Muslim cleric seeks exemption for Eid event

tonysopprano

https://www.thejournal.ie/croke-park-eid-al-adha-social-distancing-numbers-5152341-Jul2020/

Polar101

I'm not going to comment on the event itself.

500 people at Croke Park doesn't sound very different to 200 people at Croke Park. But there is a reason why restrictions are in place, and if they grant permission to one event, then everyone will apply for exemptions.

riffmongous

Polar101 wrote: »

I'm not going to comment on the event itself.

500 people at Croke Park doesn't sound very different to 200 people at Croke Park. But there is a reason why restrictions are in place, and if they grant permission to one event, then everyone will apply for exemptions.

According to the article that's why they are applying for this, after a similar exception was already made

Al-Qadri said that he has written to Taoiseach Michéal Martin to ask that the government consider appropriate guidelines for the event, similar to an exception that was granted to places of worship after a request by Archbishop Martin.

At the start of July, the government issued new guidance that allowed places of worship to hold more than 50 people indoors, provided that social distancing was observed and that the premises would be divided into distinct areas which would each hold no more than 50 people

votecounts

wouldn't see a problem myself as my mass got one of those exemptions by dividing the church in to sections.

tonysopprano

That was then, this is now. Phase 4 has been postponed,

Beechwoodspark

From what iv seen I like sheikh al kadri so ON CONDITION they can do social distancing then let them go ahead with it

tonysopprano

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

From what iv seen I like sheikh al kadri so ON CONDITION they can do social distancing then let them go ahead with it

So go ahead with Phase 4 for muslim celebration, but all Irish events/socialising etc, THAT CAN EQUALLY PRACTICE SOCIAL DISTANCING, to still to be banned.

Even for a troll, that is some call

Ray Donovan

So I can't go and see my club play in the county championship but there will be a Muslim celebration in CP. Hmmmmmm.

TimeToShine

tonysopprano wrote: »

So go ahead with Phase 4 for muslim celebration, but all Irish events/socialising etc, THAT CAN EQUALLY PRACTICE SOCIAL DISTANCING, to still to be banned.

Even for a troll, that is some call

It's the equivalent of Christmas to be fair, a weekend on the pints is hardly comparable.

I don't see a problem with granting the exemption but it would depend on how things unfold in the next two weeks.

Tokyo

tonysopprano wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/croke-park-eid-al-adha-social-distancing-numbers-5152341-Jul2020/

Mod: Rather than dropping a link with no content, what are your thoughts on this yourself, OP?

Adam9213

Polar101 wrote: »

I'm not going to comment on the event itself.

500 people at Croke Park doesn't sound very different to 200 people at Croke Park. But there is a reason why restrictions are in place, and if they grant permission to one event, then everyone will apply for exemptions.

True.

Annasopra

tonysopprano wrote: »

So go ahead with Phase 4 for muslim celebration, but all Irish events/socialising etc, THAT CAN EQUALLY PRACTICE SOCIAL DISTANCING, to still to be banned.

Even for a troll, that is some call

This is an Irish event

Nijmegen

The event was planned and now they’re chancing their arm asking for an exception. Replace “Muslim cleric” with “publican”, “hotel wedding planner” etc and it doesn’t sound all that controversial to certain types of commentators I’ve read elsewhere online.

I think they should be refused but I’m enjoying all the stirring going on around this event, from Liberal.ie fairytales about animal sacrifice in the stadium to how outrageous it is that a MUSLIM cleric might be asking for an exception when all us IRISH (insert Ivory Coast flag) are obeying the rules (and btw in another thread I’m posting about how I don’t want to obey the rules and think they’re BS.)

Tasfasdf

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

This is an Irish event

Ya sure it is.

gmisk

Tasfasdf wrote: »

Ya sure it is.

So your saying muslim people can't be Irish?

Supercell

In fairness how can we say yes to one religious group and no to another for pretty much the same thing? Personally I don't have a problem with it, not like it's going to be a great big pissup with zero social distancing like a wedding or a concert.

jam_mac_jam

I say no. Why should this event be exempt because its religious.

