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Used Model S vs Model 3 vs ID.3 vs eNiro etc.

  • 28-06-2020 11:11pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    Hypothetical & ignoring price but these could loosely be considered very similar in terms of range/price, for which would you opt & why?

    Option 1.
    Used UK Model S, 70kWh to 85kWh - €35k, range, 350km? Older vehicle, 5 or possibly 6 years old.
    Option 2.
    eNiro/eSoul 64kWh - €40k - 400km - hatchback/new.
    Option 3.
    Model 3 SR+ 50kWh - OK, it's dearer because it's only available new, but imagine a year old one was available for €35/40k.
    Saloon, not a great looker, range - 350km, but a Tesla!
    Option 4.
    ID.3 1st - 58kWh, brand new, €34k, hatch, latest tech, known brand, range - 350km.

    I guess the lack of the practicality of a hatch goes against the Model 3 but it charges really quickly & has the benefit of the Tesla supercharging network & CCS from Ionity etc. for sustained 120kW charging (peak 170kW).

    Which would you choose?
    Is the Tesla still more desirable given the other options now available?

    ID.3 1st or eNiro or used Model S or Model 3 SR+ 55 votes

    Used UK Model S ...........€36k
    76% 42 votes
    eNiro/eSoul....................€38k
    5% 3 votes
    Model 3 SR+ (year old, ...€37k
    1% 1 vote
    ID.3 1st ........................€34k
    16% 9 votes


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Comments

  • Moderators Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭ Black_Knight


    I assume option 1 is a cpo with warranty.
    And option 3 doesn't exist yet and is speculative regarding price. I don't see a 1 year old 3 being 35-40k. Low 40s I'd imagine.

    Option 4(id3) while competitive on price and range, isn't the same practicality as the others. I've not seen one, but is golf sized, where the others are small->large family cars.


  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭ 650Ginge


    I assume option 1 is a cpo with warranty.
    And option 3 doesn't exist yet and is speculative regarding price. I don't see a 1 year old 3 being 35-40k. Low 40s I'd imagine.

    Option 4(id3) while competitive on price and range, isn't the same practicality as the others. I've not seen one, but is golf sized, where the others are small->large family cars.

    Model 3 at 1 yr old are asking more than new here....not sure that will continue when other options get better.

    MS is too big, M3 too pricey, e-niro is super functional a to b getter but dull, so it looks like the ID3. But I'd have to drive it, I'm sensitive to noisy cars. So maybe ID3 next year. But then there will be IX3. And who know what else.

    What about 2nd hand iPace. I have no idea on the price though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    The best car is the ID.3

    Used Tesla could be a money pit
    The Niro isn’t much taller to the eGolf and similar size internally
    Model 3 is over priced
    ID3 is actually bigger inside to eGold, no idea compared to Tesla but it Passat size as they could fit more in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,627 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    ID.3 is unproven at this point. Is it even possible to test drive one?

    I'd stick with the Koreans for reliability and proven EV drivetrain, but I'd want a heat pump.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    Lumen wrote: »
    ID.3 is unproven at this point. Is it even possible to test drive one?

    I'd stick with the Koreans for reliability and proven EV drivetrain, but I'd want a heat pump.


    Even today the eGolf is one of the best electric cars on the market.



    Nothing wrong with Koerans but the interior is just a step down IMO. I was surprised when I pulled up in the eGolf beside the Niro. Not a whole pile of difference in height. The ID I think is taller so they will probably be similar.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 30,627 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Even today the eGolf is one of the best electric cars on the market.
    :D

    Do you work for VW or VW dealer?


  • Moderators Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭ Black_Knight


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with Koerans but the interior is just a step down IMO.

    I've not seen them in the flesh (few have) but the interior/drivers dash on the ID3 looks horrendous to me. Bit fisher price.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    I've not seen them in the flesh (few have) but the interior/drivers dash on the ID3 looks horrendous to me. Bit fisher price.


    Havent seen the ID3.



    I did test drive the Niro and I sat into a Kona. They where ok. I suppose depends on personal taste more than anything. Someone pointed out to me on the Niro the console doesnt line up at the radio etc....that would annoy me :-)

    I do have the eGolf and a huge step up but I do like a VW


  • Moderators Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭ Black_Knight


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Havent seen the ID3.



    I did test drive the Niro and I sat into a Kona. Not great.



