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Investing from Fermanagh vs Dublin

  • 27-05-2020 3:15pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭ Taylor365


    Fermanagh:

    £2,000 allowance on dividends
    £12,000 allowance on capital gains tax
    ISA investment vehicles:

    Stocks & Shares ISA
    Placing investments inside an ISA wrapper provides three tax advantages:

    No tax on profits. You don't have to pay any capital gains tax on profits made from share price increases.
    Invest outside an ISA and any profits made above the annual capital gains tax allowance (£12,300 for 2020/21) would be subject to tax at 10% for basic-rate taxpayers and 20% for higher-rate and additional-rate taxpayers. You make a profit when you sell a share for more than you bought it for.

    No tax on interest earned on bonds. You get to keep it all.

    No tax on dividend income. Inside an ISA, you don't pay tax on dividends. Outside an ISA, you'd get a £2,000 dividend income allowance, and above that basic-, higher- and additional-rate taxpayers would pay 7.5%, 32.5% and 38.1% respectively.



    Dublin:

    €0 allowance on dividends
    €1,270 allowance on capital gains tax
    ISA? - Nope


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 807 ✭✭✭ Jimbobjoeyman


    Zero incentive to save and build wealth through investment in the stock market in this country expecpt through pensions.

    Really should have some kind of similar ISA scheme as there is in the UK but if we tried we'd get the usual suspects complaining about it being a tax break for the rich rather than having the foresight to put down the "raise me dole" drum and seeing it as the oppertunity for the standard person it was.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,798 ✭✭✭✭ Mantis Toboggan


    Was it ever any different down here or has there been changes over the years?


    IRISHMEN AND IRISHWOMEN: "In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag and strikes for her freedom"

    Irish Proclamation



  • Registered Users Posts: 807 ✭✭✭ Jimbobjoeyman


    Was it ever any different down here or has there been changes over the years?

    Closest we've ever had would be the SSIA as far as I'm aware.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭ Taylor365


    Was it ever any different down here or has there been changes over the years?
    UK has continually changed and balanced there taxes.


    Dividend tax allowance used to be £5,000.
    CGT allowance has been steadily growing. It used to be £11,000.


    CGT allowance in Ireland hasn't moved since, i don't know, 1997?





    Back water paddies!


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,811 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Jim2007


    Taylor365 wrote: »
    Back water paddies!

    There is noting backwater about it, it is not an accident of through ignorance, it is a deliberate policy to encourage savings through property investment and pensions. And given that there seems to be no grass roots movement out there to change it, I doubt it will happen anytime soon.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,206 ✭✭✭✭ dxhound2005


    Taylor365 wrote: »
    Fermanagh:

    £2,000 allowance on dividends
    £12,000 allowance on capital gains tax
    ISA investment vehicles:

    Stocks & Shares ISA
    Placing investments inside an ISA wrapper provides three tax advantages:

    No tax on profits. You don't have to pay any capital gains tax on profits made from share price increases.
    Invest outside an ISA and any profits made above the annual capital gains tax allowance (£12,300 for 2020/21) would be subject to tax at 10% for basic-rate taxpayers and 20% for higher-rate and additional-rate taxpayers. You make a profit when you sell a share for more than you bought it for.

    No tax on interest earned on bonds. You get to keep it all.

    No tax on dividend income. Inside an ISA, you don't pay tax on dividends. Outside an ISA, you'd get a £2,000 dividend income allowance, and above that basic-, higher- and additional-rate taxpayers would pay 7.5%, 32.5% and 38.1% respectively.



    Dublin:

    €0 allowance on dividends
    €1,270 allowance on capital gains tax
    ISA? - Nope

    It seems nothing has changed since you drew this oppression of the people to our attention before.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057816594&page=4


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,798 ✭✭✭✭ Mantis Toboggan


    I take it nobody is doing anything to change the status quo?


    IRISHMEN AND IRISHWOMEN: "In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag and strikes for her freedom"

    Irish Proclamation



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭ Taylor365


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    There is noting backwater about it, it is not an accident of through ignorance, it is a deliberate policy to encourage savings through property investment and pensions. And given that there seems to be no grass roots movement out there to change it, I doubt it will happen anytime soon.
    I'd say it is ignorance.


    Any such measure would be lauded as "looking after the elite" by the masses, when it's just your standard worker trying to scrape together more income to afford a house/rent/etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,206 ✭✭✭✭ dxhound2005


    I take it nobody is doing anything to change the status quo?

    Be careful what you wish for. A house in Fermanagh worth £150,000 pays £1,235 property tax a year. In Cavan a house worth €200,000 pays €315. Even adding waste collection charges, it is a lot less in Cavan. Changing the tax status quo for shareholders to something more favourable would take money from other sectors, or add to state borrowing.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,811 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Jim2007


    Taylor365 wrote: »
    I'd say it is ignorance.


    Any such measure would be lauded as "looking after the elite" by the masses, when it's just your standard worker trying to scrape together more income to afford a house/rent/etc.

    Well it’s 25+ years ago since I practiced accounting in Ireland so my experience may well be out of date... but I did not find clients to be ignorant of the alternatives, they just preferred property. It may go back to the days of empire, but the desire to own property seems to be very strong among the English speaking Peoples.

