Black Conservatives debate Black Liberals

biko

With all the George Floyd riots etc going on.

It seems people on the right, and also on the left, tend to see the black community as a homogeneous group and not individuals with a variation of political beliefs.

This may be an eyeopener for people like Joe Biden that think black people must have a certain set of opinions just because they are black.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGAsMtcPy_c

Link to extended version

Figel Narage

biko wrote: »

With all the George Floyd riots etc going on.

It seems people on the right, and also on the left, tend to see the black community as a homogeneous group and not individuals with a variation of political beliefs.

This may be an eyeopener for people like Joe Biden that think black people must have a certain set of opinions just because they are black.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGAsMtcPy_c

Link to extended version

They do largely vote deomcrat though, very few % wise vote republican so I don't think Joe was wrong albeit, very silly thing to say publicly I remember watching that video awhile ago, I'm neither conservative nor liberal but the right wing group seemed come out of it looking better than the left wing group through out the whole debate, a lot more rationale

Fr Tod Umptious

Yes black voters overwhelming vote Democrat, but they are not necessarily all in on the liberal agenda.

Many are religious and socially conservative.
The LGTQ+ agenda does not sit well with them

Had the Democrats nominated a more liberal candidate the black vote may well be lower than what Biden will be able to muster.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

A lot of conservative black Americans won't vote Republican because they see that party as the one that has more racists. If that wasn't a problem, they'd have no loyalty to the democrats.

Madeleine Birchfield

The salient divide between the Democratic and Republican parties in 2020 is racism against black Americans and whether it is a systemic social and cultural problem in the United States.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

biko wrote: »

With all the George Floyd riots etc going on.

It seems people on the right, and also on the left, tend to see the black community as a homogeneous group and not individuals with a variation of political beliefs.

This may be an eyeopener for people like Joe Biden that think black people must have a certain set of opinions just because they are black.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGAsMtcPy_c

Link to extended version

Very interesting! Yeah, I find it kind of racist the way many people seem to expect black people to all hold the same views.

Madeleine Birchfield

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Very interesting! Yeah, I find it kind of racist the way many people seem to expect black people to all hold the same views.

They don't but there is this prevasive belief in the black American community called 'linked fate' that whatever affects one black American affects all black Americans.

Madeleine Birchfield

Madeleine Birchfield wrote: »

The salient divide between the Democratic and Republican parties in 2020 is racism against black Americans and whether it is a systemic social and cultural problem in the United States.

Except in 2016, the black American vote declined in the last election- only 59.6% of black American voters came out and voted. The highest ever black American vote was in 2012 when Obama got elected (over 66% of black americans voted)

And you see, Donald Trump knows this- while on the face of it, there's an apparent revolution happening - if America want's a change of president, their alternative for 2020 is "Sleepy" Joe Biden - do you really think Black Americans will go out in record numbers to vote for him?

And Donald Trump doesn't think so either.


https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/05/12/black-voter-turnout-fell-in-2016-even-as-a-record-number-of-americans-cast-ballots/

Biafranlivemat

There is nothing more hated in America than a black conservative.

Overheal

Biafranlivemat wrote: »

There is nothing more hated in America than a black conservative.

Appreciate why: they are in the company of blacks who lived through slavery, or Jim Crow, etc and said “let’s keep things the way they are, I like them.” After all, that is conservatism in a nutshell.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Could never see how a black person would support the Dems anyway considering their history and the fact that they're the party of the Klan.

It was so weird how they turned the worm and created the bigotry of low expectations to divide and conquer. The race divisions they stoke. Master manipulators.

StupidLikeAFox

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Could never see how a black person would support the Dems anyway considering their history and the fact that they're the party of the Klan.

There is very little link to democratic party that was "the party of the Klan", compared to todays democratic party.

biko

Overheal wrote: »

Appreciate why: they are in the company of blacks who lived through slavery

Since slavery in US ended in the 1860s there have been approx 10 generations.
But you believe today's black people are in actual company of others who "lived through slavery"?

If you are an actual descendant of a slave he was your
great great great great great great great great grandfather

biko

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52992795

George Floyd: How far have African Americans come since the 1960s?

In 2016, the latest data available, the average wealth of a white family was almost seven times more than a black family in the US.
Wealth is calculated by a family's assets - such as a house or savings - minus their debts.

Although the wealth disparity remains significant, African Americans have become more economically well off since the 1960s.
In 2018, the black poverty rate was 20.8% - about half of that in 1966.

The African-American unemployment rate reached a record low of 5.5% in September last year - but it has spiked sharply because of the huge impact of the coronavirus crisis on the US economy.

