Did the estate agent enter without permission?

Macytoby

I moved to a new apartment recently and my lease on the old one isn’t up for another week.

Last week the estate agent had informed that they had organised viewings for Thursday after 5pm and I had given them permission to have them on that date. Since I don’t live there, I told them that they could let themselves in in order to show the apartment. They didn’t have a set of keys so I helped them out by posting a set to them.

I received an email today outlining that they had carried out an inspection yesterday. I’ve pulled them up on it this afternoon and they argue that since I wasn’t living there, they didn’t need permission. Is this the case?

What’s your issue here?

Xterminator

you gave them keys and permission to enter. not sure what your point is? Do you dispute the inspection findings?

Macytoby

Xterminator wrote: »

you gave them keys and permission to enter. not sure what your point is? Do you dispute the inspection findings?

I gave them permission to enter on Thursday, not yesterday. Permission surely isn’t on a ticketed basis? By that logic, they could land at anytime once you’ve given them permission at some point.

Macytoby

Dav010 wrote: »

What’s your issue here?

The issue is I have them permission to enter the premises on Thursday. They then proceeded to enter it on Monday without first clearing it with me.

awec

What are you looking out of this OP?

You've already moved out and you hand the keys back in a week, presumably looking your deposit back, so unless there was something really egregious like photos of yourself naked strewn across the kitchen table I'd just forget about it and move on. No point causing a fuss at this stage over nothing.

Redtapedyeti

I gotta disagree with everybody. Regardless if OP has an issue or not, the law was clearly broken here. The same rules apply until the end of your tenancy, regardless if you live there or not. Unless you explicitly stated that an inspection could be carried out on a specific day, an estate agent or landlord entering the property is illegal.

Macytoby

awec wrote: »

What are you looking out of this OP?

You've already moved out and you hand the keys back in a week, presumably looking your deposit back, so unless there was something really egregious like photos of yourself naked strewn across the kitchen table I'd just forget about it and move on. No point causing a fuss at this stage over nothing.

Who said I was looking for anything? I just asked a simple question, was it allowed or not.

Truckermal

Get over it!!! If it bothers you that much why did you give them the keys?

awec

Macytoby wrote: »

Who said I was looking for anything? I just asked a simple question, was it allowed or not.

Probably not by the letter of the law.

Macytoby

Truckermal wrote: »

Get over it!!! If it bothers you that much why did you give them the keys?

Because they didn’t have a set of keys to show the apartment.

Redtapedyeti

Macytoby wrote: »

Because they didn’t have a set of keys to show the apartment.

What sort of estate agent doesn’t have a set of keys?

MacDanger

Macytoby wrote: »

Who said I was looking for anything? I just asked a simple question, was it allowed or not.

I'd say not. They need permission to enter and they didn't request it for that day

Allinall

Redtapedyeti wrote: »

What sort of estate agent doesn’t have a set of keys?

All of them, until they're given a set.

OP. No, they weren't allowed enter on the second occasion without your say so.

So, op. What are you going to do about there unlawful entry or is it just a case of venting?

Macytoby

SouthWesterly wrote: »

So, op. What are you going to do about there unlawful entry or is it just a case of venting?

Not even venting, I just wanted to know the legality of it.

StackSteevens

Do you want your deposit back?

Macytoby

Macytoby wrote: »

Not even venting, I just wanted to know the legality of it.

By doing the inspection a week before lease ends, you should get your deposit back more quickly, or, have the opportunity to rectify anything they found wrong during the inspection before the lease ends. You have moved out, gave them your keys, what is your gripe here?

Macytoby

Dav010 wrote: »

By doing the inspection a week before lease ends, you should get your deposit back more quickly, or, have the opportunity to rectify anything they found wrong during the inspection before the lease ends. You have moved out, gave them your keys, what is your gripe here?

Jesus Christ, how many times do I have to say it, I don’t have a ****ing gripe. It was a simple question with a binary answer: yes or no

Deebles McBeebles

Macytoby wrote: »

Jesus Christ, how many times do I have to say it, I don’t have a ****ing gripe. It was a simple question with a binary answer: yes or no

Welcome to the accommodation forum. Some can't answer a simple question without betraying what side of the landlord/tenant divide they reside in.

