Centerfire Handguns

Munsterlad102

Hello, I was wondering is it still possible to license a centrefire handgun or is there a blanket ban on all license applications? I was reading about judges overturning a number of bans by chief supers for licensing a number of centrefire handguns and it mentioned that the super denied that there a blanket ban on all such applications. Is there some legal technicality that the super has to technically not have a blanket ban but realistically refuse all applications? It’s just this denial really confused me. I’ve also read that you can’t license handguns over .22lr so I’m not sure what to believe. Any insight would be helpful, thanks.

solarwinds

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

Hello, I was wondering is it still possible to license a centrefire handgun or is there a blanket ban on all license applications? I was reading about judges overturning a number of bans by chief supers for licensing a number of centrefire handguns and it mentioned that the super denied that there a blanket ban on all such applications. Is there some legal technicality that the super has to technically not have a blanket ban but realistically refuse all applications? It’s just this denial really confused me. I’ve also read that you can’t license handguns over .22lr so I’m not sure what to believe. Any insight would be helpful, thanks.

No new CF licences will be granted but you can licence .22RF handguns.

Grizzly 45

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

Hello, I was wondering is it still possible to license a centrefire handgun or is there a blanket ban on all license applications

?

Short answer Yes and No
Yes if you had a liscense previous to Nov 2008,you can still liscense such. However it is a Grandfathering clause,so you are pretty much stuck with what you owned then,and once you die or otherwise lose the liscense. Thats it.
Even your next of kin cant inherit the gun.Contary to many Irish and EU constitutional laws.But as we have seen recently,rhey are "flexible concepts":rolleyes:

NO you cannot liscense any post Nov 2008 and there is no "blanket ban" per se.All liscenses must be reviewed on an individual basis. A few Cheif Supers found that out the hard way in 2009 and 10,when it was discoverd in the high court that they were being rather naughty on this topic.They all "retired" early for some odd reason after this came out in court.:rolleyes:

I was reading about judges overturning a number of bans by chief supers for licensing a number of centrefire handguns and it mentioned that the super denied that there a blanket ban on all such applications

.

See above answer.

Is there some legal technicality that the super has to technically not have a blanket ban but realistically refuse all applications? It’s just this denial really confused me.

Nope,just a bunch of CS conspiring to interpert the law as they saw fit to suit their policies and biases or at Govt and departmental behest. The denial is what is commonly called in law" a tissue of lies".It was proven in the HC that there was a conspircy to create a blanket ban in certain districts of issuing handguns. Hence the strange early "retirements" of people still in their prime career years.

I’ve also read that you can’t license handguns over .22lr so I’m not sure what to believe. Any insight would be helpful, thanks

Correct...Unless you had a liscense pre-Nov 2008,you will not get.:(

Munsterlad102

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

?

Short answer Yes and No
Yes if you had a liscense previous to Nov 2008,you can still liscense such. However it is a Grandfathering clause,so you are pretty much stuck with what you owned then,and once you die or otherwise lose the liscense. Thats it.
Even your next of kin cant inherit the gun.Contary to many Irish and EU constitutional laws.But as we have seen recently,rhey are "flexible concepts":rolleyes:

NO you cannot liscense any post Nov 2008 and there is no "blanket ban" per se.All liscenses must be reviewed on an individual basis. A few Cheif Supers found that out the hard way in 2009 and 10,when it was discoverd in the high court that they were being rather naughty on this topic.They all "retired" early for some odd reason after this came out in court.:rolleyes:


.

See above answer.



Nope,just a bunch of CS conspiring to interpert the law as they saw fit to suit their policies and biases or at Govt and departmental behest. The denial is what is commonly called in law" a tissue of lies".It was proven in the HC that there was a conspircy to create a blanket ban in certain districts of issuing handguns. Hence the strange early "retirements" of people still in their prime career years.




Correct...Unless you had a liscense pre-Nov 2008,you will not get.:(

Just to clarify, if cases are on a case by case basis and there is no blanket ban, then can I, someone who doesn’t own a centrefire handgun, get one for target shooting. Sorry if I sound like I’m repeating myself, it’s just that I’m a little bit confused. Was there any legislation passed that banned CF handguns? I heard that there was some legislation in 2009 targeting handguns, but legally speaking, is it impossible for me to get a CF handgun? Also why did the chief supers resign for trying to implement a blanket ban, don’t they have control over the licensing for restricted firearms? All this legislation and case law has really gotten me confused, apologies about that.