The average income of black households is just over 60% that of white households, with this disparity barely changing over the past 50 years.

Progress has been made in black representation in politics, with today's US Congress being the most diverse ever.

Mr. Karate

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

There is very little link to democratic party that was "the party of the Klan", compared to todays democratic party.

The last KKK Member member of the Senate, Robert Byrd was a Democrat. He even endorsed Hilary [and she even praised him]

The KKK was even formed to rival the NRA.

Fr Tod Umptious

Anyone had a short version of how the Democrats turned from being the party of segregation not that long ago (Governor Wallis and all) to the party that southern blacks favor most .

I'd really love to know

Eric Cartman

the difference between the two parties is the republicans would rather create more jobs for black people to work to provide for themselves, the democrats would rather give black people more welfare, government housing and keep them the perpetual victim suckling at the states teat.

I can understand heard mentality and how black people who don't realise this would vote for the democrats, but whats more worrying is how many black people have realised this and continue to vote democrat because of it.

Odhinn

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Anyone had a short version of how the Democrats turned from being the party of segregation not that long ago (Governor Wallis and all) to the party that southern blacks favor most .

I'd really love to know

In the 1960's the Republican party adopted the ground once occupied by the "dixie crats"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Goldwater#Political_advertising

Mr. Karate

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the difference between the two parties is the republicans would rather create more jobs for black people to work to provide for themselves, the democrats would rather give black people more welfare, government housing and keep them the perpetual victim suckling at the states teat.

I can understand heard mentality and how black people who don't realise this would vote for the democrats, but whats more worrying is how many black people have realised this and continue to vote democrat because of it.

Welfare is the modern day slavery. Keep promising them free stuff and you have a dependable voting block.

Odhinn

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the difference between the two parties is the republicans would rather create more jobs for black people to work to provide for themselves, the democrats would rather give black people more welfare, government housing and keep them the perpetual victim suckling at the states teat.

I can understand heard mentality and how black people who don't realise this would vote for the democrats, but whats more worrying is how many black people have realised this and continue to vote democrat because of it.

Black unemployent is only afew % worse than white unemployment.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/06/economy/black-unemployment-rate/index.html


The notion of a welfare dependent black population is a great deal off the facts.

Overheal

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Could never see how a black person would support the Dems anyway considering their history and the fact that they're the party of the Klan.

It was so weird how they turned the worm and created the bigotry of low expectations to divide and conquer. The race divisions they stoke. Master manipulators.

You'd have to read the politics behind the southern strategy but basically after the voting rights act there was a huge flip of party bases.

Overheal

biko wrote: »

Since slavery in US ended in the 1860s there have been approx 10 generations.
But you believe today's black people are in actual company of others who "lived through slavery"?

If you are an actual descendant of a slave he was your
great great great great great great great great grandfather

There are people alive today who remember a grandparent that was born into chattel slavery.

People younger than that remember lynchings. We had lynchings up to the 1980s.

There is still slavery in the united states to this day:

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Eric Cartman

Odhinn wrote: »

Black unemployent is only afew % worse than white unemployment.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/06/economy/black-unemployment-rate/index.html


The notion of a welfare dependent black population is a great deal off the facts.

you've actually proven my point, under programs implemented by the trump administration to bring back jobs it has sent the black unemployment numbers tumbling.

The republicans have and always had done more for black employment.

Manic Moran

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Yes black voters overwhelming vote Democrat, but they are not necessarily all in on the liberal agenda.

Many are religious and socially conservative.
The LGTQ+ agenda does not sit well with them

Had the Democrats nominated a more liberal candidate the black vote may well be lower than what Biden will be able to muster.

Indeed. When Obama was elected, California voted on Prop 8 at the same time, a Constitutional prohibition on gay marriage. A whole lot of black and hispanic voters came out to vote for Obama.... and while they were there, they also voted in favour of Prop 8, which passed.

MontgomeryClift

Eric Cartman wrote: »

you've actually proven my point, under programs implemented by the trump administration to bring back jobs it has sent the black unemployment numbers tumbling.

The republicans have and always had done more for black employment.

That's generally true, but as we can see by voting patters, it doesn't matter. Blacks, like all races apart from whites, vote as a tribe.

Since the Republican party is largely the white man's party, blacks vote the other way. Republicans can only appeal on a equality level, white the Democrats appeal on an identitarian level with the promise of special privileges and 'gibs'. There's no contest.

Edit: That's why black conservatives are derided by their peers. They're essentially race traitors.

