Extended Maternity Leave

Hasmunch

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0611/1146850-varadkar-will-consider-extension-to-maternity-leave/

Petition to extend maternity leave was submitted to the Dail yesterday.

My wife gave birth at the end of February and we have basically been in lockdown since and baby has only seen grandparents once priority to lockdown.

What are the chances they might actually extend it?

jlm29

Hasmunch wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0611/1146850-varadkar-will-consider-extension-to-maternity-leave/

Petition to extend maternity leave was submitted to the Dail yesterday.

My wife gave birth at the end of February and we have basically been in lockdown since and baby has only seen grandparents once priority to lockdown.

What are the chances they might actually extend it?

Who knows. It’s mental though- the article said about extending it for people who’s mat leave was due to expire between March and sept. People who’s mat leave was due to expire in March were off since sept and had basically their whole maternity leave as normal?
They could be back at work. Would they head off again? I expect a lot of people couldn’t afford to take it if their wages aren’t topped up. I’d imagine it’s too big a can of worms to be opening. And tbh, I think the people on mat leave are lucky to be on mat leave and not worrying about childcare throughout this.

foreverandever

I went back to work the first week of March and have been working throughout. I actually don’t get the reason to extend mat leave because of people being on lockdown?? You’ve still had that time with the baby.

However I would support longer maternity leave in general, for everyone

bee06

I think a lot of people are having problems finding child care and have had to take holidays or unpaid leave as a result.

PhoenixParker

bee06 wrote: »

I think a lot of people are having problems finding child care and have had to take holidays or unpaid leave as a result.

I'm due back in early September and whats really giving me pause is handing baby over at the door of the creche.

I'm OK with my 3.5 year old going back to a creche and carers he's familiar with. He can tell me if somethings up but a 10 month old settling in for the first time is a very different proposition.

Not sure what I'll end up doing. Possibly a nanny but I'd like the 3 year old to see his friends and socialise.

lashes34

bee06 wrote: »

I think a lot of people are having problems finding child care and have had to take holidays or unpaid leave as a result.

Everyone with kids have that issue though? Myself and my husband are both working fulltime, lockdown didnt affect our work apart from obviously not having childcare. Its painful, someone coming off maternity leave shouldn't get extra leave, thats crazy.

bee06

lashes34 wrote: »

Everyone with kids have that issue though? Myself and my husband are both working fulltime, lockdown didnt affect our work apart from obviously not having childcare. Its painful, someone coming off maternity leave shouldn't get extra leave, thats crazy.

I’m just saying what I’ve been hearing from Facebook groups. Women who had crèche places reserved that have now been cancelled because crèches have to reduce numbers and are prioritising the existing children attending.

lashes34

Ya I get it. Our childminder has decided not to start again so Im on the hunt and its impossible. Its just not limited to oarents of new babies.

Millem

Can’t see it happening for people who have already finished their maternity leave.

Leo said “he will consider it over the next couple of days, but added that he had concerns that legislation may be required and you can’t bring in retrospective legislation.“

Unless he brings it in for people who have just started or will be starting soon? Probably won’t happen at all.

cant26

Honestly I think there are bigger issues for the government to be focusing on right now.
Of course as a whole our maternity system should be looked at but some of the reasons that I was reading why maternity leave should be extended are just ridiculous!
Not being able to go for coffee dates or baby groups...seriously! Of course not being able to these things, especially as a first time mum is rubbish and I definitely think the whole lockdown has affected some new mums mental health, as it did many for many other people. But people need to move on from it.
Lockdown is lifting, life as we know it won’t return any time soon but it is improving..I hope!
The childcare argument is for every working parent.
Parents who had secure dependable childcare pre Covid now find themselves back to square one just as new mums do. Covid or no Covid dealing with childcare as a new mum is extremely difficult and emotional. I just don’t think it warrants extra mat leave at the moment.
The country is on its knees economically and the government can’t figure out what to do with our school going children. I think in the grand scheme of things distracting our already incapable politicians with this is just tone deaf.
That’s my opinion anyways. Oh and I say this as a mother of two who will be availing of another maternity leave in a few months!!!