    I do have the eGolf and a huge step up but I do like a VW

    Irish Kona is depressing inside. So grey for so much money. I've read/heard that the Irish eNiro isn't paddy spec'd, and has a better interior. Still Korean level of quality, but not bad.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 59,729 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Voted Model 3. You are way too optimistic about the price though :p

    In real life I couldn't live with the impracticality of a boot for our only family car, need a hatch back for the dog and for carrying things. Have 3 kids so the ID.3 is too small for a family of 5. Kia eNiro is an excellent EV by all means but €40k is a lot of money for what basically is a long range econobox from Korea. So that would leave the second hand Model S. A lot of bad things to say about that car too, but it suits me best.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,771 ✭✭✭✭ ted1


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    The best car is the ID.3

    How can you say that , considering they haven’t released it yet?
    They have built several thousand but can’t get the software working.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,233 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    ted1 wrote: »
    How can you say that , considering they haven’t released it yet?
    They have built several thousand but can’t get the software working.

    Are you aware of what the software issues are? The augmented part of the AR display, Android Auto/Carplay don't work, and over the air updates won't work until the dealer update is applied. The way some sources are reporting the software you'd swear the car is unusable.


  • Moderators Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭ Black_Knight


    liamog wrote: »
    Are you aware of what the software issues are? The augmented part of the AR display, Android Auto/Carplay don't work, and over the air updates won't work until the dealer update is applied. The way some sources are reporting the software you'd swear the car is unusable.

    His point is still valid. The car isn't released yet, yet some are claiming it's the best.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,627 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    liamog wrote: »
    Are you aware of what the software issues are? The augmented part of the AR display, Android Auto/Carplay don't work, and over the air updates won't work until the dealer update is applied. The way some sources are reporting the software you'd swear the car is unusable.

    There's a long piece here which gives some hints of what's going on.

    https://cleantechnica.com/2020/06/15/volkswagen-where-are-you-going/
    It will be years before we have reached the necessary level of expertise in software to be able to compete at the forefront. (…) Even today, hardly a line of software code comes from us.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 59,729 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    His point is still valid. The car isn't released yet, yet some are claiming it's the best.

    I feel it's a reasonable expectation that the car will be good.

    VW is the biggest car maker in the world. Even when they made a compliance EV (the eGolf), it was an excellent car. Most (early and recent) Golfs have been good drivers cars despite being FWD. The ID.3 is a dedicated EV, built as such from the ground up, is rear wheel drive, with plenty of power and torque which is instantly available. The 0-50km/h time is similar as the likes of a BMW M3 (costing 3 times as much)

    So yeah, I have no doubt it will be good. The only areas of worry that I would have are the software (it's a big step up for the company) and that the interior quality is not on a par with what we have come to expect for a VW in that price class.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,233 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    Lumen wrote: »
    There's a long piece here which gives some hints of what's going on.

    https://cleantechnica.com/2020/06/15/volkswagen-where-are-you-going/

    I don't trust that author, he's overly critical of German automakers and noticeably pro Tesla. Which makes sense when you see this in his bio. I prefer my reporters to not have skin in the game.
    Alex Voigt has been a supporter of the mission to transform the world to sustainable carbon free energy for 40 years. As an engineer, he is fascinated with the ability of humankind to develop a better future via the use of technology. With 30 years of experience in the stock market, he is invested in Tesla [TSLA], as well as some other tech companies, for the long term.

    VW have software issues, but they don't appear to be the make the car unusable kind, again, the missing software on the ID.3 is Android Auto/Car Play some of the fancier AR features, and over the air updates. It's hardly a car destroying list of missing features.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    Lumen wrote: »
    There's a long piece here which gives some hints of what's going on.

    https://cleantechnica.com/2020/06/15/volkswagen-where-are-you-going/


    Cleantechnica along with a number of those websites have shares in Tesla. Anything non Tesla gets bad press and anything Tesla is incredible and never done before.



    So unfortuneatly this websites are not a good source of information.



    THe biggest compliment these websites have given VW is they spend their entire time trying to bad mouth VW at every turn. The reason, well a good VW is bad for Tesla and its share price.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,627 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    liamog wrote: »
    I don't trust that author, he's overly critical of German automakers and noticeably pro Tesla.
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Cleantechnica along with a number of those websites have shares in Tesla

    Good points, it is quite difficult to get objective reporting on EVs.

    I guess we'll have to wait and see what the quality is like. I trust nothing and nobody!