The Phantom Jipper

I don't think Trump does the Republican Party any good with a lot of the things he says and does. Anyone already wary of Republicans has been given ample reason to steer well clear

Mr. Karate

Manic Moran wrote: »

Indeed. When Obama was elected, California voted on Prop 8 at the same time, a Constitutional prohibition on gay marriage. A whole lot of black and hispanic voters came out to vote for Obama.... and while they were there, they also voted in favour of Prop 8, which passed.

Plus Obama ran as Pro Traditional Marriage candidate, which most likely helped Prop 8 pass.

Overheal

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Plus Obama ran as Pro Traditional Marriage candidate, which most likely helped Prop 8 pass.

Was that to force it to the Supreme Court though?

rossie1977

Biafranlivemat wrote: »

There is nothing more hated in America than a black conservative.

Rubbish.

Some of the most conservative people in America are black. Travel to deep south and black churches are packed every week.

Maybe you are confusing people who get paid huge sums of money from rich individuals to talk nonsense on TV such as Hitler was a great guy and there is no racism in America...those people are hated for good reason.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Could never see how a black person would support the Dems anyway considering their history and the fact that they're the party of the Klan.

It was so weird how they turned the worm and created the bigotry of low expectations to divide and conquer. The race divisions they stoke. Master manipulators.

Probably because none of that is true. KKK was founded by a group of confederates.

In 2020 Democrats aren't the ones bringing confederate flags to rallies or flying them highest in predominantly black towns in the south to show authority. Democrats also weren't the ones calling for Jim Crow era statues to remain and protesting their removal..

Mr. Karate wrote: »

The last KKK Member member of the Senate, Robert Byrd was a Democrat. He even endorsed Hilary [and she even praised him]

Some of the most conservative politicians in America are Democrat.

A Democrat in Mississippi will have vast different political views than a Democrat from Seattle.

In many southern states politicians frequently switch between Republican and Democrat because there is little difference between the political views in those states.

Byrd denounced the KKK anyway. David Duke on the other hand has not and endorsed Trump.

The KKK was even formed to rival the NRA.

No it was not. There are well known connections between those two organizations.

KKK started in 1865 and was outlawed in 1871..1871 just happened to be the year NRA was founded

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the difference between the two parties is the republicans would rather create more jobs for black people to work to provide for themselves, the democrats would rather give black people more welfare, government housing and keep them the perpetual victim suckling at the states teat.

I can understand heard mentality and how black people who don't realise this would vote for the democrats, but whats more worrying is how many black people have realised this and continue to vote democrat because of it.

How exactly are Republicans creating more jobs for black americans?

Trump takes credit for black unemployment rate when it had nothing to do with him. It's 17% now, I wonder will he and the Republicans own it now?

Trump can't even find work for black americans in the White House yet we are to believe he cares about black people in Detroit or Louisiana or Gary Indiana.

Overheal

rossie1977 wrote: »

Rubbish.

Some of the most conservative people in America are black. Travel to deep south and black churches are packed every week.

Maybe you are confusing people who get paid huge sums of money from rich individuals to talk nonsense on TV such as Hitler was a great guy and there is no racism in America...those people are hated for good reason.



Probably because none of that is true. KKK was founded by a group of confederates.

In 2020 Democrats aren't the ones bringing confederate flags to rallies or flying them highest in predominantly black towns in the south to show authority. Democrats also weren't the ones calling for Jim Crow era statues to remain and protesting their removal..



Some of the most conservative politicians in America are Democrat.

A Democrat in Mississippi will have vast different political views than a Democrat from Seattle.

In many southern states politicians frequently switch between Republican and Democrat because there is little difference between the political views in those states.

Byrd denounced the KKK anyway. David Duke on the other hand has not and endorsed Trump.



No it was not. There are well known connections between those two organizations.

KKK started in 1865 and was outlawed in 1871..1871 just happened to be the year NRA was founded




How exactly are Republicans creating more jobs for black americans?

Trump takes credit for black unemployment rate when it had nothing to do with him. It's 17% now, I wonder will he and the Republicans own it now?

Trump can't even find work for black americans in the White House yet we are to believe he cares about black people in Detroit or Louisiana or Gary Indiana.

The NRA also has a really spotty track record in using it’s clout to defend the rights of black firearm-caring citizens. The only time the NRA really supported gun control was after the black panthers did the exact same thing that anti-lockdown protesters did, basically.

ILoveYourVibes

biko wrote: »

With all the George Floyd riots etc going on.

It seems people on the right, and also on the left, tend to see the black community as a homogeneous group and not individuals with a variation of political beliefs.

This may be an eyeopener for people like Joe Biden that think black people must have a certain set of opinions just because they are black.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGAsMtcPy_c

Link to extended version

The idea that black people vote republican is always grossly over represented by the media and the gop itself. They don't.