Grizzly 45

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Just to clarify, if cases are on a case by case basis and there is no blanket ban, then can I, someone who doesn’t own a centrefire handgun, get one for target shooting

.

Did you have one before Nov 2008??? Then NO!

Sorry if I sound like I’m repeating myself, it’s just that I’m a little bit confused. Was there any legislation passed that banned CF handguns?

Criminal justice misc provisions act 2006/08 has a a whole section on firearms legislation on this.

I heard that there was some legislation in 2009 targeting handguns, but legally speaking, is it impossible for me to get a CF handgun

?

2008.And YES it is impossible now unless you had a liscense pre Nov 2008.END OF!

Also why did the chief supers resign for trying to implement a blanket ban, don’t they have control over the licensing for restricted firearms? All this legislation and case law has really gotten me confused, apologies about that.[

They did not resign they "retired" Totally different thing. Resignation implies a an action for incompetence or guilt or negligence under someones watch and command. Retirement could be for a myriad of reasons, PTSD,ill health,change of career,whatever.:rolleyes:.You retire you are not admitting responsibility for your actions,and you can claim the "stress " of the job made you make bad decisions like this if pushed.

They were caught conspiring to creat blanket bans in their respective districts CONTARY to the firearms acts that state All individual liscense applications must be considerd on an individual case by case on their merits.Very silly sending everyone a refusal letter that was almost word and paragraph and sentence structure the same in I belive three different districts?which was forensically examined and proven so in court.

And NO AGS does not controlthe legislation regarding firearms.That power rests in Dail Eireinn and in any legislation passed by that august body.

Boil it down to this ..NO you CANNOT have or liscense a new handgun here under the current legislation.

Cass

The short answer you're looking for is no, you cannot own/license a centrefire handgun. There is no blanket ban as there does not need to be one, the legislation bans them.

The longer answer is that no new licenses for centrefire handguns will be issued. So its not the gun that is banned its the license(s) for them (which is essentially the same thing as banning the guns).

This comes from the 2009 Criminal Justice Miscellaneous provisions act, coupled with SI 21/2008 & SI 337/2009.

It also bans the licensing of any handgun that uses anything other than .22lr ammunition, so that is the only caliber of handgun you can have.

It also bans the licensing of a .22lr handgun that has a magazine capable of holding more than 5 rounds, so any semi auto handgun must be restricted to hold no more than 5 rounds and any revolver must also be plugged to hold only 5 rounds.

Richard308

Cass wrote: »

The short answer you're looking for is no, you cannot own/license a centrefire handgun. There is no blanket ban as there does not need to be one, the legislation bans them.

The longer answer is that no new licenses for centrefire handguns will be issued. So its not the gun that is banned its the license(s) for them (which is essentially the same thing as banning the guns).

This comes from the 2009 Criminal Justice Miscellaneous provisions act, coupled with SI 21/2008 & SI 337/2009.

It also bans the licensing of any handgun that uses anything other than .22lr ammunition, so that is the only caliber of handgun you can have.

It also bans the licensing of a .22lr handgun that has a magazine capable of holding more than 5 rounds, so any semi auto handgun must be restricted to hold no more than 5 rounds and any revolver must also be plugged to hold only 5 rounds.

Is it definitely only 22lr? I haven’t read the act, just know some pretty sweet pistols using the 17hmr and 22wmr. Was hoping it was rimfire

Munsterlad102

Cass wrote: »

The short answer you're looking for is no, you cannot own/license a centrefire handgun. There is no blanket ban as there does not need to be one, the legislation bans them.

The longer answer is that no new licenses for centrefire handguns will be issued. So its not the gun that is banned its the license(s) for them (which is essentially the same thing as banning the guns).

This comes from the 2009 Criminal Justice Miscellaneous provisions act, coupled with SI 21/2008 & SI 337/2009.

