If Ireland was on the right of the UK

completedit

How different would our history have been!

Ush1

Culchies would still call Dubs West Brits, crazy foos!

Wild Field 1831

We'd have colder, continental winters and warmer drier summers.

completedit

Wild Field 1831 wrote: »

We'd have colder, continental winters and warmer drier summers.

brb just heading down the baltic to st.petersburg

Wild Field 1831

Ush1 wrote: »

Culchies would still call Dubs West Brits, crazy foos!

Dublin would be called something like 'Dubsbourg'

completedit

Think about it. We'd be nothing like we are now that's for sure. Except for being an island nation and the character traits that come with that.
.

skallywag

I am sure there would still be the same amount of skunk available to prompt someone on boards.rightsidedIE to start a thread postulating what may have been if Ireland had been located to the left.

branie2

Ush1 wrote: »

Culchies would still call Dubs West Brits, crazy foos!

East Brits, more like

completedit

skallywag wrote: »

I am sure there would still be the same amount of skunk available to prompt someone on boards.rightsidedIE to start a thread postulating what may have been if Ireland had been located to the left.

I'm interested in the timelines and how history could have gone if you change a variable. Alternative history and geographies. Interesting stuff if you let the noggin wander. Just harmless fun

skallywag

completedit wrote: »

Interesting stuff if you let the noggin wander. Just harmless fun

I agree completely.

Guy:Incognito

Are we talking Ireland and Britain swapping places or Britain being where it is now and Ireland being to the right?

completedit

Interesting. I always thought of it as us swapping places. But for this thought experiment I'm talking smack bang between Britain and the Scandis.


Looks like we get all that Norwegian oil. Big bizness.

Tzardine

Galway would likely be the capital.

patmac

completedit wrote: »

Interesting. I always thought of it as us swapping places. But for this thought experiment I'm talking smack bang between Britain and the Scandis.


Looks like we get all that Norwegian oil. Big bizness.

We’d have given it away unlike the Norwegians.

Vita nova

Ush1 wrote: »

Culchies would still call Dubs West Brits, crazy foos!

Well probably something equally egregious if you still called them "culchies".

D3V!L

We'd all be speaking some Nordic language

DrGreenThumb82

Imagine the absolute ****ing shambles that would be the channel tunnel project from Cork to France.

Ted_YNWA

DrGreenThumb82 wrote: »

Imagine the absolute ****ing shambles that would be the channel tunnel project from Cork to France.

Imagine the French trying to understand the Cork accent.

branie2

Ted_YNWA wrote: »

Imagine the French trying to understand the Cork accent.

Ooh eez theez boy?!

I thought the OP meant political-right, as opposed to East.

We'd probably be Belgium-in-the-sea, a country with no real indigenous culture or national cohesion, more of a patch of ground that became a centuries-old battlefield. That's all Belgium is, which is partly why it was chosen for the EU capital.

rossie1977

We would be the Dutch..

The chan chan man

The right?! You mean East?! Jasus, what are they teaching in geography classes these days!

corner of hells

Would we own the Isle of Man?

biko

Tzardine wrote: »

Galway would likely be the capital.

Cork would still claim to be the real capital.

A2LUE42

So no rockall then ?

We'd be swimming in oil and giving away our natural gas to Shell.

s1ippy

D3V!L wrote: »

We'd all be speaking some Nordic language

Nope, the entire western world would be speaking as Gaeilge.

bucketybuck

If Ireland were a smaller island to the right of Britain it would have been fully conquered and assimilated by the English centuries ago, as opposed to the mild occupation that did occur.

A little island beside the Atlantic is one thing, a smaller but strategically vital island between Great Britain and the continent is another thing entirely, they would have taken it, held it and made it completely and utterly theirs.

murpho999

bucketybuck wrote: »

If Ireland were a smaller island to the right of Britain it would have been fully conquered and assimilated by the English centuries ago, as opposed to the mild occupation that did occur.

A little island beside the Atlantic is one thing, a smaller but strategically vital island between Great Britain and the continent is another thing entirely, they would have taken it, held it and made it completely and utterly theirs.

Have you ever read a history book? A mild occupation? Plantations, Cromwell, Penal Laws, Famine, Sectarianism, Black & Tans just for starters

They're still here in part of it by the way.

