Mount Oval

corks finest

The scumbags fighting again at mount oval today, ffs it's gotten mad there last year plus, was a quiet enough place gone to hell courtesy of the council letting in scum without being assessed, pity the ppl who took out mortgages and are now living near these clowns
PS received a what's app video of same

yenom

corks finest wrote: »

The scumbags fighting again at mount oval today, ffs it's gotten mad there last year plus, was a quiet enough place gone to hell courtesy of the council letting in scum without being assessed, pity the ppl who took out mortgages and are now living near these clowns
PS received a what's app video of same

Are there council estates up there now? While it could have been people from social housing, it could also have been people from private estates. I'm sure a mixture was involved.

Outkast_IRE

yenom wrote: »

Are there council estates up there now?

Towards the end of the Celtic tiger the developer had a load of houses ready , as demand for houses fell through the floor the developer in a deal with the council for development fees owed handed over large parts of the newest estates.

Now this deal was contrary to all best practice to spread out council tenants with one to two houses per estate and instead jump gave over entire areas to them . Now unfortunately we are seeing the consequence of it.

This happens every decade in a new area with huge amount of births and 15 years later youth issues . Glanmire has similar issues. In a few years it will all quieten down again as the demographic of the area levels out .

corks finest

yenom wrote: »

Are there council estates up there now? While it could have been people from social housing, it could also have been people from private estates. I'm sure a mixture was involved.

AFAIK trouble started as soon as council moved some,wrong ppl in,it's gone to hell seemingly, relation up there on a mortgage wants out

corks finest

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Towards the end of the Celtic tiger the developer had a load of houses ready , as demand for houses fell through the floor the developer in a deal with the council for development fees owed handed over large parts of the newest estates.

Now this deal was contrary to all best practice to spread out council tenants with one to two houses per estate and instead jump gave over entire areas to them . Now unfortunately we are seeing the consequence of it.

This happens every decade in a new area with huge amount of births and 15 years later youth issues . Glanmire has similar issues. In a few years it will all quieten down again as the demographic of the area levels out .

Hopefully you're right,I live in an area of Carrigaline,mixed housing,but the oldest estate ( council) never quitened , and the teens are as rough as Fu*k there, nightmare at times, then quiet, awful last week

yenom

corks finest wrote: »

AFAIK trouble started as soon as council moved some,wrong ppl in,it's gone to hell seemingly, relation up there on a mortgage wants out

That goes on everywhere in the city, in all parts. I know the people in Togher got their money back in an estate where the council took over. It was the same in Fairfield Meadows.

GY_1980

I’ve experience living in housing estates all my life. My advice to people is to never, ever consider buying a house in a housing estate if you can avoid it.

Growing up, I lived in a working class council estate. At least 95% of the people living in the estate were the most genuine, decent people you’d ever meet. Unfortunately, the other small percentage destroyed the estate. Luckily, none of my close family live there anymore.

When I bought my first house, I bought in a new development on the edge of my town. It was a lovely development. Lovely neighbours. Over time, this changed. A couple of families moved in (social and rent allowance) and within 10 years, we were having bins/cars been burned out, tires slashed, windows broken in, etc.

We sold up and got a nice place outside town.

If you can avoid a house in a housing estate (new developments), in most instances, avoid it. Whatever you do, don’t go down a mortgage for one.

corks finest

GY_1980 wrote: »

I’ve experience living in housing estates all my life. My advice to people is to never, ever consider buying a house in a housing estate if you can avoid it.

Growing up, I lived in a working class council estate. At least 95% of the people living in the estate were the most genuine, decent people you’d ever meet. Unfortunately, the other small percentage destroyed the estate. Luckily, none of my close family live there anymore.

When I bought my first house, I bought in a new development on the edge of my town. It was a lovely development. Lovely neighbours. Over time, this changed. A couple of families moved in (social and rent allowance) and within 10 years, we were having bins/cars been burned out, tires slashed, windows broken in, etc.

We sold up and got a nice place outside town.

If you can avoid a house in a housing estate (new developments), in most instances, avoid it. Whatever you do, don’t go down a mortgage for one.

Agree 100

namloc1980

GY_1980 wrote: »

I’ve experience living in housing estates all my life. My advice to people is to never, ever consider buying a house in a housing estate if you can avoid it.

