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F1 season start - Austria

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Comments



  • HighLine wrote: »
    It was a fantastic lap and was delighted to see him get on the podium but I don't like to hear a driver being coached around a lap.

    The two mercs were being coached for most of the race from pit wall.




  • HighLine wrote: »
    It was a fantastic lap and was delighted to see him get on the podium but I don't like to hear a driver being coached around a lap.

    I wouldn’t call that coaching. He’s not being advised on racing lines or braking points or anything, just which straights to press the magic boost button on. Which will depend on the telemetry the team have on the state of the energy storage, temperatures etc. I’d prefer if all that stuff didn’t exist, but as long as it does the drivers always get told how much is available at different stages of the race.




  • 2011 wrote: »
    I think you will find that the majority of F1 fans will disagree with you.

    Trying to have a civil discussion around anything Hamilton does has become increasing difficult. I'm sure there are plenty who thought it was a racing incident, but a lot of social media including here have turned into an anti-Hamilton echo chamber so people just won't bother.




  • it was a little bit too much coaching , dulls the Lando Podium a tiny bit . I get the driver has to choose the racing line , but been instructed to one push of the overtake out certain corners and then 5secs for the next that is a little bit far. I am sure its on the radio all the time for drives but dulls it bi t. Still agreat drive and Nice podium steal as I think Charles had just got the fastest lap right a head of Lando robbing it back .




  • chicorytip wrote: »
    The penalising of Hamilton was harsh, I thought. It was a rash move by Albon. Horner's claim that he "had got the job done" when the collision occurred is ludicrous. The Red Bull was less than half a car length ahead at that point and Lewis did nothing more than defend his position. A more experienced driver than Albon would have bided his time and waited for a clearer opportunity to overtake particularly as it appeared the Red Bull was the faster car at that stage of the race.
    If your front tire hits the back tire of t he other car, it's usually your fault


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  • I don’t like the coaching either. All teams do it though, right?

    I get the radio chat if you’ve got an issue and they tell you to change some settings but all drivers should have to use their own intuition and ability for everything else.




  • Joeface wrote: »
    it was a little bit too much coaching , dulls the Lando Podium a tiny bit . I get the driver has to choose the racing line , but been instructed to one push of the overtake out certain corners and then 5secs for the next that is a little bit far. I am sure its on the radio all the time for drives but dulls it bi t. Still agreat drive and Nice podium steal as I think Charles had just got the fastest lap right a head of Lando robbing it back .

    I don't really agree with that. Throttle, brake, steering, gears - these are the inputs a driver should be the master of. Pressing buttons on the steering wheel to define how long you spend in different engine modes, that depends entirely on the state of the engine and how much it needs to be preserved, which is driven by the team. Every driver on the grid is being told when, and how much energy they have available to use all the time.

    Personally I'd rather ditch all that entirely and go back to proper racing engines, but too much money has been invested in these hybrids for them to ever countenance going back to something better suited to great racing.




  • I don’t like the coaching either. All teams do it though, right?

    I get the radio chat if you’ve got an issue and they tell you to change some settings but all drivers should have to use their own intuition and ability for everything else.

    When it first was broadcast people didn't like it then it was banned what led to comical situations like Lewis in Baku, so gentlemen agreement was struck that FOM won't broadcast this messages anymore.




  • I'd say it happens a lot in qualifying too.




  • quokula wrote: »
    I don't really agree with that. Throttle, brake, steering, gears - these are the inputs a driver should be the master of. Pressing buttons on the steering wheel to define how long you spend in different engine modes, that depends entirely on the state of the engine and how much it needs to be preserved, which is driven by the team. Every driver on the grid is being told when, and how much energy they have available to use all the time.

    Personally I'd rather ditch all that entirely and go back to proper racing engines, but too much money has been invested in these hybrids for them to ever countenance going back to something better suited to great racing.

    It's no wonder they have advice when you read stuff like below
    In all, Formula 1 considers there are six separate elements powering the cars racing during Grand Prix races: the engine, the turbocharger, the MGU-K, the MGU-H, the Energy Store and the control electronics.

    Each of the drivers is entitled to using only four of each of these systems per season. Using more than four of any one component during a race will lead to the driver being penalized on the grid from five to ten places.
    Drivers are capable of switching to different power unit settings or dictate how much energy ERS recovers through steering wheel controls.

    Having ERS allows the driver to either go for a very fast lap time by going full power or saving energy to overtake at critical points while giving up on setting record lap times.


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  • Saw someone on Twitter mention it looked like he was lifting and coasting into corners on that lap , I thought I noticed it through the race with most on-boards. I assume it's for charging and make sure they have full power out of the corners. Along with the instructions I don't like it.




  • To be fair there’s just too much tech rubbish in F1 these days.

    That and way too much disparity amongst teams due to money.

    The new regs will help with the money but not enough unfortunately.

    I’d love all the cars to be the same and the drivers making the difference. It’ll never happen due to money but a man can dream.




  • I don’t like the coaching either. All teams do it though, right?

    I get the radio chat if you’ve got an issue and they tell you to change some settings but all drivers should have to use their own intuition and ability for everything else.

    Early on Hamilton asked where he was losing time to Bottas, the engineer mentioned 2 corners, so Hamilton was also being coached, in this case Hamilton asking for the coaching.




  • Lando-Norris-Formel-1-GP-Oesterreich-Spielberg-5-Juli-2020-169Gallery-346d490b-1703837.jpg




  • A bit strange that people are complaining about engineers talking to the drivers.