Its definitely not ok but what you can realistically do about it I don't know. Get your deposit and try use another estate agent in future.

TheBoyConor

What is the point of calling them up on it?

Even if it is illegal, you were not living there, and as such you did not suffer any sort of loss by them entering without your explicit permission for that day.

Judge would throw that right out. if you are suing, then you need to prove that you suffered some sort of loss. You did not. End of.

Move on with your life.

Allinall

TheBoyConor wrote: »

What is the point of calling them up on it?

Even if it is illegal, you were not living there, and as such you did not suffer any sort of loss by them entering without your explicit permission for that day.

Judge would throw that right out. if you are suing, then you need to prove that you suffered some sort of loss. You did not. End of.

Move on with your life.

Bloody hell!

You are the only one in the thread that has mentioned judges, court, loss.

Talk about answering a question that was never asked.

Macytoby

Allinall wrote: »

Bloody hell!

You are the only one in the thread that has mentioned judges, court, loss.

Talk about answering a question that was never asked.

I get the feeling most people aren’t reading what I actually asked...

You indicated that you have vacated and no longer live there so they are entitled to do as they please.

If they had their own keys they would not even be contacting you and could even have someone else moved in if they wished as you by your own admission no longer live there.

Redtapedyeti

Zainab Purring Wheat wrote: »

You indicated that you have vacated and no longer live there so they are entitled to do as they please.

Completely wrong. OP still has a lease, therefore the same laws apply.

touts

I'm really at a loss here. What's your objective in this complaint? I can only see two possible objectives:

- Get compo for a potentially illegal entry so you can have a proper housewarming for the new gaff?
- Get some junior staff member of the Estate agent fired so you can feel powerful on an otherwise quite Tuesday afternoon?

Just get over yourself and let it go.

Redtapedyeti

Zainab Purring Wheat wrote: »

If they had their own keys they would not even be contacting you and could even have someone else moved in if they wished as you by your own admission no longer live there.

Again, this is completely illegal.

Uncle Pierre

I understand that OP just asked a simple yes/no question, but I don't understand the reason for already "pulling them up on it", or for asking the question here to check the validity of the response received when pulling them up on it.

Think others don't understand either, and it seems fair enough to ask...

Allinall

touts wrote: »

I'm really at a loss here. What's your objective in this complaint? I can only see two possible objectives:

- Get compo for a potentially illegal entry so you can have a proper housewarming for the new gaff?
- Get some junior staff member of the Estate agent fired so you can feel powerful on an otherwise quite Tuesday afternoon?

Just get over yourself and let it go.

Another that cannot read the OP.

Where did the OP mention a complaint?

StackSteevens

Macytoby wrote: »

I get the feeling most people aren’t reading what I actually asked...

Be honest - you knew what the answer was before you ever asked the question!

You just wanted to be reassured before you gave the EA a good b0llocking, which is fair enough!

Nonetheless, unless you've a massive gripe with the LL and/or EA why not just let it go?

Bubbaclaus

Zainab Purring Wheat wrote: »

You indicated that you have vacated and no longer live there so they are entitled to do as they please.

If they had their own keys they would not even be contacting you and could even have someone else moved in if they wished as you by your own admission no longer live there.

I'm beginning to think you deliberately just make things up on here, since I have never seen you saying something that was correct.

touts

Allinall wrote: »

Another that cannot read the OP.

Where did the OP mention a complaint?

Do you honestly believe the OP is asking this purely to satisfy curiosity?

Allinall

touts wrote: »

Do you honestly believe the OP is asking this purely to satisfy curiosity?

Yes, why wouldn't I, as they have stated it on a number of occasions in the thread.

Are you calling them a liar?

marieholmfan

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I'm beginning to think you deliberately just make things up on here, since I have never seen you saying something that was correct.

It's a little odd how the provision of inaccurate information goes unsanctioned on this forum despite the fact that moderator Graham is in fact extremely knowledgeable on the whole area.

mrslancaster

Redtapedyeti wrote: »

Completely wrong. OP still has a lease, therefore the same laws apply.