Growing up, I lived in a working class council estate. At least 95% of the people living in the estate were the most genuine, decent people you’d ever meet. Unfortunately, the other small percentage destroyed the estate. Luckily, none of my close family live there anymore.

When I bought my first house, I bought in a new development on the edge of my town. It was a lovely development. Lovely neighbours. Over time, this changed. A couple of families moved in (social and rent allowance) and within 10 years, we were having bins/cars been burned out, tires slashed, windows broken in, etc.

We sold up and got a nice place outside town.

If you can avoid a house in a housing estate (new developments), in most instances, avoid it. Whatever you do, don’t go down a mortgage for one.

That's a very sweeping statement. Bought into a new and fairly large estate coming up on 20 years ago. Extremely quiet place. No trouble of the kind mentioned here. Not everywhere is a warzone.

corks finest

namloc1980 wrote: »

That's a very sweeping statement. Bought into a new and fairly large estate coming up on 20 years ago. Extremely quiet place. No trouble of the kind mentioned here. Not everywhere is a warzone.

Obviously no large council 🠠presence then,or house's taken over by the council,as any I live in one in Carrigaline and at times it's not pretty,
One evicted last year- heroin and prostitution
Another waiting for eviction
( Cluid housing)
At times it's grand but sometimes awful, noise- fighting etc,no civic pride

corks finest

namloc1980 wrote: »

That's a very sweeping statement. Bought into a new and fairly large estate coming up on 20 years ago. Extremely quiet place. No trouble of the kind mentioned here. Not everywhere is a warzone.

TBF he /she is correct

namloc1980

corks finest wrote: »

TBF he /she is correct

Nope don't think so. There can be issues in some places but as I mentioned, not everywhere is a warzone.

corks finest

namloc1980 wrote: »

Nope don't think so. There can be issues in some places but as I mentioned, not everywhere is a warzone.

Issues everywhere council houses are end of
Born raised in uam var Ave this crap would not be tolerated end of.
Live in a mixed area of social/ affordable housing and this stuff goes on and is accepted different standards
Not always mad but since Christmas we've had 2 evictions ( one waiting to be shipped out)
Cluid housing actually try and make tenants behave, cork co co and City councils don't

corks finest

namloc1980 wrote: »

Nope don't think so. There can be issues in some places but as I mentioned, not everywhere is a warzone.

Reared in uam var Ave Bishopstown,this never happened, wouldn't be at all accepted
Live in a mixed social housing area,it does happen and it's accepted as the norm

Gru

A lot of the kids involved last night were seen running into houses that cost upwards of 350k in Mount oval and Broadale (they were seen running via the woods).


these houses are rarely used for social housing, the apartment/duplex's/ apartment blocks are, blaming it all on social housing is a mistake that allows these teens to feel invincible because they are sitting at home online seeing these comments and thinking "ha they don't even know it's me" and it stops the actual parents of these teenagers thinking their kids are the problem because they aren't "social housing".


A lot of the teenagers hanging out in groups around the whole Maryborough area are known by those who know them to be the children who are home alone all day and most of the evening as both parents are out working until 7/8/9pm or out for their runs/jog's leaving the kids bored, with loads of money and nothing else to do, no rules and nobody at home to tell them no...


but yeah keep on blaming the social housing tenants good and bad when it's parenting thats the problem...

Ludo

Any parent of an older teen in the Rochestown area who isn't grilling their child over their whereabouts last night is responsible for this. In fact if you are a parent and your child was not at home during a lockdown...you are responsible for this.

mean gene

never knew there was council estates up there no wonder ive heard nothing but grief up there the last few years -these council estates are nothing but trouble in the most part single mothers ,dole heads and their off springs

yenom

Look, the real problem here is that Ireland doesn't have any real justice system.

Ludo

yenom wrote: »

Look, the real problem here is that Ireland doesn't have any real justice system.

Never as simple as that. Upbringing and parental responsibility much more important to prevent this kinda crap rather than a justice system. There is a real justice system in the States and this doesn't prevent this crap there either. It is a societal issue rather than a justice issue.

aratsarse101

There are no consequences for these guys. No consequences for the guy that burnt down the shop in Mount Hovel and the dogs on the street knew he was. No consequences for the guys that burnt down the beautiful old house at Vernon Mount and again the dogs on the street knew who they were.
A lot of the guys in the video are in fee paying schools in the city.

corks finest

Ludo wrote: »

Never as simple as that. Upbringing and parental responsibility much more important to prevent this kinda crap rather than a justice system. There is a real justice system in the States and this doesn't prevent this crap there either. It is a societal issue rather than a justice issue.