    The drivers now have beeps when to change gears, When to lift off to save fuel.

    This happens in all sport, Football with the coach going mental on the sideline, Rugby with the water boys running on with headsets to pass on info from the coaches and spotters in the grandstands. Cycling with radios and team cars and make sure you dont watch the american motorsports they have to be told when to turn right...

    Sport these days are all about the marginal gains and that is how you win or in this case, get onto the podium.


    That brings me on to the next point about Hamilton and I feel like he has taken his eye off the ball by going down an activist route and not concentrating on his racecraft. Hamilton is renowned for being very anal about his racing with debriefs lasting hours and literly talking about each lap down to each gear change. I have a feeling he has spent time worrying and pushing his ideas around which is fine but I have a feeling it was that 5% thinking about it that landed him in 4th today and hopefully he will get it back.




  • Early on Hamilton asked where he was losing time to Bottas, the engineer mentioned 2 corners, so Hamilton was also being coached, in this case Hamilton asking for the coaching.

    And to think if only Bottas thought to ask this to his race engineer every race about Hamilton, he might have 3 world championships by now.




  • jn7u42k68b951.png

    Those last two laps Lando put in.




  • Saw somewhere last night that Landos fastest lap was identical to the fastest lap in 2019 done by Max - to the thousandth! :eek::cool:




  • Low fuel loads would definitely help




  • naughto wrote: »
    Low fuel loads would definitely help

    A 2 second a lap difference between lap 66 and 71 suggests car was coasting along?

    They are babying those cars so much?


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  • Top Dog wrote: »
    Saw somewhere last night that Landos fastest lap was identical to the fastest lap in 2019 done by Max - to the thousandth! :eek::cool:

    That's right. It's still not the fastest lap on this track do. That honour goes to the Iceman himself aka Kimi.




  • Mike3287 wrote: »
    A 2 second a lap difference between lap 66 and 71 suggests car was coasting along?

    They are babying those cars so much?

    Also burning a lot of fuel, the three safety car stints would have given the excess. Plus driving on the ragged edge for a few laps is one thing but over a prolonged period you will crash.




  • Also burning a lot of fuel, the three safety car stints would have given the excess. Plus driving on the ragged edge for a few laps is one thing but over a prolonged period you will crash.

    And this is what separated the good from the great. See Hungary 1998 for a perfect example. There's no such thing as a driver who needs to be capable of driving on the ragged edge for a prolonged period anymore because the cars can't do that.




  • quokula wrote: »
    And this is what separated the good from the great. See Hungary 1998 for a perfect example. There's no such thing as a driver who needs to be capable of driving on the ragged edge for a prolonged period anymore because the cars can't do that.
    MSC had a good few races that were 1.5-2 hours of quali laps in order to make the strategy work. No one does that anymore, and I suspect few, even Alonso or the likes of Max etc would be up to it.


    As you say, that's what separates the good, from the great, from the mercurial. There's only 1 in that "god" tier and that's MSC




  • BikeRacer wrote: »
    And to think if only Bottas thought to ask this to his race engineer every race about Hamilton, he might have 3 world championships by now.

    Funny you should bring this up, because a few years ago Sky kept playing up that Nico Rosberg was doing just that. In light of general negative reaction to this from fans, the FIA banned driver coaching over the radio. It quickly turned out that it was Lewis who suffered badly without the coaching though, and he could barely drive his car in Baku because he didn't know how to put it in the correct mode, so they scrapped the ban straight after.




  • quokula wrote: »
    Funny you should bring this up, because a few years ago Sky kept playing up that Nico Rosberg was doing just that. In light of general negative reaction to this from fans, the FIA banned driver coaching over the radio. It quickly turned out that it was Lewis who suffered badly without the coaching though, and he could barely drive his car in Baku because he didn't know how to put it in the correct mode, so they scrapped the ban straight after.

    Wrong. The ban was scrapped after Rosberg got a penalty for "coaching" to stay out of 7th gear in Silverstone a month later. And besides, Kimi also had a problem in Baku, but couldn't be told how to fix it so Ferrari wanted it scrapped. Alonso said they were driving "space ships" and he wanted it scrapped. Vettel called the ban a "joke" and wanted it scrapped. Button got a penalty the week before in Budapest and said "It's a stupid regulation", so he/McLaren wanted it scrapped.
    https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a1849771/f1-radio-ban-making-waves-again-after-nico-rosberg-penalty/
    Horner added, "We need to address this issue at the next strategy group meeting and modify the rule. "I understand what the FIA wanted to achieve with driver coaching, but in the case of technical problems, we must be able to support the drivers."
    But that doesn't fit anti-Hamilton narrative I suppose.




  • I will admit finding this a bit more amusing than I should have :D





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  • I watched the onboard on youtube of the last 2 laps with Norris.
    They are essentially driving the car through the data vicariously. Madness.


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  • namloc1980 wrote: »

    It doesn't happen a lot but when i saw that the other day the crash ,it reminded me of a thought i had before that may have no basis or anything behind it.

    I think Hamiltion is an exceptional smooth driver when out in front and it shows how good a driver he is ,but there's always a but ,when he is struggling for pace or being pushed like with Albon there ,he collides or tips off the other drivers a lot maybe its no different to any other driver overall but stands out as he is mostly in front ,I have in my head Vettel is similar also but not as smooth a driver overall, maybe that's just the Ferrari though


This discussion has been closed.
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