phone from a third party for my significant other that was sealed and stated as sim free. The phone worked away fine for her for the last two weeks when suddenly all network functionality stopped.

Doing some research online resulted in me establishing that the phone was subsequently blacklisted by Eir and the original owner/person who sold it to me has reported it lost/stolen in a scam.

Long story short I contacted the website the sale was agreed on and am waiting on a callback from my local fraud division about sourcing the owner and having the Garda dealing with him. Cant get anywhere with Eir, understandably as I am not the customer attached to the phone directly, but I was hoping anyone on here may have advice on how to proceed with this in terms of hopefully getting my money back in some way (unlikely at this point) or somehow making the phone viable again (happy to enter an agreement with Eir be it a fee or joining their network).

Thanks.

I'm not sure what the Gardai will do for you.

Blacklisting is done for a number of reasons, stolen, lost, Insurance replacement or non payment of a bill. ( its a network request/instruction)

The only entity that can request lifting of a blacklisting is the network and they will not do so to facilitate you signing up on a contract.

Added to the difficulty is the phone is registered to someone else and the dreaded GDPR kicks in.

To be blunt, the phone is essentially useless and no sugar coating will change this fact. At best you might have some recourse from the website you purchased it from but if its done deal or similar, not worth the effort I'm afraid.

Demios

Dempo1 wrote: »

I'm not sure what the Gardai will do for you.

Blacklisting is done for a number of reasons, stolen, lost, Insurance replacement or non payment of a bill. ( its a network request/instruction)

The only entity that can request lifting of a blacklisting is the network and they will not do so to facilitate you signing up on a contract.

Added to the difficulty is the phone is registered to someone else and the dreaded GDPR kicks in.

To be blunt, the phone is essentially useless and no sugar coating will change this fact. At best you might have some recourse from the website you purchased it from but if its done deal or similar, not worth the effort I'm afraid.

I hear you

It's crazy that this seems to be commonplace yet the network's seems to be uninterested in rooting out these people who are clearly scamming their insurance/replacement policy.

I've read that the phone should be viable outside the Irish networks but i don't think I'd like to take on the risk of selling it to someone only for them to run into potential issues also.

'Caveat emptor' springs to mind.

But even with the loss of the phone, I'm going to stick with it in terms of having the Garda involved. I reckon with the details ive sourced and what the website said they'd be willing to hand over to the Garda in terms of identification of the seller I'll stick with it. CCTV where I sold is an option too. (Met in a public place and the guy returned to his family car). I'll end up like Columbo at this rate 🙈

Dempo1

Demios wrote: »

I hear you

It's crazy that this seems to be commonplace yet the network's seems to be uninterested in rooting out these people who are clearly scamming their insurance/replacement policy.

I've read that the phone should be viable outside the Irish networks but i don't think I'd like to take on the risk of selling it to someone only for them to run into potential issues also.

'Caveat emptor' springs to mind.

But even with the loss of the phone, I'm going to stick with it in terms of having the Garda involved. I reckon with the details ive sourced and what the website said they'd be willing to hand over to the Garda in terms of identification of the seller I'll stick with it. CCTV where I sold is an option too. (Met in a public place and the guy returned to his family car). I'll end up like Columbo at this rate 🙈

It's not that networks are not interested, they are restricted from discussing this device, it's history etc because of GDPR, I suspect the device was blacklisted because of billing issues. Sadly the Gardai will see this a civil matter. I wouldn't waste to much time on it to be honest, I've dealt with these type of issues from a network perspective for a long time, the fact the device worked for a few days satisifys my belief a billing issue, it wouldn't have worked from the outset if it was reported stolen or an insurance replacement. Makes it all the more outrageous, selling the device knowing it would likely be blacklisted.

Bikerman2019

A common scam is getting an upgrade and then not paying the bill. This leaves a brand new sealed phone which is blacklisted.


The websites / networks / shops will be prosecuted by the data protection office if they give you any info. However, if the gardai make an official data request, the flood gates open.