Yep

corks finest

mean gene wrote: »

never knew there was council estates up there no wonder ive heard nothing but grief up there the last few years -these council estates are nothing but trouble in the most part single mothers ,dole heads and their off springs

Not all though I live in one,some are normal,pay taxes,don't cause hassle,but a huge percent of those living nearby don't give a feck,
Majority of ppl who get houses for free so t relaise how lucky they are

wavert

There isn't council estates up there. It has nothing to do with council estates.

This was a group of teenagers, some from the area, others not. Majority from middle class families living in 300k+ house.

No one to blame here but parents. We are supposed to be in the middle of a lockdown. These teenagers certainly were not practicing social distancing!

I'd also question where the guards were. They shouldn't have to be dealing with this (parents should have their children under control) but there were multiple phonecalls to inform them of the gathering and lack of social distancing. Even after the fight broke out they didn't show up for 20 minutes.

I've heard from multiple schools that these organised fights are a thing. And mainly from the "posh" schools. Alot has changed since my day.

Cork Lass

mean gene wrote: »

never knew there was council estates up there no wonder ive heard nothing but grief up there the last few years -these council estates are nothing but trouble in the most part single mothers ,dole heads and their off springs

I’ve lived in Rochestown for a very long time - well before Mount Oval was built and before there were any council houses. Council houses are not the problem here as far as I can see. People converge in the area outside the shop In Mount Oval and they are coming from everywhere, not just Rochestown. Believe it or not some parents are still dropping kids to Mount Oval to hang out and I say this because I’ve seen it. Another problem is the teenage drinking that goes on in Garryduff woods and again this is by teens from all over. Before people go blaming the tenants in council houses think on and cast an eye in the direction of the parents, private house owners as well as council tenants, who don’t know or care what their teenagers are getting up to. If parents controlled their own kids we’d have a lot less of this type of behaviour.

GY_1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

That's a very sweeping statement. Bought into a new and fairly large estate coming up on 20 years ago. Extremely quiet place. No trouble of the kind mentioned here. Not everywhere is a warzone.

I’m sure there will be places where issues don’t arise. My experiences were awful. Based on those, I’d advise anyone to avoid buying in a housing estate, especially new developments (where reputation can’t be gaged), if it’s possible. In 10-15 years, it’s possible the place will be a kip. You will regret it and it will make your life and your family’s lives a complete misery if it happens.

Level 42

corks finest wrote: »

Not all though I live in one,some are normal,pay taxes,don't cause hassle,but a huge percent of those living nearby don't give a feck,
Majority of ppl who get houses for free so t relaise how lucky they are

agree some lovely people in council estates

Doctors room ghost

For a small country Ireland produces some of the finest pond rats known to mankind.
Pedigree,self entitled pond rats wits a constant want on them.

Ludo

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

For a small country Ireland produces some of the finest pond rats known to mankind.
Pedigree,self entitled pond rats wits a constant want on them.

Sothe same as every other country then :rolleyes:

Doctors room ghost

Ludo wrote: »

Sothe same as every other country then :rolleyes:

Yes but throw in a generous welfare system and gps who pretty much offer addicts a chemical menu on a medical card system, and stand back and watch said pond rat population thrive.

Cork Trucker

The housing estate where I live is 75/25 private/social housing, over 100 houses in the estate, a small pocket of tenants (2-3) clash the odd time, but it’s otherwise quiet, the biggest issue is some home owners thinking they have power over council tenants and if they don’t like what they see, washing cars for example, they are reported to city hall, yet if a home owner did it there’s no issue. Long story short there is a vendetta against council tenants due to a very small minority giving others a label/bad name.

UrbanFret

The baseball bat, the balaclava and a nice drive down the wood was a good deterrent, whether you agreed or not it was certainly effective.

corks finest

Cork Trucker wrote: »

The housing estate where I live is 75/25 private/social housing, over 100 houses in the estate, a small pocket of tenants (2-3) clash the odd time, but it’s otherwise quiet, the biggest issue is some home owners thinking they have power over council tenants and if they don’t like what they see, washing cars for example, they are reported to city hall, yet if a home owner did it there’s no issue. Long story short there is a vendetta against council tenants due to a very small minority giving others a label/bad name.

