Irish Championship 2020

sodacat11

Will it go ahead or not? Whatever about the championship itself I think it would be a great shame and upset a lot of people if we didn't get to have our annual tipping competition!

sodacat11

A questionnaire went out yesterday from the ICU asking interested parties for their thoughts on the Irish Championship. This is a positive development showing that the will is there to hold the championship. I thought that all the safety guidelines were very sensible apart from the idea of each player having a separate board, I think that this would be unworkable in time trouble and also it creates too strange a situation compared to a "normal" game.

checknraise

Rightly or wrongly I am not too concerned about the virus.

If there is significant risk with the number of people playing in at the same time what about round robin formats for the tournaments played in separate rooms?

It may not be financially viable for the main tournament but even a reduction in prize money should still get a healthy entry as everyone has nowhere to go!

sodacat11

checknraise wrote: »

Rightly or wrongly I am not too concerned about the virus.

There is just no accounting for ignorance but hopefully you will have some consideration for the rest of us by not turning up if you have any symptoms and by wearing a mask and sanitizing if you do decide to grace us with your presence.

macelligott

Get your entries in and put your money where your mouths are :-)
The sooner the organisers know how many entries they are likely to have, the sooner they can start planning.

sodacat11

macelligott wrote: »

Get your entries in and put your money where your mouths are :-)
The sooner the organisers know how many entries they are likely to have, the sooner they can start planning.

Probably not all the people who have already entered will play.

RooksPawn

checknraise wrote:

Rightly or wrongly I am not too concerned about the virus.

sodacat11 wrote: »

There is just no accounting for ignorance but hopefully you will have some consideration for the rest of us by not turning up if you have any symptoms and by wearing a mask and sanitizing if you do decide to grace us with your presence.

Agreed, but what else can you expect from a poker player? They are incurable risk takers and it's people like that we have to fear if/when the pubs reopen, let alone chess tournaments.

RooksPawn

Has the rating floor for the Irish Championship been abolished now that the subsidiary events are cancelled?
A player rated 1250 has entered today.

cdeb

This has come up regularly before - entries seem to be taken automatically on the ICU site, and then manually moderated.

So it is possible to enter the wrong tournament, but it'll be caught shortly

macelligott

So there are seven players over 2200 entered so far, including two 2300+.
Any one of those seven is capable of winning. Trisha Kanyamarala (2184) could also play an important part in the event.

sodacat11

macelligott wrote: »

So there are seven players over 2200 entered so far, including two 2300+.
Any one of those seven is capable of winning. Trisha Kanyamarala (2184) could also play an important part in the event.

With Lopez and Murphy and Collins missing it looks wide open!

Anyone who hasn't entered yet should soon and anyone who has entered but isn't going to play should remove their names so that the organisers will know exact numbers and can plan seating and hygiene arrangements accordingly.

zeitnot

macelligott wrote: »

So there are seven players over 2200 entered so far, including two 2300+.
Any one of those seven is capable of winning. Trisha Kanyamarala (2184) could also play an important part in the event.

Including five 2300+ going by FIDE, and not one of them has ever won.

(The next two have won occasionally.)

sodacat11

zeitnot wrote: »

Including five 2300+ going by FIDE, and not one of them has ever won.

(The next two have won occasionally.)

Stephen has about eight titles and Colm something like five, a bit more than "occasionally" I would have thought?

zeitnot

sodacat11 wrote: »

Stephen has about eight titles and Colm something like five, a bit more than "occasionally" I would have thought?

http://www.irlchess.com/players/irish-champions/

Joedryan

Is there a two week self quarantine for any Irish players abroad flying in?

cdeb

There's talk that will be lifted sometime in the next month from certain countries - so probably not by the time August comes round. But at the moment, it is still in place.

RooksPawn

Joedryan wrote: »

Is there a two week self quarantine for any Irish players abroad flying in?

That will be announced on or by 9 July when the "green" list of countries with which Ireland will have an air bridge is announced. This is being decided on a EU-wide basis and will be reviewed every two weeks.
So Spain and Ireland might be open to each other.
In the worst cases, you could book a flight and then the next review would remove one country or the other if they had a new spike of cases.
So you could buy a ticket and then find you cannot travel if Spain gets a new wave, or you could be here for the tournament and then Ireland got a spike, maybe you would get stuck here.