Millem

cant26 wrote: »

Honestly I think there are bigger issues for the government to be focusing on right now.
Of course as a whole our maternity system should be looked at but some of the reasons that I was reading why maternity leave should be extended are just ridiculous!
Not being able to go for coffee dates or baby groups...seriously! Of course not being able to these things, especially as a first time mum is rubbish and I definitely think the whole lockdown has affected some new mums mental health, as it did many for many other people. But people need to move on from it.
Lockdown is lifting, life as we know it won’t return any time soon but it is improving..I hope!
The childcare argument is for every working parent.
Parents who had secure dependable childcare pre Covid now find themselves back to square one just as new mums do. Covid or no Covid dealing with childcare as a new mum is extremely difficult and emotional. I just don’t think it warrants extra mat leave at the moment.
The country is on its knees economically and the government can’t figure out what to do with our school going children. I think in the grand scheme of things distracting our already incapable politicians with this is just tone deaf.
That’s my opinion anyways. Oh and I say this as a mother of two who will be availing of another maternity leave in a few months!!!

Absolutely agree with you!
We need to try and get back the country up and running and back to normal ASAP.

jlm29

I’ve actually enjoyed the lockdown part of my Mat leave more than the not locked down part. It’s been SO nice not to have to be on the road, dropping and collecting the older kids. I feel the baby has gotten into more of a routine. And I’ve loved not being expected to go anywhere or see anyone!
Everyone has had to make sacrifices over the last few months. And our tax bills are more than likely going to reflect any of these measures that cost money, so I would hope mat leave is left as is

shane b

jlm29 wrote: »

Who knows. It’s mental though- the article said about extending it for people who’s mat leave was due to expire between March and sept. People who’s mat leave was due to expire in March were off since sept and had basically their whole maternity leave as normal?

I believe the problem is that there is a loophole where women on unpaid maternity leave and due back during lockdown are not getting paid or get social welfare.
If the company the woman was working for was closed they are not seen as a full time employee and not entitled to the covid payment as they weren't actually employed at the time the business closed and not entitled to their normal wages either.

Millem

shane b wrote: »

I believe the problem is that there is a loophole where women on unpaid maternity leave and due back during lockdown are not getting paid or get social welfare.
If the company the woman was working for was closed they are not seen as a full time employee and not entitled to the covid payment as they weren't actually employed at the time the business closed and not entitled to their normal wages either.

I thought they sorted now?

shane b

Millem wrote: »

I thought they sorted now?

I don't know to be honest

iamwhoiam

PhoenixParker wrote: »

I'm due back in early September and whats really giving me pause is handing baby over at the door of the creche.

I'm OK with my 3.5 year old going back to a creche and carers he's familiar with. He can tell me if somethings up but a 10 month old settling in for the first time is a very different proposition.

Not sure what I'll end up doing. Possibly a nanny but I'd like the 3 year old to see his friends and socialise.

But in all fairness that same worry would have arisen with no Covid .?

PhoenixParker

iamwhoiam wrote: »

But in all fairness that same worry would have arisen with no Covid .?

No.

Before covid baby would have been dropped to the room. I could have spent time with her in the room for the first few days before leaving. Even 10 minutes makes a big difference. I could have stood around talking to the carers for half an hour discussing the day if necessary. I could call in for an early pick up or done a late drop off and see what was going on.

There was way more visibility into the creche and how things were done and happening there.

It's a very different proposition.

shesty

shane b wrote: »

I don't know to be honest

They did sort it I believe.

I admit I thought the argument was ridiculous too myself.The only valid concern would probably be difficulty finding childcare.Given the absolute...callousness (can't think of another word)....that whole sector of childcare and education has been treated with during all of this, I imagine many people will have problems with childcare.Sure those of us who aren't on mat leave are having issues, never mind people going back to work after a baby.

kastasia

Yeah, I just started on maternity leave and this petition came up a few times but I just couldn't sign it. I'm not against longer maternity leave, but I don't think it should be a kneejerk temporary reaction. I know it must have been hard for mothers, especially first time mothers the last few months, but it was hard for me being heavily pregnant and trying to work and look after toddler at the same time and it's been hard for so many others too.

iamwhoiam

PhoenixParker wrote: »

No.

