Death & Morality - Übermensch concept- The Sinner S3

CBear1993

For those of you who have watched The Sinner’s latest season of detective Harry Ambrose’s eery crime mysteries- I thought season 3 was particularly dark.

Even my girlfriend who’s the most optimistic, upbeat person found it incredibly dark and sobering- basically that we are all distracting ourselves from death every day. It’s very depressing!

What’s your thoughts on it or has anyone studied this concept in any detail? A short summary below:

Frederick Nietzsche was a German philosopher in the 19th-20th century who said that god was dead and the superior man had to make the world in his own image. His most famous book was 1887 “genealogy of morality”.

That superior man being this “übermensch”. Nietzsche said that the earth is like an organism with a skin, stretched thinly around the world, and this skin can get diseases from time to time. And one of the diseases that it has is humanity! So his writing is full of darkness about who we are as a collective organism.
It selves into self-destructive Nietzschean concepts of embracing pain and flirting with death as pathways to higher truths.

Sounds like a load of bollocks that bit. But the whole morality thing, Jamie and Nicks obsessive loyalty to coming close to death - jumping from height etc.

I find shows like that really really deep sometimes - basically standing back and taking a look at the world from the outside - and saying that all of us are busy rushing around ... but for what? We are all going to die anyway and none of us know when. Who are the real fools and who is right?

This self righteous BS isn’t something I believe in at all by the way, I think the people who followed it were on another planet.
The whole morality side of things isn’t something I’ve looked into before as death scares me, like everyone.
I often have anxiety about my parents passing away as they get older, and other loved ones. And how time slips by and I’ll be in my old age in no time.


I apologise again for the deeply depressing, boring thread! I know this is after hours so no doubt it’ll get the piss ripped out of it
I promise I’m actually an upbeat fellow who lives a perfectly normal, sociable life like any lad in his 20s.
This show just really reached me on another level.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

TL;DR

begbysback

A lot of that is fundamentally factual, though dark it may be. It can be argued that we are the only species on the planet that is aware of its mortality, therefore suffering is inevitable.

However the outlook of doom is not necessary, for if we were to truly accept this then wouldn’t it imply that we would appreciate each day more? So maybe it’s the avoidance of the question that is the problem, so we are left to busy ourselves with whatever menial tasks are in front of us.

CBear1993

Would you say Jamie & Nick were just basically suicidal in a form or is that different? With those stunts they were risking death essentially

Your Face

Ever since I've stopped caring, life has been a breeze.

TheValeyard

The Sinner, Season 3 was sh1te. No twists, no big mystery, just a long drawn out poop.

begbysback

Your Face wrote: »

Ever since I've stopped caring, life has been a breeze.

But you’re only pretending not to care, underneath it all you really do.

Kylta

CBear1993 wrote: »

For those of you who have watched The Sinner’s latest season of detective Harry Ambrose’s eery crime mysteries- I thought season 3 was particularly dark.

Even my girlfriend who’s the most optimistic, upbeat person found it incredibly dark and sobering- basically that we are all distracting ourselves from death every day. It’s very depressing!

What’s your thoughts on it or has anyone studied this concept in any detail? A short summary below:

Frederick Nietzsche was a German philosopher in the 19th-20th century who said that god was dead and the superior man had to make the world in his own image. His most famous book was 1887 “genealogy of morality”.

That superior man being this “übermensch”. Nietzsche said that the earth is like an organism with a skin, stretched thinly around the world, and this skin can get diseases from time to time. And one of the diseases that it has is humanity! So his writing is full of darkness about who we are as a collective organism.
It selves into self-destructive Nietzschean concepts of embracing pain and flirting with death as pathways to higher truths.

Sounds like a load of bollocks that bit. But the whole morality thing, Jamie and Nicks obsessive loyalty to coming close to death - jumping from height etc.

I find shows like that really really deep sometimes - basically standing back and taking a look at the world from the outside - and saying that all of us are busy rushing around ... but for what? We are all going to die anyway and none of us know when. Who are the real fools and who is right?

This self righteous BS isn’t something I believe in at all by the way, I think the people who followed it were on another planet.
The whole morality side of things isn’t something I’ve looked into before as death scares me, like everyone.
I often have anxiety about my parents passing away as they get older, and other loved ones. And how time slips by and I’ll be in my old age in no time.
As a child (under 10) I even recall having terrible nightmares about the world ending and asteroids etc hurtling towards earth and there was nothing I could do about it... it was only phase!!!

I apologise again for the deeply depressing, boring thread! I know this is after hours so no doubt it’ll get the piss ripped out of it
I promise I’m actually an upbeat fellow who lives a perfectly normal, sociable life like any lad in his 20s.
This show just really reached me on another level.

Get your girlfriend to give you a few slaps in the side of head if that doesn't work see a head doctor. Life is to be lived and enjoyed especially at your age. Its not to be worrying about mortality and death.
And although I think everybody when their young worries about the loss of family members and friends its just a passing phase.
But you might want to watch a few comedies and lighten up a bit.

jimgoose

I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The gods envy us. They envy us because we’re mortal, because any moment may be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we’re doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again. -- Achilles, "Troy"

CBear1993

TheValeyard wrote: »

The Sinner, Season 3 was sh1te. No twists, no big mystery, just a long drawn out poop.