It's extremely unlikely that GB will be on the green list in the near future.
If GB is red and the defending champion wants to play he would have to fly to Belfast and come down from there, which cannot be stopped but would be antisocial behaviour and in conscience he should quarantine for 14 days before the event.

My advice to any player not currently on the island of Ireland would be to forget about this year's Championship and any other Irish events in 2020.

At the ICU agm this year, there needs to be a motion amending or temporarily suspending the normal qualification rules on eligibility for selection which specify a requirement to play a number of recent tournaments in Ireland.

macelligott

RooksPawn: “ At the ICU agm this year, there needs to be a motion amending or temporarily suspending the normal qualification rules on eligibility for selection which specify a requirement to play a number of recent tournaments in Ireland.”

The 2020 Olympiad teams have already been chosen - though it is now scheduled for 2021. So there is no issue to be solved in that respect.

sodacat11

RooksPawn wrote: »

Has the rating floor for the Irish Championship been abolished now that the subsidiary events are cancelled?
A player rated 1250 has entered today.

The 1200 player was an error but apparently the rating floor has been changed now. It seems that entries will be accepted from anyone with an ICU rating of 1800 or a FIDE rating of 1700.

macelligott

"Competition Terms

1. The latest official ICU and FIDE rating lists shall apply prior to the close of entries.

2. Players rated above 1900 on either of the two lists above are permitted entry. All others must apply for wildcards to the event if they wish to play unless they won a qualifying event or are a past champion. See appendix 1 below.

Appendix 1: Invited players

Players in the Irish Chess Championship may have the rating requirement ignored provided they are nominated by:

a.The ICU Executive (maximum 2 players)

b.The tournament organisers (maximum 1 player)

The Irish Women’s Champion, Irish 50+ and 65+ Champions, and all previous IRL winners of this event are automatically nominated to play in the Irish Championship irrespective of rating.

https://www.icu.ie/articles/670

sodacat11

macelligott wrote: »

"Competition Terms

1. The latest official ICU and FIDE rating lists shall apply prior to the close of entries.

2. Players rated above 1900 on either of the two lists above are permitted entry. All others must apply for wildcards to the event if they wish to play unless they won a qualifying event or are a past champion. See appendix 1 below.

Appendix 1: Invited players

Players in the Irish Chess Championship may have the rating requirement ignored provided they are nominated by:

a.The ICU Executive (maximum 2 players)

b.The tournament organisers (maximum 1 player)

The Irish Women’s Champion, Irish 50+ and 65+ Champions, and all previous IRL winners of this event are automatically nominated to play in the Irish Championship irrespective of rating.

https://www.icu.ie/articles/670

I have no objection to past champions or senior champs but allowing the ICU or the organisers to nominate players smacks of nepotism and should not be entertained. Ratings should decide who plays.

cdeb

I think item (b) makes a bit of sense if it means giving the organisers the flexibility to avoid a bye.

sodacat11

cdeb wrote: »

I think item (b) makes a bit of sense if it means giving the organisers the flexibility to avoid a bye.

Fair enough if the person they bring in is close to 1900 but I have seen cases where allowing non qualified players into tournaments has actually caused byes by making an uneven number.

Retd.LoyolaCpt

sodacat11 wrote: »

I have no objection to past champions or senior champs but allowing the ICU or the organisers to nominate players smacks of nepotism and should not be entertained. Ratings should decide who plays.

I generally use the tournament organiser's pick to even up numbers if needed. I don't think I've used it that often otherwise but I honestly don't recall. If I was to use it (or when I do), I think I tend to look favourably on players who were 1900+ in that year. The Irish tends to have entries up to 9 months in advance so players can go above and below a few times in that time. (At a normal weekender, I'd just move players to the appropriate section when I scan entries but as we only have one upper tiered section, I'd be refunding entries as opposed to simply moving them.)

I think it works well under the understanding that if you've been over 1900 in the calendar year, you're likely to get a wildcard - but as that's not in writing it probably could be nailed down to "1 player, who does not meet rating criteria, may be permitted entry to even up entries" and "Players rated above 1900 on either of the two lists above during the calendar year of the event are permitted entry."

sodacat11

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

I think it works well under the understanding that if you've been over 1900 in the calendar year, you're likely to get a wildcard - but as that's not in writing it probably could be nailed down to "1 player, who does not meet rating criteria, may be permitted entry to even up entries" and "Players rated above 1900 on either of the two lists above during the calendar year of the event are permitted entry."