It also bans the licensing of any handgun that uses anything other than .22lr ammunition, so that is the only caliber of handgun you can have.

It also bans the licensing of a .22lr handgun that has a magazine capable of holding more than 5 rounds, so any semi auto handgun must be restricted to hold no more than 5 rounds and any revolver must also be plugged to hold only 5 rounds.

I’ve just had a look at the legislation but it doesn’t mention handgun, but instead it refers to short firearms. So technically could I license a long barreled handgun in 9mm with a barrel over 30cm and an arm brace making it longer than 60cm, like the do in the UK? Would this fix the caliber and magazine limits and would I still be able to use it in competitions?

Cass

Richard308 wrote: »

Is it definitely only 22lr?

Yes.

Section 4(2)(e)(ii) of SI21/2008 says:

(ii) firearms using .22 inch rim-fire percussion ammunition.

Which would have allowed any rimfire pistol, but it was very quickly changed with SI337/2009, section 5 which amends the above section of 21/2008 to now say:

(ii) single shot firearms using 0.22 inch long rifle rim fire percussion ammunition;

It is the insertion of the words "long rifle" which changes the meaning and hence the caliber of the SI to allow allow for 22lr ammo and hence not WMR, HMR, etc.

Richard308

Cass wrote: »

Yes.

Section 4(2)(e)(ii) of SI21/2008 says:


Which would have allowed any rimfire pistol, but it was very quickly changed with SI337/2009, section 5 which amends the above section of 21/2008 to now say:


It is the insertion of the words "long rifle" which changes the meaning and hence the caliber of the SI to allow allow for 22lr ammo and hence not WMR, HMR, etc.

Someone educated them. Unfortunately, be nice to be hitting targets at 50m with a 17hmr

tudderone

Buy a .22 pistol. You can only punch paper with pistols here anyway, and a paper target doesn't know if its been hit by a .22 or a .45.

I had them all, .22, 9mm, .40sw, and a .45acp, had just as much fun with the .22 as any of the others once the novelty of making louder bangs wore off.

If you really have to have a centrefire, head to norn iron an join nitsa. Shoot up there.

Grizzly 45

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

I’ve just had a look at the legislation but it doesn’t mention handgun, but instead it refers to short firearms. So technically could I license a long barreled handgun in 9mm with a barrel over 30cm and an arm brace making it longer than 60cm, like the do in the UK? Would this fix the caliber and magazine limits and would I still be able to use it in competitions?

Just WHY would you want such a thing?
It is neither fish or fowl being a an absolutely ungainly "handgun" with none of the benefits of one, and missing all the benefits of a short carbine and with all the problems of liscensing a restricted firearm? You might as well try applying for a pistol calibre carbine and have somthing ,with just as much paperwork,a lot more fun,and be alot more accurate,in a common caliber of 9mm,and proably easier to justify a good reason for owning?

Cass

Munsterlad102 wrote: »

I’ve just had a look at the legislation but it doesn’t mention handgun, but instead it refers to short firearms.

Yeah, the legislation calls them short firearms.

So technically could I license a long barreled handgun in 9mm with a barrel over 30cm and an arm brace making it longer than 60cm, like the do in the UK?

Interesting concept and one i don't think has ever been done here, but for good reason. As soon as it goes over the maximum barrel length (30cm) and overall length (60cm) its called a rifle, not a handgun. Its then subject to other legislation and then the ability to shoulder the rifle/pistol is no longer an issue.

That being said there are other parts of other legislation that deal with barrel length for rifles. Its illegal to have a rifle with a barrel shorter than 50cm, that is covered under 12(a) of the 1990 offensive weapons act as amended by section 65 of the 2006 act which says:

(b) a rifle to a length of less than 50 centimetres

Would this fix the caliber and magazine limits and would I still be able to use it in competitions?

In short, no.

There is no loopholes or grey areas when it comes to short firearms, or more specifically restricted short firearms. They're gone.

The only glimmer of light is they were banned under an SI which means a Minister can, with the stroke of a pen, make them legal again without the need for new legislation (as such).