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    I've not seen them in the flesh (few have) but the interior/drivers dash on the ID3 looks horrendous to me. Bit fisher price.

    Have you seen the Tesla? I've Tonka trucks here with better interiors.
    As for reliability I think this says it all "Tesla are basically crap"

    Isn't the 1st out of the equation I thought they were sold out, leaves the plus and Max which are another 7/14k more expensive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    Interesting replies :).

    Just imagine these four were all available now, all approximately the same price, a six year old Model S, a one year old Model 3, a year old eNiro/eSoul or brand spanking new ID.3 1st.

    So we're ruling out price here, & availability, & warranty, & possible issues with software etc.

    If you could have one of the four, all things being equal, would you still go for the Tesla?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    If it wasn't for the wonky looks I think the eSoul is the coolest car of them all and has nice extras. The shape doesn't suit European buyers tastes though it's designed for the American market.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    Kramer wrote: »
    Interesting replies :).

    Just imagine these four were all available now, all approximately the same price, a six year old Model S, a one year old Model 3, a year old eNiro/eSoul or brand spanking new ID.3 1st.

    So we're ruling out price here, & availability, & warranty, & possible issues with software etc.

    If you could have one of the four, all things being equal, would you still go for the Tesla?


    Personally I wouldn't go Tesla.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    Those who voted for the ID.3, would you chose a Model 3 instead if a 201 plated, almost new etc. was available for practically the same money?

    Or is the hatchback the deciding factor here?
    Happy to sacrifice Tesla's supercharger network (poor as it is here!),very fast charging, tech & size for the smaller ID.3, because it's a hatch & VW?

    Or......does everyone still aspire to a Tesla?

    :).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    Kramer wrote: »
    Those who voted for the ID.3, would you chose a Model 3 instead if a 201 plated, almost new etc. was available for practically the same money?

    Or is the hatchback the deciding factor here?
    Happy to sacrifice Tesla's supercharger network (poor as it is here!),very fast charging, tech & size for the smaller ID.3, because it's a hatch & VW?

    Or......does everyone still aspire to a Tesla?

    :).


    Do people aspire to a Tesla?


    Personally I would aspire to an Audi E-Tron. If not looking at supercars etc of course


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    Hoping a Panamera Grand Tourismo Sport Hybrid is within price range when the ID3 is 3yrs old, Aspire to a Tesla, lol.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭ AmberGold


    Model 3 is the way to go here, best tech, CCS charging, & supercharger network. I’ve seen a few pop up in the UK for ok money.

    The Model S is a fantastic car, it didn’t win the “Best Car Ever” award for nothing. Would you be comfortable dropping 40k on a car without warranty?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    AmberGold wrote: »
    Model 3 is the way to go here, best tech, CCS charging, & supercharger network. I’ve seen a few pop up in the UK for ok money.

    The Model S is a fantastic car, it didn’t win the “Best Car Ever” award for nothing. Would you be comfortable dropping 40k on a car without warranty?


    Sorry but how the f**k can you win a best car ever award?


    What happens if they release a Model 3 v1.1. Doesn't that win "Best car ever ever" award? :P


    That sound like an award you get at those teen magazines. Like Best song ever in the World which goes to Justin Bieber :P


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 59,729 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Kramer wrote: »
    Those who voted for the ID.3, would you chose a Model 3 instead if a 201 plated, almost new etc. was available for practically the same money?

    It's not though, is it?

    ID.3 is EUR34k brand new
    Cheapest Model 3 second hand in this country I can imaging is more like EUR44k

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,233 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    It's hard to pick between the cars, because they are each in a different market segment.
    People choose cars based on more than just rank in a price list.

    Personally I like small hatches, none of the above really fit the bill.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭ AmberGold


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Sorry but how the f**k can you win a best car ever award?


    What happens if they release a Model 3 v1.1. Doesn't that win "Best car ever ever" award? :P


    That sound like an award you get at those teen magazines. Like Best song ever in the World which goes to Justin Bieber :P

    Waiting in the long grass to pounce 😄 we all know these awards are BS. Here it is anyway..

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/thedriven.io/2019/07/12/tesla-model-s-wins-ultimate-accolade-as-best-car-in-70-years/amp/

    No denying it though it’s a great car, love the e golf as well having bought one for my father.

    In the OP’s situation the 3 is the one at the right money.


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