Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120466491#Comment_120466491

Of course he doesn't sell beet😄

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120466692#Comment_120466692

I know. He made sense though I thought.

Wildsurfer

I would see where he's coming from though I end up throwing away a nice few tonne of beet whenever I get it as mould starts growing on it before you get to use it up

whelan2

Have lads got enough silage to keep feeding. Using 2021 bales on outfarm, glad to have them..Still a good lot left on homefarm. Feck all grazing done though

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120466722#Comment_120466722

Maybe you could even use up the 50/50 mix on weanlings at grass if the weather cleared up earlier than you thought...

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120466735#Comment_120466735

Feeding since august here, trying to finish off the pit now there’s so little left in it. Glad to have it

kevthegaff

I'm feeding beet, hay and 5kg in the parlour. Come in at 1 in the day, out of silage since yesterday. Out day and night

Good loser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463585#Comment_120463585

That's mostly a rubbishy rant.

Govt built Council houses years ago when they were spending feck all on Social Welfare; now the SW spending is sky high, probably €25 bn a year.

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467584#Comment_120467584

Appears u have very little grasp of basic economics relating to inflation and value of money now, compared to decades ago etc. so be be carefull using terms like "rubbishy rant" against others who actually lived threw these periods of mass unemployment etc. I also suggest you look up how much money this government is spending on the likes of HAP over the past 5 years compared to building houses in a low interest rate environment, which is also driving inflation in the rental market

K.G.

The nitrates is really going to take legs from under dairying in the near future.if i may be so bold as to use siamsa s situation of a farmer on 75 acres.up to this under derogation he could reasonably expect to milk 60 cows and rear his replacements.this year with banding he will lose2 cows assuming middle band.from next year thats its going to 220 so he will lose another 6 cows.add in the prospect of retainong all calves to 3 months and the fact they are now counted from day 1 could mean another 3 cows give or take. So he is now down to 50.if derogation goes and we are down to 170 thats another hit this will realy hurt knocking over 10 cows off his herd.my figures are rough but they not far away and gives you an idea why guys are forking out big money for acres.alot are just retaining the cow numbers in an effort to justify previous investment and probaly using last years profit to justify it.quotas are backing just in a different form

Green&Red

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467625#Comment_120467625

This is a dairy thread, can you take the housing talk somewhere else

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468140#Comment_120468140

I couldn't disagree with much of that.

Another aspect that doesn't add up is that it'll push dairy farmers to get rid of their calves ASAP (be it 14 days, 28 days, or 3 months). This is not going to financially motivate anyone to breed good beef calves. It'll continue driving a wedge between dairy and dairy-beef despite the official line that they are supposed to be working together.

The €100k experts are forgetting about the calves again.

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468188#Comment_120468188

I see the calves being reared to 3 months(off milk) on most dairy farms soon.its already gone to 6 weeks this year.edit to say if you carry a genuine 3 week old calf to the marts near here you ll get no bid.except maybe contintel.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468210#Comment_120468210

I could be wrong but don't some UK co-ops already require farmers to keep calves til they're 12 months? Apparently it's written into the supply contract.

Right or wrong, it'll reduce milk production as cow numbers have to be reduced and it's unlikely beef production will make up that shortfall.

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468140#Comment_120468140

Your calculations are just about correct. Will drive a lot of smaller family farms out of dairying. It just wont be viable. Then there are the bigger lads who have grown in the last few years and have large financial commitments. Not looking rosy there either. Lads need to prepare to farm without derogation. It will not be available long term. The only consolation may be reduced national production will mean higher milk prices ? Less calves.

alps

Talk about defeatism..

Science is behind it's retention.

2 factors play against it, neither scientific...both political.

1. It forces a reduction in numbers, which goes some way to solving a climate issue.

2. It is seen by other countries as an economic advantage to Irish farmers.

The derogation is scientifically sound.

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468451#Comment_120468451

Not dissagreing with you but if you think derogation is going to remain you are in dreamland.

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468451#Comment_120468451

The people pushing for it's removal are no more interested in science than the man on the moon. People pushing for this want to see numbers down. Be that number be the number of farmers, the number of cows, the number for N per ha, number of one off houses, number for gas being imported, number of cars, number for fuel sold, etc. Once the numbers go down, they happy.

Tonynewholland

Even if it goes to 170 the likes of Pippa and Holly will want more if they ever get their way.

Say my name

I've a relation. The father milked cows then got out. Son has got back into cows.