That is fair enough. Any system that stipulates in advance what the rating requirements are and sticks to them is fine by me. Ratings might not be 100% accurate (I'd be 2300 if they were) but at least the system is fair and transparent, leaving individual entries up to the discretion of any committee is not.

macelligott

The 1900+ entry requirement should written clearly on the entry page. At the moment that information is in a link. Because there is a listed entry fee for <1900, it is natural that players below 1900 will think they can enter.

macelligott

Note. The ratings displayed on the entry list are ICU ratings. FIDE ratings, which will be used for pairing purposes, will be different.

Joedryan

RooksPawn wrote: »

At the ICU agm this year, there needs to be a motion amending or temporarily suspending the normal qualification rules on eligibility for selection which specify a requirement to play a number of recent tournaments in Ireland.

Excellent idea.

RooksPawn

I still think there should be a motion. What cdeb said about the Olympiad team is true, but there could be withdrawals, and anyway that's not the only event potentially affected.

The rules for eligibility for the national club championship might need relaxing for a year or two also.

Joedryan

RooksPawn wrote: »

I still think there should be a motion. What cdeb said about the Olympiad team is true, but there could be withdrawals, and anyway that's not the only event potentially affected.

The rules for eligibility for the national club championship might need relaxing for a year or two also.

What did cdeb say? The point is the eligibility rules take into account the last two years before an event, so obviously they will need to be adapted to the current circumstances

cdeb

I think he means macelligott, not me

Joedryan

macelligott wrote: »

RooksPawn: “ At the ICU agm this year, there needs to be a motion amending or temporarily suspending the normal qualification rules on eligibility for selection which specify a requirement to play a number of recent tournaments in Ireland.”

The 2020 Olympiad teams have already been chosen - though it is now scheduled for 2021. So there is no issue to be solved in that respect.

This one?

Well there is every issue Gerry!!! You are only on about one event there

sodacat11

This thread is supposed to be about the Irish championship not international team selection.

RooksPawn

I can't find what cdeb said earlier in this thread. He thought I was only referring to the next Olympiad. Maybe he's deleted the post.

Meanwhile the new Irish government has said that they will not be issuing a "green list" of countries for air bridges on 9 July, but will postpone this until at least 20 July. They continue to advise against inessential travel overseas.

The priority is to try to get schools fully open in September in the face of opposition from teacher unions who are acting the maggot.
It is more important to get them onside by keeping Ireland healthy than to placate Michael O'Leary who can afford to lose more money.

cdeb

I've deleted nothing.

As before, is it not macelligott's post you're referring to?

macelligott wrote: »

RooksPawn: “ At the ICU agm this year, there needs to be a motion amending or temporarily suspending the normal qualification rules on eligibility for selection which specify a requirement to play a number of recent tournaments in Ireland.”

The 2020 Olympiad teams have already been chosen - though it is now scheduled for 2021. So there is no issue to be solved in that respect.

Retd.LoyolaCpt

I’ll give an update to bring us slightly back on track - Apologies for the delay since my last one.

Generally, the Irish has not been too difficult to put together over the past 2 years (at least the work could be spread over a year than a couple of months) but obviously this year is on the other end of the spectrum. To combat that extra work, there’s a bit more of a committee approach to things so I can’t be as certain in my answers as previous years. However, I’ll do my best.

Tentative plan:
Guidelines are on paper and due to be published early next week, pending committee sign-off. This will include a walk-through of what to expect at the door each day - to ensure safety, anti cheating measures and a check-in for devices.

Trial games will go ahead in the middle of the month. We need to test the guidelines and walkthrough and make sure everything is actually workable (and timed out). We don’t want to turn up on August 1 and hope for the best.

Pictures of the venue and trial games will be published to give a further idea of what to expect so you are not caught unawares on August 1. We’ll tweak guidelines as necessary once those trial events are complete.