Before covid baby would have been dropped to the room. I could have spent time with her in the room for the first few days before leaving. Even 10 minutes makes a big difference. I could have stood around talking to the carers for half an hour discussing the day if necessary. I could call in for an early pick up or done a late drop off and see what was going on.

There was way more visibility into the creche and how things were done and happening there.

It's a very different proposition.

Ah ok , fair enough . I hope you find a good solution and your baby settles in well

lazygal

I don't understand this petition. Everyone is in the same boat with babies and kids and child care, and paid and unpaid ml is already about 11 months. So what has been missed out on?

Sofa King Great

There is no basis for doing this at all. It is a simple populist move with no thoughts on how it would be paid for - I saw figures quoted of higher than €130m.

There is definitely room for reform of the mat leave system but this is not it.

heldel00

I fully understand the childcare issue end of things. However, some women are arguing that they were stuck in the house amd didn't get to go anywhere!
I'm sorry but that is just nonsense. Maternity leave is about bring there with your child, nurturing them, helping them develop etc.
It should not be aboit how many coffee mornings and trips to Blanch you missed out on.

Sorry if I'm being a bit harsh but that is the general impression i was getting when listening to this being discussed.

lazygal

heldel00 wrote: »

I fully understand the childcare issue end of things. However, some women are arguing that they were stuck in the house amd didn't get to go anywhere!
I'm sorry but that is just nonsense. Maternity leave is about bring there with your child, nurturing them, helping them develop etc.
It should not be aboit how many coffee mornings and trips to Blanch you missed out on.

Sorry if I'm being a bit harsh but that is the general impression i was getting when listening to this being discussed.

Yes there's definitely bang of a bit of middle class mummy privilege from some of the women quoted. It's nice to do the baby groups and coffee mornings but really, is this a reason for extra maternity leave?

shesty

It isn't really.And actually if you have more than one child and particularly if they are small, you don't get to do any of that stuff anyway.It's not really a valid argument.

bee06

I had my baby in March (already have a toddler) and to be honest it was great not to have loads of people landing in on top of us to visit! I hated that the first time around. We all got time to adjust to being a family of four by ourselves.

Now, I’d be lying if I’d said it wasn’t hard being stuck in the house with a demented 2 year old especially in the last month because these were no child friendly places in 5km. Can’t wait to do some small trips to places now we can go further.

Apparently breastfeeding rates have gone up as well because of women being “stuck” at home with no concerns about flashing the father in law.

lazygal

Pre term birth rates dropped too apparently.

Nickibaby*

More discussions taking place its looking increasingly lightly to be extended!

iamwhoiam

heldel00 wrote: »

I fully understand the childcare issue end of things. However, some women are arguing that they were stuck in the house amd didn't get to go anywhere!
I'm sorry but that is just nonsense. Maternity leave is about bring there with your child, nurturing them, helping them develop etc.
It should not be aboit how many coffee mornings and trips to Blanch you missed out on.

Sorry if I'm being a bit harsh but that is the general impression i was getting when listening to this being discussed.

Well then I will be equally harsh . There are people whose transplants were cancelled , people whose weddings were cancelled, people in care homes who had no visitors and no activities for months
People who couldn’t attend funerals or see parents , vulnerable who never left the house , jobs lost and livelihoods destroyed
Why on earth would mothers who gave birth during lockdown be any more entitled to anything than the rest of us who also suffered or lost livelihoods .
We all got on with things as best we could

lunamoon

The only argument I'd seen that bares any weight is that the babies have missed out on the PHN development checks. Otherwise I don't really understand why it should be extended. Everyone is in the same boat re childcare.

Rodin

No reason to extend it.

Just people looking to get out of work while someone else pays for them.

Toastytoes

lunamoon wrote: »

The only argument I'd seen that bares any weight is that the babies have missed out on the PHN development checks. Otherwise I don't really understand why it should be extended. Everyone is in the same boat re childcare.