The son is all anti Eamon Ryan. Highly so. If he saw him I'd say he'd drown him.

However (I'm getting somewhere) he's so anti gone his frame of mind is just to show the two fingers.

Case of point he's put a dungheap not far from a river beside a road. He also put a cow trackway through the river.

He's pissing me off (a lifetime established dairy farmer) by doing this.

I'm not going to report him to the authorities. Authorities have probably seen it anyway and are licking their lips for water nitrate results.

I'm getting to a point. Should there not be a halfway house of a counsellor or such in the IFA or such that farmers could ask to have a word with other farmers that such a thing is not in anyone's interest. Without going the whole hog of reporting to government bodies.

Not sure if any of ye read Pat o Tooles recent article in the ifj. It's free to view anyway online.

straight

The writing has been on the wall for a while now. Time for lads to stop burying their heads in the sand.

This crack of dumping culls, calves, flying herds and just depending on the milk cheque is grand until everyone starts doing it.

On/off grazing didn't go too well here today 😲

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120469192#Comment_120469192

To be honest in order to be sustainable long term, stocking rates need to be under 170 Kgs, growing grass at low cost with little fertilizer, growing some grain to supplement in winter and spring or perhaps maize and beet. With that kind of system lads can withstand the highs and lows.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120469192#Comment_120469192

If an honest discussion on nitrates was given by Teagasc and government bodies even to the EPA then the derogation wouldn't go.

By this I mean how nitrates really end up in groundwater and waterways. The whole truth.

Reasons how it happens : The one that everyone thinks of manure and slurry is how it can enter waterways. Same for human sewage. It's how it's spread and how the ground is and if there's plant cover and conditions to take it up.

Other reasons that people don't consider but are the single most important is the soil itself. If the soil has been ploughed. Any nitrate spread or natural nitrate from soil life is now free to move. The plant life and roots are gone in this time, the glue that held the soil together in this time is gone and nutrients wash through. The leachable ones that is, N, P, B, S. The air gets into the soil and bacteria consume carbon that otherwise was unavailable that held onto those nutrients. This happened in the drought of 2018. Nitrate levels went up. Because plants were compromised, air went into the soil got to the carbon and bacteria went into overdrive consuming the carbon. N leached when rains came.

Now what does this all mean for agriculture in Ireland?

Straight off cultivation is going to have an effect. This is at odds with the rhetoric from government bodies, teagasc, epa from what they are looking for.

So maize growing, to turnips, veg, potatoes, cereals, etc have a serious effect.

So that's increased veg growing to maize growing for anaerobic digestion all going to increase nitrate release.

Our environmentalists know this but just the same way they view rice production as a price worth paying re methane. They are willing to say nothing on the issue as it's viewed a result worth taking. Why? Because they want to court the view at the moment of it's all the cows and nothing else to get those numbers down. Get numbers on spreadsheets. Increase and promote anaerobic digestion and growing land for this purpose. If they come now and say turning a spade on soil releases nitrate. It muddies the water from the black/white view that is currently being screamed across the media to influence everyone. It confuses people.

Nitrate release on tilled ground of 7 to 10mg/litre.

On pasture 4 to 5mg.

Say my name

On the teagasc point. There could be ulterior motive on not really going above on beyond to not say anything on stock numbers and it going below 170.

By going below it means more land per beast. And more forage made, more grass available and possibly less or no meal fed.

Reducing meal fed and increasing feed value of forage should be everyone's aim anyways.

But still it's up to farmers to fight their own case.

Edit: just saw Ginger, kind of same message.

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120469416#Comment_120469416

All grand of you’ve loads of land

jaymla627

https://twitter.com/blakebednarz/status/1645883574598377473/mediaviewer

18000 cows supposedly burned alive, mental stuff

straight

Looks like the days are numbered for the lads letting out land tax free. I'd say it's no harm myself but it will effect the land rental market. All that tax free money was always too good to be true.

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120475224#Comment_120475224

What makes you say that? If the tax relief was scrapped what way do you think it would affect supply and price..I think it would tighten supply the same as housing and landowners would want the lad leasing to pay there tax aswell, making land dearer again.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120475267#Comment_120475267

It was on the ifj podcast today. Was brought in to make land available for young farmers originally. Costing dept of finance a lot of money now. Will cut land supply for sure.

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120475303#Comment_120475303

Ok, Was it a success? I think it's just the big have got bigger on the back of it around here anyway..I suppose it may lead to more land coming for sale where it's left to people not interested in farming, which might be a positive.