Thats not good , never heard the like,,,

Cork Trucker

corks finest wrote: »

Thats not good , never heard the like,,,

Only for I want to retain my anonymity I’d give out the details and say come on down and see for yourself. The guy doing it most is a stuck up banker. I’m a council tenant myself and they have been to my door more than once over it, I can’t even wash my backyard in peace but I’m not alone. It’s like big brother here with cameras everywhere

hopalongcass

UrbanFret wrote: »

The baseball bat, the balaclava and a nice drive down the wood was a good deterrent, whether you agreed or not it was certainly effective.

Spose we should hand power over to the RA then let them deal with.God help you when you cross one of their darling sons,the balaclava guys will be coming for you,doesn't work either.

If people only knew how these social problems are contrived they would change their tune about a lot of things.Tusla are actively and intentionally separating fathers from their kids.If someone addressed what Tusla were up to the whole country would be a lot better for all of us.The child protection agency is literally doing the opposite of what its meant to be doing.

GY_1980

Cork Trucker wrote: »

The housing estate where I live is 75/25 private/social housing, over 100 houses in the estate, a small pocket of tenants (2-3) clash the odd time, but it’s otherwise quiet, the biggest issue is some home owners thinking they have power over council tenants and if they don’t like what they see, washing cars for example, they are reported to city hall, yet if a home owner did it there’s no issue. Long story short there is a vendetta against council tenants due to a very small minority giving others a label/bad name.

Sounds a lot like the place I lived. At first, it was just a couple of families. Over time, this grew to about 8-10 families. Once children were older in secondary school, friends from other estates started hanging around, drinking etc.

Tension grew in the estate. People who complained were targeted with burned out cars and broken windows. On one occasion, this scum ran through the estate one night and started lighting fires to wheelie bins. I remember getting up that night, going outside, and looking up the estate. It was like war zone.

I hope you can avoid that type of future.

By the way, we also had the stuck up people. Not ideal. But they are not going to set your car on fire.

UrbanFret

hopalongcass wrote: »

Spose we should hand power over to the RA then let them deal with.God help you when you cross one of their darling sons,the balaclava guys will be coming for you,doesn't work either.

If people only knew how these social problems are contrived they would change their tune about a lot of things.Tusla are actively and intentionally separating fathers from their kids.If someone addressed what Tusla were up to the whole country would be a lot better for all of us.The child protection agency is literally doing the opposite of what its meant to be doing.

Worked fine around this part of the world. The justice system in this country is a joke. Same scumbags are ever present in the courts yet never get punished for it.

hopalongcass

UrbanFret wrote: »

Worked fine around this part of the world. The justice system in this country is a joke. Same scumbags are ever present in the courts yet never get punished for it.

You won't get any disagreement from me on the Justice system in this country,it's an absolute shambles and most people don't realise just how bad it is.

The more convictions you have the lighter the sentence,come in with no convictions and expect to have the book thrown at you.I don't know the answer to it,but expect it to get a lot worse when the bill arrives for this pandemic farce.Country is not gonna be livable in a few months.

DellyBelly

Must say I'd noticed mount oval was going downhill over the last few 12-18 months. Seems to be an awful lot of council estate types in the area these days. I'm not sure what has happened to the area but it will be tough to turn it around. Hopefully this incident might be th turning point to bring the area back up...somehow I doubt it..

Outkast_IRE

Half the issue is the lack of Gardai. Look at the geographic area the Togher area is expected to cover, it's crazy with just a few squad cars.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Half the issue is the lack of Gardai. Look at the geographic area the Togher area is expected to cover, it's crazy with just a few squad cars.

Douglas Garda Station closed the majority of the time too. I've also noticed recently how unreliable calls to the local station or Togher can be. Many times the phone just rings out.

Outkast_IRE

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Douglas Garda Station closed the majority of the time too. I've also noticed recently how unreliable calls to the local station or Togher can be. Many times the phone just rings out.

The only evening / night stations are Togher covering as far as I know ballincollig to carrigaline, Mayfield covering all Northside and out to Glanmire, little Island and glounthane , anglesea at covering centre .