My 2 year old has missed out on her development check with the phn but I’m not expecting 3 months leave to deal with it. It’s all a nonsense.

bee06

3 weeks additional parents leave is now the proposal.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/new-parents-to-get-three-extra-weeks-leave-each-due-to-challenges-faced-during-covid-19-pandemic-39364419.html

iamwhoiam

lunamoon wrote: »

The only argument I'd seen that bares any weight is that the babies have missed out on the PHN development checks. Otherwise I don't really understand why it should be extended. Everyone is in the same boat re childcare.

The 8 month olds also missed out on PHN checks . As did 2 year olds . I see no basis at all why one group get more leave when so many struggled for various reason
If anyone deserves leave its parents of kids with special needs who struggled with no schooling and no support for months

Millem

When parent’s leave was first proposed it was going to get extended every year until it reached a certain number of weeks. I can’t remember the exact details but I did start a thread on it a few months ago.

FastFullBack

bee06 wrote: »

3 weeks additional parents leave is now the proposal.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/new-parents-to-get-three-extra-weeks-leave-each-due-to-challenges-faced-during-covid-19-pandemic-39364419.html

How long does this apply until? Due baby #2 in October, it looks like this will give both me and my wife 3 extra weeks of paid leave...

Millem

FastFullBack wrote: »

How long does this apply until? Due baby #2 in October, it looks like this will give both me and my wife 3 extra weeks of paid leave...

I think the Irish times or RTÉ (can’t remember) said from the 1st November-pandemic.
I would say it’s for the foreseeable future tbh. I got a call from a HSE SALT to say my eldest will not have a face to face appointment until summer 2021!!!! So I think you will get it as things don’t seem to be changing with regard to appointments which was one of the arguments.
It isn’t going to come in until the Budget 2021 and it can be used up until the child’s second birthday as the 1st November 2019 babies would miss out.

lazygal

bee06 wrote: »

3 weeks additional parents leave is now the proposal.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/new-parents-to-get-three-extra-weeks-leave-each-due-to-challenges-faced-during-covid-19-pandemic-39364419.html

Ridiculous pandering to an already entitled bunch judging by the women who spoke publicly. Some other less vocal cohort will loose out now as the money has to come from somewhere.

jrosen

Millem wrote: »

I think the Irish times or RTÉ (can’t remember) said from the 1st November-pandemic.
I would say it’s for the foreseeable future tbh. I got a call from a HSE SALT to say my eldest will not have a face to face appointment until summer 2021!!!! So I think you will get it as things don’t seem to be changing with regard to appointments which was one of the arguments.
It isn’t going to come in until the Budget 2021 and it can be used up until the child’s second birthday as the 1st November 2019 babies would miss out.

Yes the article said from Nov 1, what I cant understand is why Nov 1. We had no confirmed cases here until when Feb?

Millem

lazygal wrote: »

Ridiculous pandering to an already entitled bunch judging by the women who spoke publicly. Some other less vocal cohort will loose out now as the money has to come from somewhere.

It’s parents’ leave not maternity leave. When 2 weeks parent’s leave was originally announced back in 2019 the Government intended to increase the benefit incrementally up to seven weeks by 2021.
It would of been on the table regardless of covid.

I am sure statistics will show that there is a low take up. No one in my work has taken or applied for the original two weeks parents’ leave as it’s not topped up (public sector).

Lizardlegz

Millem wrote: »

It’s parents’ leave not maternity leave. When 2 weeks parent’s leave was originally announced back in 2019 the Government intended to increase the benefit incrementally up to seven weeks by 2021.
It would of been on the table regardless of covid.

I am sure statistics will show that there is a low take up. No one in my work has taken or applied for the original two weeks parents’ leave as it’s not topped up (public sector).

