Liability for disruptive passenger

m'lady

I’m really hoping for some advice, but I’ll have to refrain from giving a lot of information due to the nature of my job. I am a Social Care Worker, and work in a residential unit for children in care.

We have a particular child that on a number of cases has nearly caused a serious accident whilst in the car with a staff member. The staff have now been informed by a Garda that if this individual caused an accident or if we were reported by a member of the public for erratic or dangerous driving (due to the child in question assaulting us as we are driving for example) that we would be charged with dangerous driving and would face charges, would get penalty points and could lose our licence.. this would be separate from the company insurance, it would be a private case against us.

Can anyone here please tell me if this is true?

Atlantic Dawn

Who owns the car?

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m'lady wrote: »

I’m really hoping for some advice, but I’ll have to refrain from giving a lot of information due to the nature of my job. I am a Social Care Worker, and work in a residential unit for children in care.

We have a particular child that on a number of cases has nearly caused a serious accident whilst in the car with a staff member. The staff have now been informed by a Garda that if this individual caused an accident or if we were reported by a member of the public for erratic or dangerous driving (due to the child in question assaulting us as we are driving for example) that we would be charged with dangerous driving and would face charges, would get penalty points and could lose our licence.. this would be separate from the company insurance, it would be a private case against us.

Can anyone here please tell me if this is true?

Have you a reason to disbelieve the garda? I would guess it is basically true but it is just a guess


If the driver had reason to believe the child would cause an accident i imagine carrying the child in the car without securing the child so he cannot cause an accident would be careless or reckless driving .


Possibly in breach of the obligation drive with consideration for other road users and if the car is a private car rather than a residential unit car, i.e a company or work owned car, there could be insurance issues. I would imagine the residential unit would be obliged to have a vehicle that could secure the child in transit

endacl

I’d be refusing to drive the child unless they were sat between two large adults on the back seat.

I’d be talking to my line manager explaining that this is the way it was going to go from now on, or they’d be doing the driving.

Del2005

m'lady wrote: »

I’m really hoping for some advice, but I’ll have to refrain from giving a lot of information due to the nature of my job. I am a Social Care Worker, and work in a residential unit for children in care.

We have a particular child that on a number of cases has nearly caused a serious accident whilst in the car with a staff member. The staff have now been informed by a Garda that if this individual caused an accident or if we were reported by a member of the public for erratic or dangerous driving (due to the child in question assaulting us as we are driving for example) that we would be charged with dangerous driving and would face charges, would get penalty points and could lose our licence.. this would be separate from the company insurance, it would be a private case against us.

Can anyone here please tell me if this is true?

Regardless of the possible charges why would you drive with someone who can attack you and cause a serious crash? For your own and other road users safety you shouldn't be driving with the child unsecured and if that's not possible then don't drive with the child in a vehicle.

Gemancy

Your employer is required to carry out a risk assessment for your tasks to identify hazards. You have a duty to report any hazards you become aware of which I’m assuming you have. This is obviously a hazard and controls must be put in place. Have the incidents you refer to above been recorded in your workplace incident log as near misses and as such have any workplace adjustments been implemented?

The child, you and other staff and road users must be protected by reasonably practicable measures. Would the presence of another staff member prevent the actions of the child occurring? Could you walk to the destination? Avail of public transport? I know CV19 complicates the solutions but the solution cannot be that you continue to engage in a work practice that is clearly dangerous.

m'lady

Thank you all for your answers so far. Just to answer a couple of questions asked - it’s the residential units car.. in answer to the question posed- why would we take the risk? we had been under the assumption that we actually had no choice as such, that’s it’s ‘part and parcel of the job’ type thing. It’s only since the conversation with the Guard that it has made us all realise that we really are entitled to better protection.

Peregrinus

Never mind the risk to yourself or the risk to the public; wha about the risk to the child? You and the agency you work for have a duty of care to this child which is absolutely incompatible with driving him in a car in unsafe conditions. I don't know whether the guard is technically correct in saying that you miight be exposed to dangerous driving charges but it doesn't really matter whether he is or not; the situation you describe certainly presents considerable legal risk and considerable professional risk for any of you or your colleagues who have professional accreditation, all founded on considerable real risk of harm to the child, to you and to third parties.