Feisar

murpho999 wrote: »

Have you ever read a history book? A mild occupation? Plantations, Cromwell, Penal Laws, Famine, Sectarianism, Black & Tans just for starters

They're still here in part of it by the way.

Yes but bucketybuck's point stands. Go back to Roman times, they never came to Ireland. Swap Ireland and the UK, we would have been under Roman control. Same applies to the Normans going to England.

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

Have you ever read a history book? A mild occupation? Plantations, Cromwell, Penal Laws, Famine, Sectarianism, Black & Tans just for starters

They're still here in part of it by the way.

Yeah but that was mostly just the Brits bribing, oppressing and occasionally fighting lesser-armed natives.

This would have been a different country, had another European power been fighting for the island too.

There'd have been centuries of epic battles and sieges. We'd be Malta 3.0

murpho999

Feisar wrote: »

Yes but bucketybuck's point stands. Go back to Roman times, they never came to Ireland. Swap Ireland and the UK, we would have been under Roman control. Same applies to the Normans going to England.

I disagree as Ireland was strategically important to them as they were always afraid of being attacked via the back door.by France or Spain.

I think they had Ireland in full control for centuries and it was by no means a soft occupation.

bucketybuck

murpho999 wrote: »

Have you ever read a history book? A mild occupation? Plantations, Cromwell, Penal Laws, Famine, Sectarianism, Black & Tans just for starters

They're still here in part of it by the way.

murpho999 wrote: »

I think they had Ireland in full control for centuries and it was by no means a soft occupation.

Is Ireland an independent country today?

Since the answer to that is yes, then my point stands.

JeffKenna

Germany would have definitely invaded during WW2 for starters.

Feisar

murpho999 wrote: »

I disagree as Ireland was strategically important to them as they were always afraid of being attacked via the back door.by France or Spain.

I think they had Ireland in full control for centuries and it was by no means a soft occupation.

If one literally swaps Ireland and the UK though as land masses on a map I don't think the Romans would have stopped and again I doubt the Normans would have, so in effect Cork becomes Cornwall in terms of the 1601 Spanish aid. Ireland if it was the same size as the UK, things would be different however we see it today with economics, we are just too small to achieve critical mass. How come there is no amazon.ie for example?

murpho999

bucketybuck wrote: »

Is Ireland an independent country today?

Since the answer to that is yes, then my point stands.

No it doesn't stand as the vast majority of colonised countries are now independent.

murpho999

Feisar wrote: »

If one literally swaps Ireland and the UK though as land masses on a map I don't think the Romans would have stopped and again I doubt the Normans would have, so in effect Cork becomes Cornwall in terms of the 1601 Spanish aid. Ireland if it was the same size as the UK, things would be different however we see it today with economics, we are just too small to achieve critical mass. How come there is no amazon.ie for example?

Strange to link Romans not coming here to there be no Amazon.ie.

Amazon is a very poor example as they only have 13 country sites but ship all over the world.
But we're big enough for the other major websites to have Irish domains.

Anynow if you're referring to population then Ireland's would have been a lot bigger nowadays had it not been for British occupation as it was at 8 million pre famine, whilst Britain's was 16m.
So I think it's fair to say the island could easily have had a population now of 20-30 million without these events.

Why can we not even talk about Ireland being hypotethically landed in the north sea without a fight about the Brits?

I worry sometimes that they are at the centre of our identity now just as much as they were prior to independence.

When you ask someone (or or we ask ourselves) what it means to be Irish, the answer is often framed as a form of unBritishness. I'm not a monarchist, not an individualist and I don't believe empires are ever glorious -- but there's very little by the way of positively defining our identity.

The last outpost of the Brits in Ireland, apart from the 6 counties, is rent-free in our goddam heads.

An Ri rua

Wild Field 1831 wrote: »

Dublin would be called something like 'Dubsbourg'

Hanson actually turned down St Petersburg for Dublin...
So there ye go now, comrades...

An Ri rua

Wild Field 1831 wrote: »

Dublin would be called something like 'Dubsbourg'

Gandon actually turned down St Petersburg for Dublin...
So there ye go now, comrades...

whisky_galore

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The last outpost of the Brits in Ireland, apart from the 6 counties, is rent-free in our goddam heads.