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Just WHY would you want such a thing?
It is neither fish or fowl being a an absolutely ungainly "handgun" with none of the benefits of one, and missing all the benefits of a short carbine and with all the problems of liscensing a restricted firearm? You might as well try applying for a pistol calibre carbine and have somthing ,with just as much paperwork,a lot more fun,and be alot more accurate,in a common caliber of 9mm,and proably easier to justify a good reason for owning?

Yup, i know lads in the UK who were pistol shooters until Tony "dodgy dossier" Blair banned them all in 96. They had one look at those stupid long barrel abominations and said to hell with that and bought lever actions in pistol calibres.

One thing i would like to get involved with they have in the UK is Muzzle loading/blackpowder pistols, shouldn't be too threatening to the ptb, but yet nothing has ever happened on that front, getting them legalised. I know you can possess the guns here if they are original muzzleloaders, but shooting them is currently verboten.

Grizzly 45

WHERE would we be without NI??:rolleyes::rolleyes:

kellbag91

I remember the good old days of lads walking around with 10mms and 40mms on their hips, then over night it was all gone. It got too big too quick and attracted all shorts of wannabes. I often wonder is there any lobby groups working to bring back CF pistols. I doubt it.

The best hope for laws to change is for practical shooting to be recognized by the the Olympics.
The international practical shooting confederation (IPSC) was granted observer status in 2019 by the Olympic council. Having practical hand gun as a recognized sport is the only way I can see a change.

As said before NITSA is probably the only place to get into CF pistols, courses, competitions. You can buy all the gear bar the gun and mags.
As for 22lr pistols they can be gotten without too much hassle.

tudderone

kellbag91 wrote: »

I remember the good old days of lads walking around with 10mms and 40mms on their hips, then over night it was all gone. It got too big too quick and attracted all shorts of wannabes. I often wonder is there any lobby groups working to bring back CF pistols. I doubt it.

The best hope for laws to change is for practical shooting to be recognized by the the Olympics.
The international practical shooting confederation (IPSC) was granted observer status in 2019 by the Olympic council. Having practical hand gun as a recognized sport is the only way I can see a change.

As said before NITSA is probably the only place to get into CF pistols, courses, competitions. You can buy all the gear bar the gun and mags.
As for 22lr pistols they can be gotten without too much hassle.

I really doubt it. I had heard they olympics wanted to go to air arms exclusively.

kellbag91

tudderone wrote: »

I really doubt it. I had heard they olympics wanted to go to air arms exclusively.

The only way I can see new CF licenses being granted if there is some kind of sporting application of them that is unquie to them, namly IPSC. The kind of target shooting done in the Republic is just stationary paper punching.

We live in strange times where restricted semi-auto ar15s can be licensed with some hoop jumping. But the likes of a glock is an impossibility. If there was lobby group working on this issue I'd surly support it.

tudderone

kellbag91 wrote: »

The only way I can see new CF licenses being granted if there is some kind of sporting application of them that is unquie to them, namly IPSC. The kind of target shooting done in the Republic is just stationary paper punching.

We live in strange times where restricted semi-auto ar15s can be licensed with some hoop jumping. But the likes of a glock is an impossibility. If there was lobby group working on this issue I'd surly support it.

But ipsc is a no-no, as the guards classed it as "Military training" or some such nonsense. That papal-knight idiot running body guard training courses for the gullible (anyone know anyone who did one), was all the ammo needed to see the end of practical.

Also i hear practical shotgun is under pressure from the police in the UK, so its not just here these sports are under the cosh.

kellbag91

tudderone wrote: »

But ipsc is a no-no, as the guards classed it as "Military training" or some such nonsense. That papal-knight idiot running body guard training courses for the gullible (anyone know anyone who did one), was all the ammo needed to see the end of practical.

Also i hear practical shotgun is under pressure from the police in the UK, so its not just here these sports are under the cosh.

The top brass in Garda management made that call a long time ago, and we did see "body guard courses" poping up. 15 years on we have Drew Harris as the Commissioner, he has even brought some of his supporting top level officers with him. My point is practical shooting is well established in the north, if ever there was a time for a more favourable view of pistol shooting by the Guards it's now. The majority of people with CFs are lads in their 40s and 50s, there is no young blood in the sport at all. I would like to think some is working on the issue.
As for the Brits I believe mini-rifle might be getting the chop because the optics of it offend people.