Sorry no. Rules are rules. If weddings etc have to have restrictions then I don't see why this is any different. Social distancing or not.

Beechwoodspark

Shiekh umar al qadri seems to be one of the good guys in fairness. I like him from what I’ve seen.

But public health officials will have to make the final decision on them

shootermacg

Can we not rent 2 fields in the outskirts and ensure that equal halves are maintained? This would keep everyone happy.

biko

Croke already allow events like concerts and also the International Eucharistic Congress.
But to sidestep health guidelines isn't ok. We already had these BLM marches ignoring the guidelines.

Let them hold it in Phoenix Park, socially distant.

This is not socially distant btw (an 2017 Eid in B'ham)

riffmongous

biko wrote: »

Croke already allow events like concerts and also the International Eucharistic Congress.
But to sidestep health guidelines isn't ok. We already had these BLM marches ignoring the guidelines.

Let them hold it in Phoenix Park, socially distant.

This is not socially distant btw (an 2017 Eid in B'ham)

The BLM marches didn't lead to any increase in cases though, in any european country AFAIK, indoor religious services however have been linked to a number of clusters so outdoor is definitely the way to go alright.

Was there any covid related reason it's being held in Croke Park? Or was that always the plan?

Strumms

riffmongous wrote: »

The BLM marches didn't lead to any increase in cases though, in any european country AFAIK, indoor religious services however have been linked to a number of clusters so outdoor is definitely the way to go alright.

Was there any covid related reason it's being held in Croke Park? Or was that always the plan?

Through luck, not design.

Why can’t the head of this organization just say... “ok, health crisis, let’s lead by example, say we played our part, sacrifice and do it when it’s safe”

Are they considering the staff at the event, Croke Park security, door staff etc, cleaners, catering...?

It’s almost like they’d have great pride in trying to push through the event as a ‘win’ against the greater wishes of the state and its people, worrying.

Coillte_Bhoy

The GAA have also asked for the restrictions from 200 to 500 to be eased for their games.

biko

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

The GAA have also asked for the restrictions from 200 to 500 to be eased for their games.

Them fookers can wait too.

beggars_bush

sorry, every citizen should be treated the same. no

TheValeyard

The R number is between 1.4 to 1.8.

It's too risky with rise in numbers.

Coillte_Bhoy

beggars_bush wrote: »

sorry, every citizen should be treated the same. no

You mean like the Catholic church, who got an exemption?

CrankyHaus

I don't like the idea of any exemptions, especially if religions of any kind are getting favoured over secular gatherings.

That said it seems to me that Croker could fit 500 socially distanced people without issue. I suppose the Devil is in the detail and I see nothing from the Imam that seems particularly unreasonable.

Ray Donovan

Strumms wrote: »

Through luck, not design.

Why can’t the head of this organization just say... “ok, health crisis, let’s lead by example, say we played our part, sacrifice and do it when it’s safe”

Are they considering the staff at the event, Croke Park security, door staff etc, cleaners, catering...?

It’s almost like they’d have great pride in trying to push through the event as a ‘win’ against the greater wishes of the state and its people, worrying.

That sound you hear is the nail hitting the head. Looking forward to the Islamaphobe rubbish being thrown around if the GAA cancel it.

And in 2020, in a highly developed Western society how are we celebrating and promoting a festival with that has animal sacrifice as it's core components?

Stone Age stuff.

Spanish Eyes

Am not in favour at all. Not for religious reasons, couldn't care less about that, but the message it sends out to those who wish to congregate in large numbers but can't.

Purple Mountain

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Am not in favour at all. Not for religious reasons, couldn't care less about that, but the message it sends out to those who wish to congregate in large numbers but can't.

Yea I'd agree. I'd say a lot of brides and grooms would be angered by this exception when they've had to slash their guest lists to a quarter.
No problem with it in normal circumstances, but everyone has to feel the sacrifice for everyone else to respect it.

biko

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

You mean like the Catholic church, who got an exemption?

