Dependents of EU citizens entitled to claim social welfare benefits, High Court rules

Idbatterim

Comments closed on the journal. Is this some Irish anomaly or are the other EU states already paying out ?!

https://www.thejournal.ie/judgement-high-court-dependents-of-eu-citizens-5116986-Jun2020/

double jobbing

I'm amazed at how these people can just get free legal representation to take these civil cases.

Does this mean any EU national can now have his mother fly in to sign on for a pension?

Fred Cryton

Ridiculous. The 350 weekly welfare payment is more than the average salary in several Eastern EU States. Even the 203 dole is more than one would get in most jobs there.

Freedom of movement should be the right to work, not to welfare. Or at least a much higher bar of 10 years of paying taxes should be applied.

TheValeyard

Well, let's just change the requirements to get welfare and solve that problem.

Gatling

TheValeyard wrote: »

Well, let's just change the requirements to get welfare and solve that problem.

Which will be followed by another taxpayers funded jaunt to the courts on behalf or a another non national and there entitlement

Kermit.de.frog

Romanian national, Georgeta Voican, who has been living with her daughter, Angelica, in Ireland since 2017, had sought a judicial review of the decision of the Chief Appeals Officer, the Social Welfare Appeals Office and the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection to refuse her claim for disability allowance.

Isn't it wonderful all the same.

Gatling

Anyone remember the eastern European lady who came here and decided she was entitled to the state pension .
And the courts sided with her .

And yet taxpayers are being advised that we need to work longer along with our parents for the pensions we had to work to get , yet we have foreign nationals arrive and demand a pension despite never working a day in their life in Ireland

Meeoow

No doubt she'll be back paid for the last 3 years.

Eric Cartman

they'll all be sitting in a square in Prague, Timisoara etc.. laughing at us. Why are we determined to bankrupt this nation with our welfare bill.

Kermit.de.frog

There should be no citizen here of any other country, in the EU or not, claiming something like disability allowance.

We were told all these people would come here, work and contribute.

This is the opposite.

This is a drain on us.

cal naughton

No mention of this important High court ruling on the 9 o'clock news. Although we did get a piece about an out of work costume designer. No wonder people are losing faith in RTE.

double jobbing

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

There should be no citizen here of any other country, in the EU or not, claiming something like disability allowance.

We were told all these people would come here, work and contribute.

This is the opposite.

This is a drain on us.

The opening of the EU borders was the most suicidal move this country ever made. From the credit fueled building boom it created to the welfare bill for this nonsense.

Clarence Boddiker

cal naughton wrote: »

No mention of this important High court ruling on the 9 o'clock news. Although we did get a piece about an out of work costume designer. No wonder people are losing faith in RTE.

The real shocker is that there are people in this country that actually still have faith in RTE.

Kermit.de.frog

People coming here and now we are paying them to be disabled.

See, that's not the deal. At least it wasn't the deal as far as I've always understood it.

We need to get our act together and start standing up for this country in relation to this stuff.

Eric Cartman

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

People coming here and now we are paying them to be disabled.

See, that's not the deal. At least it wasn't the deal as far as I've always understood it.

We need to get our act together and start standing up for this country in relation to this stuff.

Media : "Ireland has the most disabled workforce in Europe"
High Court : "Lets turn that up to 11"

enricoh

And people wonder why the Brits voted for brexit!
Now that they are pulling up the drawbridge in the UK I wonder what country will benefit tourists flock to instead?!

Surely they cant claim anything without paying stamps?


This ruling,from reading of the article simply requires eu citizens to be treated equal to irish in terms of eligibilty?
(Would have assumed this was case anyway?)

Quantum Erasure

cal naughton wrote: »

No mention of this important High court ruling on the 9 o'clock news. Although we did get a piece about an out of work costume designer. No wonder people are losing faith in RTE.

also some news about a south Dublin boarding school and racism allegations, but no details.

There's only so much news you can fit into half an hour

starrygleam11

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

People coming here and now we are paying them to be disabled.

See, that's not the deal. At least it wasn't the deal as far as I've always understood it.

