Should Ireland have mandatory military service?

pgj2015

I think we should. Our soldier numbers have fallen a lot over the last decade due to poor pay mainly. so if everyone under say 25 had to do 1 year in the army at least we up our soldier numbers. It also wouldn't do any harm to instill some discipline into some of the youth of the country.

I have talked to people from countries where they had mandatory military service and some of them told me they were very wild before they took part and it changed them for the better.

dennyire

Yeah agreed they should.....might help a lot of young gougers

Collie D

pgj2015 wrote: »

I think we should. Our soldier numbers have fallen a lot over the last decade due to poor pay mainly. so if everyone under say 25 had to do 1 year in the army at least we up out soldier numbers. It also wouldn't do any harm to instill some discipline into some of the youth of the country.

I have talked to people from countries where they had mandatory military service and some of them told me they were very wild before they took part and it changed them for the better.

I'm guessing you're not under 25?

JimmyVik

pgj2015 wrote: »

I think we should. Our soldier numbers have fallen a lot over the last decade due to poor pay mainly. so if everyone under say 25 had to do 1 year in the army at least we up out soldier numbers. It also wouldn't do any harm to instill some discipline into some of the youth of the country.

I have talked to people from countries where they had mandatory military service and some of them told me they were very wild before they took part and it changed them for the better.

You go first.

the beer revolu

No.
But I would be in favour of mandatory national service - just not necessarily military service - that could be an option.
A year of organised civil service is what I'd suggest. There could be several fields, one of which could be military.
It's a good leveller as long as the rich can't buy their way out of it.
.

pgj2015

Collie D wrote: »

I'm guessing you're not under 25?

im not but even if they had it for under 40 say, I wouldn't mind at all to be honest. I said under 25 because that is usually the age most countries set as far as i know, some under 23 I think.

jam_mac_jam

No. We have a lot more important things to pay for then people playing soldier for a few months.

Let young people enjoy themselves, they have enough to worry about without losing a year. They have to go through more years of education at a greater expense.

Most young people are not in need of this. I like idea above of national service. However can we tackle the grannies on trolleys or some mental health services first.

Sardonicat

We could just pay our soldiers better. Make it an attractive career option that attracts the kind of person that doesn't require 'sorting out'. Why would you want gougers in our army?

pgj2015

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

No. We have a lot more important things to pay for then people playing soldier for a few months.

Let young people enjoy themselves, they have enough to worry about without losing a year. They have to go through more years of education at a greater expense.

Most young people are not in need of this.

being in the army isn't playing soldiers for a few months. a lot can happen in 1 year.

king_of_mayo

All citizens should be required to do 3 years service to the State. It may be in the military, hospitals or a general work group. This will help people have a better sense of civic pride and understand hard work. Also could help train people. Like imagine you sign for the general work group, and they're like ok you're gonna help with forest preservation then that's a skill you have right there for civilian life. Same with mechanics and brickies.

If you refuse, you get 10 years in prison.

B.A._Baracus

Collie D wrote: »

I'm guessing you're not under 25?

You asked the very question I was going to.

pgj2015 wrote: »

im not but even if they had it for under 40 say, I wouldn't mind at all to be honest. I said under 25 because that is usually the age most countries set as far as i know, some under 23 I think.

UK is early 30s. But since you answered you are over 25, op. Don't you think that's some cheek? :pac:

The army isn't about going around blowing bubbles and picking daisies. Yes the Irish army are peace keepers but it's the army. People can get seriously hurt. People can die. It's an army.

So there you are thinking how how other people should risk their health and life while, let's be honest, you scratch your arse?

rtron

Years ago I wouldn't have agreed to this. But now I think it's needed. It could be done instead of transition year or at leaving cert before going to college.

pgj2015

king_of_mayo wrote: »

All citizens should be required to do 3 years service to the State. It may be in the military, hospitals or a general work group. This will help people have a better sense of civic pride and understand hard work. Also could help train people. Like imagine you sign for the general work group, and they're like ok you're gonna help with forest preservation then that's a skill you have right there for civilian life. Same with mechanics and brickies.

If you refuse, you get 10 years in prison.

That is a bit north korean for my liking.

Sardonicat

king_of_mayo wrote: »

All citizens should be required to do 3 years service to the State. It may be in the military, hospitals or a general work group. This will help people have a better sense of civic pride and understand hard work. Also could help train people. Like imagine you sign for the general work group, and they're like ok you're gonna help with forest preservation then that's a skill you have right there for civilian life. Same with mechanics and brickies.

