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Muslim cleric seeks exemption for Eid event

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,019 ✭✭✭Polar101


    I'm not going to comment on the event itself.

    500 people at Croke Park doesn't sound very different to 200 people at Croke Park. But there is a reason why restrictions are in place, and if they grant permission to one event, then everyone will apply for exemptions.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,872 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Polar101 wrote: »
    I'm not going to comment on the event itself.

    500 people at Croke Park doesn't sound very different to 200 people at Croke Park. But there is a reason why restrictions are in place, and if they grant permission to one event, then everyone will apply for exemptions.

    According to the article that's why they are applying for this, after a similar exception was already made
    Al-Qadri said that he has written to Taoiseach Michéal Martin to ask that the government consider appropriate guidelines for the event, similar to an exception that was granted to places of worship after a request by Archbishop Martin.

    At the start of July, the government issued new guidance that allowed places of worship to hold more than 50 people indoors, provided that social distancing was observed and that the premises would be divided into distinct areas which would each hold no more than 50 people


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭votecounts


    wouldn't see a problem myself as my mass got one of those exemptions by dividing the church in to sections.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 863 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    That was then, this is now. Phase 4 has been postponed,

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,000 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    From what iv seen I like sheikh al kadri so ON CONDITION they can do social distancing then let them go ahead with it


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 863 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    From what iv seen I like sheikh al kadri so ON CONDITION they can do social distancing then let them go ahead with it

    So go ahead with Phase 4 for muslim celebration, but all Irish events/socialising etc, THAT CAN EQUALLY PRACTICE SOCIAL DISTANCING, to still to be banned.

    Even for a troll, that is some call

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Ray Donovan


    So I can't go and see my club play in the county championship but there will be a Muslim celebration in CP. Hmmmmmm.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    So go ahead with Phase 4 for muslim celebration, but all Irish events/socialising etc, THAT CAN EQUALLY PRACTICE SOCIAL DISTANCING, to still to be banned.

    Even for a troll, that is some call

    It's the equivalent of Christmas to be fair, a weekend on the pints is hardly comparable.

    I don't see a problem with granting the exemption but it would depend on how things unfold in the next two weeks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,656 ✭✭✭✭Tokyo



    Mod: Rather than dropping a link with no content, what are your thoughts on this yourself, OP?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭Adam9213


    Polar101 wrote: »
    I'm not going to comment on the event itself.

    500 people at Croke Park doesn't sound very different to 200 people at Croke Park. But there is a reason why restrictions are in place, and if they grant permission to one event, then everyone will apply for exemptions.

    True.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,214 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    So go ahead with Phase 4 for muslim celebration, but all Irish events/socialising etc, THAT CAN EQUALLY PRACTICE SOCIAL DISTANCING, to still to be banned.

    Even for a troll, that is some call

    This is an Irish event

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    The event was planned and now they’re chancing their arm asking for an exception. Replace “Muslim cleric” with “publican”, “hotel wedding planner” etc and it doesn’t sound all that controversial to certain types of commentators I’ve read elsewhere online.

    I think they should be refused but I’m enjoying all the stirring going on around this event, from Liberal.ie fairytales about animal sacrifice in the stadium to how outrageous it is that a MUSLIM cleric might be asking for an exception when all us IRISH (insert Ivory Coast flag) are obeying the rules (and btw in another thread I’m posting about how I don’t want to obey the rules and think they’re BS.)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 660 ✭✭✭Tasfasdf


    This is an Irish event

    Ya sure it is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,239 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Tasfasdf wrote: »
    Ya sure it is.
    So your saying muslim people can't be Irish?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,616 ✭✭✭✭Supercell


    In fairness how can we say yes to one religious group and no to another for pretty much the same thing? Personally I don't have a problem with it, not like it's going to be a great big pissup with zero social distancing like a wedding or a concert.

    Have a weather station?, why not join the Ireland Weather Network - http://irelandweather.eu/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    I say no. Why should this event be exempt because its religious.

    Sorry no. Rules are rules. If weddings etc have to have restrictions then I don't see why this is any different. Social distancing or not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,000 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Shiekh umar al qadri seems to be one of the good guys in fairness. I like him from what I’ve seen.