Odhinn

Eric Cartman wrote: »

you've actually proven my point, under programs implemented by the trump administration to bring back jobs it has sent the black unemployment numbers tumbling.

The republicans have and always had done more for black employment.

No, those sort of figures pre date Trump.

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

The NRA also has a really spotty track record in using it’s clout to defend the rights of black firearm-caring citizens. The only time the NRA really supported gun control was after the black panthers did the exact same thing that anti-lockdown protesters did, basically.

The NRA sucks, they are directly complicit in helping to bring some of the daftest and illogical gun control measures in the US, all with a view to denying black people their right to own firearms.

Eric Cartman

AbusesToilets wrote: »

The NRA sucks, they are directly complicit in helping to bring some of the daftest and illogical gun control measures in the US, all with a view to denying black people their right to own firearms.

such as ?

Joe Columbo

The democrats know that close to 100% of black people vote for them so there is zero Incentive for them to actually help black people in fact if anything it's advantageous for the democrats to convince black Americans that society is against them while at same time making sure they don't actually do anything to improve the status of black people so they will always be providing them with this dream of change to get votes but never properly improve their lives as the might start being more selfish and vote for the republicans if the were to improve their status in life. Black people should consider tactically voting for the republican party once to see if it might get the democrats attention and get them to actually do something.If the republicans know black people will never vote for them either then why would the republicans bother having policies in place to help black people when they know they wouldn't even consider voting for them in the first place.

rossie1977

Joe Columbo wrote: »

The democrats know that close to 100% of black people vote for them so there is zero Incentive for them to actually help black people in fact if anything it's advantageous for the democrats to convince black Americans that society is against them while at same time making sure they don't actually do anything to improve the status of black people so they will always be providing them with this dream of change to get votes but never properly improve their lives as the might start being more selfish and vote for the republicans if the were to improve their status in life. Black people should consider tactically voting for the republican party once to see if it might get the democrats attention and get them to actually do something.

If i am a black person why would I vote Republican based on this single picture comparison alone...

Derdwerker

Democrats and Republicans both have racial skeletons in their closet. Oddly enough, the Republican Party is probably more honest in this sense.

It was summed up perfectly by a black comedian (can’t remember which, possibly Chris Rock):
“The thing about Republicans, at least they’re honest about not wanting me in their neighbourhood”

Cordell

rossie1977 wrote: »

If i am a black person why would I vote Republican based on this single picture comparison alone...

You shouldn't vote for either of them based on a single picture alone. Doing so it's incredibly superficial and pretty much sums up the today's political stage. No one cares about the real problems anymore, it's all based on how it looks, and even that, it's how it looks at the first glance, not if you're looking in depth.

Rockbeast2

Obama was and still is all about the optics. Same as Leo. He really was a nothing President. Did he actually have any actual policies? I'm not sure that Change, Hope, and Yes We Can actually count as policies. And it makes me laugh so hard when I read the calls for "Queen" Michelle to run for President or Vice-President. Ha ha ha.

Oh, what is the Obama photo above meant to represent? It's certainly not a demographically accurate representation.

biko

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The idea that black people vote republican is always grossly over represented by the media and the gop itself. They don't.

Approx 8 out of 10 blacks vote dems and 1 vote republican

Also, more black Democratic voters continue to characterize their views as moderate rather than liberal.
In 2019, 43% of black Democrats called themselves moderate, 29% called themselves liberal and 25% called themselves conservative.

https://press.princeton.edu/ideas/why-are-blacks-democrats
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/26/opinion/black-voters-2020-election.html
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/01/17/liberals-make-up-largest-share-of-democratic-voters/

Biafranlivemat

AbusesToilets wrote: »

The NRA sucks, they are directly complicit in helping to bring some of the daftest and illogical gun control measures in the US, all with a view to denying black people their right to own firearms.

The NRA is a big organistion, but its declining in strength.
on the other hand you have growing civil rights/gun rights groups.


Black

https://naaga.co/
National African American Gun Association
https://www.meetup.com/National-African-American-Gun-Association-Atl-Metro/
blackgunownersassociation
https://blackgunownersassociation.org/gun-clubs/


gay
The Pink Pistols
http://www.pinkpistols.org/
Jewish
Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership
http://jpfo.org/


other civil rights and gun ownership groups.


Revolution PAC ,Second amendment foundation,Women Warriors pac
ETC ETC ETC

CrankyHaus

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

Obama was and still is all about the optics. Same as Leo. He really was a nothing President. Did he actually have any actual policies? I'm not sure that Change, Hope, and Yes We Can actually count as policies. And it makes me laugh so hard when I read the calls for "Queen" Michelle to run for President or Vice-President. Ha ha ha.

