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Detective Garda Colm Horkan killed in Castlerea, Roscommon - [MOD WARNING POST #1]

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    Kilboor wrote: »
    Not the best use of language there...


    I wouldn't say this is a 'nothing incident'!

    There have been reports by some of the media that it was a Garda raid gone wrong or that there was an emergency response unit callout. It was nothing like that. It was a normal day to day incident that went very wrong. The type of incident any Garda male or female would be expected to deal with on their own

    I actually know the Garda and his family


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,199 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    I wouldn't say this is a 'nothing incident'!

    I do not believe Gooey Looey meant it in the way you think.

    He lives in the town and knows or knows of the detective.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,736 ✭✭✭✭BPKS


    I wonder did the poor Garda in question hear all the commentary about the recent 'civilian' deaths in the US at the hands of police officers.

    On The Last Word a couple of days ago you had Marian McKeon saying that the police officers who shot a fella who had taken a taser from one of the officer and attempted to taser them were wrong in their actions. She said they should have just let the suspect (drink driving) walk home to his sisters house. (She didn't say if he should be allowed keep the taser but I guess so).

    All the abuse and negative press around the US police officers may (and I say may) have led to this detective hesitating in taking action himself, conscious of the negativity that would surround a Garda shooting a 'civilian'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    Kiith wrote: »
    No it doesn't. I hope he gets charged with the full extent of the law, and gets life in prison.

    A beating behind closed doors does nothing to "scare" other criminals. A justice system that is extremely tough on this sort of crime might though.

    Not sure what country you're living or whether you were born yesterday. There's a reason why attacks on police are rare considering the job they do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    Whats wrong with harsher sentences, theres people walking around without a care in the world with multiple convictions to their name.

    1) the term you use, “harsher” - why aren’t you using the term “accurate” - harsher is used by those who want to punish for the sake of punishment.

    2) distinguishing between delinquency and hardened criminals is difficult, longer sentences for delinquents make them hardened criminals

    3) prison is meant to reform, though it doesn’t seem to be successful, therefore longer sentences have little impact on society, other than the obvious which the usual shortsighted people will point to.

    4) there are plenty of examples in countries around the world that longer sentences do not reduce crime


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    For anyone who wishes to pay tribute to the member of the force, there's a lovely memorial in Dublin Castle's gardens outside the Chester Beatty for Gardai that were killed on duty.

    Might be an appropriate place to lay flowers.

    I'm not in the country, but would do so if I was. The Gardai have been off their feet the last few months, so to see this happening must be demoralising to a lot of them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    Reading the posts tells me he’s a gent and some scumbag took full advantage and murdered him. Throw away the key, life for a life in that instance. The strongest message needs to be sent out. God Bless The Garda and his family, friends and colleagues.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    begbysback wrote: »
    1)
    4) there are plenty of examples in countries around the world that longer sentences do not reduce crime

    Surely if a criminal who, ie: has 40 convictions over a period of 5 years, was given a custodial sentence at conviction No.10, then some of their 40 convictions would not have happened as they were locked up.

    Therefore, longer sentences would reduce the crime rate?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,648 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    Was the Garda by himself?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    I wonder is something like biometrics on the trigger are a possibility or is it just too risky having something that might not work.

    Just seems mad that if someone got my phone they'd be able to do nothing with it, but a gun is just good to go.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Mwengwe


    Got his gun taken from him and shot dead with it. This is why at times in the US the cops shoot first and ask questions later.

    Pity this Garda didn't do the same.

    Christ


  • Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭redarmyblues


    Detective is allowed to carry a gun. To be honest the PC culture in this country is to blame for most of our problems.
    We should bring in tough laws, get caught stealing twice, hand off.
    Assault someone, give the person the same beating in public
    Rape someone, cut it off.


    Kids are now carrying knives and stabbing other kids and it doesn't make the news these days. We are going down a very dark road

    Sharia law, so?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    begbysback wrote: »
    1)

    3) prison is meant to reform

    says who?

    the majority of them are beyond/incapable of reform so there's no point in having the whole prison system set up for the tiny few who want to change - meanwhile most of them are living a cushy existence pretending to be onboard because the idea behind reform suggests really that it wasn't their fault to begin with.

    i agree about the length of sentencing generally but prison should be a horrible place that nobody ever wants to return to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    Very sad news. It sounds like an incident that erupted from nothing. The detective could have been giving assistance to someone who was a danger to himself or something like that, routine stuff for guards, when it all went terribly wrong. Not sure you can really safeguard against that kind of thing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,199 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    Was the Garda by himself?

    Yes.

    The RTÉ article makes it seem like Horkan was headed home or to work and just saw a guy on the street that he need to talk to for some reason.