Grizzly 45

kellbag91 wrote: »

I remember the good old days of lads walking around with 10mms and 40mms on their hips,

Must have been some mighty big lads and handguns... 40 mm =1.5 in cal handgun!:D:D

Grizzly 45

kellbag91 wrote: »

The top brass in Garda management made that call a long time ago, and we did see "body guard courses" poping up. 15 years on we have Drew Harris as the Commissioner, he has even brought some of his supporting top level officers with him. My point is practical shooting is well established in the north, if ever there was a time for a more favourable view of pistol shooting by the Guards it's now. The majority of people with CFs are lads in their 40s and 50s, there is no young blood in the sport at all. I would like to think some is working on the issue.
As for the Brits I believe mini-rifle might be getting the chop because the optics of it offend people.

Despite Comm Harris coming from an armed police force and one that knows the ins and outs of IPSC being a sport and not some military/bodyguard/whatever training.You have about as much chance of getting it going again here as Joe Biden remembering what he said 30 mins ago!:rolleyes:
The GCC isnt exactly pro gun ownership either,or so I'm told.He tolerates them,but wont move to help us either.Nor will the force/DOJ,they are still scared witless of that demo 18 years ago put on by the IPSC .Their arguement will be simply it is unsafe movement with a loaded firearm.Strangely,all their objections even on a point of "tactical training" etc could be sorted by adopting the "German IPSC" rulebook.As it has faced 100% all the objections AGS has to it here ,and then some.IPSC is one of the faster growing German shooting sports even today.

The 2nd problem is "shooter /political" as to who has juristiction for the Republic for IPSC.
The ROI is still a seperate entity,but the "old boys club" who shoots it,and are the flag carriers and go off to NI to shoot,haven't exactly made any effort in the last decade to try and get this back in the Republic or encouraged the sport for new comers either,and seem to have a "Fuk you I'm grand shooting in NI "attitude to this.It would be better just to forget about that lot who are going the way of the dinosaurs,and go up to NI and join a club up there and shoot IPSC,which is fine if you don't have any intention to go and repersent the ROI on international levels and cause friction with the old dads. So long as they hold the IPSC title,you wont see any effort made to have it down here again.
2nd best option would be to create an "Irish IPSC" senario that has no movement with loaded guns or shooting out from barricades"windows" etc that frightens our PTB.

On an aside Re the so called "bodygaurd courses"
18/20 years ago when I was in the trade.I and others couldn't find anything of the sort here bar the one ran by the great cheif Walt Baron,papal knight, cheif Gallowglass clan leader, legend in his own mind Jim Shortt,late of Castlebellingham,Co Louth.Which also just happened to be in then Min for Justice Dermot Ahernes constituency in Co Louth! Which no doubt helped poision this even further in that nasty little mans mind.There were claims of others being run,but were never more than stories or nasty rumours or people mistaking by design or accident IPSC matches with this training.

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Despite Comm Harris coming from an armed police force and one that knows the ins and outs of IPSC being a sport and not some military/bodyguard/whatever training.You have about as much chance of getting it going again here as Joe Biden remembering what he said 30 mins ago!:rolleyes:
The GCC isnt exactly pro gun ownership either,or so I'm told.He tolerates them,but wont move to help us either.Nor will the force/DOJ,they are still scared witless of that demo 18 years ago put on by the IPSC .Their arguement will be simply it is unsafe movement with a loaded firearm.Strangely,all their objections even on a point of "tactical training" etc could be sorted by adopting the "German IPSC" rulebook.As it has faced 100% all the objections AGS has to it here ,and then some.IPSC is one of the faster growing German shooting sports even today.

What gets up my nose is people, the gardai, who really don't know what they are on about regarding firearms past bolt action rifles and double barrel shotguns, get to decide whats acceptable or not.

Sports which are fine the world over land in Ireland and they have a melt down. I am surprised they don't find clay pigeon shooting a bit subversive.

But i doubt we will ever see practical here again.

