Doctor shopping

mr_fegelien

Is this practice legal in Ireland? For those who don't know, it's where an individual visits many GP's and obtains many prescriptions for controlled medicines (benzos, opiates, stimulants) and then goes to fill them in different pharmacies essentially building up a stockpile.

Assuming you're not selling these medicines or diverting them to another person, is it legal? Can you have 10000 xanax tablets for your own use or is that against the law?

I know in places like the States and Australia, they have a prescription tracking programme which quickly puts a stop to this type of behavior but I'm not aware of such a system existing in this country. Maybe I'm wrong.

drunkmonkey

Not sure if legal but I know people who make a career out of it, selling or swapping drugs which is illegal. The whole health care system is a mess, there's no joined up thinking.

Credit Checker Moose

If they are private prescriptions there would be zero tracking.

Clinics and pharmacists are vigilant when new patients attend looking for the medications you referred to. We call it script surfing, a pattern is noted when a new patient arrives requesting them and we occasionally get calls from pharmacists if they see different clinicians names on scripts. You might be able to do it for a brief period, but once it becomes apparent what you are doing, the scripts stopped being given.

If you are getting scripts on Med card or under DPS, the scripts are noted in a database.

coylemj

Dav010 wrote: »

Clinics and pharmacists are vigilant when new patients attend looking for the medications you referred to. We call it script surfing, a pattern is noted when a new patient arrives requesting them and we occasionally get calls from pharmacists if they see different clinicians names on scripts.

That's fine if he's stupid enough to take all his prescriptions to the one pharmacy.

When you say 'we occasionally get calls from pharmacists ' ..... who is 'we' (GP/HSE) in that sentence?

Dav010 wrote: »

If you are getting scripts on Med card or under DPS, the scripts are noted in a database.

If he has a medical card then he has to stick with one medical practice so obviously he can't do what he's suggesting. And as for the DPS scheme, all he has to do is say he's a visitor from the UK and can't claim a refund so he won't give a PPS number to the chemist.

If he manages to get multiple GP practices to accept him as a private patient and he brings the prescriptions to multiple pharmacies, there's no reason that I can see why he can't do as he's suggesting.

coylemj

coylemj wrote: »

That's fine if he's stupid enough to take all his prescriptions to the one pharmacy.

When you say 'we occasionally get calls from pharmacists ' ..... who is 'we' (GP/HSE) in that sentence?



If he has a medical card then he has to stick with one doctor so obviously he can't do what he's suggesting. And as for the DPS scheme, all he has to do is say he's a visitor from the UK and can't claim a refund so he won't give a PPS number to the chemist.

If he manages to get multiple GP practices to accept him as a private patient and he brings the prescriptions to multiple pharmacies, there's no reason that I can see why he can't do as he's suggesting.

“We” is the Clinic I own and the Doctors/Dentists who work there.

Coylemj, do you think Clinicians/Pharmacists aren’t used to patients who appear at the Clinic looking for these types of medications? I don’t know if you are a solicitor, but with experience, doesn’t intuition prompt you to ask questions when you feel something isn’t right about what your client is telling you?

L1011

A pharmacist seeing someone turn up claiming to be from the UK and with a script for benzos/opiods is going to be more than a little suspicious; particularly if they do so continually. There are only so many pharmacies also.

coylemj

Dav010 wrote: »

Coylemj, do you think Clinicians/Pharmacists aren’t used to patients who appear at the Clinic looking for these types of medications?

Sorry, I was simply dealing with the theory of what the OP was asking, not the practicalities of the situation. Obviously if the GP has their suspicisions, they can refuse the request.

Dav010 wrote: »

I don’t know if you are a solicitor, but with experience, doesn’t intuition prompt you to ask questions when you feel something isn’t right about what your client is telling you?

I'm not a solicitor but you can't compare the relationship of doctor/patient to that of solicitor/client. If a solicitor has a client who is up on a criminal charge and the client puts forward a highly improbable defence, the solicitor has pretty much no option but to followng the instructions from his client and present this as a defence in court. In other words, a solicitor is not an arbiter of fact in the same way that a doctor is. So if a patient asks a doctor to prescribe a specific drug, the doctor has every right to refuse outright.

coylemj

coylemj wrote: »

Sorry, I was simply dealing with the theory of what the OP was asking, not the practicalities of the situation. Obviously if the GP has their suspicisions, they can refuse the request.



I'm not a solicitor but you can't compare the relationship of doctor/patient to that of solicitor/client. If a solicitor has a client who is up on a criminal charge and the client puts forward a highly improbable defence, the solicitor has pretty much no option but to followng the instructions from his client and present this as a defence in court. In other words, a solicitor is not an arbiter of fact in the same way that a doctor is. So if a patient asks a doctor to prescribe a specific drug, the doctor has every right to refuse outright.

Very true, I’m sorry for using a poor analogy, but I assume a solicitor can decline to represent a client they suspect is being untruthful or fraudulent. My post was more about experience and intuition. a GP will not just write a script for opiates without questioning the patient in depth about their condition and history. It is not easy to do what the op is proposing when compared to say, getting a script for an antibiotic or salbutamol.

coylemj

Dav010 wrote: »

.... I assume a solicitor can decline to represent a client they suspect is being untruthful or fraudulent.

An awful lot of defendants would find it difficult to get legal representation if that was the case.

Look at the cases where in certain district courts, a procession of defendants got into the witness box and swore on the bible that they never got the speeding ticket in the post. A lot of the judges publicly branded them as liars while dismissing the cases against them. Did any local solicitor refuse to take any of them on as client?

Everyone is entitled to be represented, it's the solicitor's job to make the best case with what he has.

afkasurfjunkie

2 week wait and €50 to see the GP here (pre-covid). So no, you’re grand thanks.

JustAThought

OP - the customer would have to pay per visit to each doctor - e60 to e80 per visit, for new patients some doctors charge more as they have to take a full history. Then as they are not using a single pharmacy for their perscription to be filled - ie not registered in one pharmacy - they will not be able to avail of the e200 (or whatever it is now) ‘threshold’ for perscriptions per month - so it is going to start getting quite expensive for them.

Sounds like a premise put forward using the uk model where doctors visits and perscriptions are free - here on the medical card you have to stick with one doctor or clinic and one pharmacy so you will be quickly found out.

John Hutton

What tends to happen is that a person may have a genuine condition but goes to multiple GPs and regularly collects their regular prescription of whatever your having from multiple pharmacies.

So its not the case of a random person turning up for a pile of pills but rather John with the bad back collecting his regular prescription in 5 different pharmacies

mr_fegelien

To be fair, I don't think this is much of a problem in Ireland given how extremely reluctant GP's/psychiatrists are to hand out benzos/opioids. The reason why America developed a prescription tracking programme was a patients getting huge amounts of opioids from doctors and filling them at ever pharmacy they could find to abuse them/sell them

Here it would be hard to find a doctor to fill these medicines so there's not as much risk of someone being able to stockpile.