If they do this and it turns out the seller is the person who stopped paying, that is fraud, prosecution. The issue is getting a guard to take an interest in this. They have such a work load, it will be a low priority.


If you bought it off donedeal, adverts, gumtree or ebay, they will be prosecuted if they release any info about the seller. It MUST be an official request by the gardai. Used to be called a section 8 request, but it is now a different description. Once the request is officially made, full release of data will happen.


Good luck.

silver2020

Gardai are more interested in this now than before. It's not a civil matter as a fraud was possibly committed. https://www.garda.ie/en/Crime/Cyber-crime/I-ve-been-caught-out-by-an-online-scam-What-should-I-do-.html

A civil matter is if it stopped working and you were in contact with the seller and an argument of fixing it ensued. If the seller sold it to you and was deceptive in their description / fraudulently sold it, then its a criminal act.

You need to get the right garda though - some of them just don't give a sh1te. Avoid calling at potential busy periods or at shift change.

Demios

silver2020 wrote: »

Gardai are more interested in this now than before. It's not a civil matter as a fraud was possibly committed. https://www.garda.ie/en/Crime/Cyber-crime/I-ve-been-caught-out-by-an-online-scam-What-should-I-do-.html

A civil matter is if it stopped working and you were in contact with the seller and an argument of fixing it ensued. If the seller sold it to you and was deceptive in their description / fraudulently sold it, then its a criminal act.

You need to get the right garda though - some of them just don't give a sh1te. Avoid calling at potential busy periods or at shift change.

Thank you, I will look into this more. I dont mind hounding my local fraud dept as I wont be letting this one go by a long shot. Clearly deceptive as they waited a few days to avoid any issues quickly after the sale before initiating the blacklisting.

drunkmonkey

Your at nothing, it's either fraud or a billing problem.
The fraud is between the network and the Gardai, the default on the bill is between the phone owner and the Network.
Your unfortunately the Piggy in the middle with no rights whatsoever.
See can you sell it for parts, screen etc is worth something if it's not an iPhone.

dzsfah2xoynme9

That's why I'd never buy a phone on Done Deal. I only use adverts and buy from sellers that have been on the site a while and have good rep..

0ph0rce0

Happened to myself before.

Was only blacklisted in Ireland so sold it on to someone in the UK via ebay and worked for them no bother.

Couldn't get anywhere with three but got most of the cash back this way in the end.

Could be a different system now days??? Check below and it will tell you where it's blocked.

https://imei24.com/blacklist_check/

Demios

Raelyn Acidic Dough wrote: »

That's why I'd never buy a phone on Done Deal. I only use adverts and buy from sellers that have been on the site a while and have good rep..

I used Adverts and in fairness the persons feedback was nothing but positive.

They've gone dark since myself and adverts tried contacting them about it though.

Demios

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Happened to myself before.

Was only blacklisted in Ireland so sold it on to someone in the UK via ebay and worked for them no bother.

Couldn't get anywhere with three but got most of the cash back this way in the end.

Could be a different system now days??? Check below and it will tell you where it's blocked.

https://imei24.com/blacklist_check/

Thanks for the tip, I am hoping to avoid selling it on again as I purchased it for my significant other but if I get nowhere with the Garda that will probably be my next port of call sadly.

drunkmonkey

Demios wrote: »

Thanks for the tip, I am hoping to avoid selling it on again as I purchased it for my significant other but if I get nowhere with the Garda that will probably be my next port of call sadly.

What crime had been committed? You bought a working phone with 0 warranty, it worked now it doesn't.
Sell it for whatever you can get.

whippet

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What crime had been committed? You bought a working phone with 0 warranty, it worked now it doesn't.
Sell it for whatever you can get.

It’s stolen property.... so despite the OP paying for it he does not own it.

antix80

If the phone was stolen, you should be happy the thief hasn't benefited from stolen goods.

I suppose it could be a scam by the original owner - reporting it stolen for insurance then selling it on.

dzsfah2xoynme9

Demios wrote: »

I used Adverts and in fairness the persons feedback was nothing but positive.