Grizzly 45

tudderone wrote: »

But ipsc is a no-no, as the guards classed it as "Military training" or some such nonsense. That papal-knight idiot running body guard training courses for the gullible (anyone know anyone who did one), was all the ammo needed to see the end of practical.

Also i hear practical shotgun is under pressure from the police in the UK, so its not just here these sports are under the cosh.

Ages ago,I knew someone who did their only one here in Ireland in Cork.But it wasn't firearms related.it was more formation drill,surveillance,counter surveillance ,when you are out and about with your client.Which BTW is more important than doing off hand 50-meter pistol shots in the trade,as you are supposed to protect and remove your client from a situation,not get them into firefights.A point alot of BGs seem to miss...So I cant faulyt IBF or whatever they were called on that.
What was the problem was when Shortt was outed with his arrogance,Waltism and stupidity his name contaminated the whole brand,and no one was going to pay more into the pyramid schem of training they were running.Somthing like 3 grand to go to the East bloc to fire some AK at a stationary target type training for a day at the time.:rolleyes:
Practical shotgun in the UK is under attack because of an anti gun Times journalist,and "I dont like the look of them Guv" attitude of the UK Coppers to the box loaders that are pouplar over there.

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Ages ago,I knew someone who did their only one here in Ireland in Cork.But it wasn't firearms related.it was more formation drill,surveillance,counter surveillance ,when you are out and about with your client.Which BTW is more important than doing off hand 50-meter pistol shots in the trade,as you are supposed to protect and remove your client from a situation,not get them into firefights.A point alot of BGs seem to miss...So I cant faulyt IBF or whatever they were called on that.
What was the problem was when Shortt was outed with his arrogance,Waltism and stupidity his name contaminated the whole brand,and no one was going to pay more into the pyramid schem of training they were running.Somthing like 3 grand to go to the East bloc to fire some AK at a stationary target type training for a day at the time.:rolleyes:
Practical shotgun in the UK is under attack because of an anti gun Times journalist,and "I dont like the look of them Guv" attitude of the UK Coppers to the box loaders that are pouplar over there.

A thing to do on a boring wet day, is to go onto the arrse forum and do a search for shortt, it hilarious. The ex-forces truly despise him.

kellbag91

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Must have been some mighty big lads and handguns... 40 mm =1.5 in cal handgun!:D:D

Sorry 40 cal I'm must have been high.
I set myself up for that one

tudderone

If you are only going to be paper punching, then you are as well off with a .22 anyway. I had both a .22 and 9mm at the same time and as often as not, i'd wind up using the .22.

Feisar

tudderone wrote: »

A thing to do on a boring wet day, is to go onto the arrse forum and do a search for shortt, it hilarious. The ex-forces truly despise him.

I read about him a couple of years ago, hard to believe the likes of him exists. Although some lads spew massive amounts of crap and some start to buy into their own bullshít.

tudderone

Feisar wrote: »

I read about him a couple of years ago, hard to believe the likes of him exists. Although some lads spew massive amounts of crap and some start to buy into their own bullshít.

Oh i have met them, i always find them to be complete nuts and in some ways dangerous. One idiot who lives near me told me on several separate occasions he was : A sapper in the British army, in the provisional IRA, in the SAS, and employed by the government to do "Contract work". He was never in any of these things, but was a road digger for Dublin county council :rolleyes:.

If any adult engages in this sort of fairytale, lets pretend, then they cannot be too steady in the head.

The thing about Shortt, was he was in a position to do us damage, and he did. Why he slipped under the special branches radar is another question.

Grizzly 45

And Shortt is still alive and Walting/waltzing[?] down in Australia West Papua/New Guinea these days. Looks like another kid who got in well over his neck is in trouble.Same like that, Dwyer guy from Tip who was involved in that whatever that was in Bolivia a few years ago. Another lad who swallowed a load of BS from some psycho who was involved in Bosnia,and somehow ended up with a shadowy security company run by former Garda ERU types guarding the Rossport terminal in the West.