Was the lease not ended by the OP when they moved out and handed the keys back to the estate agent?

Bubbaclaus

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I'm beginning to think you deliberately just make things up on here, since I have never seen you saying something that was correct.

By moving out and handing back the keys the lease is over simple as that.

If someone has a lease with 6 months remaining on paper and just decides to move out and indicates to the LL they have moved out and hand back the keys do you expect the LL to leave the place empty for 6 months as there is some bit of paper with dates on it?

Macytoby

Zainab Purring Wheat wrote: »

By moving out and handing back the keys the lease is over simple as that.

If someone has a lease with 6 months remaining on paper and just decides to move out and indicates to the LL they have moved out and hand back the keys do you expect the LL to leave the place empty for 6 months as there is some bit of paper with dates on it?

If it’s paid for 6 months yes. In my case I’ve paid for 5 more days.

Caranica

Macytoby wrote: »

If it’s paid for 6 months yes. In my case I’ve paid for 5 more days.

But you have no keys to access the place? What is the difference between the agent doing an inspection yesterday or in 6 days time?

You're entitled to "peaceful enjoyment" of the property for the duration of your lease but if you cannot possibly do so I don't see the problem.

Personally I wouldn't have permitted viewings while your lease was active, the complicating factor here is that you gave your keys to the agent. If they'd used their own it would have been clear cut that they were in the wrong.

Macytoby

Caranica wrote: »

But you have no keys to access the place? What is the difference between the agent doing an inspection yesterday or in 6 days time?

You're entitled to "peaceful enjoyment" of the property for the duration of your lease but if you cannot possibly do so I don't see the problem.

Personally I wouldn't have permitted viewings while your lease was active, the complicating factor here is that you gave your keys to the agent. If they'd used their own it would have been clear cut that they were in the wrong.

I still have a set of keys, I gave them a spare set so they could access for viewings.

Macytoby

Macytoby wrote: »

I still have a set of keys, I gave them a spare set so they could access for viewings.

To be fair, if that was included in the op, some of the replies that annoy you would not have been posted. Your op reads like you had abandoned the property before your lease ended.

touts

Allinall wrote: »

Yes, why wouldn't I, as they have stated it on a number of occasions in the thread.

Are you calling them a liar?

Nope. Just questioning a motivation they have not revealed. Not revealing something is not the same as being a liar.

On the other hand when it comes to Marxist agitators who seek to talk naive OPs into courses of actions that do not serve the interests of the OP but do serve the dissatisfaction and unrest objectives of the agitator's party. Well those individuals I have no hesitation calling liars.

the_syco

Macytoby wrote: »

Since I don’t live there, I told them that they could let themselves in in order to show the apartment.

Macytoby wrote: »

Is this the case?

Look at it another way; if there's any reason that they don't give you back your deposit, you can say that the place was fine before they let themselves in multiple times.

Also, the first quote above does seem to say that they could let themselves in as you don't live there anymore.

Another way to word that would be; you left the house, handed back the keys and thus voluntarily terminated the lease early.

Xterminator

Hi OP

Perhaps its difficult to help you here. Taken at your word that is what you are seeking, a opinion as to whether someones actions were legal. Yet most people on a public forum are not qualified to give a legal opinion. In addition full facts are not in evidence, e.g. what you said, any correspondence etc. and their side. These would be needed to form a legal opinion.

Jaywalking is illegal in Ireland as is cycling on the pavement. So too may be agents assuming your permission to enter the premises on one day, and surrendering a set of keys, (and possibly advising them you have left?) can be extended to entering the empty premises on another day, to assess conditions.

That the result of this visit could benefit you, IE give you time to remedy any faults found, and issue a deposit refund quicker than would otherwise be possible. And benefit them by hopefully managing to lease the property quicker, is only pertinent if you were to seek remedy legally.

Certainly the spread of opinion shows that the issue is not back and white, and i would not not be surprised if even legal professionals had differing interpretations of what happened.