We need to get our act together and start standing up for this country in relation to this stuff.

Your forgeting that immigration Has being going on for a long time.

Your looking at it only from the perspective of someone coming here and getting something
( you also dont take into account how hard it is to get diasability and many who are on it worked here for years and paid there taxes)

ur forgeting that theres a 2nd wave of immigration kids who were raised here and who treat this country as their home they dont know their countries as much.

I know a Polish girl sińce we were 7 came here with family they all have degrees worked the girl got As in her studies mostly worked sińce she was 16.

Now im bringing my best friend who was suppose to be someone big in life and had everything going for her with studies work and even looks if i may add of 17 years for chemio sessions as she was dignosed with cancer at 22 so tell me how she doesnt deserve diasability ?
Shes also studying part time online too as she is a hard worker that doesnt give up on life and tried to do volunteering once a week as she is set on beating this and hoping to work full time once she fights it off

The thing about life is we are all going to Die ur focusing on welfare and immigrants yet ur forgetting all the **** our governmet is waisting our tax payer money on including the famous unused printer in the public service worth thousands.

Wont deny of course there are scammers everywhere but u shouldnt bash everyone becouse no one Plans to hear they have cancer at 22...

Gatling

starrygleam11 wrote: »

Wont deny of course there are scammers everywhere but u shouldnt bash everyone becouse no one Plans to hear they have cancer at 22...

Can never take new posters serious when it comes to sob stories

Pauliedragon

double jobbing wrote: »

The opening of the EU borders was the most suicidal move this country ever made. From the credit fueled building boom it created to the welfare bill for this nonsense.

Credit fueled building boom? Any ****ing dope who took borrowed money from the bank that they couldnt afford to pay back is a moron. No sympathy for them. When my bank offered me loans through the lettterbox I threw the letters in the bin. Us Irish are our own worst enemy sometimes when it comes to money. We're up 10's of billions from the EU even net money we're still in profit.

starrygleam11

Gatling wrote: »

Can never take new posters serious when it comes to sob stories

Sob stories ? Reality for a lot of people maybe if u took time out of ur racist hole to understand each persons situation u would seem more Smart

Gatling

starrygleam11 wrote: »

racist

I take it you don't understand or didn't learn in school what the meaning of the word is and how to use it

starrygleam11

Gatling wrote: »

I take it you don't understand or didn't learn in school what the meaning of the word is and how to use it

Say whatever u want ,you want this thread to be a full on racist rant go on.

I wont change my persepctive caz ive seen a
****load of stories and i learned one thing in life.

When bad things are happening in a country dont blame the people blame the system and its leaders.

And if your a boomer goodluck to u many of us irish youths are sick of the mindless uneducated frowning old men that complain all the time about immigrants how bout focus on yourself

Rodney Bathgate

I thought that ‘boomer’ bullsh1t had died out.

starrygleam11

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

I thought that ‘boomer’ bullsh1t had died out.

Not with the young 😂😂

Gatling

starrygleam11 wrote: »

,you want this thread to be a full on racist rant go

Say whaaaaaaaa

Rodney Bathgate

starrygleam11 wrote: »

Not with the young 😂😂

Pity.

Kermit.de.frog

enricoh wrote: »

And people wonder why the Brits voted for brexit!
Now that they are pulling up the drawbridge in the UK I wonder what country will benefit tourists flock to instead?!

If the government does not believe people in this country will ever turn on the EU I think they are seriously mistaken.

It's bad enough having whats left of our sovereignty taken from us by stealth incrementally but then we have to deal with all this on top.

There is a tipping point and they need to understand that.

And they need to start looking after the people of this country and stop doing whatever Brussels says. No other country is this subservient to what Brussels has to say on anything.

Clarence Boddiker

starrygleam11 wrote: »

Say whatever u want ,you want this thread to be a full on racist rant go on.

I wont change my persepctive caz ive seen a
****load of stories and i learned one thing in life.

When bad things are happening in a country dont blame the people blame the system and its leaders.