    On the other hand here in Switzerland, it is the opposite, suggest to a client that the consider property investing and you’d probably loose the client. They consider it a form of madness - something to do when you can’t find anything else to do with your money.

    Everyone here owns a portfolio just like people in Ireland owns a house.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭ Taylor365


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    Everyone here owns a portfolio just like people in Ireland owns a house.
    I presume because it is the paddies knowledge of a tenable asset - something they can lick.


    In all seriousness, the amount of media focused around property as the be-all and end-all of Irish society is probably what drives that. The returns are lackluster on paper.

    Or maybe it is the leverage that is needed more in Ireland, as people are left so pocket-less from any other type of investment?
    heffo500 wrote: »
    Only 95 people have sign so far kinda proves Irishpeople don't like investing in shares.
    If nobody knows about it, how can it prove anything?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,246 ✭✭✭ Topgear on Dave


    Media is certainly some of it, they love property advertising cash.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭ Yellow_Fern


    Be careful what you wish for. A house in Fermanagh worth £150,000 pays £1,235 property tax a year. In Cavan a house worth €200,000 pays €315. Even adding waste collection charges, it is a lot less in Cavan. Changing the tax status quo for shareholders to something more favourable would take money from other sectors, or add to state borrowing.

    The real stupidity of Ireland taxation is seen not in capital gains but in exit tax on ETFs. The rate is far too high and it is also absurdly involved paperwork wise.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,811 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Jim2007


    Taylor365 wrote: »
    I presume because it is the paddies knowledge of a tenable asset - something they can lick.

    It's a policy, property is discouraged:
    - No mortgage relief
    - CGT on disposal of all property including primary home
    - Wealth taxes while you own it, although low
    - Imputed rent on primary home, if owned, adds an extra 10%+ to the taxable income.

    Why would you want to pump money into that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭ Kilboor


    I take it nobody is doing anything to change the status quo?

    https://extra.ie/2019/12/07/news/politics/landlord-tds-housing-homeless


    Wonder why?

    A quarter are landlords. A lot are outright socialists who are more concerned with social benefits than relaxing taxes for people trying to make it themselves. The rest are appealing to farmers.

    A good libertarian type alternative is badly needed, not full of wack jobs like Renua


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭ Taylor365


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    It's a policy, property is discouraged:
    - No mortgage relief
    - CGT on disposal of all property including primary home
    - Wealth taxes while you own it, although low
    - Imputed rent on primary home, if owned, adds an extra 10%+ to the taxable income.

    Why would you want to pump money into that?
    Because it's an asset to add to a portfolio. Not the best performing asset in Ireland, but many places see very good returns renting property. Adds diversity too. It shouldn't be seen as evil - which it is in Ireland for some archaic reason.

    Still no reason for stupidly low allowances. Our GDP per capita is nearly the highest in Europe! Near double that of UK!

    The government would probably rather give everyone €1000 instead of changing any of these allowances....


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,811 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Jim2007


    Taylor365 wrote: »
    The government would probably rather give everyone €1000 instead of changing any of these allowances....

    Contrary to what some people seem to think, governments don’t act in a vacuum. They are a reflection of those that voted for them and tend to do that which gets them elected.

    There is little motivation for brokers etc to campaign for a change, so that leaves individual investors to get organized.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭ Yellow_Fern


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    It's a policy, property is discouraged:
    - No mortgage relief
    - CGT on disposal of all property including primary home
    - Wealth taxes while you own it, although low
    - Imputed rent on primary home, if owned, adds an extra 10%+ to the taxable income.

    Why would you want to pump money into that?

    Could you post or dm more information on this? Thanks


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,811 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Jim2007


    Could you post or dm more information on this? Thanks

    In short they calculate rental income for a similar property in the area where you live and add it to your gross taxable income, minus a few adjustments.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭ Taylor365


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    Contrary to what some people seem to think, governments don’t act in a vacuum. They are a reflection of those that voted for them and tend to do that which gets them elected.
    Hence, backwater paddies! :D :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,206 ✭✭✭✭ dxhound2005


    Fermanagh might be moving closer to us, instead of the other way round. They are thinking of improving the balance of the tax burden in favour of earned income and away from profits.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tax/capital-gains/increase-capital-gains-tax-hit-three-times-many-people-government/

    More than 275,000 people paid a total of £9.5bn in CGT in 2018-19. Two fifths of the tax take came from wealthy individuals making gains of £5m or more. By contrast, some 30 million people pay income tax, which raises close to £200bn annually.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭ Taylor365


    Fermanagh might be moving closer to us, instead of the other way round. They are thinking of improving the balance of the tax burden in favour of earned income and away from profits.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tax/capital-gains/increase-capital-gains-tax-hit-three-times-many-people-government/

    More than 275,000 people paid a total of £9.5bn in CGT in 2018-19. Two fifths of the tax take came from wealthy individuals making gains of £5m or more. By contrast, some 30 million people pay income tax, which raises close to £200bn annually.
    The Stocks and Shares ISA is completely tax free.


    We are light years behind.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭ bilbot79


    Can a northern Irish person working in the south have a UK ISA?


  • Registered Users Posts: 807 ✭✭✭ Jimbobjoeyman


    bilbot79 wrote: »
    Can a northern Irish person working in the south have a UK ISA?

    Its based entirely on residency.
    So if your resident in Northern Ireland then yes.


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