I saw this last night and said it to my husband who said there is no way he is taking it and that he’d be “laughed out the door”. He’s in private sector on a good salary. Ffs. He said he will take 2 weeks paternity leave when baby comes and that’s it. FML

cant26

Lizardlegz wrote: »

I saw this last night and said it to my husband who said there is no way he is taking it and that he’d be “laughed out the door”. He’s in private sector on a good salary. Ffs. He said he will take 2 weeks paternity leave when baby comes and that’s it. FML

My husband is the exact same. Absolutely no way he’d take 5 weeks. Would not look good at all and I’m the long run not worth it. Pity it can’t be transferred to the mothers! I’d gladly take it!!!!

bee06

cant26 wrote: »

My husband is the exact same. Absolutely no way he’d take 5 weeks. Would not look good at all and I’m the long run not worth it. Pity it can’t be transferred to the mothers! I’d gladly take it!!!!

He doesn’t have to take the full 5 weeks though. It can be used in weekly increments.

It’s a pity some companies still have this old fashioned attitude.

My husband took 4 weeks (2 paternity, 2 parents) and he would have taken extra if he could.

In my company fathers get 6 weeks paternity and everyone takes it. Senior management and down so the culture is there to support it.

titan18

Don't have a child but I know my teammates tend to take it as extension of holidays around Christmas time, school breaks etc, which seems fine to me. Finishing a week earlier at Christmas and so on.

shesty

jrosen wrote: »

Yes the article said from Nov 1, what I cant understand is why Nov 1. We had no confirmed cases here until when Feb?

As best I can understand this might be because Nov. baby parents may have been due back to work by March if they only took the State 24 week leave (or 26, whatever it is!).
It is all very confusing, to be honest.
Personally about 3 weeks max is enough for me to have the husband at home, I prefer him to go back to work then for all our sanities!

lazygal

shesty wrote: »

As best I can understand this might be because Nov. baby parents may have been due back to work by March if they only took the State 24 week leave (or 26, whatever it is!).
It is all very confusing, to be honest.
Personally about 3 weeks max is enough for me to have the husband at home, I prefer him to go back to work then for all our sanities!

Same. I liked getting into the swing of things after a few weeks. I always got into a nice routine on maternity leave, and himself kind of got in the way of that....

Lizardlegz

lazygal wrote: »

Same. I liked getting into the swing of things after a few weeks. I always got into a nice routine on maternity leave, and himself kind of got in the way of that....

Yea I understand that. I’d just love for him to take 4 weeks as I’d have 4 under 7 and breastfeeding. It’s just between naps with the younger 2 and school pics up for the older 2 it would’ve been handy having him to do all the drop offs and pick ups for school, Montessori and than all the afterschool activities. I’m just not looking forward to having to do it all myself with a 2 week old when we are getting to grips with feeding etc. I just hate the attitude. But it’s there.

bee06

Lizardlegz wrote: »

Yea I understand that. I’d just love for him to take 4 weeks as I’d have 4 under 7 and breastfeeding. It’s just between naps with the younger 2 and school pics up for the older 2 it would’ve been handy having him to do all the drop offs and pick ups for school, Montessori and than all the afterschool activities. I’m just not looking forward to having to do it all myself with a 2 week old when we are getting to grips with feeding etc. I just hate the attitude. But it’s there.

Christ, that’s full on. I found it hard enough with 2 when my husband went back to work (and he was WFH).

Truckermal

So does the mother get 2 weeks paternity leave on top of the normal maternity leave at the moment?

Lizardlegz

bee06 wrote: »

Christ, that’s full on. I found it hard enough with 2 when my husband went back to work (and he was WFH).

Yea I know I’m just trying to figure it out! Lol lol. I think tho when it happens we will just find a way.... we always do! lol. I think I might look into getting some help for a couple hours a day tho. I’ve never had a helper/minder before so I’m thinking I like the thought of that luxury! :-)

bee06

Lizardlegz wrote: »

Yea I know I’m just trying to figure it out! Lol lol. I think tho when it happens we will just find a way.... we always do! lol. I think I might look into getting some help for a couple hours a day tho. I’ve never had a helper/minder before so I’m thinking I like the thought of that luxury! :-)

You will totally find a way even though it might be tough going for a bit! Getting someone in is a great idea. Even if you had someone to stay with the smallies while you were doing to school run (or them do the school run) so you didn’t have to buckle 4 into the car!

Edit: assuming you have a car!