I had to look this up
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/catholic-churches-in-ireland-exempted-from-coronavirus-reopening-limits-44668

CNA Staff, Jun 26, 2020 Churches and other places of worship in Ireland will be permitted to open to more than 50 people, following a new exception to the country’s Phase Three coronavirus reopening. The exception was announced on Thursday evening.

The Knock Basilica, which is one of the largest churches in Ireland, has a capacity of 10,000 people--yet would not have been permitted to host more than 50 people inside under the existing Phase Three restrictions.

Meeting this afternoon, the Cabinet gave approval for churches and other places of worship to be exempted from the rule which will still apply to other indoor venues.

So all places of worship are exempt.
Hence the Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland with a capacity of 1700 people will work for Eid.
The mosque is already exempt and has the required capacity.


Fun fact
The Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland endorsed the No Vote for the Abortion Vote and the No vote for the removal of the blasphemy ban.

Spanish Eyes

Simplest thing to do is pare the numbers down to whatever is allowed in outdoor gatherings, 200 I think. Sorted surely?

Or have two or three gatherings <200 to cater for everyone.

Or as @Biko said above have the ceremony in the huge mosque.

We all have our part to play in this.

biko

An interview with the cleric Umar Al-Qadri in 2015
I'm kinda liking this guy for his view on women.

Al-Qadri told <him> that women were equal, didn’t have to hand over money they earned, and couldn’t be forced to cook.

And he isn't getting payouts from the wahhabists.

Al-Qadri does stress his independence. Mosques tend to be funded by large religious organisations or wealthy scions; his Islamic centre isn’t, he says.

Instead, it’s funded by mosque members and a cut of the proceeds from his halal-certification business, he says.

Although the Sheik himself seem ok with LGBT the same cannot be said for members of the Muslim Youth Council of Ireland:

Shaykh Al-Qadri, who is chairman of the council and imam at the Al-Mustafa Islamic Centre mosque, said members of the Muslim Youth Council of Ireland had questioned his invitation to LGBT people to take part in the Iftar.

“How can you do this? Are you condoning homosexuality?” they had asked him, he said.

https://www.dublininquirer.com/2015/06/10/an-imam-tries-to-grow-his-influence
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/muslim-leader-criticised-over-insulting-invite-to-gay-people-1.2707041

biko

So it went ahead.

200 men gathered (no wimmins allowed I suppose) to pray to commemorate the willingness of Ibrahim to follow Allah's command to sacrifice his son.

Note how 200 men could not fit into the Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland with a capacity of 1700 people.
Instead a sportsground for 80 thousand were needed.

is_that_so

biko wrote: »

So it went ahead.

200 men gathered (no wimmins allowed I suppose) to pray to commemorate the willingness of Ibrahim to follow Allah's command to sacrifice his son.

Note how 200 men could not fit into the Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland with a capacity of 1700 people.
Instead a sportsground for 80 thousand were needed.

Not allowed is why, max of 50 inside and outside events encouraged at present says the roadmap.

Herb Powell

biko wrote: »

So it went ahead.

200 men gathered (no wimmins allowed I suppose) to pray to commemorate the willingness of Ibrahim to follow Allah's command to sacrifice his son.

Note how 200 men could not fit into the Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland with a capacity of 1700 people.
Instead a sportsground for 80 thousand were needed.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Indoor gatherings are a lot riskier.

That looks about as safe as you'll get tbh. The religious aspect, who gives a fucck. I'm no fan of the church either but I'd have no problem with Mass being done in a similar fashion.

OneEightSeven

There were women at the event, both speaking and praying, but they were segregated from the men.

Hopefully, seeing this backwards sight on their teles this morning will frighten a lot of middle-aged folk and pensioners into voting for the National Party next time out.

JasonStatham

I thought the GAA didn't allow foreign sports in their grounds.

Spanish Eyes

Well it's done now and looks safe enough to me. As I said in an earlier post 200 outdoors should always have been the max allowed, and thankfully it was. Otherwise it would have set a precedent.

Move on now.

Beasty

Agreed - it's a non-story despite what some wish to make of it

Thread closed