Entries: will close a week later than usual. I think we generally close two weeks in advance - in the past (the before times), people would have limited holidays to work with so would know long in advance if they’d play. This year, given the new date, lack of foreign playing opportunities and the uncertainty around very many things (and no new rating lists to worry about) - we think it’s best to be more flexible here. We’re looking at around 30 entries - not sure about norm chances but I think there is a 50-50 chance of 3-4 titled players. I haven’t done a push on the latter like I normally would as there’s just too much else to do before that - but should have a better idea by the end of next week.

Finally, Colaiste Eanna have been a massive help and the event would not be possible without them. It will probably be more clear once the walkthrough has been published and/or once you’ve seen the venue but they’ve been tireless in getting everything ready for the event and will have volunteers on the door each day to make sure it all runs as smoothly as possible. Special thanks of course go to Dave Grant whose directed their efforts.

Again, apologies for the slowness - but we’re getting there.

Joedryan

sodacat11 wrote: »

This thread is supposed to be about the Irish championship not international team selection.

One thing leads to the other when players cant play in the Irish, its an important point which was noted by RooksPawn

Joedryan

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

I’ll give an update to bring us slightly back on track - Apologies for the delay since my last one.

Generally, the Irish has not been too difficult to put together over the past 2 years (at least the work could be spread over a year than a couple of months) but obviously this year is on the other end of the spectrum. To combat that extra work, there’s a bit more of a committee approach to things so I can’t be as certain in my answers as previous years. However, I’ll do my best.

Tentative plan:
Guidelines are on paper and due to be published early next week, pending committee sign-off. This will include a walk-through of what to expect at the door each day - to ensure safety, anti cheating measures and a check-in for devices.

Trial games will go ahead in the middle of the month. We need to test the guidelines and walkthrough and make sure everything is actually workable (and timed out). We don’t want to turn up on August 1 and hope for the best.

Pictures of the venue and trial games will be published to give a further idea of what to expect so you are not caught unawares on August 1. We’ll tweak guidelines as necessary once those trial events are complete.

Entries: will close a week later than usual. I think we generally close two weeks in advance - in the past (the before times), people would have limited holidays to work with so would know long in advance if they’d play. This year, given the new date, lack of foreign playing opportunities and the uncertainty around very many things (and no new rating lists to worry about) - we think it’s best to be more flexible here. We’re looking at around 30 entries - not sure about norm chances but I think there is a 50-50 chance of 3-4 titled players. I haven’t done a push on the latter like I normally would as there’s just too much else to do before that - but should have a better idea by the end of next week.

Finally, Colaiste Eanna have been a massive help and the event would not be possible without them. It will probably be more clear once the walkthrough has been published and/or once you’ve seen the venue but they’ve been tireless in getting everything ready for the event and will have volunteers on the door each day to make sure it all runs as smoothly as possible. Special thanks of course go to Dave Grant whose directed their efforts.

Again, apologies for the slowness - but we’re getting there.

Is it a good idea though? When not all players can play.

sodacat11

Joedryan wrote: »

Is it a good idea though? When not all players can play.

Not ALL players ever play. Yes it is unfortunate that a few foreign based players like yourself will miss out but there is a larger group of people based here that have to be catered for. I think that the ICU are doing a great job in staging it and I endorse the compliment to scoil eanna which is an excellent venue and add my thanks to Dave Grant.

Joedryan

sodacat11 wrote: »

Not ALL players ever play. Yes it is unfortunate that a few foreign based players like yourself will miss out but there is a larger group of people based here that have to be catered for. I think that the ICU are doing a great job in staging it and I endorse the compliment to scoil eanna which is an excellent venue and add my thanks to Dave Grant.

Isnt the current defending champion also foreign based? I just throw the question out, I dont say that I am right but it deserves a mention which hitherto it doesnt seem to have got. There is a legitimate question to be asked if this is the right moment for the championships to take place.

sodacat11

Joedryan wrote: »

Isnt the current defending champion also foreign based? I just throw the question out, I dont say that I am right but it deserves a mention which hitherto it doesnt seem to have got. There is a legitimate question to be asked if this is the right moment for the championships to take place.

I think that the strong entry shows it is the right time. There has often been times when defending champions haven't played and there has also been years when the championship has been held in places like Belfast which to some of us was an even stronger deterrent than the plague.

cdeb

I think as well we all want to get back to playing leagues, weekenders, club nights, etc. A small tournament is the best way to trial how to manage that in a pandemic. It sounds strange to be using the Irish as a guinea pig, but in a way, it's arguably the most suitable tournament for it.