He never lived up to his rhetoric; and was compromised from the outset by kowtowing to Wall Street. But he was first American President in decades to even have aspirations to change the country for the better.
For instance he made noble efforts in Healthcare Provision, Foreign Policy and Nuclear Arms Control. In all cases he was obstructed every step of the way, which prevented home runs. Obama's Wars by Bob Woodward is an excellent book that highlights how the permanent institutions involved in defence did everything under the sun to frustrate his aims for a less interventionist US foreign policy.

If anything the lesson from the Obama presidency was that even a two-term President cannot turn the oil tanker around.
This is why I found everyone losing their head over Trump to be so ridiculous. He's a disgrace but his actual influence is grossly overstated.

Biafranlivemat

Overheal wrote: »

There are people alive today who remember a grandparent that was born into chattel slavery.

People younger than that remember lynchings. We had lynchings up to the 1980s.

There is still slavery in the united states to this day:

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

One of the largest Lynchings, was the lynchings of 11 Italian Americans, after a Irish police officer was murdered. I read in a book back in the 90's that a large part of the mob was black.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Americans


Yes Lynchings happened, but it wasn't totally a "Black Thing" even thou they suffered most per head of population.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States

Biafranlivemat

Joe Columbo wrote: »

The democrats know that close to 100% of black people vote for them so there is zero Incentive for them to actually help black people in fact if anything it's advantageous for the democrats to convince black Americans that society is against them while at same time making sure they don't actually do anything to improve the status of black people so they will always be providing them with this dream of change to get votes but never properly improve their lives as the might start being more selfish and vote for the republicans if the were to improve their status in life. Black people should consider tactically voting for the republican party once to see if it might get the democrats attention and get them to actually do something.If the republicans know black people will never vote for them either then why would the republicans bother having policies in place to help black people when they know they wouldn't even consider voting for them in the first place.

In the 90's I was sitting in a Bar in Boston.
Ted Kennedy was fighting for reelection..

Nearby One Black Gent was talking how great it was That Kennedy had visited Roxbury(black neighborhood) two other Black man agreed about how great he was. i said to them that Ted had already made 3 speeches over in South Boston (white neighborhood)

I explained he only had to visit Roxbury once, because he already had the Black vote, while in South Boston, Kennedy had to fight for every single vote.He didn't take the white voted for granted.

Biafranlivemat

Overheal wrote: »

There are people alive today who remember a grandparent that was born into chattel slavery.

People younger than that remember lynchings. We had lynchings up to the 1980s.

There is still slavery in the united states to this day:

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

There is still slavery in the united states to this day.
But most of them are Sex slaves,are brought into the country illegally.


To stop the sex slave trade,a big wall needs to be built on the southern boarder and Emigration rules tighten and mass deportations.
which isn't going to happen.


tough luck for the poor sex slaves.

rossie1977

Cordell wrote: »

You shouldn't vote for either of them based on a single picture alone. Doing so it's incredibly superficial and pretty much sums up the today's political stage. No one cares about the real problems anymore, it's all based on how it looks, and even that, it's how it looks at the first glance, not if you're looking in depth.

Maybe you missed the entire debate last 3 pages that Republicans are the party that want to get black people to work while Democrats want to control them via welfare...

Of course the photo comparison is important because if Trump and his team cannot find work in the White House for black people why is he really going to be interested in finding work for those thousands of miles away and completely unknown to him.

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

Obama was and still is all about the optics. Same as Leo. He really was a nothing President. Did he actually have any actual policies? I'm not sure that Change, Hope, and Yes We Can actually count as policies. And it makes me laugh so hard when I read the calls for "Queen" Michelle to run for President or Vice-President. Ha ha ha.

Actual policies like what.. Build a wall, lock her up, more tax cuts for giant corporations and the top 0.1%?

Obama was the first president in decades to try and change the health care laws.

When he entered the White House the US were losing 800,000 jobs every month and unemployment was spiralling towards 10% while the DOW was falling towards 6,000. It was the worst financial crisis since the 30s and one many experts believed would usher in a decade of depression.

Its basically like saying 'that fireman who came to put out the huge fire burning down the house did but why didn't he mow the lawn, paint the bedrooms, put up new curtains' .

Obama eliminated most wanted man in US history, saw US massively reduce their presence in the middle east, mended fences with Iran

Oh, what is the Obama photo above meant to represent? It's certainly not a demographically accurate representation.

I already explained it above. And certainly the Trump photo isn't representive of the US demographically. Any high school graduation photo will tell you that.

biko

Another black person that has come away from the Dems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT-x0-I1ohc