With the best will in the world the lack of local stations at night means alot of pressure put on Togher , Mayfield and Anglesea at night.

corks finest

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

The only evening / night stations are Togher covering as far as I know ballincollig to carrigaline, Mayfield covering all Northside and out to Glanmire, little Island and glounthane , anglesea at covering centre .

With the best will in the world the lack of local stations at night means alot of pressure put on Togher , Mayfield and Anglesea at night.

This government need to ****ing man up and open the bloody Garda stations,this shilly shally crap of opening a few hours a day isn't bloody on

Glory83

I saw there were a few houses up for sale there 300K+ in Clonlea Mount Oval. Was there yesterday and saw a gang of around 10 teens hanging out. Shall I look somewhere else. Appreciate your input

LuasSimon

Glory83 wrote: »

I saw there were a few houses up for sale there 300K+ in Clonlea Mount Oval. Was there yesterday and saw a gang of around 10 teens hanging out. Shall I look somewhere else. Appreciate your input

Reading this thread what do think ?
Run a mile while you can

Outkast_IRE

To be honest outside of the current issues , which I hope the Gardai and parents take seriously . If I had 300k+ to spend on a house I would prefer to be somewhere either more central in the city or more remote.

Mount Oval and the whole area to me feel like a never ending estate where you are miles from Douglas , but the houses are sold on the premise you are just up the road. The reality is you need to get in the car to get anywhere or do anything.

That's just my opinion , I am sure there are plenty who are perfectly happy up there.

mcko

When my kids were younger we used to go to play grounds all over the city, I stopped going to the one in Douglas as it was full of middle class teen agers always looking for trouble, it was the only place I nearly thumped a teenager, scum bags.

lawrencesummers

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

To be honest outside of the current issues , which I hope the Gardai and parents take seriously . If I had 300k+ to spend on a house I would prefer to be somewhere either more central in the city or more remote.

Mount Oval and the whole area to me feel like a never ending estate where you are miles from Douglas , but the houses are sold on the premise you are just up the road. The reality is you need to get in the car to get anywhere or do anything.

That's just my opinion , I am sure there are plenty who are perfectly happy up there.

There is a pub, shop, gym, restaurant, hairdresser just where the fighting was happening, it’s an over priced part of the suburbs, with terrible traffic and some of the snobbiest people alive. I wouldn’t live there but it does have facilities.

As much as people are making this a geographic, societal, legislative, socioeconomic problem you are missing the simple truth.

Boys that are around their mid late teens fight. It’s been happening since the dawn of time and won’t stop because people suddenly are being outraged on the internet.

Hormones, boredom, masculinity whatever contributes to it I’m no psychologist but boys/ teenagers / young men have varying levels of aggression that spill over. Maybe it’s exacerbated in the current times because the usual outlets of sport don’t exist but it’s always been happening.

Nobody was hurt significantly, nobody in hospital. No big deal.

Cork Trucker

mcko wrote: »

When my kids were younger we used to go to play grounds all over the city, I stopped going to the one in Douglas as it was full of middle class teen agers always looking for trouble, it was the only place I nearly thumped a teenager, scum bags.

If you do that now it will cost you both criminally and financially sadly. The younger generation are driven by the compo culture.

Cork Trucker

GY_1980 wrote: »

Sounds a lot like the place I lived. At first, it was just a couple of families. Over time, this grew to about 8-10 families. Once children were older in secondary school, friends from other estates started hanging around, drinking etc.

Tension grew in the estate. People who complained were targeted with burned out cars and broken windows. On one occasion, this scum ran through the estate one night and started lighting fires to wheelie bins. I remember getting up that night, going outside, and looking up the estate. It was like war zone.

I hope you can avoid that type of future.

By the way, we also had the stuck up people. Not ideal. But they are not going to set your car on fire.

There's no drinking around here, not that i've noticed anyway, but most of the kids/teens congregating are from other estates.

As for the tension in the estate, that was also mirrors here, but once 2 tenants left that was more or less the end of it, the illegal dumping remains however.

The thing with stuck up people around here is, yes they won't burn your car, but the slightest thing and they will go to City Hall or the community guard, i've lost count of the amount of times that one person has tried to provoke a reaction, as if i do i can be evicted, home owners can't. Now in saying that i don't like it here but it is what it is and i just have to deal with it. My work brought me into mount oval and the wider geographical area around it for a few years in the last decade, i would have said at the time i'd gladly live there, now though i'm not so sure. Is Foxwood still quiet?

lawrencesummers

Cork Trucker wrote: »

If you do that now it will cost you both criminally and financially sadly. The younger generation are driven by the compo culture.