There may be a question mark over this year's winner if the field isn't as strong as it could be. But I think in the circumstances, that's an acceptable compromise

sodacat11

cdeb wrote: »

I think as well we all want to get back to playing leagues, weekenders, club nights, etc. A small tournament is the best way to trial how to manage that in a pandemic. It sounds strange to be using the Irish as a guinea pig, but in a way, it's arguably the most suitable tournament for it.

There may be a question mark over this year's winner if the field isn't as strong as it could be. But I think in the circumstances, that's an acceptable compromise

There will be no question mark over the winner. By that logic one could argue that there is a question mark over the last forty winners because Kernan, Kelly, Baburin or whoever didn't play. Murphy is a worthy Irish Champion but he is not a regular visitor to our shores, I had never even seen him before last years championship. Whoever wins this year will be Irish champion and deservedly so. The two Ks have an excellent chance of becoming our youngest ever champion, are you going to say that their achievement (should they pull it off) is somehow less just because certain players either can't play or won't play?

cdeb

If people who would otherwise like to play are unable to because of a pandemic (which is completely outside their control), then yes, arguably so.

It's not quite the same as eligible people choosing not to enter - though I'll grant you, it's not entirely dissimilar either.

It seems the prospective field at the moment is quite strong, which will certainly minimise any question mark. And I don't think it should stop the competition going ahead either.

macelligott

There are already four former Irish Champions in a strong field this year. And more strong players might yet enter.
The 2016 tournament had only 16 players and was much weaker than this years entry - which has already 23 prospective entrants.
Check your history !
http://www.irlchess.com/irlch2016_allfiles/pairings_irlch2016.html

sodacat11

A player can only beat the people who are there, if people aren't there for whatever reason that has nothing to do with it. It would be a different story was "Who is the best player in Ireland?" the question, then of course absentees would matter but the Irish Championship does not decide who the strongest player is and nor is it meant to. Dennis Taylor was world snooker champ but never the best player in the world. Khalifman was world chess champion. Greece were football champions of Europe but miles away from being the best team. Championships are there to decide a champion not who is THE best.
The Irish Championship has a great entry this year considering the circumstances and I for one can't wait to play some "real "live chess again.

Retd.LoyolaCpt

macelligott wrote: »

There are already four former Irish Champions in a strong field this year. And more strong players might yet enter.
The 2016 tournament had only 16 players and was much weaker than this years entry - which has already 23 prospective entrants.
Check your history !

I don’t think Joe said it would be weaker - just that some couldn’t play due to restrictions. Which is a fair point but ultimately, I think the pros of running it outweigh the cons - namely that we’d risk having no championship this year by not running it in this slot. And as cdeb points out, it will hopefully be a blueprint for other events to return.

It should be a reasonably strong Irish - not on the level of ‘18 or ‘19 but stronger than most other years this decade.

Joedryan

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

I don’t think Joe said it would be weaker - just that some couldn’t play due to restrictions. Which is a fair point but ultimately, I think the pros of running it outweigh the cons - namely that we’d risk having no championship this year by not running it in this slot. And as cdeb points out, it will hopefully be a blueprint for other events to return.

It should be a reasonably strong Irish - not on the level of ‘18 or ‘19 but stronger than most other years this decade.

Thats a fair point, lots of people are talking about a second wave coming in the Autumn/Winter but ultimately nobody knows for sure. I think in the circumstances its probably the best decision.

macelligott

Entries so far in FIDE rating order

macelligott

5 players rated over 2300 FIDE entered so far.

Joedryan

sodacat11 wrote: »

A player can only beat the people who are there, if people aren't there for whatever reason that has nothing to do with it. It would be a different story was "Who is the best player in Ireland?" the question, then of course absentees would matter but the Irish Championship does not decide who the strongest player is and nor is it meant to. Dennis Taylor was world snooker champ but never the best player in the world. Khalifman was world chess champion. Greece were football champions of Europe but miles away from being the best team. Championships are there to decide a champion not who is THE best.
The Irish Championship has a great entry this year considering the circumstances and I for one can't wait to play some "real "live chess again.

Great, but its not really about you is it.