Hardly a day goes by without a Brit hate and/or Brit obsession thread. It's sad in a way that hating a neighbour somehow defines us.

nigeldaniel

I was not sure what the OP meant, but, it looks like on the right landmass wise. I can only guess that Ireland would not be in 2 parts ig; No North Ireland. We might also have kepth in with the UK. If Hitler landed here in WW2, we might well have giving him ww2 by accident. Things could be different in a major way.

Muahahaha

If we were to the right of the UK Id imagine we might all be speaking Irish rather than english. Of course thats on the presumption that the UK didnt invade us, which they did when to the left so certainly would have if to the right.

bucketybuck

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Why can we not even talk about Ireland being hypotethically landed in the north sea without a fight about the Brits?

I worry sometimes that they are at the centre of our identity now just as much as they were prior to independence.

When you ask someone (or or we ask ourselves) what it means to be Irish, the answer is often framed as a form of unBritishness. I'm not a monarchist, not an individualist and I don't believe empires are ever glorious -- but there's very little by the way of positively defining our identity.

The last outpost of the Brits in Ireland, apart from the 6 counties, is rent-free in our goddam heads.

Did you have this saved somewhere and just wanted to use it regardless of what the question was?

Rent free in our heads? Worried they are at the centre of our identity?

Worry about that if you will, but when it comes to this hypothetical there is not one single thing more influential than what Great Britain would have done as a result.

Not talking about the Brits in this scenario would just be ignoring a herd of elephants in the room.

completedit

Muahahaha wrote: »

If we were to the right of the UK Id imagine we might all be speaking Irish rather than english. Of course thats on the presumption that the UK didnt invade us, which they did when to the left so certainly would have if to the right.

Not necessarily. First mover advantage would seemed to have applied. Our natural resource base changes completely so we end up industrializing probably along with the Brits(and maybe before)

We are able to build a large fleet and have ample farm land to feed the population.

threeball

We'd all be speaking German. Hitler would have won the war and the Brits and yanks would be too far away from the continent to do anything about it.

Thats assuming we hadn't already been totally absorbed by the brits in the 700yrs previous.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

Worry about that if you will, but when it comes to this hypothetical there is not one single thing more influential than what Great Britain would have done as a result.

Not talking about the Brits in this scenario would just be ignoring a herd of elephants in the room.

It's exactly this kind of impassioned dialogue that I was referring to. It seems impossible to have even a hypothetical conversation about Irish history without people appealing to centuries of dead generations being downtrodden, even though they have no right to take that oppression personally, as if they experienced it.


That's what I'm referring to. There is a national fixation with Irish identity in relation to Britain instead of being our own people, where Britain is nothing more than a good neighbour.

bucketybuck

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

It's exactly this kind of impassioned dialogue that I was referring to. It seems impossible to have even a hypothetical conversation about Irish history without people appealing to centuries of dead generations being downtrodden, even though they have no right to take that oppression personally, as if they experienced it.


That's what I'm referring to. There is a national fixation with Irish identity in relation to Britain instead of being our own people, where Britain is nothing more than a good neighbour.

Yep, you definitely think you are in some other thread.

thecornflake

If Ireland and Britain swapped places then we would be the British (ok maybe not exactly). We would have evolved as they did and they as we did. It would essentially be roles reversed (obviously not exactly as differences would still change the outcome).

If Ireland was stuffed between the mainland of Britain and Europe it would be a way different story. We certainly would have been a/the battle field for ww2 and most likely would have been scared by trenches and power struggles during ww1. Even before that it would have altered history as we know it due to the massive change it would have had on Europe.

Hence I think (imo) the OP has posed a question of really great standing that i declare it a really interesting and probably best question in a long time to hit the forum of AH.

Fair play OP

Barna77

Muahahaha wrote: »

If we were to the right of the UK Id imagine we might all be speaking Irish rather than english.

The Anglo Saxons would have migrated here, so Ireland would be speaking what is now English and Britain some Celtic language, I guess.

Do we keep the natural resources (turf) that we already have, or do we get iron and coal?