Walting and BS is fine if you are in the pub and want to impress the girlies into buying you pints and hopefully tempt them back into the scratcher.:D
But you seriously have to rein it in when the sht becomes very real. You are putting yourself,and others lives at risk at worst,or a long stretch of jail time in some Hell hole in the 3rd world if it goes ass ways at best.:(

Developing an excellent " Bull Sht Ometer" and "Walt detector" are critical bits of life saving equipment in this world of the semi shadows,and belive me I have met and dealt with a few,and some of them are excellent,so that I'm not surprised Gym Shortt got away with it for so long.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/trained-by-a-baron-and-backed-by-bambi-now-west-papua-freedom-fighter-faces-jail-20121206-2ayc7.html

Grizzly 45

tudderone wrote: »

If any adult engages in this sort of fairytale, lets pretend, then they cannot be too steady in the head.

The thing about Shortt, was he was in a position to do us damage, and he did. Why he slipped under the special branches radar is another question.

Maybe they didnt read "The Phoenix" magazine ??:rolleyes: HT and WTF.com would all this not have raised questions? Some bloke in the Minister for justices constituency posting pics of a selection of select fire firearms??

jb88

If lads wanted to change things they would have lobbied their TDs and kept in their ear. But too many were afraid and to be honest a lot of them shouldnt have had water pistols, as their was little or no examination of the criteria for a CF Pistol at the time.

So to everyone without a CF Pistol quit ur whinging and get your backside in your car and go up to NITSA if you are interested in IPSC

Dont expect any miracles this side of the border..

tudderone

jb88 wrote: »

If lads wanted to change things they would have lobbied their TDs and kept in their ear. But too many were afraid and to be honest a lot of them shouldnt have had water pistols, as their was little or no examination of the criteria for a CF Pistol at the time.

So to everyone without a CF Pistol quit ur whinging and get your backside in your car and go up to NITSA if you are interested in IPSC

Dont expect any miracles this side of the border..

The same as it is now, membership of an authorised, garda inspected range. I was a member of such a range, what else did you want me to have before i could own a centrefire pistol ?

Grizzly 45

jb88 wrote: »

Dont expect any miracles this side of the border..

Isn't it great that we have a divided island if you are a pistol shooter?:rolleyes:

Too true,as those in charge and are supposedly representing the sport [IPSC]for the republic are happy out in NI and have done.........Crickets..........Tumbleweed rolls by....... to try and reintroduce it down here. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Witcher

tudderone wrote: »

The same as it is now, membership of an authorised, garda inspected range. I was a member of such a range, what else did you want me to have before i could own a centrefire pistol ?

Jb88 thinks people shouldn't have pistols unless they're competing;

jb88 wrote: »

If there was a requirement for mandatory range attendance then even that can be abused with lads just turning up to swipe a fob. Having seen it first hand, and its a farce.

If pistol is your requirement get one and use it in competition, that should be the only justification for having one.
Show competition entries and results when you go for renewal. Otherwise choose something else

And when you no longer shoot it in competition get rid of it, easily 2500 - 3000 .22 Pistols in Ireland. It would be great to see 10% of that number turning up to shoot a club or national competition, but its a dream.

Easily over 150 pistols in my Club with about half that competing with them every year, I at least try and do 4 comps per year which is very easy.

Too many lads with Pistols gathering dust in safes in Ireland and when time comes and the government wants rid of them, top of their excuse list will be "Why do you need it", you dont compete.

Uinseann_16

I have a gsg 1911 im hardly going to shoot 50m bullseye with it:rolleyes:
How hard is it to join a club in the north? im just under an hour from the fermanagh border ...

SVI40

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

I have a gsg 1911 im hardly going to shoot 50m bullseye with it:rolleyes:
How hard is it to join a club in the north? im just under an hour from the fermanagh border ...

Don't know about the other clubs there, but NITSA is always open for membership.

Cass

Just a curiosity. The NITSA is a Northern Ireland thing so are all shoots in the North. With Brexit and the deadline of January 1st how does it work for lads traveling up after this date as they won't be able to use the EU firearms pass anymore?

Grizzly 45

^^^^THIS^^^
Going to be an awful mess,as it will now have to be a direct application ASFIK to the PSNI to import firearms into Her Majesties province of N Ireland. IOW hopping across the border for some practise on a Saturday and home in Dublin for tea and whatnot is going to be a thing of the past.