Yeah it was sh*te. Very cringe at times.

EmmetSpiceland

Sorry, but who are “Nick & Jamie”?

jimgoose

Kylta wrote: »

Get your girlfriend to give you a few slaps in the side of head if that doesn't work see a head doctor. Life is to be lived and enjoyed especially at your age. Its not to be worrying about mortality and death.
And although I think everybody when their young worries about the loss of family members and friends its just a passing phase.
But you might want to watch a few comedies and lighten up a bit.

Some of the American Indians say half the trouble with folk these days is they don't touch the Earth enough - you know, just stand on actual grass in bare feet, listen, and breathe.

Your Face

begbysback wrote: »

But you’re only pretending not to care, underneath it all you really do.

You're assuming that though.

CBear1993

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Sorry, but who are “Nick & Jamie”?

Jamie is the main character in Season 3, Nick his demented old friend that gets him into this line of thinking that reappears from his college days

raspberrypi67

Well, I've been watching this, what I can only call, sh**e..!! I got so far and initially I was intreigued with the whole
death thing, which I guess a lot of us dont think of much...
Jamie or Nick is now dead...dont even know who is who, not good with names in these programs..ffs....

I just gave up watching it as one of the guys just seems to me to be cronically depressed imo....last episode he
seem to kill some furtune telling guy...while his poor wife who has just had a baby is wondering who the F is this guy I
married and where is he half the night...bit stupid that you can get councilling in the middle of the night..right....
Its very very slow.....Thinkl ill just try another series....back to Ozark...now this people should watch..Marty Birrrrrd...lol

On the whole god and death thing, myself I think all the religions are just man made for the very reason we'd all prefer to
think there is someting else after death...hhhmmmmm, dont think so....if there is a superior something out there, its got
a bloody great sence of humour and very morbid form of creating a world which is basically a fight for your own corner,
even within families, dont let me start there...!!

CBear1993

CBear1993 wrote: »

we are all distracting ourselves from death every day. [/B] It’s very depressing!

This guy did a 1 hour talk on exactly that topic once and his conclusions I think were the opposite - in that I do not think he finds it depressing at all but liberating and enlightening and even a source of moment to moment joy.

Perhaps it might be useful to you. He talks slow so you can save time by playing it at a higher speed.

begbysback

Your Face wrote: »

You're assuming that though.

Some assumptions can be made with a great degree of accuracy, this would be one of those instances because everybody cares Face. Maybe you just forget from time to time, but don’t get it mixed up.

I have a German philosophy joke, but I don't think you'll get it. It's pretty Nietzsche.

jimgoose

jimgoose wrote: »

Some of the American Indians say half the trouble with folk these days is they don't touch the Earth enough - you know, just stand on actual grass in bare feet, listen, and breathe.

Most human beings live like a bird in a cage whose door was blown away. Out of habit, too busy gold-plating the cage, they do not soar outside.
~ Sadhguru.

Same sentiment from two different kinds of Indian. Both eminently sensible points.

Your Face

begbysback wrote: »

Some assumptions can be made with a great degree of accuracy, this would be one of those instances because everybody cares Face. Maybe you just forget from time to time, but don’t get it mixed up.

Honestly, I don't care

jimgoose

Candie wrote: »

Most human beings live like a bird in a cage whose door was blown away. Out of habit, too busy gold-plating the cage, they do not soar outside.
~ Sadhguru.

Same sentiment from two different kinds of Indian. Both eminently sensible points.

Life + Desire = Man; Life – Desire = God.

-- Sai Baba


Very Dhaoist of him.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Believe me, there’s a difference between knowing you’ll die way off in the distance and being handed a death sentence that will come soon.

I’ve had the guillotine hanging over my neck for five years and it doesn’t get easier to process. I feel a constant heavy weight in my chest. Will it hurt? When will the drugs stop working? Will I lose my mind before I die if it goes to the brain? What will being dead be like? How will I say goodbye to my loved ones? Do I even want them there at the end?

Gruffalux

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Believe me, there’s a difference between knowing you’ll die way off in the distance and being handed a death sentence that will come soon.

I’ve had the guillotine hanging over my neck for five years and it doesn’t get easier to process. I feel a constant heavy weight in my chest. Will it hurt? When will the drugs stop working? Will I lose my mind before I die if it goes to the brain? What will being dead be like? How will I say goodbye to my loved ones? Do I even want them there at the end?

It is truly terrible for you. You are so young and clever and lovely. It is hard to fathom how you manage. I think of you. You do a service if it is any good to hear - of sobering up us jackasses.

Your points also elucidate the series in question. It lacked reality, the true weight of things. I watched it mainly because I don't like to give up. It was too slow. There were inconsistencies, why was he being allowed to roam free to kill just to satisfy the detectives inner turmoil and a plot line. The Nietzsce angle never moved beyond college kid level. It was like everyone involved in the production was too self consciously philosophical, as if some great new shattering truth was being revealed when it is pretty old ground by now. A plot was wedged in around a supposedly philosophical musing but I was not convinced. Too cerebral. Too weak. What was the wife even doing ever speaking to him when she knew what he had done. Weird. But yer man was gorgeous, the nasty chap. Maybe thats what kept me following. Beautiful eyes.