If you refuse, you get 10 years in prison.

So, engender civic pride through 3 years slave labour on pain of ten years in jail. Yeah, that'll nurture a deep sense if patriotism and sense of national loyalty, alright.

El Tarangu

As far as I know, recruitment into the Defence Forces is over-subscribed, so there does not seem much point in having conscription, in that case.

I think that compulsory military service would be a great way to encourage our most successful graduates to leave the country in droves, much in the same way that military service in Greece has*

*I don't have any figures for this, but live in a country with a large Greek population; most of the young men I know (whom Greece has spent a lot of money educating to a high level) are living abroad at so that they won't have to do their military service.

lalababa

The only things that would work to 'sort out' the undesirables is education and zero tolerance. Afaik and with the little experience I've had is that little Johnny see's and learns from his group/older kids that there is no real immediate consequences to their behavior be it impolite/disrespectful/intimation/petty crime/vandalism. And one thing leads to another. The Gaurds don't give a sh*t (or don't have the time) (or don't care as long as it's not in the media) (don't have the tools)for the small stuff.

Del2005

Sardonicat wrote: »

We could just pay our soldiers better. Make it an attractive career option that attracts the kind of person that doesn't require 'sorting out'. Why would you want gougers in our army?

Why would we want to pay people to be cannon fodder?Unless we massively invest in our military, which isn't going to happen, any invading army will wipe out our troops in no time. We are better off disbanding the army and aer corps and than turning it into a conscript army

jam_mac_jam

El Tarangu wrote: »

As far as I know, recruitment into the Defence Forces is over-subscribed, so there does not seem much point in having conscription, in that case.

I think that compulsory military service would be a great way to encourage our most successful graduates to leave the country in droves, much in the same way that military service in Greece has*

*I don't have any figures for this, but live in a country with a large Greek population; most of the young men I know (whom Greece has spent a lot of money educating to a high level) are living abroad at so that they won't have to do their military service.

Exactly. Everyone would just move. I know I would. Not a chance I would waste a year of my life at that age.

pgj2015

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

You asked the very question I was going to.




UK is early 30s. But since you answered you are over 25, op. Don't you think that's some cheek? :pac:

The army isn't about going around blowing bubbles and picking daisies. Yes the Irish army are peace keepers but it's the army. People can get seriously hurt. People can die. It's an army.

So there you are thinking how how other people should risk their health and life while, let's be honest, you scratch your arse?

They woudln't be sent abroad to lebanon or syria etc but would be used in the unlikely event we are ever invaded, that is what out army is a defence force. so the chances of any of them being hurt would be extremely low. I just happen to be over 25, that doesnt mean I cant have an opinion on something like this, who do you think makes most decisions like this in other countries? older politicians well over 25. also if Ireland was ever in a war and people were conscripted I would be first in line to join up, im being totally honest here.

king_of_mayo

Sardonicat wrote: »

So, engender civic pride through 3 years slave labour on pain of ten years in jail. Yeah, that'll nurture a deep sense if patriotism and sense of national loyalty, alright.

You're free to leave to go to another country. You can't have a mandatory service that people can opt out of...

And slave labour, give me a break. You'll get paid, housed and taught skills and real life networking.

jonnny68

Absolutely this should happen, a large percentage of youths nowadays have no respect for anything or anyone, dragged up scumbags who think they are entitled to anything with no morals or values, a stint in the army would instil manners into them,.

Limpy

No

YellowBucket

Hmm, yeah teach the young hooligans to use guns. That’ll solve everything!

The army isn’t a national baby sitting service for angsty teenagers and it’s already badly funded. It’s the proportionally the smallest in the EU and OECD.

I think it’s insulting to the defence forces to ask them to do this.

Why don’t you take them into your workplace for a year and provide them with on the job training?!

OU812

pgj2015 wrote: »

It also wouldn't do any harm to instil some discipline into some of the youth of the country.

So, let me get this straight...

You want to take the scumbags we have (a small proportion of the population, but they're there), toughen them up even more, arm them and train them how to use weapons more effectively???

Sardonicat

king_of_mayo wrote: »

You're free to leave to go to another country.

And that's exactly what would happen. Everyone would leave.

pgj2015

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

You asked the very question I was going to.




UK is early 30s. But since you answered you are over 25, op. Don't you think that's some cheek? :pac:

The army isn't about going around blowing bubbles and picking daisies. Yes the Irish army are peace keepers but it's the army. People can get seriously hurt. People can die. It's an army.