And if your a boomer goodluck to u many of us irish youths are sick of the mindless uneducated frowning old men that complain all the time about immigrants how bout focus on yourself

The boomers will be grand, enjoying their retirement. Its the youth that are fcuked. Ask yourself why the boomers could get mortgages in their 20's and most of todays youth never will. Ask yourself is there a connection between immigration and the fact that you'll be sharing a house with others in your 40s and paying a fortune for the luxury. Perhaps you should stop voting for the woke parties that are selling your future down the river. If you're foolish enough to vote for a party just because they wave an LGBT flag then its your own fault. You're financial future is totally utterly fcuked btw. Maybe someday you'll cop on as to why that is.

starrygleam11

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If the government does not believe people in this country will never turn on the EU I think they are seriously mistaken.

It's bad enough having whats left of our sovereignty taken from us by stealth incrementally but then we have to deal with all this on top.

There is a tipping point and they need to understand that.

And they need to start looking after the people of this country and stop doing whatever Brussels says. No other country is this subservient to what Brussels has to say on anything.

We arent slaves to brussels if IT wasnt for the eu we would still be a ****hole .
Your complaining about the EU look what a mess england is now.
Tories that dont give a flying crap about anything including its own people fecking them left and right and laughing all the way to the bank.
If ireland left the eu and we would have a right wing governmet covid deaths would be a million no doubt about that.
Employment law and rights ? Please that wouldnt exist anymore.
Look at all the right wing governments across all nations and tell me if theyre doing a good job caz it doesnt seems like it at all

starrygleam11

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

The boomers will be grand, enjoying their retirement. Its the youth that are fcuked. Ask yourself why the boomers could get mortgages in their 20's and most of todays youth never will. Ask yourself is there a connection between immigration and the fact that you'll be sharing a house with others in your 40s and paying a fortune for the luxury. Perhaps you should stop voting for the woke parties that are selling your future down the river. If you're foolish enough to vote for a party just because they wave an LGBT flag then its your own fault. You're financial future is totally utterly fcuked btw. Maybe someday you'll cop on as to why that is.

That's not only the fault of immigration.
That's the fault of politicians not implementing proper housing plans that they havent for years letting labdlords roam around free all they want.
U think if we had a right wing government this would change ?
Of course not
You always assume that when we choose right immigrants are going to go.
They wont many are residents here and this wont change.
Instead of bashing immigrants start bashing all the politicians that are profiting off what's happening now.
Like i said dont hate the people hate the leaders and the system.

double jobbing

double jobbing wrote: »

The opening of the EU borders was the most suicidal move this country ever made. From the credit fueled building boom it created to the welfare bill for this nonsense.

Absolutely. Country was a great place right until the 1970s.

The eu and it's constant flow of money into the country for nearly 2 decades was and continues to be a disgrace!

If I had my way, we would send all the foreigners home. Of course that would mean taking all the Irish back and our population would increase drastically.

On a more serious note, Ireland had been soft when it came to eu migration for years. As an Irishman that moved abroad to another eu country I can tell you it's no easy task getting a tax number and access to social welfare when your not a local. I had to price i had the money to support my family, a place to live and private health insurance to cover us all including my wife who is actually from the country I moved to.

Gatling

So the consensus is we shouldn't be giving benefits to anyone who rock up and demands we have just arrived where's the 4eva home keys and my life long benefits

TheValeyard

TheValeyard wrote: »

Well, let's just change the requirements to get welfare and solve that problem.

It's a benefit, not a welfare payment.

I realise that might seem like nitpicking but it's the reason why the case was successful.

BENEFIT is a right. Welfare is not.


Same as child benefit. There's no mean testing to qualify. B have baby, qualify. Disabled? Qualify.

ExMachina1000

starrygleam11 wrote: »

We arent slaves to brussels if IT wasnt for the eu we would still be a ****hole .
Your complaining about the EU look what a mess england is now.
Tories that dont give a flying crap about anything including its own people fecking them left and right and laughing all the way to the bank.
If ireland left the eu and we would have a right wing governmet covid deaths would be a million no doubt about that.
Employment law and rights ? Please that wouldnt exist anymore.
Look at all the right wing governments across all nations and tell me if theyre doing a good job caz it doesnt seems like it at all

Yeah Austria and Denmark as European examples are real sh1tholes

Gatling

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

It's a benefit, not a welfare payment.