    Just how it seems to me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,246 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    That poor family. RIP to the garda. What a horrible time for the family. Hope they have friends and family to help them through this.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,199 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    hetuzozaho wrote: »
    I wonder is something like biometrics on the trigger are a possibility or is it just too risky having something that might not work.

    Just seems mad that if someone got my phone they'd be able to do nothing with it, but a gun is just good to go.

    Do guns like that exist?

    They've been in movies and TV shows but I assumed such technology was a long way off. Never thought of how they have it in phones.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    Surely if a criminal who, ie: has 40 convictions over a period of 5 years, was given a custodial sentence at conviction No.10, then some of their 40 convictions would not have happened as they were locked up.

    Therefore, longer sentences would reduce the crime rate?

    So your saying, prison has failed to reform so let’s try again and send them back for longer, to me this would be like sweeping the rubbish under the carpet, and sometimes this is necessary, however if we continue then in 50 or 100 years from now the problem still exists.

    My outlook, as a logically minded person, would be to simply ask, is there a better alternative.


  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭NotMOL


    begbysback wrote: »
    So he wasn’t actually called out to a domestic? Thought the initial reports were strange, not likely an armed guard would be dispatched to a domestic.

    He was a detective not like ERU or something. Detectives go to regular calls


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,561 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    May he rest in peace, what a terrible tragedy. Thoughts are with his family, friends and colleagues.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Carol25


    RIP to the poor man, condolences to the family also. Such a shocking thing to happen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    begbysback wrote: »
    So your saying, prison has failed to reform so let’s try again and send them back for longer, to me this would be like sweeping the rubbish under the carpet, and sometimes this is necessary, however if we continue then in 50 or 100 years from now the problem still exists.

    My outlook, as a logically minded person, would be to simply ask, is there a better alternative.

    Norway has a longitudinal recidivism rate which is less than half of Ireland's or the UK's. The evidence is there, but unfortunately in Ireland it is a third rail issue. Too many people don't want to hear it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭Akesh


    begbysback wrote: »
    So your saying, prison has failed to reform so let’s try again and send them back for longer, to me this would be like sweeping the rubbish under the carpet, and sometimes this is necessary, however if we continue then in 50 or 100 years from now the problem still exists.

    My outlook, as a logically minded person, would be to simply ask, is there a better alternative.

    Despite what some of the insane altruistic people will tell you, prison isn't just about reform, it's about protecting society from parasites who deem themselves above the law and society, to behave how they please. Some people can't be reformed and society needs to accept that.

    There is nothing logical about attempting to reform serial repeat offenders.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    begbysback wrote: »
    So your saying, prison has failed to reform so let’s try again and send them back for longer, to me this would be like sweeping the rubbish under the carpet, and sometimes this is necessary, however if we continue then in 50 or 100 years from now the problem still exists.

    My outlook, as a logically minded person, would be to simply ask, is there a better alternative.

    I hear ya. But what is the alternative? Non custodial sentences have been the norm for a very long time now and yet nothing has changed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,561 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    begbysback wrote: »
    So your saying, prison has failed to reform so let’s try again and send them back for longer, to me this would be like sweeping the rubbish under the carpet, and sometimes this is necessary, however if we continue then in 50 or 100 years from now the problem still exists.

    My outlook, as a logically minded person, would be to simply ask, is there a better alternative.

    You lock them up and throw away the key.

    There really is nothing complicated about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,365 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    begbysback wrote: »
    So your saying, prison has failed to reform so let’s try again and send them back for longer, to me this would be like sweeping the rubbish under the carpet, and sometimes this is necessary, however if we continue then in 50 or 100 years from now the problem still exists.

    My outlook, as a logically minded person, would be to simply ask, is there a better alternative.

    So its the prisons fault is it?

    There are already programmes and education opportunities in place for those who want to change their life but a lot of them don't and have no fear of going to prison at all because they know they will be out again in a few years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,199 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    Akesh wrote: »
    Despite what some of the insane altruistic people will tell you, prison isn't just about reform, it's about protecting society from parasites who deem themselves above the law and society, to behave how they please. Some people can't be reformed and society needs to accept that.

    There is nothing logical about attempting to reform serial repeat offenders.

    It is a pity that we cannot at this time separate those that remorseful of their crimes and who can be and want to be reformed from those who cannot and will not be reformed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,365 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Yurt! wrote: »
    Norway has a longitudinal recidivism rate which is less than half of Ireland's or the UK's. The evidence is there, but unfortunately in Ireland it is a third rail issue. Too many people don't want to hear it.

    Isn't it Norway that could only give a mass murderer a sentence of 21 years?

    Not a great system there IMO to give as an example.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    You lock them up and throw away the key.

    There really is nothing complicated about it.

    You’re starting to sound like Donald Trump now Kermit, careful there.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭Busterie


    I wonder if BLM and other political fashonistas will be protesting about this.


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