property area calculation, buying & selling

1874

I searched in this forum and am not clear still, what is the area of a property considered, 2 old posts imo arent clear.
Im not sure what calculation to do to compare my property area to houses Id be interested in and Im not clear what sellers are using.
I thought measure, external length by width and take account (ie add) for external protrusions, which in my case is an extension built with the property.

Ive read external measurement and then internal wall to wall measurement, which is standard?

1874

anyone?

Graham

Irish properties are rarely priced by the metre.

Comparable properties in the same locale are probably the most common indicator.

macplaxton

Graham wrote: »

Irish properties are rarely priced by the metre.

I didn't read that as the question.

How do you compare how big somewhere is if there isn't a convention on measurements?

The property I rent is approx 78 sq.m. Although at some stage I'm sure it showed the sq.m. on the register and it was down as 95 sq. m. (incl. the loft conversion). Although I've seen those locally for sale with loft conversions not included in the sq m. for I assumed reasons of official habitability.

So my thoughts are its total internal area of the bits that are classed as liveable and not storage/etc.

Claw Hammer

macplaxton wrote: »

I didn't read that as the question.

How do you compare how big somewhere is if there isn't a convention on measurements?

The property I rent is approx 78 sq.m. Although at some stage I'm sure it showed the sq.m. on the register and it was down as 95 sq. m. (incl. the loft conversion). Although I've seen those locally for sale with loft conversions not included in the sq m. for I assumed reasons of official habitability.

So my thoughts are its total internal area of the bits that are classed as liveable and not storage/etc.

In theory it is supposed to be the internal area measured from the centre of the external walls. the problem is that using the bleeps, the measuremets are going to be internal wall to internal wall.
If you are given a set of measurements it is impossible to know how they were obtained so you will have to measure the property yourself so that you know what you are buying.
It is impossible to make comparisons unless you have personally measured the properties.

sydthebeat

while there no convention as to how to exactly measure floor area when advertising a unit for sale.... there is a specific convention if you require floor area to be certified

4. (a) For the purposes of section 91A(1)(b)(i)(I) of the Act, the total floor area of a house is its gross floor area measured inside the finished external walls including the areas specified in sub-article (b) and excluding the areas specified in sub-article (c).

(b) The following shall be included in calculating the total floor area of the house:

(i) all internal walls, partitions, chimney breasts and the stairwell on each floor;

(ii) all areas within the external walls which are capable of being converted into habitable space, even if there is not direct access from them to the dwelling, irrespective of their state of finish;

(iii) areas that could be described as “utility room”, “workshop”, “lobby”, “store” or “office”;

(iv) areas behind mock walls or partitions where sufficient height exists to provide a room;

(v) areas where flooring has been temporarily omitted;

(vi) closed glazed porches or conservatories; and;

(vii) any rooms or areas of rooms which do not meet the required ceiling heights.

(c) The following areas shall be excluded in calculating the total floor area of the house:

(i) fully detached garages, carports and outoffices;

(ii) a garage (or carport) attached to or forming part of the house, providing it:

(I) is suitable for use as a garage and not intended or designed, having regard to the layout and finish of the garage and the house, to be further developed as part of the habitable area of the house;

(II) complies with the fire safety standards required by the Building Regulations;

(III) has provision for not more than two windows;

(IV) does not have a fireplace opening, or is not capable of having a fireplace; and;

(V) has a vehicular entrance normally from the front except where a front entrance is not possible due to the restricted nature of the site or special design or other considerations;

(iii) an attic where no development works, such as stud partitioning or fixed stairway, have been carried out and which is not intended or designed, having regard to its layout and finish, to be further developed as part of the habitable area of the house (provided that it may, however, be floored for storage purposes and have not more than three windows or roof-lights);

(iv) a basement where no development works, other than those which are strictly necessary to secure the structural stability of the house, have been carried out and which is not intended or designed, having regard to its layout and finish, to be further developed as part of the habitable area of the house;

(v) a boiler house/fuel store with external access only and a floor area of not more than 4 square metres;

(vi) small open porches; and

(vii) common areas in multi-dwelling buildings.

from here
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/si/128/made/en/print

Reversal

Only this morning I saw a house on daft, with the lean to included in the floor area. Couple of sheets of plastic fixed to an external wall, and the house gets 20% bigger apparently

dubrov

I had thought the standard for estate agents was to measure the surface area of each floor and subtract the surface area of the external walls. So all internal walls are included.

If course some estate agents are fairly liberal with this method and always seem to err on the upside

Claw Hammer

sydthebeat wrote: »

while there no convention as to how to exactly measure floor area when advertising a unit for sale.... there is a specific convention if you require floor area to be certified



from here
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/si/128/made/en/print

That is the floor area for the purpose of stamp duty.
At one time stamp duty was payable on new properties over a certain floor area and not payable at all under that area. There were all kinds of attempts to bring down the floor area for stamp duty and get it up for re-sale, eg fully insulated and integrated garages which wold be converted immediately after the sale.

That method can't be implied to be mandatory in other contexts.

macplaxton

Thanks for the last few posts. So there isn't a set method as such, others play fast and loose with any methods that are used in certain circumstances and if you really want to know then measure it yourself!

Gives me some idea anyway for future reference. Hope it does for the OP.

Gumbo

Floor area is the measurement within all the external walls.

None of this crap about the center line of external walls etc

Any other figure is BS.

Darc19

If your house was built in the last 20 years or so, the planning file will be available online and the gross internal area will either be stated on the Planning application or can be calculated from the drawings.

It will give you a good idea of size.


Another option is to see the details of similar houses that have sold recently. Many details stay online for months afterwards. Check propertypriceregister.ie for any sales, then put the exact address into Google and the pdf brochure of the property will probably show.

Victor

There have been various standards over the years for various purposes.

Construction costs are generally based on Gross Enclosed Floor Area - that is from the internal face of external walls and measured across internal walls.

Traditionally, estate agents have used 'carpet area' (regardless if carpet is used or not) - that is measured between the faces of the skirting boards.

However, measurements on estate agents' are typically the longest dimension in a room. This OK for square / rectangular rooms, but exaggerates the floor area for L- and U-shaped rooms.

Then there is the matter of numeracy. Some friends were buying a house. One bedroom was claimed to be 49 metres long. The floor area was overstated by about 16m2, as it included a balcony, boiler house and shed,

Also look at the area on the BER certificate, but don't trust it.

JohnnyChimpo

Victor wrote: »

One bedroom was claimed to be 49 metres long.

Would love to be able to practice taking free kicks in my bedroom

Charlie-Bravo

There's is guidance from the SCSI on measuring properties.

https://www.scsi.ie › viewPDF
Measuring Practice: Guidance Notes - Society of Chartered Surveyors

Eventually there'll be an IPMS standard for residential buildings (I think it's still in draft format at the moment). There is a published IPMS office version for the commercial sector.

In any event, for residential, the agents should give clear information on the gross internal area. Yes, it would be nice to have extensions and conversions separated out IF they're not complying with building regs, or any other part which isn't integral to the building.

1874

ok, after all that, it seems inconclusive to me, I just wanted to compare my property size to ones advertised for sale that Id look at to see if they were larger or not.
If there was a standard measurement for domestic dwellings, it would make comparision easier, and from what Ive noticed, unlike the last time I looked, most properties now either seem to be in metres squared or not given, I can only recal one in sq feet, I'll get the tape measure out and measure external corner to corner/mid point of party wall as Im hazarding a guess sellers will do likewise to maximise.