I realise that might seem like nitpicking but it's the reason why the case was successful.

BENEFIT is a right. Welfare is not.

Disability allowence in this particular case not benefit and you definitely don't have to be disabled to get it ,

Kermit.de.frog

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Yeah Austria and Denmark as European examples are real sh1tholes

The changes seen in Ireland over the last 50 years would have happened anyway EU or no EU in my opinion.

Some want to say all progress in Ireland is due to the EU.

This is complete nonsense.

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

Disability allowence in this particular case not benefit and you definitely don't have to be disabled to get it ,

Every day is a school day. I could have sworn it was a benefit.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The changes seen in Ireland over the last 50 years would have happened anyway EU or no EU in my opinion.

Some want to say all progress in Ireland is due to the EU.

This is complete nonsense.

Have you any evidence to support this view?

Where, for starters would we have gotten the cash considering we were a piss poor rock in the edge of Europe since Independence

touts

I wouldn't worry about it. We're ****ed economically and the German bondholder vultures are already circling so in a year or so we won't be that appealing to Irish people never mind Romanians etc. The Reichstag will suck the likes of ourselves, Italy, Greece etc dry leaving Germany the only country attracting welfare tourists.

Gatling

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Every day is a school day. I could have sworn it was a benefit.

There's an illness benefits that needs you to have stamps to get ,
Disability allowence is a means tested allowence you don't have to have worked to get or be physically disabled either just have an illness or injury a Dr believes will last longer than 12 Months and you can still work after you get it and keep a decent amount of the payment along with medical card and the tv license and free public transport

Kermit.de.frog

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Have you any evidence to support this view?

Where, for starters would we have gotten the cash considering we were a piss poor rock in the edge of Europe since Independence

Societal change was underway in Ireland before it joined the EU.

And as for cash. 10% toward road projects does not cut it as a bribe for me.

All these things would have happened anyway.

Globalisation suits a country like Ireland just as it does Iceland or other small independent successful countries around the world.

You don't have to be in the EU to be wealthy. This is the type of brainwashing we need to eliminate - it is a lie.

Geuze

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Every day is a school day. I could have sworn it was a benefit.

DA is social assistance.

DA is not social insurance.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Societal change was underway in Ireland before it joined the EU.

And as for cash. 10% toward road projects does not cut it as a bribe for me.

All these things would have happened anyway.

Globalisation suits a country like Ireland just as it does Iceland or other small independent successful countries around the world.

You don't have to be in the EU to be wealthy. This is the type of brainwashing we need to eliminate - it is a lie.

Soooo....no, no evidence.

Ireland was on the way to being a great nation in the 70s? You obviously are too young to remember the 80s.

Ireland was a poor nation. An under developed nation prior to eu membership.

Again I ask, where was the investment coming from? How were we building the infrastructure? Have you any, any evidence to support your own personal opinion on this issue?

touts

touts wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about it. We're ****ed economically and the German bondholder vultures are already circling so in a year or so we won't be that appealing to Irish people never mind Romanians etc. The Reichstag will suck the likes of ourselves, Italy, Greece etc dry leaving Germany the only country attracting welfare tourists.

Where do you think your pension fund gets invested? Be careful when condemning the bond holders.

Geuze

mastive wrote: »

Remember this when you Vote, you are paying for this kind of BS and the politicians want to raise your retirement age to pay for it.
We are probably a few years away from a general election, so choose wisely in any local election that comes up, if you keep voting for the same political parties you are giving them the green light for this kind of policy

The problem is there isn't much choice, as most/all? reasonable parties seem to be for open-borders and benefits-for-all policies.

I don't count odd/tiny fringe groups like NPI, etc.

I am looking for a large, sensible reasonable political party, that has sensible migration policies.

FG should be this party, but it has drifted?