So there you are thinking how how other people should risk their health and life while, let's be honest, you scratch your arse?

The UK doesn't have mandatory military service. I know it is 33 for their army but that is a different thing.

elefant

king_of_mayo wrote: »

You're free to leave to go to another country. You can't have a mandatory service that people can opt out of...

And slave labour, give me a break. You'll get paid, housed and taught skills and real life networking.

And this is exactly what would happen. A huge percentage of our university graduates would leave the country.

Strumms

pgj2015 wrote: »

That is a bit north korean for my liking.

Yes I don’t think that in a democracy, it’s very democratic if a percentage of its population is forced for a year of their lives into a job / situation that isn’t of their liking or choosing....

king_of_mayo

And the general work group (non-military) could be sent abroad too to help out with foreign development. They get a chance to see the world, do good in needy countries and we get the hard respect on the international stage and recognition, and they come out of it with skills, money and the drive to further themselves.

Sardonicat

OU812 wrote: »

So, let me get this straight...

You want to take the scumbags we have (a small proportion of the population, but they're there), toughen them up even more, arm them and train them how to use weapons more effectively???

Throw in a knowledge of military strategy, too. What could go wrong?

MarkR

I think it's a great idea. Everyone should have to do something. Military would be good for discipline, but it should be spread out to roles in the community. Should be linked to some form of accreditation so that they have something tangible at the end.

king_of_mayo

elefant wrote: »

And this is exactly what would happen. A huge percentage of our university graduates would leave the country.

Fine, there's plenty who'll take their place from other countries. You'll ahve to do this before uni too. Don't want people skiving from the state, then running off when they have to do something for other people.

If you go abroad to dodge it, you can never return without imprisonment.

pgj2015

El Tarangu wrote: »

As far as I know, recruitment into the Defence Forces is over-subscribed, so there does not seem much point in having conscription, in that case.

I think that compulsory military service would be a great way to encourage our most successful graduates to leave the country in droves, much in the same way that military service in Greece has*

*I don't have any figures for this, but live in a country with a large Greek population; most of the young men I know (whom Greece has spent a lot of money educating to a high level) are living abroad at so that they won't have to do their military service.

we used to have 10,000 soldiers, I think we have only 7,000 now. there are a lot leaving as the pay is so bad so military service would boost the numbers.

LawBoy2018

We don't need soldiers, hence why the reserves are paid peanuts. That's harsh but it's the reality.

joe40

jonnny68 wrote: »

Absolutely this should happen, a large percentage of youths nowadays have no respect for anything or anyone, dragged up scumbags who think they are entitled to anything with no morals or values, a stint in the army would instil manners into them,.

If they're in the Army but not out of choice how would it instill manners. They would just tell the commanding officer to f*CK off.
Actual soldiers, accept the discipline because they want to be in the Army. The last thing a defense force needs are uncommitted recruits that would just be a waste of time and resources.

pgj2015

YellowBucket wrote: »

Hmm, yeah teach the young hooligans to use guns. That’ll solve everything!

The army isn’t a national baby sitting service for angsty teenagers and it’s already badly funded. It’s the proportionally the smallest in the EU and OECD.

I think it’s insulting to the defence forces to ask them to do this.

Why don’t you take them into your workplace for a year and provide them with on the job training?!

what you dont seem to understand is the army can change the young hooligans into disciplined men.

elefant

king_of_mayo wrote: »

Fine, there's plenty who'll take their place from other countries. You'll ahve to do this before uni too. Don't want people skiving from the state, then running off when they have to do something for other people.

If you go abroad to dodge it, you can never return without imprisonment.

Okay, as a thought experiment, let's just take all that as a given for now.

Everyone with a solid career ahead of them and a good education behind them is incentivised to leave Ireland. Do you honestly still think this seems like a good idea? And the idea of joining the army to 'do something for other people'? What a joke.

YellowBucket

To be realistic, this is about as likely as Ireland introducing the prohibition of alcohol, chips and abolishing the GAA.

The concept of conscription goes utterly against the grain of Irish politics, doesn’t sit well with history or the national psyche generally.

It’s just law and order Boardsies’ bubble fantasy.

pgj2015

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

We don't need soldiers, hence why the reserves are paid peanuts. That's harsh but it's the reality.

that is like saying we don't need riot police because we hardly ever have riots, lets just get rid of them. all countries should have soldiers.