Wadi14

I shoot in the North and have visitors pass untill 2022 for some of my firearms, cant see anything changing to tell you the truth , it will work exactly the same.

As for joining NI clubs there's no bother at all, different world to shooting down here, you'll be shooting 357 magnums Uinseann_16 before you know it lol

Cass

Wadi14 wrote: »

I shoot in the North and have visitors pass untill 2022 for some of my firearms, cant see anything changing to tell you the truth , it will work exactly the same.

My apologies, i might have made it seem like my comment about the firearms pass was a question. I'm actually asking because the UK government has said EU firearm Passports will no longer be valid after january 1st, 2021.

Hence my question about what way does it work after that date.

This link shows that EFPs are no longer valid for UK citizens as the UK will be out of Europe one expects they won't accept them for those coming in.

Put i this way. If you firearms license was valid until 2022 and the Government banned all guns in the morning would your license still be valid?

Wadi14

The NI firearms rules are not the same as the UK ones so like every thing else we will have to wait and see. Of course Borris wants to please his supporters by being stiff upper lip and not recognizing an EU pass. As it stands you have to apply to the PSNI for a visitors permit, come jan you will still be applying to the PSNI, we can take their milk surely they can take our fee lol
An EU pass is exactly that an EU document, last year the NASRPC held its International shoot in NI, shooters came from Europe and from Non EU countries they all got visitor permits for NI.

tudderone

Wadi14 wrote: »

I shoot in the North and have visitors pass untill 2022 for some of my firearms, cant see anything changing to tell you the truth , it will work exactly the same.

As for joining NI clubs there's no bother at all, different world to shooting down here, you'll be shooting 357 magnums Uinseann_16 before you know it lol

I believe so, a much more positive attitude from the PTB up there too.

Cass

Wadi14 wrote: »

The NI firearms rules are not the same as the UK ones so like every thing else we will have to wait and see.

There is a difference in licensing, but Northern Ireland is still part of the UK and unless i'm mistaken, which is not beyond possible, they will be leaving the EU when the UK does.

Of course Borris wants to please his supporters by being stiff upper lip and not recognizing an EU pass. As it stands you have to apply to the PSNI for a visitors permit, come jan you will still be applying to the PSNI, we can take their milk surely they can take our fee lol

That is what i'm curious about. I'm not saying you cannot travel, i'm simply curious as to the process when the EU FP is effectively void.

An EU pass is exactly that an EU document,

As the UK won't be in the EU it'll be redundant.

last year the NASRPC held its International shoot in NI, shooters came from Europe and from Non EU countries they all got visitor permits for NI.

Last year though. It's next year they leave.

1874

Excuse my ignorance, just how do ROI shooters participate in CF pistol shooting in the North currently? are the CF pistols kept in the North?

SVI40

I suspect there will be no change, bar not having to send a copy of your EU firearms pass. Just your application for a visitors permit, sponsor, and copies of you RoI certs.

How do people think it will be different?

Cass

By the way in case i'm coming across as confrontational or argumentative, its not intended. I read about the firearms pass being made void come January and this thread got me thinking about what happens to lads that travel regularly.

SVI40

1874 wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance, just how do ROI shooters participate in CF pistol shooting in the North currently? are the CF pistols kept in the North?

Some have them kept at clubs, some have friends there keep them on their licence, or you just use club guns.

Cass

SVI40 wrote: »

How do people think it will be different?

As above.

Cass wrote: »

That is what i'm curious about. I'm not saying you cannot travel, i'm simply curious as to the process when the EU FP is effectively void.

The UK was always in the EU so i cannot remember a time when you done anything different.

SVI40

Cass wrote: »

By the way in case i'm coming across as confrontational or argumentative, its not intended. I read about the firearms pass being made void come January and this thread got me thinking about what happens to lads that travel regularly.

Valid question, but bear in mind, RoI, UK and Sweden never recognised the EU pass on its own. You have always had to apply to the relevant authority to bring you firearms into those countries.

It's only recently that NI and GB recognised each others licences. Prior to that, they each had to apply to the local police force. Bit like Carlow not recognising a licence issued in Louth!

Cass

So you apply as normal, just no EFP?