I would vote for a party that is close to my thinking on migration:

(1) discourage Irish emigration / encourage Irish emigrants to return
(2) EU migration welcome, we are part of the EU
(3) non-EU migration restricted to trades with severe labour shortages, and only after people on LT welfare here are helped into these jobs
(4) bogus or illegal immigration severely restricted, AS claims to be processed in ports

Kivaro

There has been a huge influx of Roma Gypies into Ireland in the last number of years. There is an obvious reason why. They are also taking a great deal of housing away from the indigenous population who badly need it; once again being paid for by the State.

The irony of the original case being brought by this Roma family to the High Court is that we (tax payers) paid the money for the NGO and their legal teams to bring it about.
We know of one ethnic group in Ireland that have a ludicrously high number of their community getting disability payments from the State.
We also know of the close support of Pavee Point of Travelers and Roma Gypies, as if they are now one distinct group.
So it should not surprise anyone that Roma Gypies are going to jump on this disability payment scheme.

This ruling will only result in an even greater influx of Roma Gypies into our already resource-stretched country.
It is the height of madness and inviting economical suicide.

F34

mastive wrote: »

Maybe its time for us to vote for odd/tiny fringe groups, Politicians go whatever way the wind is blowing, Look at Boris in the UK, anti Brexit to Pro Brexit, he saw which way the wind was blowing and changed course.
A solid 5-10% vote for the odd/tiny fringe groups would be enough to get a change of course from Irish main political parties.

I disagree a decent percentage voted for Peter Casey in the presidential election and we are told it’s just cranks voting for him.

A small percentage vote for the Greens and we are told that it’s showing climate change is top of most people’s agendas i.e we can raise taxes/create new ones under a green agenda.

Irish politicians care about one thing and that’s not the people that elect them it’s keeping their nose firmly in the trough

Cuddlesworth

To qualify for Disability Allowance (DA) you must:

Have an injury, disease or physical or mental disability that has continued, or may be expected to continue, for at least one year
As a result of this disability be substantially restricted in undertaking work that would otherwise be suitable for a person of your age, experience and qualifications
Be aged between 16 and 66. When you reach 66 years of age you no longer qualify for DA, but you are assessed for a State pension.
Satisfy a means test
Satisfy the habitual residence condition.c

Residence for longer than 3 months and less than 5 years **(5)**
An EU/EEA citizen may reside in the State for a period that is longer than 3 months if he or she:

1. is in employment or in self-employment in the State
2. has sufficient resources for himself or herself and his or her family members not to become an unreasonable burden on the social assistance system of the State, and has comprehensive sickness insurance in respect of himself or herself and his or her family members
3. is enrolled in an educational establishment accredited or financed by the State for the principal purpose of following a course of study here and has comprehensive sickness insurance in respect of himself or herself and his or her family members and has sufficient resources for himself or herself and his or her family members not to become an unreasonable burden on the social assistance system of the State
4. is a family member of a citizen satisfying one of the above conditions. More information on family members is at (4.4) below

She has been here longer then 3 months, she has a family member meeting one of the above conditions. The judge basically said its not right to say that she is a unreasonable burden on the state so she meets the guidelines. She is also means tested and is reliant on her daughter working to get the payments.

Also, is this forum some sort of yes box where you just parrot blanket statements at each other trying to drag down immigrants and the EU while ignoring the good its done us?

Fred Cryton

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Ridiculous. The 350 weekly welfare payment is more than the average salary in several Eastern EU States. Even the 203 dole is more than one would get in most jobs there.

Freedom of movement should be the right to work, not to welfare. Or at least a much higher bar of 10 years of paying taxes should be applied.

I think if you look properly you will see that €350 is very often more than the average wage paid in Ireland which goes some way in showing what employers and politicians in Ireland think of Irish workers on the lower rung, often referred to as "essential workers" during the present period in time....


As for welfare, a straw man argument. Corporate taxation and millionaires and billionaires are costing western societies far more in lost taxation revenue.....


Still, your logic makes for good headlines nonetheless.........:)