LawBoy2018

jonnny68 wrote: »

Absolutely this should happen, a large percentage of youths nowadays have no respect for anything or anyone, dragged up scumbags who think they are entitled to anything with no morals or values, a stint in the army would instil manners into them,.

Said every boomer ever. "A large percentage..." yawn.

pgj2015

elefant wrote: »

Okay, as a thought experiment, let's just take all that as a given for now.

Everyone with a solid career ahead of them and a good education behind them is incentivised to leave Ireland. Do you honestly still think this seems like a good idea?

why would they leave? is 1 year in the Irish army going to be so bad? its not like they are being trained as gladiators and have to fight each other to the death each week.

joe40

MarkR wrote: »

I think it's a great idea. Everyone should have to do something. Military would be good for discipline, but it should be spread out to roles in the community. Should be linked to some form of accreditation so that they have something tangible at the end.

I think something like that has merit, maybe some sort of national service /community work/military whatever.

I don't like the idea of it been mandatory but maybe it could be used for leaving cert points or some other tangible benefit.

A lot of kids have no experience of work outside of school. Not necessarily their fault, sometimes options aren't available.

Calahonda52

OU812 wrote: »

So, let me get this straight...

You want to take the scumbags we have (a small proportion of the population, but they're there), toughen them up even more, arm them and train them how to use weapons more effectively???

FMJ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSbdIZyPaoQ

YellowBucket

pgj2015 wrote: »

what you dont seem to understand is the army can change the young hooligans into disciplined men.

Yeah I’ve encountered many a British soldier on holidays on the Spanish costas and at football matches and they’re always a model of non tattooed, friendly, well behaved discipline and sobriety.

elefant

pgj2015 wrote: »

why would they leave? is 1 year in the Irish army going to be so bad? its not like they are being trained as gladiators and have to fight each other to the death each week.

Why would they stay? It's of no benefit to the vast, vast majority of Irish people in their twenties.

LawBoy2018

pgj2015 wrote: »

that is like saying we don't need riot police because we hardly ever have riots, lets just get rid of them. all countries should have soldiers.

No actually, it's not, at all. The very fact that there may be a riot is reason enough to have riot police. Why on earth would we ever need soldiers? To fight in all of those wars we're involved in? Lol.

king_of_mayo

elefant wrote: »

Okay, as a thought experiment, let's just take all that as a given for now.

Everyone with a solid career ahead of them and a good education behind them is incentivised to leave Ireland. Do you honestly still think this seems like a good idea? And the idea of joining the army to 'do something for other people'? What a joke.

1) It'll be some service to the state. General work, or hsopital or army.

2) Frankly I think if someone at age 17/18, wants to forgo their life here then fine. The rules are the rules. We could do with getting rid of the wasters.

3) We're giving a huge leg up to the young people. Think of all you'd learn in 3 years, then uni and life. Or you might find your calling and do a trade or whatever. You'll be housed, fed, paid and learn something. It's win win.

pgj2015

Strumms wrote: »

Yes I don’t think that in a democracy, it’s very democratic if a percentage of its population is forced for a year of their lives into a job / situation that isn’t of their liking or choosing....

Look, we are lucky were were born in such a great country, Ireland is one of the best countries in the world to live in. if they cant give 1 year back then there is something wrong, also its not like they will be breaking rocks all day, they will be taught valuable life skills, discipline etc.

king_of_mayo

Strumms wrote: »

Yes I don’t think that in a democracy, it’s very democratic if a percentage of its population is forced for a year of their lives into a job / situation that isn’t of their liking or choosing....

Legally we're all "forced" to take a few years of education. You don't get a choice. Most people (non-cranks) agree that's a good thing.

elefant

king_of_mayo wrote: »

1) It'll be some service to the state. General work, or hsopital or army.

2) Frankly I think if someone at age 17/18, wants to forgo their life here then fine. The rules are the rules. We could do with getting rid of the wasters.

3) We're giving a huge leg up to the young people. Think of all you'd learn in 3 years, then uni and life. Or you might find your calling and do a trade or whatever. You'll be housed, fed, paid and learn something. It's win win.

People don't owe anything to the state.

The people you'd be most likely to be 'rid of' are the people most likely to be positive contributors to society.

Most young people don't need whatever leg up 3 years of servitude is supposed to offer.

joe40

64000 students did the junior cert last year,
that would be the type of numbers involved every year. Do you honestly think the military could cope with that number of recruits to train, house etc

Military service is a non runner, the Army wouldn't accept it.