    But public health officials will have to make the final decision on them


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,874 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Can we not rent 2 fields in the outskirts and ensure that equal halves are maintained? This would keep everyone happy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,219 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Croke already allow events like concerts and also the International Eucharistic Congress.
    But to sidestep health guidelines isn't ok. We already had these BLM marches ignoring the guidelines.

    Let them hold it in Phoenix Park, socially distant.

    This is not socially distant btw (an 2017 Eid in B'ham)
    Eid-al-Adha-prayers-in-Small-Heath-Park.jpg


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,872 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    biko wrote: »
    Croke already allow events like concerts and also the International Eucharistic Congress.
    But to sidestep health guidelines isn't ok. We already had these BLM marches ignoring the guidelines.

    Let them hold it in Phoenix Park, socially distant.

    This is not socially distant btw (an 2017 Eid in B'ham)
    Eid-al-Adha-prayers-in-Small-Heath-Park.jpg
    The BLM marches didn't lead to any increase in cases though, in any european country AFAIK, indoor religious services however have been linked to a number of clusters so outdoor is definitely the way to go alright.

    Was there any covid related reason it's being held in Croke Park? Or was that always the plan?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    The BLM marches didn't lead to any increase in cases though, in any european country AFAIK, indoor religious services however have been linked to a number of clusters so outdoor is definitely the way to go alright.

    Was there any covid related reason it's being held in Croke Park? Or was that always the plan?

    Through luck, not design.

    Why can’t the head of this organization just say... “ok, health crisis, let’s lead by example, say we played our part, sacrifice and do it when it’s safe”

    Are they considering the staff at the event, Croke Park security, door staff etc, cleaners, catering...?

    It’s almost like they’d have great pride in trying to push through the event as a ‘win’ against the greater wishes of the state and its people, worrying.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,922 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    The GAA have also asked for the restrictions from 200 to 500 to be eased for their games.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,219 ✭✭✭✭biko


    The GAA have also asked for the restrictions from 200 to 500 to be eased for their games.
    Them fookers can wait too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,843 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    sorry, every citizen should be treated the same. no


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,261 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    The R number is between 1.4 to 1.8.

    It's too risky with rise in numbers.

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,922 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    sorry, every citizen should be treated the same. no

    You mean like the Catholic church, who got an exemption?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    I don't like the idea of any exemptions, especially if religions of any kind are getting favoured over secular gatherings.

    That said it seems to me that Croker could fit 500 socially distanced people without issue. I suppose the Devil is in the detail and I see nothing from the Imam that seems particularly unreasonable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Ray Donovan


    Strumms wrote: »
    Through luck, not design.

    Why can’t the head of this organization just say... “ok, health crisis, let’s lead by example, say we played our part, sacrifice and do it when it’s safe”

    Are they considering the staff at the event, Croke Park security, door staff etc, cleaners, catering...?

    It’s almost like they’d have great pride in trying to push through the event as a ‘win’ against the greater wishes of the state and its people, worrying.

    That sound you hear is the nail hitting the head. Looking forward to the Islamaphobe rubbish being thrown around if the GAA cancel it.

    And in 2020, in a highly developed Western society how are we celebrating and promoting a festival with that has animal sacrifice as it's core components?

    Stone Age stuff.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,100 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Am not in favour at all. Not for religious reasons, couldn't care less about that, but the message it sends out to those who wish to congregate in large numbers but can't.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,534 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    Am not in favour at all. Not for religious reasons, couldn't care less about that, but the message it sends out to those who wish to congregate in large numbers but can't.

    Yea I'd agree. I'd say a lot of brides and grooms would be angered by this exception when they've had to slash their guest lists to a quarter.
    No problem with it in normal circumstances, but everyone has to feel the sacrifice for everyone else to respect it.

    To thine own self be true



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,219 ✭✭✭✭biko


    You mean like the Catholic church, who got an exemption?
    I had to look this up
    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/catholic-churches-in-ireland-exempted-from-coronavirus-reopening-limits-44668
    CNA Staff, Jun 26, 2020 Churches and other places of worship in Ireland will be permitted to open to more than 50 people, following a new exception to the country’s Phase Three coronavirus reopening. The exception was announced on Thursday evening.