There hasn't been direct harm yet but obviously something has happened if the guards have become aware of the situation. Treat this as a wake-up call and insist that proper arrangements must be made to manage the risks that you have been running up to now. If you are in a union, involve your union, because this is absolutely an employment issue as well; the employer must provide a safe place of work and a safe system of work. (And, if you're not in a union, join one now.)

Bottom line: the current practice is plainly unsafe and must be changed. Do not co-operate in any way with its continuation. Just think about how you will feel if, God forbid, someone is injured or killed - someone who might be the child you are caring for.

Notmything

m'lady wrote: »

Thank you all for your answers so far. Just to answer a couple of questions asked - it’s the residential units car.. in answer to the question posed- why would we take the risk? we had been under the assumption that we actually had no choice as such, that’s it’s ‘part and parcel of the job’ type thing. It’s only since the conversation with the Guard that it has made us all realise that we really are entitled to better protection.

Welcome to residential work.
While it might be 'part and parcel' it should be risk assessed. The young person has no right to be brought in a car, and I've worked in units where this was policy due to their behaviour.

What's the staffing for the y/p? If it was me I would be declining to facilitate driving them unless they sat in the rear with another member of staff. I've worked in a similar situation and have had a resident assault me while driving so I understand your predicament. Your house manager needs to make a decision and you should be discussing this at your team meetings.

coylemj

endacl wrote: »

I’d be refusing to drive the child unless they were sat between two large adults on the back seat.

Bear in mind that this 'child' could be a burly 17 year old who is serving time in Oberstown House 'Detention Campus' for a violent assault. And who is probably bigger and fitter than most of the adults who work in the centre.

Tefral

Yes as the driver, you are personally liable for the way the vehicle is drove. It is no different really from say a speeding fine from a Road Traffic Act point of view.

You need to approach your line manager with this information and detail your concern. You should also ask that a risk assessment be carried out based on this.

The risk assessment has to show mitigation measures - such as a larger vehicle, barriers of some kind or restraints to ensure the occupants, public and the childs own safety.

I would approach your line manager verbally first and then tell them you will follow it up with an email.

ohnonotgmail

coylemj wrote: »

Bear in mind that this 'child' could be a burly 17 year old who is serving time in Oberstown House 'Detention Campus' for a violent assault. And who is probably bigger and fitter than most of the adults who work in the centre.

which is why a risk assessment is necessary. If they cannot be safely carried in a car then alternative arrangements need to be made.

Mrs OBumble

The fact that a child and a work car are involved is secondary.

If the OP was driving a dog around in their own car, knowing that the dog tended to get excited and try to bite them when it saw a traffic light (or whatever) -would there be a legal issue?

I think there should be one, but am not sure what the law is though.

ohnonotgmail

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The fact that a child and a work car are involved is secondary.

If the OP was driving a dog around in their own car, knowing that the dog tended to get excited and try to bite them when it saw a traffic light (or whatever) -would there be a legal issue?

I think there should be one, but am not sure what the law is though.

the driver is responsible for what happens in the car. if the dog distracted them sufficiently to cause an accident the driver would be responsible.

Claw Hammer

The whole road traffic regime is based on drivers being responsible for their vehicle. In many cases the owner of the vehicle is also responsible along with the driver.
Not on that, but the vehicle is a workplace if it is being used in the course of work. It therefore must be safe but for the employee and anybody else who might have occasion to use it.
What is happening in this vehicle breaches all known standards. If there is a disruptive child the child should be conveyed in a modified vehicle which would ensure safety. No individual employee shall expose himself to the risk.

Victor

From a practical point of view, a perspex screen between the driver and the rear seats may be useful. Some taxis are fitting them for COVID-19 reasons. However, ensure it is sufficiently strong.

Gatling

You need to insist on an escort being in the car with you whenever traveling with children or adults with extra needs have you checked your covered by your own insurance for carrying passangers in a work capacity .

I work with special needs kids and I wouldn't travel anywhere in a car with them unless there was an escort to keep them under control when they get disruptive

s1ippy

Another tip besides the good ones here so far (bring an escort, ensure risk assessments and paperwork is all completed for every journey) would be to put a perspex shield between the back and front seat. A lot of taxis are installing these so I'd say it would be an easy fix.

Another thing to remember is that the escort should be someone familiar to the child, aware of their history and able to distract and placate the child with motivators for good behaviour.

If you would like any ideas about how to tailor the management of this particular situation, I work in disability services so feel free to drop me a PM.