They've gone dark since myself and adverts tried contacting them about it though.

Link the users adverts profile.

antix80

Also, afaik it's only blacklisted on Irish networks.

drunkmonkey

whippet wrote: »

It’s stolen property.... so despite the OP paying for it he does not own it.

It's not stolen. It's was either purchased with fradulent documents or the owner defaulted on their bill.
OP has no claim here anytime soon. Could go down the small claims route, it's pretty much dragging on the head fcuk though, get what you can for it and move on.

Another option is find a broken one for cheap that's genuine and put his good parts into it.

If he's been on adverts a while maybe mods can help, See will he cut a deal, don't leave him bad feedback if he promises to sort it out. His reputation might be more valuable than the phone. The pair of them are after getting done.

Demios

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What crime had been committed? You bought a working phone with 0 warranty, it worked now it doesn't.
Sell it for whatever you can get.

According to a detective I spoke to, Criminal Justice Act, Section 6

"Making gain or causing loss by deception.

6.—(1) A person who dishonestly, with the intention of making a gain for himself or herself or another, or of causing loss to another, by any deception induces another to do or refrain from doing an act is guilty of an offence.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on conviction on indictment to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or both."

Had to look it up myself. According to the network that blacklisted it they are actively looking into this kind of scam regularly and are happy to engage with the Garda should a form be submitted for more information. Adverts were the same.

Demios

Raelyn Acidic Dough wrote: »

Link the users adverts profile.

Not going to do that until I've been advised by the authorities.

I accept the phone is surely a goner but I am determined to have this person looked into. They've a bunch of phones come and gone on the website. Mainly withdrawn rather than stated as sold.

I also spoke to a kind sales guy in a Eir store and he reckons it's common that people get upgrades and later report them stolen/missing and claim another on insurance and sell the soon to be blacklisted phone. That would explain why it worked initially after the sale. Can't trust anyone these days sadly

drunkmonkey

The Eir guy gave you one example of why a phone can be blacklisted, it's more common the phone was taken out on a new contract and the bill was never paid. As per the terms of most phone contacts the device remains the property of the network until the contract is complete.
You won't be able to find out the information of how exactly it became blacklisted as that is GDPR protected information that won't be shared with you.
Your at a loss here, how did you pay for it, PayPal/credit card? Can you get your money back that way.

corks finest

Raelyn Acidic Dough wrote: »

That's why I'd never buy a phone on Done Deal. I only use adverts and buy from sellers that have been on the site a while and have good rep..

Agreed,DD is full of bloody chancers

Demios

corks finest wrote: »

Agreed,DD is full of bloody chancers

I actually purchased it from somebody on Adverts. They had perfect feedback all along (I'd know better than try DoneDeal), that's what's disappointing about all this. They've had plenty of phones up prior to mine and I know they've purchased off others on Adverts so it's not like they were a new profile.

skinny90

Demios wrote: »

I actually purchased it from somebody on Adverts. They had perfect feedback all along (I'd know better than try DoneDeal), that's what's disappointing about all this. They've had plenty of phones up prior to mine and I know they've purchased off others on Adverts so it's not like they were a new profile.

whats their profile?

Demios

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skinny90 wrote: »

whats their profile?

I'd rather not say until I hear back from the Garda yet. Also Boards admins might put me on the naughty step.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

It is of course trivial to find out...

https://www.adverts.ie/20874279

Demios

Trinity Wooden Ruby wrote: »

It is of course trivial to find out...

https://www.adverts.ie/20874279

I know, but I didn't want to the one doing the sleuthing seeing boards and adverts are connected.

Notice the amount of withdrawn ads, alot of those were pulled after sales were completed. Unsure how this wasn't flagged by adverts sooner. I couldn't have been the only person who fell foul of this seller

un5byh7sqpd2x0

A lot of phones there, I wonder was the back of a truck involved which is why it’s black listed and the user has disappeared.

Demios

Trinity Wooden Ruby wrote: »

A lot of phones there, I wonder was the back of a truck involved which is why it’s black listed and the user has disappeared.