    The Knock Basilica, which is one of the largest churches in Ireland, has a capacity of 10,000 people--yet would not have been permitted to host more than 50 people inside under the existing Phase Three restrictions.

    Meeting this afternoon, the Cabinet gave approval for churches and other places of worship to be exempted from the rule which will still apply to other indoor venues.
    So all places of worship are exempt.
    Hence the Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland with a capacity of 1700 people will work for Eid.
    The mosque is already exempt and has the required capacity.


    Fun fact
    The Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland endorsed the No Vote for the Abortion Vote and the No vote for the removal of the blasphemy ban.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,100 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Simplest thing to do is pare the numbers down to whatever is allowed in outdoor gatherings, 200 I think. Sorted surely?

    Or have two or three gatherings <200 to cater for everyone.

    Or as @Biko said above have the ceremony in the huge mosque.

    We all have our part to play in this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,219 ✭✭✭✭biko


    An interview with the cleric Umar Al-Qadri in 2015
    I'm kinda liking this guy for his view on women.
    Al-Qadri told <him> that women were equal, didn’t have to hand over money they earned, and couldn’t be forced to cook.

    And he isn't getting payouts from the wahhabists.
    Al-Qadri does stress his independence. Mosques tend to be funded by large religious organisations or wealthy scions; his Islamic centre isn’t, he says.

    Instead, it’s funded by mosque members and a cut of the proceeds from his halal-certification business, he says.


    Although the Sheik himself seem ok with LGBT the same cannot be said for members of the Muslim Youth Council of Ireland:
    Shaykh Al-Qadri, who is chairman of the council and imam at the Al-Mustafa Islamic Centre mosque, said members of the Muslim Youth Council of Ireland had questioned his invitation to LGBT people to take part in the Iftar.

    “How can you do this? Are you condoning homosexuality?” they had asked him, he said.

    https://www.dublininquirer.com/2015/06/10/an-imam-tries-to-grow-his-influence
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/muslim-leader-criticised-over-insulting-invite-to-gay-people-1.2707041


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,219 ✭✭✭✭biko


    So it went ahead.

    200 men gathered (no wimmins allowed I suppose) to pray to commemorate the willingness of Ibrahim to follow Allah's command to sacrifice his son.

    Note how 200 men could not fit into the Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland with a capacity of 1700 people.
    Instead a sportsground for 80 thousand were needed.


    image.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    biko wrote: »
    So it went ahead.

    200 men gathered (no wimmins allowed I suppose) to pray to commemorate the willingness of Ibrahim to follow Allah's command to sacrifice his son.

    Note how 200 men could not fit into the Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland with a capacity of 1700 people.
    Instead a sportsground for 80 thousand were needed.


    image.jpg
    Not allowed is why, max of 50 inside and outside events encouraged at present says the roadmap.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,097 ✭✭✭Herb Powell


    biko wrote: »
    So it went ahead.

    200 men gathered (no wimmins allowed I suppose) to pray to commemorate the willingness of Ibrahim to follow Allah's command to sacrifice his son.

    Note how 200 men could not fit into the Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland with a capacity of 1700 people.
    Instead a sportsground for 80 thousand were needed.


    image.jpg

    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Indoor gatherings are a lot riskier.

    That looks about as safe as you'll get tbh. The religious aspect, who gives a fucck. I'm no fan of the church either but I'd have no problem with Mass being done in a similar fashion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭OneEightSeven


    There were women at the event, both speaking and praying, but they were segregated from the men.

    Hopefully, seeing this backwards sight on their teles this morning will frighten a lot of middle-aged folk and pensioners into voting for the National Party next time out.

    521742.jpg

    521743.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 548 ✭✭✭JasonStatham


    I thought the GAA didn't allow foreign sports in their grounds.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,100 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Well it's done now and looks safe enough to me. As I said in an earlier post 200 outdoors should always have been the max allowed, and thankfully it was. Otherwise it would have set a precedent.

    Move on now.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,456 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Agreed - it's a non-story despite what some wish to make of it

    Thread closed


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