And it should cost you, a mature adult punching someone half their age and half their size is not right. The adult is the mature one, you should know to walk away long before it’s needed.

Treehelpplease

I live near Maryborough Hill/Clarke's Hill and I'm there quite often on my runs so I know the area very well

There are some extremely nice parts of that area of the city and I'll explain why I think some are nice and some aren't. Firstly, the nice. Parks like Lissadell, Broadale, Landsborough and Foxwood feel exactly like that - a park. Other than the school in Foxwood and the shopping area in Broadale which is at the very front of the park, the only reason anyone ever has to go into any of these parks is if you live there. They're all extremely well maintained, nice and busy with just people who live in the park using the green areas, a mix of older people, grown families and young families, etc. The only one that feels like open to non residents is Broadale because of the shop, doctor, pharmacy, dentist, barbers and hairdressers. But again, it's right at the entrance so non residents using it don't really enter the park. In all my years living here I have never seen any hassle in any of these parks. Broadale had some for a very short while (and not even hassle, more of an escape route) because of people using the wooded area to get out of Mount Oval, however that has been completely blocked off and impassable for a few years now (funnily enough, on the Mount Oval side)

Mount Oval is the opposite. It's made to feel like a destination. Mount Oval village. Rather than just an extension of Maryborough/Garryduff/Moneygourney like the rest of that area of the city, it's supposed to feel like it's own area. It's also huge. You really don't realise how big it is until you walk around it. There are all types of houses in it. Big houses at the front that look like they could cost millions, ordinary detached and semi detached houses, terraced houses, duplexes, apartments. People of all ages and all different types of families. There are only two ways in and out, both far away from the central core of the park and almost hidden. While the other parks I mentioned feel close enough to walk between while being distinct, Mount Oval feels miles away from anything else in the area. Unlike Broadale, the main shopping area is in the very centre of the park. You have to pass through half of the park just to get to it. Rather than being just the buildings and some parking like Broadale, it is again made to feel like a destination - seating around a central clock tower, a large amount of parking, etc. There are also a lot of little service laneways that people can easily use to hide. Therefore, it attracts people, and because of the shop, often young people. While the other parks in the area listed (plus many more like Thornburry, Monswood, Upper Kensington, Mount Ovel, etc) feel like residential areas, this feels like a mix of residential and commercial. People from all over the south east of the city come here to gather

I'm not sure why the area attracts teens like the ones the other night. I have noticed this over the last few months too when I'm running or walking. I have two theories. One, as mentioned, is the shop and commercial area. It's so large that there are loads of places to hide and reason to hang out here. It's attractive right off the bat. Second of all, it's right by Garryduff Woods. I love this area during the day, especially in summer. It's beautiful and heavily used. At night, I wouldn't step foot in it. It's probably one of the only wooded areas of the city that isn't in the middle of nowhere or the greenbelt. It's extremely hidden from houses with no lighting and attracts young people drinking, smoking or whatever else they want to do. When they come out, they don't want to go to Foxwood or Broadale or Foxwarren - why would they, it's just houses, trees, etc. Mount Oval on the other hand, that becomes very attractive. Also, easily access from the Line for people from Mahon and Blackrock while not being as far up the hill as the other parks

I think if something is to be done apart this park, it has to be the entrance situation and the commercial area. The park is way too big to be something like Landsborough or Broadale, and so it needs to become more permeable like Maryborough Woods, another large park in the area. It has the 216 bus run through it so while it only has two entrances too, they feel more like a main road (like Maryborough Estate) and so there is constant surveillance and activity. I believe Mount Oval residents objected to the 216 going through their park? I think if it was to run through the park from Dewberry to Clarke's Wood and back onto the hill, that would help a lot with making the park feel more alive and less like a hiding spot for teens. As for the commercial area, close off the laneways and service alleys. Make it harder to sneak into and run out of, as well as hide in the dark corners. Remove the seating around the clock tower and make it feel more like a stop off point like Broadale rather than somewhere to go to to sit down

Sorry for the long post, I'd like to hear what the rest of you think of this analysis. I tried to make it more in depth and use my knowledge of the area rather than just saying "too many posh and social housing people!!"