Quite likely.

Eggonyerface

A memorable enough username and profile picture for people to avoid in future

whippet

whippet wrote: »

It’s stolen property.... so despite the OP paying for it he does not own it.

How is it stolen? It was sold.

Look, it's section 6 theft but proving it? That's the challenge. Phone companies claim they will help investigations but in reality they do the absolute minimum to avoid more hassle.

For future reference op, report it to the Gardai and adverts, don't bring it up on a public forum.

Hellrazer

Demios wrote: »

I used Adverts and in fairness the persons feedback was nothing but positive.
.

I wouldn't say that the feedback was nothing but positive.I would not have bought a high value item off that user at all. The fact that none of his ads are marked as sold but all withdrawn is a bit strange.


Ive been on adverts since it was a forum here on boards and the amount of scammers since it changed to the model its on now is ridiculous. Even feedback cant really be trusted anymore.
The dodgy users build up positive feedback by either taking loads of free stuff or by buying cheap stuff until they have some positives and then they start selling and scamming people.
That user isn't even sms verified never mind address verified and that to me would have been a huge red flag.

I have 411 positive feedback which Ive built up over 12 years or so and that's was by being honest , not trying to rip people off and being completely transparent. With high value items I insist on the buyer seeing it working and usually insist on the same if Im buying something.


Im posting this with some tips for others so they can avoid this situation in the future.

1. Check and see if the seller is at least sms verified - address verified is better as they receive a postcard in the post that has to be sent back to adverts HQ in order to get address verified and this can be a great help with something like this.

2. Read their feedback and even go back and see what items they bought or sold - if its made up of just free stuff and really cheap items Id exercise caution. If they mark everything as withdrawn and not sold Id be questioning their feedback.

3.No post - ever. I will not post an item or buy an item where the seller insists on postage - this probably should be number 1 on this list. The only time Ive been attempted to be scammed was by a user who insisted on posting even though they were less than 10 kms from me. I always,always collect or deliver / meet up and have driven all over the country if something is worth the price. If they are in a car I always take a pic of the reg.

4.Usually if its too good to be true then it is...The honest sellers know the value of something and wont let it go at what seems like the bargain of a lifetime. Yes there are bargains to be had and there are users that I would buy / sell with regularly and if they have something that I want or vise versa we can usually come to a good deal but that's built up from years of trust.

skinny90

If a phone is factory unlocked, can it still be blacklisted?

L1011

skinny90 wrote: »

If a phone is factory unlocked, can it still be blacklisted?

Its an IMEI block. Network locking is irrelevant to that

antix80

skinny90 wrote: »

If a phone is factory unlocked, can it still be blacklisted?

The IMEI number is blacklisted on all networks in Ireland.

As far as I know, it's illegal to change the IMEI in Ireland.

The best option is to try to convince a mobile network to remove the IMEI from their blocklist by providing proof of purchase. Not sure an adverts.ie page showing a withdrawn ad from pig_benis will cut it.

drunkmonkey

There's not a hope the network will whitelist the phone, they won't even talk to you if your not the registered owner.

guil

Demios wrote: »

I know, but I didn't want to the one doing the sleuthing seeing boards and adverts are connected.

Notice the amount of withdrawn ads, alot of those were pulled after sales were completed. Unsure how this wasn't flagged by adverts sooner. I couldn't have been the only person who fell foul of this seller

Is that the phone you bought? It's always advised against off thread dealing (think it is still a rule) and that alone would have been enough to turn me off the sale.

GerardKeating

antix80 wrote: »

The best option is to try to convince a mobile network to remove the IMEI from their blocklist

Won't happen, only option (to recover something from the deal) is to sell it to someone on an non-Irish network, but perhaps technically this might be selling stolen goods.

Grab All Association

Not all is lost. As the phone is unlocked, try sell it to someone in the U.K. or EU. I buy a lot of phones from the USA/U.K. etc that are blacklisted there but work perfectly here in Ireland. Unless you’re buying from someone up North or the U.K, never buy a new/like new sealed phone.